On "crossing the abyss"

[FireBorn]

I'm stuck somewhere at the intersection of the areas or in the Da'at field.
They showed me roughly what it looks like, that is, it is connected to the ancient earth. At dawn, the ancient times of the earth were given, and the spirit that watched over the earth at that time
What they showed was like Ancient Tiamat Or ki - the Region, and it was in some kind of dark, secret abode. But be careful with this. Because it could somehow cause a local earthquake.
First, one must meditate for a long time on the ancient land, as it was called, the most ancient one was called.
Then you also need to receive a blessing from above for this practice. If the blessing was given, we feel warmth in the heart and pressure on the head from above by some force...

I want to be clear on something, because your response didn’t actually answer the question I asked: Did you personally cross the Abyss of Da'at?

If yes, then I would really value hearing what that was like for you, in your words, your experience, without the layers of symbolic interpretation. It looks like the answer is no.

Because I’m seeing a trend in this thread that’s worth calling out, people responding to direct questions about experience with philosophy or imagery. And while those things can be beautiful or useful in other contexts, they’re not what OP asked for. He asked about lived, real-world, soul-level experience, not theories, not tools, not stories.

So I’m not trying to be combative here, I just want to make sure this thread stays rooted in what actually happened to people. Not what could happen. Not what we imagine. Not what might resemble it. But the thing itself.

If you’ve crossed, I’m listening. If you haven’t, no harm in that. Just be real. That’s all I’m asking.

 

[MacLu69]

Ask him neon_trapezoid, he was the one who created this topic.
You cannot say that you have crossed the abyss, for as long as a person lives, he crosses this abyss. If a person does not live - Then can we say that he He passed through this abyss, and then disappeared somewhere...
As long as the earth spins, as long as the earth flies, this is the sphere on which we all live We, and all of us, collectively, amicably cross this abyss...

 

[IllusiveOwl]

He asked about lived, real-world, soul-level experience

I had a thought, but figured I may as well just clarify.

The experience was desired for but no real comprehension or expectation was there, I had set up my ritual chamber draped in matte black with a single candle, and had meditated before my altar in search of the great cosmic dragon, I had done this a few times before to no success. But the heart wants what the heart wants, baby.

Rather than having a cool and dramatic storyboard worthy experience, like looking into the eyes of a literal dragon floating in the void behind reality to gain Merlin's word of power, it was like someone had suddenly turned the stage lights on and gave the whole production away, with all its cardboard trees and dead secrets. This illuminated myself as well, you said it was like dropping your masks on the floor like so much spaghetti, it was a sudden and dreadful "Oh..." type of realization for me. If there had been anyone to scream, I probably would have, never been the crying type though. The secret was out and the power I actually possess as a cosmic actor made itself evident.

This wasn't a temporary enlightenment either, it's remembered and accounted for in each of my interactions, perspectives, and silly worthless little choices.

As long as the earth spins, as long as the earth flies, this is the sphere on which we all live We, and all of us, collectively, amicably cross this abyss...

You don't understand the topic of discussion.

 

[MacLu69]

It came to my mind, I immediately remembered 10 types of abyss

1 This is Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Where they passed over the bridge, a pack of crocodiles was waiting in the abyss below.

2 is the movie Indiana Jones and the Crusade. Where they overcame trials in order to obtain the Holy Grail. And there was a bridge across eternity.

3 The third example is from the movie Stargate, where people were sent to an unknown destination, with no way to return. That is, there was a risk. For the first Stargate team, that is, flying over the cosmic abyss.

4 example of the abyss is from the movie The Golden Child with Eddie Murphy and John Woo.
The moment when he had to pass the test - in some fabulous secret place, passing through columns that were held by something unknown and seemed to hang in the air, with nothing underneath them and no bottom. He had to overcome these tests and take the There was a magic knife.

5 image of the abyss is from the ocean depths filmed by Cameron and is called the abyss.

6 In my opinion, in the movie. Adapted from the comics - Spawn - the creature. With Father Emil Estevez Charlie Sheena.. - Martina Sheena.
There was a lot of computer graphics, superb, and there was a scene about the abyss.

7 Also, I think in Star Wars, in one of the parts there was a scene of crossing the abyss

8 I remembered the movie about the Langoliers, the shining on the of the Mojave Desert, the plane enther into this abyss, appeared 15 minutes ago in time, the Time Radar in the abyss moved it to another shining on the other end of the Continuum.

9 Also in the film, the golden sphere, in my opinion, the sphere in the film was an abyss.

10 And of course the abyss in dreams and the state of slumber...

Post automatically merged: Nov 30, 2025

 

[IllusiveOwl]

10 types of abyss

None of these are what we're talking about. Fiction is also a poor crafted reflection, a simulation of reality made to point the way for those too sleepy to have cognitive function strong enough to apprehend the world around them.

 

[Kepler]

I'm thinking of this in Crowleyan/OTO terms, where to reach a certain point of the path of knowledge/initiation/growth/development, it is necessary to "cross the abyss". It has been described as a melting of personality into the "All", but I'm curious what that really looks like physically/mentally for a person.

In Crowleyan terms of progressive initiation there are insights gained into the Abyss through interactions with it during earlier stages of initiation. Significantly in the Second Order when making contact with the Third.

Before getting to that however, in One Star In Sight it's the Initiate's momentum described as pushing them into the Abyss. It was this warning that convinced me to take as long as possible to advance through earlier initiatory Grades after Neophyte and The Vision of the Holy Guardian Angel. Partly also to be familiar with that force that's pushing.

That initial bearing and with developing my own revisable Xabalistic map from my experiences following 777 advice also helped immensely with the initiatory transition decades later from Major Adept to the tasks of Exempt Adept. Providing a tested fleshed out framework to form a new personalized comprehensive and coherent school of thought once set to the Task in prep for the Abyss.
Accurately creating a school of thought that includes the Abyss requires being informed on conditions beyond the Abyss before having gone through it. At least before going through it in one's current incarnation. Translating a book from a past life appears to limit the initiate to the model the text was written under. That human understanding of the universe has gone far beyond the Crystal Sphere of Saturn really makes the old philosophies of wisdom and their metaphysics contextualized with "All" and the Realm of Ideal Forms to explain and recreate Experience obsolete. In view of this the thought of translating one of my past life books was unacceptable for enlightened progression with momentum aligned to a current understanding of the celestial for safely Crossing the Abyss. Which experiments with the new understanding of the universe may reveal to be something else than previously considered.

To one of the OP questions, in my experience, the closest individual psychological analogy to Crossing the Abyss would be the Blending and Unblending of Parts in Internal Family Systems. This type of psychological work will likely be considered preparatory in my school of thought for Crossing the Abyss. It mirrors a concept of the Abyss where the parts of what could be considered the universal mind that incarnate a soul are unblended in a similar way on a much larger scale that changes the world.

Interesting co-incidence to be inspired to post about this on the day of Aleister Crowley's Greater Feast. To the Beast!

 

[Faria]

For those of you who have had the experience of crossing the abyss, how did that experience manifest for you?

I'm thinking of this in Crowleyan/OTO terms, where to reach a certain point of the path of knowledge/initiation/growth/development, it is necessary to "cross the abyss". It has been described as a melting of personality into the "All", but I'm curious what that really looks like physically/mentally for a person.

My personal interpretation is that the Abyss is death, and that you do not cross it and remain alive. Those who appear in the world as Master of the Temple are assumed to be reincarnations of those who have achieved that status. That is my personal interpretation.

I have not ever met someone for whom "Crossing the Abyss" means something other than "Went Broke" or "Embraced Being Poor." I have never seen anyone give up anything substantial as part of this grade, nor anyone who was able to maintain a stable group of disciples following their achievement.

Also just my personal take, but anyone who tells you a title or number of their grade as a magician, whether they are in a formal group or not, is full of shit.

 

[deci belle]

I have crossed the Abyss, but not within the framework you are asking about. I am watching this thread as I am very curious about others experiences. Hopefully a few will chime in and share.

Glad you spilled the beans, FireBorn. Nice. Passing through critical junctures is analogous in terms of insight into situational evolution, either by seeing its potential or else by one's bondage to its karmic momentum, whereby even though the inevitable is clearly apparent, still, it s fully within the throws of the situational turn's aftermath that the real crucible, in terms of one's effective resolve, is proven. It is the aftermath of any critical juncture that proves one's mettle. As you said, experiencing or passing through the void was the easy part.

I am not a Thelemite and I do not practice in the Æon of Horus under Crowley, but from my own experience there was a pointed moment of sober direct existential contact that did permanently change me, which matches the solemn experience Crowley talks about, and the reverence he holds in "those who understand.".

It was harrowing and I see the world still through the knowledge gained by the experience. It's not possible to emphasize the truth or importance of this realization enough, how liberating and obliterating it is when ultimate truth is understood in the very core of your being. I can see how integrating this perspective when you're not rigorously conditioned through some esoteric system or ready for it could lead to tragedy for the individual and those around them. I'm not sure if I should share it, but who gives a fuck.

Spoiler: Secret

It was a coming into contact with the expanse of nothingness that comprises all levels of existence. Nothing is born, nothing dies. Nothing has a name, nothing is. There is no point, no goal, no finish line, no failure or success. Something cannot exist within nothing. There are no humans, no gods, no art, no practice, no souls, no All, only nothing, forever, infinitely, always. There is no story, you haven't lived a life, and there is no one in your head listening to the thoughts that no one is saying. Given you reading this are the center, this most importantly applies directly to you, you are nothing.

I believe the absolute existential unyielding comprehension of this truth is why it's called "Crossing The Abyss", it's a nice phrase for the experience, because miraculously something does come through the other side. Of course there's a difference between reading about it and undergoing the initiation with your neck on the block

Just as well. Descriptions are a touchstone for the period following return. It is such a help to the hopefully integral assimilation of the nonoriginated into what is left of our "personal" identity to be able to look back on the long path that, having led to and through and then continuing on, there can be glimpses of the visage of prior illuminates ahead of us on the gradual incline, as well. We all share a purity of absence of nothing whatsoever, whereby true void has no existence of voidness, albeit perpetually on the verge of going into action, without ever falling into the Creative.

Faria:

My personal interpretation is that the Abyss is death, and that you do not cross it and remain alive. Those who appear in the world as Master of the Temple are assumed to be reincarnations of those who have achieved that status. That is my personal interpretation.

As someone pointed out above, in terms of nonorigination, clearly, there is no death. Why? The Unborn cannot die. Nonpsychological awareness is itself the living potential. One tradition calls this real knowledge, or lead in alchemic terms. After using lead, one must then get rid of lead. Seeing this, in the most abstract terms, is basically seeing seeing. There is no person, and such a one acting in terms of real knowledge has no basis in fact. What this means is that the inconceivable is power for those who see its potential. This is the basis of my interest in wizardry. Sudden illumination is called (in one tradition) the absolute. So the void, as it were, is an extreme. It's true, but it does not exist in terms of the person. As for temporal "existence" this is also an extreme, that doesn't exist in terms of enlightening potential. Clinging to either extreme is delusion, because both cancel each other out (in philosophical terms if one wants to go there— I don't).

Suchness, or Complete Reality are both esoteric terms used to denote operational effectiveness with nonpsychological potential by virtue of the Creative's inherent nonoriginated essence. What's wonderful is that reality and delusion aren't different because the light is one. Ordinary people see and operate within the sphere of karmic energy (created), and adepts operate potential (nonoriginated) by virtue of karmic energy.

Crossing the void is ok, really! But potential is already your own mind right now, because awareness is already unified. Clinging to psychological habit-consciousness obscures this. It is possible to see potential without "crossing the void," simply because transcendent wisdom is naturally intact by virtue of our everyday ordinary awareness' essence. Eventually, whether before or after, conditions meet and we do "drop off."

Nevertheless, the universal signpost posited by authentic void experience is enough to set anyone(?) straight— at least momentarily. The key is to set to work at once, in the aftermath of such insight, to clarify and stabilize (prove) the knowledge in order to integrate its selfless wonder into our conscious being enough to gradually introduce its guidance and discipline thereby to accomplish the restoration of the proper relationship of ego in service of enlightening potential. It is in this way that both enlightening potential AND ego are preserved unharmed.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

Just as well. Descriptions are a touchstone for the period following return. It is such a help to the hopefully integral assimilation of the nonoriginated into what is left of our "personal" identity to be able to look back on the long path that, having led to and through and then continuing on, there can be glimpses of the visage of prior illuminates ahead of us on the gradual incline, as well. We all share a purity of absence of nothing whatsoever, whereby true void has no existence of voidness, albeit perpetually on the verge of going into action, without ever falling into the Creative.

You speak with authority. What of your own experience "Crossing the Abyss"?

 

[deci belle]

hahahahha …the thing I noticed about this forum that prompted me to register is that users seem to have a general, and even pronounced degree of experience, authentic and personal, that opens a tenor of humility that I recognized at once.

I suppose it's only fair that you should ask of my experience in this regard, mon owl, and certainly such would be perfectly on topic, as well.

When I re-read my old posts from years past (as far as 2008) when I first decided to write about the application of real knowledge, I am pleased that I can't say it any better now than when I started. Of course, even though such authority is in evidence for those whose resonance by orders of harmonic degree are apparent, in terms of "it takes one to know one", just proves that the open secret is essentially talismanic, and so the varied and ancient teaching traditions keeping the knowledge alive are one by virtue of their direct pointing to the source of which we can never know.

There is always that which is beyond our current horizon. Looking back is all we can hope to know. Even experiencing the sudden once, and only once, is a return, a re-experiencing, a restoration of potential's power in terms of nonoriginated enlightening selfless presence.

The one (quasi-buddhist, I say) illuminate that actually uses the visionary experience of Return as a teaching framework of sorts is the unique record of Padmasambhava, who is believed to have originated in the Levant, making his way to present-day Tibet about 1200 years ago. I only introduce that fact to illustrate that such categorical application of mystical experience might even be used empirically to establish a teaching that somehow was accepted into the pantheon of buddhism. That's not a recommendation at all. Just saying that there can be a significant liturgy built around a description of such proportions relative to mystical revelation, indicative of the power of Padmasambhava's personality.

That his revelatory device built around the image of a vortex (known in taoism as the Tai Chi), is unique in its presentation as well as having been used to form a basis of teaching symbolism beyond mere morphological yin/yang dialectics.

My experience of the vortex was the last act of a multi-scene revolving stage production of cosmic proportions, involving an initial eye-popping sensation of every pass and channel comprising the full length of my body opening and rushing forth in unison up to my third eye and shooting off at tremendous velocity as a single ray into another realm, leaving behind whoever I might have been. I had been lying in bed just minding my own breaths alternate through rise and fall one night before falling asleep. My first orgasm was a pale rendition (not that I wasn't amazed then--even a slight bit concerned, at the time) heeheehee!!

Too bad I'm so new on the forum that I can't receive PMs yet. I'd be willing to go on, but, I've heard this story before …hahahhaaa~~ please PM in a month or two when I garner enough posts to earn my wings on this forum, and I'll divulge the details, ok, mr Illusive Owl?

 

[unlight]

My perspective on crossing the abyss is, first, that a certain illusion is indeed stripped away, and is replaced by a knowing. However, regarding differing views on self or non-self, as far as I understand, the new perspective gained after the VISION can be one and the same. That is, the VISION at this stage can manifest in many forms, yet it does not affect the outcome. my personal visions closely resembles the description in The Book of the Law: nuit—Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof. As for the body, energy, and darkness, they become more acute. In the long run, this is a cycle or transformation—meaning consciousness opens, but the body still requires transformation.The descriptions still feel off.

 

[sahgwa]

Thanks @Morell , helpful to get the live perspective.

Post automatically merged: Nov 27, 2025

@FireBorn I'm curious about the way you understand the process if you are willing to share

Post automatically merged: Nov 27, 2025

@sahgwa thanks for the insight. Sometimes I do notice that feeling of being 'wrong to be disharmonious', and I've wondered what that stems from in myself. As in, sometimes the draw towards harmony feels innate, but I question whether it is innate in me or a result of religious conditioning. Interesting to hear this from you.

That goes to a deeper question about perhaps the innate 'goodness' of the human soul, which is tainted perhaps through behaviour, karma, previous lifetimes etc.
I mean, we all know it's good to nurture life and evil to kill it.
I heard someone say that true evil is a denial of the right to thrive.
It's above likes and dislikes, and petty judgements.
But people often accrue or accrete a coating of ego and also nasty energy which dulls this natural urge. maybe.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

For me, "crossing the abyss" was something I found out about in retrospect. I can't pinpoint it to a certain point, it was basically where I "got it". Maybe because my outlook on life was pretty magic compatible to start with or something. I can remember a time when I "didn't get it" and now I "get it".

 

[sahgwa]

I am not a Thelemite and I do not practice in the Æon of Horus under Crowley, but from my own experience there was a pointed moment of sober direct existential contact that did permanently change me, which matches the solemn experience Crowley talks about, and the reverence he holds in "those who understand.".

It was harrowing and I see the world still through the knowledge gained by the experience. It's not possible to emphasize the truth or importance of this realization enough, how liberating and obliterating it is when ultimate truth is understood in the very core of your being. I can see how integrating this perspective when you're not rigorously conditioned through some esoteric system or ready for it could lead to tragedy for the individual and those around them. I'm not sure if I should share it, but who gives a fuck.

Spoiler: Secret

It was a coming into contact with the expanse of nothingness that comprises all levels of existence. Nothing is born, nothing dies. Nothing has a name, nothing is. There is no point, no goal, no finish line, no failure or success. Something cannot exist within nothing. There are no humans, no gods, no art, no practice, no souls, no All, only nothing, forever, infinitely, always. There is no story, you haven't lived a life, and there is no one in your head listening to the thoughts that no one is saying. Given you reading this are the center, this most importantly applies directly to you, you are nothing.

I believe the absolute existential unyielding comprehension of this truth is why it's called "Crossing The Abyss", it's a nice phrase for the experience, because miraculously something does come through the other side. Of course there's a difference between reading about it and undergoing the initiation with your neck on the block

In the Thelemic corpus I think you could say your 'secret' spoiler was like what we call dissolving in the body of Nuit, which is to say, reconciling all things to their opposites. 2=0 . To come to nothing.
I like what Grant says, in his taking an Advaitist stance, that all is a dream, all is nothing, there is no duality. Because we are all. Hard to put into words yes. At the heart of all apparent illusions of form, is nonduality.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

I think you could say your 'secret' spoiler was like what we call dissolving in the body of Nuit

Would you argue, then, that Crossing the Abyss is a different realization / experience than the one I've shared? If so, how would you describe the difference?

 

[deci belle]

sahgwa said:

In the Thelemic corpus I think you could say your 'secret' spoiler was like what we call dissolving in the body of Nuit, which is to say, reconciling all things to their opposites. 2=0 . To come to nothing.
I like what Grant says, in his taking an Advaitist stance, that all is a dream, all is nothing, there is no duality. Because we are all. Hard to put into words yes. At the heart of all apparent illusions of form, is nonduality.

Reconciling is a (psychologically apportioned) philosophical postulate. Crossing the Abyss is an interruption of one's psychological stream of self-reifying conscious awareness, that is, ego-consciousness. By virtue of its nonpsychological reality, the abyss is what's left in terms of the cessation of the psychological function, because mind is one. The abyss is simply the nature of awake, which is not created, and is not relative to the nonexistent person having heretofore enjoyed turning the mind-ground of selfless awareness into the psychological apparatus of the being (with a body) that is going to die. Having a body is the point of departure relative to self (ego) reifying awareness and the nonpsychological.

Dissolving the body of Nuit, reconciling the totality of the creative INCLUDING its relative nothing to its opposite is not really possible other than in philosophic terms because the abyss is not the creative's opposite.

What I want to distinguish here is that such postulates only exist within the realm of words, that is, rational process. RELATIVITY. The Absolute, in terms of the experience of the abyss, is not relative. The relative already consists of duality— that's what makes it relative in the first place.

It is impossible to compare the conceivable in terms of inconceivability and vice versa Why? It's not within the realm of words. And that is precisely how one arrives at the abyss. One does not cross anything. Why? The abyss has no dimension, therefore distance does not exist. There is no here nor there. The abyss is one's perspective, unified, without reference to even nothing. The palpable, visceral sensation of the abyss is the absence of nothing. There is no nothing. Nothing does not exist, therefore the abyss is not empty.

As for what Grant says, it is still a philosophic, relative postulate. Yes, it's true— but even arriving at the significance of the truth, which is inconceivability itself, not within the words provided by Grant, is that such IS you, is not what matters at all. Even that the nature of the abyss is one's true identity, that it is you as much as you are not it, is STILL a relative aspect.

As to what I just wrote as well as the philosophic attributions sahgwa has provided, a hearty "so what" can be heard all round. And I agree.

The real spoiler is that neither ordinary self-reifying ego-consciousness nor the knowledge of nonorigination cancel each other into a neat result of nonduality unless one can prove it in everyday ordinary situations. Unless one can prove it in broad daylight, such words are powerless.

As sahgwa said, "At the heart of all apparent illusions of form, is nonduality." But this also deserves another round of, "so what." Why don't the two extremes cancel each other? The fact that the two extremes do not cancel out is because Mind is one. So in saying, "At the heart of all apparent illusions of form, is nonduality," leaves out the apparent illusion of the abyss. Why is it so convenient to leave out the inconceivable and only play with the word-borne? Because we don't know it. Even for those of us who do, still, such is the realm of inconceivability.

The real spoiler is that our very nature is the inconceivable, therefore we are inconceivable beings. It's true. But of the many who do cross the abyss, how many avail themselves of its bounty? The ancient admonishment is that "if you know, but cannot act on that knowledge, it is the same as not knowing." The truth is, it is not even necessary to cross the abyss to see its potential where most every ordinary person only sees form. Why? Because most every ordinary person is caught up in the flow of psychological momentum (karma), to see what is apparent to those who do not go along with the light of Creation. Neither duality nor nonduality has any real meaning for the vast multitudes in truth because karma (duality) and enlightenment (nonduality) ARE. THE. SAME.

Seeing the light of Creation is going along with (created) karmic energy, whereas for those who manage to turn the light around to point at its source, see (nonoriginated) light of pure Essence and partake of its potential, no different than the Creative's; only such people do not go along from birth into death at the whim of every situational cycle. The light is one. We are inconceivable. Who wants to chime in with "so what" now?

The power comprising the abyss is what animates the Creative; power is one, the light is one, Mind is one. Reality and delusion look the same because they are the same. It is possible to enter into inconceivability on the spot without regard to essentially meaningless philosophic speculation and experience sameness in everyday ordinary situations without anyone being the wiser. Why? Why not?