[Opinion] Relationship between worshiper and their god

[Morell]

I'd encourage anyone to look into non-dogmatic Sufism. It’s one of the most beautiful ways I’ve seen a person relate to the divine. Think Rumi.

What was beautiful about it? I didn't get deep, but what I got out of it sounded like spiritual death.

Taking from my poor memory, you are supposed to turn from human to angel, and from angel to breath of god... which sounds like becoming a food for a god, or simply melt away into god. Becoming nothing.

 

[zamradiel]

From that angle, I'm with you entirely. I was really speaking about the expressions of manifestation still within the causal flow and, sure, I can admire the spark that chooses to become food for its god

What was beautiful about it? I didn't get deep, but what I got out of it sounded like spiritual death.

Taking from my poor memory, you are supposed to turn from human to angel, and from angel to breath of god... which sounds like becoming a food for a god, or simply melt away into god. Becoming nothing.

 

[Morell]

From that angle, I'm with you entirely. I was really speaking about the expressions of manifestation still within the causal flow and, sure, I can admire the spark that chooses to become food for its god

I definitely do not see that as positive thing, to throw away life like that.

 

[zamradiel]

I can love Rumi's longing and still walk beneath the Black Sun.

I definitely do not see that as positive thing, to throw away life like that.

 

[Morell]

I can love Rumi's longing and still walk beneath the Black Sun.

Do I understand correct that you admire Rumi's path while you yourself being on entirely different one? I imagine that you seek rather to remain yourself, then?

 

[zamradiel]

I admire his devotion, yes... but my compass points inward. I don't seek to vanish into love, only to know what burns when nothing else remains.

Do I understand correct that you admire Rumi's path while you yourself being on entirely different one? I imagine that you seek rather to remain yourself, then?

 

[MorganBlack]

IMHO, speaking as a magician, and as someone who is not much of a religious person, I feel the Greco-Egyptian sorcerers who gave us much of our Arte struck the right balance. If I am reading them correctly.

On one end they kept the gods on tight leashes, giving them just enough constraints to play out in sorcery but no so much containment their action is forced into tight boxes. On this front I also feel the neopagan-like worship forces them into gilded cages and limited range-of-action.

The way I re-frame worship - and some I am sure have arrived here: on the Neoplatonic archetypal level it might better be seen on one hand as theosis - making us smaller to let more of them in by , by humbling our left-hemispheric ego for divine influx - while later in the sublunar layer, also working on the animist level as a sorcerer's trick to butter them up. Carrots before sticks.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

I am towards my magic and mysticism more secular, but something I observed in a very few people around me: the people with the strongest longterm bonds with Gods where always the persons who almost talk daily with the Gods like it is an almost human-like friendship. It were also the people who are less dogmatic and with mostly an open mind to what they call God. Maybe that is the secret to good contact: having an open mind, be a vessel and just trust it is there. And maybe then it doesn't matter if it worship or not. .. In one kind I admire them, in a longterm relationship with a god or other spirit after a period I always want to break free and break bonds. Not always the best way of doing things so I tend make pacts for a shorter time. Even in contact with gods and spirits I have a trickster/rebellious kind of mind.

 

[Morell]

I am towards my magic and mysticism more secular, but something I observed in a very few people around me: the people with the strongest longterm bonds with Gods where always the persons who almost talk daily with the Gods like it is an almost human-like friendship. It were also the people who are less dogmatic and with mostly an open mind to what they call God. Maybe that is the secret to good contact: having an open mind, be a vessel and just trust it is there. And maybe then it doesn't matter if it worship or not. .. In one kind I admire them, in a longterm relationship with a god or other spirit after a period I always want to break free and break bonds. Not always the best way of doing things so I tend make pacts for a shorter time. Even in contact with gods and spirits I have a trickster/rebellious kind of mind.

I have to admit, I truly admire people in long term relationship with a deity, they really do live like having a very personal daily contact with their deity. Kind of friendship and love that is valued as much as hated.

I know one such person. And it's not me.

 

[MorganBlack]

Nice. That daily practice I would call theosis, or mystical theology. It's very very personal. You're spamming your Nephesh / subconscious over time until they come through. Works! But the framework is more mystical and magico-religious and not Goetia. Well, you can treat daimons like gods, and I think Demonolators are doing a very fine job modulating them into very nice manifestations.

About Demonolatry, a few years ago I used to be like WTF? But one trad magician who has been calling Bune since 2006 mentioned he noticed, since the Demonolators came around, Bune comes through much more quickly, even while he does not approach Bune as a neo-pagan god as they do. We have synergy! In what I call a 'mythstream' tapping into the Archetypal Goetic ritual at various time depths. It could also be called a 'current'. We really need better language here.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

Nice. That daily practice I would call theosis, or mystical theology. It's very very personal. You're spamming your Nephesh / subconscious over time until they come through. Works! But the framework is more mystical and magico-religious and not Goetia. Well, you can treat daimons like gods, and I think Demonolators are doing a very fine job modulating them into very nice manifestations.

About Demonolatry, a few years ago I used to be like WTF? But one trad magician who has been calling Bune since 2006 mentioned he noticed, since the Demonolators came around, Bune comes through much more quickly, even while he does not approach Bune as a neo-pagan god as they do. We have synergy! In what I call a 'mythstream' tapping into the Archetypal Goetic ritual at various time depths. It could also be called a 'current'. We really need better language here.

The detail here that is both persons who had that relationship, both had vivid memories about being a monk in past lives. I am more the proverbial ugly witch in the forest who likes to work with Goetia as well, so I tend to think completely different from them.

I agree we need better language here, but I have that in a lot discussions. A part of to get educated as a magician, is learning how to talk about magic and mysticism. (for me that are different but connected things) It is a language of its own that needs to be trained. I would even say, that it is necessary to have good quality discussions on a good quality forum and/or have quality discussions in real life. It trains the human mind and feeds it. And it helps to not to get stuck in wormholes for all to long because it provides feedback as wel. Detailed study has a certain risk to get stuck.