[Opinion] Stealing powers from entities

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Angels and Demons to be precise.

Each angel and each demon has certain things about them, their station, their office, their psalm, their enn, their appearance, their weaponry, their powers.

But what is a power?

Let us take "becoming bold and witty" for an example. Humor is not the same to two different people, so what can we do - read the person from a distance just like salespeople do. Get their characteristics and feel of their current emotional state. Take initiative and approach and drop a one liner, if no laugh then we apologize and try again on someone else with the same process, doing it over and over without expectations other than to be bold and witty.

Or lets take reputation. Everyone has skeletons in their closet, some more atrocious than others to be frank. So what can a trashed reputation do? First, become competent at something and excel at it. Live a different life powered by true repentance. Do random acts of kindness weekly, then daily, then hourly. The Universe will respond, and straighten the matter out. Your reputation will then have been increased.

True, not an overnight gain, and there is the feature in angels and demons, powers to be laid upon us within the hour right?
Are we really worthy of those powers?

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

At the least, they will all have to do their best above and beyond to please you with their power, and you will at least have given it your all as well - which is a trademark for proper magic to occur.

 

[Norse900]

But why would they need stolen to begin with? Even having that power, it would be unlikely that it would work the same way for.you as it does for them. Both Marble and Raphael heal, but in their own way.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Hmm .. good points.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

However, its funny, I was thinking about this earlier.

Most occult forms of healing occur energetically, magnetically, electrically. Because males and females or hybrids can use magnetism alone, electricity alone, or both in their fundamental energetic makeup across their subtle bodies, so the only real way to heal would be energy healing. So, while Marbas and Raphael may heal differently (I am ignorant of how either heal to be frank), it would still be at an energetic level of healing, right?

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

The reason why to "steal" their power, is to show them they need to work harder and smarter for us operators. Because if we need to, we can always do it ourselves mundanely. May take longer but can be done.

 

[Noth]

The reason why to "steal" their power, is to show them they need to work harder and smarter for us operators. Because if we need to, we can always do it ourselves mundanely. May take longer but can be done.

So, I know you don't know me, and I'm just a nameless, faceless voice, but I'm going to caution you here.

The attitude of stealing power from spirits, or showing them that they, "Need to work harder" is both juvenile and incalculably dangerous.

Sure there are times when a heavier hand is needed, but even if your spirits aren't working for you now there are a myriad of steps to take first.

I've been burned for something I thought wasn't really THAT big a deal, and I've known people of affluence and status in society fall to destitution for offending a hot spirit...and thats just one fate in this life.

We may have authority over spirits while they are "in the triangle" but please remember at some point you will need to let the spirit out.

I have found it far easier to ask the spirit to teach, rather than attempt to steal from it.

 

[KjEno186]

I'm just some armchair neophyte who likes to read a lot. I'm focused on what I believe to be the essentials for the time being. That being said, at my age there's time to consider as much relevant information as I can obtain about magic before putting my fingers into the sockets of the Universal outlet and confirming that, sure, magic can actually make things worse when mishandled.

Consider something Josephine McCarthy said in her book, The Magical Knowledge Trilogy, on page 54:

"One of the major dangers of doing high magic without foundations, scruples, or commonsense, is blowing one’s fuse in a spectacular, all-singing, all-dancing fashion. If someone has natural ability and they play with powerful magical rituals or visions, then they may get hit. If they have no boundaries or foundation, or they lust for power, then they will be blown apart.

"When people get their first taste of real magic, it can be like a drug if there is no internal discipline within the practitioner. Such a taste then becomes an addiction, and magic is done just because they can do it, to prove something to themselves, to impress others, or to draw things to them. When they succeed, their ego becomes inflated and common sense goes out of the window. Just as amphetamine can give people a false sense of importance and greatness, so can magical power. It will hike you up on a great high and you will plateau before you crash unceremoniously to the ground. The crash can come in the way of degeneracy, idiocy, or mental instability. It can be fast and spectacular or slow and insidious, but it will come one way or the other. History is littered with tales of magicians degenerating slowly into rotting heaps, literally blowing themselves up, or becoming parodies of themselves."

When she writes of "blowing a fuse," I believe it means that one's magic from that point forward just won't work.

I've known people of affluence and status in society fall to destitution for offending a hot spirit...and thats just one fate in this life.

Indeed.

 

[Roma]

Just like computer operating systems get upgrades and sometimes get better as a result, so too intelligent entities (including humans) can get upgrades.

For example chakras are operated by elemental intelligences that are managed by lesser or greater devas. The human is supposed to have 7 primary chakras, 49 secondary and 343 tertiary chakras so there is a lot of scope for having chakra entities replaced by more advanced/skilled entities with greater powers.

On the other hand, if the human system is too difficult to work in, some of the chakra entities will go looking for a new home. Severe autism is an example.

Be careful about trying to take higher powered entities that may not be well suited to human society. Not only is taking without asking likely to get the human into trouble, but the incoming entity (perhaps with the desired power) usually has subsidiary intelligences - like the Trojan Horse.

It is better to be on the RHP and await higher beings deciding the human deserves and is competent for an upgrade.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

So, I know you don't know me, and I'm just a nameless, faceless voice, but I'm going to caution you here.

The attitude of stealing power from spirits, or showing them that they, "Need to work harder" is both juvenile and incalculably dangerous.

Sure there are times when a heavier hand is needed, but even if your spirits aren't working for you now there are a myriad of steps to take first.

I've been burned for something I thought wasn't really THAT big a deal, and I've known people of affluence and status in society fall to destitution for offending a hot spirit...and thats just one fate in this life.

We may have authority over spirits while they are "in the triangle" but please remember at some point you will need to let the spirit out.

I have found it far easier to ask the spirit to teach, rather than attempt to steal from it.

True, yet how many of us want to do the work of others for them?
Perhaps Im wrong and spirits excel at this point.
However, I think that they would also rightfully so get mad, if we raise them out of their slumber to put them to work for us.

So, might be just as wise to put our own work in before we reach out and touch someone above or below.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I think we have a misunderstanding here.
What my original suggestion was, was basically to put our own work in on powers they can bestow on us, which does two things naturally:
Makes them work harder to offer us things rather than offering what we already have.
Makes us put our own work in as we should, to the very best of our ability, and that way dont raise them unnecessarily.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I see your points, its also very one dimensional for me to post what I did.

For example, wit is different among the individual. No comic is the same as another except for some outright no shame plagiarist.
It is also different in context, content and delivery. And this must be done in a split second. So memorizing a book of quips is helpful, but just as likely to irritate a person as to make them laugh at it. Again, being able to split second read someone would be absolutely crucial.

And the second benefit of putting your own work in, the more it is fkeshed out, is likely to be something (power) out of the blue, or naturally enhanced ability in shorter time than would take most to achieve the same..

An example here is you are not a sales oriented person, but in the process of trying your best to understand and practice cold reading people eventually makes you a rockstar of sales with the aid of the spirits, or at the least makes you a competent salesperson with no experience or background in sales.

Also, being "bold" can also be viewed drastically different by others - hostile, confronting, intimidating, abusive, etc. It can also be just as bad but in a different emotional context as far as coming off as: dull, unimaginative, overcompensating, etc.

So yes, spirits can be very helpful rather than being thought of as some convenient grocery store for "powers".

Again, I know I am frequently incorrect and can roll with being corrected

Maybe what it actually does in the long run is show us the creative ability of theses spirits, the galactic reach of these spurts, and the individual personality of these spirits, and their capability to use these powers in some transferable cross functional capabilities.
Also the insight they have, knowing us from before us knowing them. They have insight which can be helpful. It can also be controlling, and perhaps that is what we actually want to steal, is the ability to not be controlled by particular spirits. Even if that control is some ego trip, fantasy, or the like. We can do that well enough on our own, we humans.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Im not saying necessarily that any or all spirits are controlling, is some delusional thought etc.
What I am saying is that there powers, or the need for them, can become controlling.

 

[Roma]

I have observed that some important humans have specialized entities to help them. Sometimes those entities are passed on in families e.g. J S Bach and descendants.

Sometimes the entities hang around for a few centuries until they find or are given to a suitable human.

I first discovered them when looking for entities to replace those departed from a dementia case I know well.

 

[Sage]

To me, stolen or given/"gifted" power isn't true power.It's just "borrowed" power and borrowed things tend to have both a time limit aside other possible limitations.

And let's not forget, power that isn't developed or conquered by yourself, but rather taken from or given by others will never be your power nor real power.So it can always be taken away, apecially when you most need it.

Reason why I don't even bother with things that aren't already mine or that I did not acquire myself through my own hard work.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Excellent points.

While I sit here contemplating whether or not I should use low Magick to knock bad luck out of my way, or resort to putting my own work in for the desired end.

 

[KjEno186]

While I sit here contemplating whether or not I should use low Magick to knock bad luck out of my way, or resort to putting my own work in for the desired end.

Take some time to read The Magical Knowledge Trilogy. It's in the forum library. It covers a lot of different magical topics in an easy to understand conversational way. You may not agree with all of the points presented, but I believe there's a lot to learn from someone like Josephine McCarthy who has natural ability, has made mistakes, and has given so much information away for free.

Makes us put our own work in as we should, to the very best of our ability,

McCarthy encourages this from the very beginning. It is a cramped and narrow road to success, but you own it all in the end.

Maybe what it actually does in the long run is show us the creative ability of theses spirits,

By meditation and "inner work" the Quareia system makes one do the work to find and learn from "contacts." I'm not going to lie. This can take months of meditation and visualization to progress beyond the very basics, at least for someone like myself who isn't gifted. It is by means of this work that one eventually can mediate power to work unconditionally for the Universe. It is then that the spirits one works with utilize their creative abilities in conjunction with their human partners. Again, read the book since McCarthy explains it better than I can.

I don't know much about your situation other than what you have posted on this forum. It seems as if you have had a taste of power in the past, but you no longer have access to it. You did something, and it burned you out. Your life circumstances are unstable, and it's creating a desperation for something, anything that you can find to change your luck. I'm not saying you must study Quareia. Self initiation in Golden Dawn could work for you, but it also might take a lot longer than you expect to lay the foundations for progress. All the little props mean nothing if the magician has no focus, no singular and overriding purpose in life.

Perhaps I'm wrong about my assumptions, but what I can recommend is getting out your tarot deck and asking a lot of pointed questions. Make some goals and then say, "Tell me what it would look like if I do something to achieve [goal]." Remember, divination isn't "fortune telling." You want guidance on potential actions, not fixed outcomes. Don't ask, "Will I find a job today?" Instead ask, "Tell me what I should know about going for an interview at ..."

If you can't borrow (or steal) someone's powerboat [to plow through the astral waves], learn to surf [the astral waves] instead.

 

[Mider2009]

If you can steal their powers why do you need them....

 

[Yazata]

Marbas

In my opinion (take it or leave it ) this is one of those names that is very interesting.
If it is a compound Hebrew it could be MAR (to be bitter / be in pain) + BVS (to trample). A Hebrew explanation would then be "trampler of pain".
With a bit more imagination bit could be formed by the Sumerian MAH (great) + RAH (disease) + HAS (to break). A Sumerian interpretation would then be "great breaker of diseases".
Another might be Persian MARBA (spring habitation) or MARBASTAN ( to tame a snake).

This is also seen in (possible...) Interpretations of his Enn:
Renach Tasa Uberace Biasa Icar.

A Sumerian(esque) version could be:
RIN AK TA SA UBARA SE BI AS E GAR
(Tear off the curse, form a walk around me, light me up, protect and live within me)

A Latin(esque) version could be:
RENASCI TASSA UBER AC A BI ASA ICERE
(To be reborn and receive plentiful from the two sanctuaries, that is the task for which i make a treaty with you)

A Hebrew(esque..) version could be:
REYACH TVSHIAH OVB BARAKAH BI AZA IQAR
(The smell, your counsel is a blessing for the soothsayer, please Kindle it, magnificent..)

This is based on my idea that (many of these) spirits' powers / attributes / appearance are shaped by the expectations / interpretations of names and words.

 

[Öwnchef]

> J S Bach and descendants.

Right. One of them once was a student of mine.