[Opinion] The Divine Woman, Anima

[Magpie]

• Plato's "other half" - presupposing a human is an androgyne with half missing e.g. if you are a man, you can be say 80% male and the remaining 20% female is your hidden missing part, so if you found a woman that was 80% female and 20% male, it would be your "other half"
• Germanic Valkyrie, sleeping beauty, fetch of the opposite gender
• Greek Apollo and Artemis
• Hindu ascetics referring to a woman inside them
• Jung's anima
• And many other traditional or modern concept regarding a hidden female power/person inside a man

You get the idea, there is something of an opposite gender related to the being we are. I don't want to get into details of specific traditions, as the thread is not meant to be comparative analysis or a lecture on myths or philosophy, but instead I want it to be practical. I see in most traditions, that a unity with that "divine woman" is a prerequisite for further progress along the path. Many of you probably saw her in dreams, fleeting encounters, not being able to find her and "settle".

What do you think, what is that "anima" (let's call her that) and what does it mean to find her? What practice is required to unity with her?

 

[deci belle]

It is possible to conjure such primordial elemental distinctions in order to experience their dissolution (by using them together as a tool of sorts) in a process of reversion arriving at selfless knowledge of inherent wholeness.

Experiencing such Virtue of Receptivity might unavoidably be termed an understanding of the Creative, as the Creative's primal organization encompasses particulate polar distinction subsuming within wave energy [This is knowledge itself; there is no thing]. So, you might typify the Creative in terms of femme, as such, but yin and yang swirling about within her vortex are what they are (created, and therefore a polar relationship in action). It's just the way it is and no one knows why it is the way it is or why it is possible to experience reversion in terms of any realization (beyond the OPs subject), to experience selfless nonorigination. Upon returning, one must become its living expression.

Furthermore, it is possible to project categorical typification in the aftermath of realization, for the purposes of recreational philosophical speculation as to what sex nonorigination is, ie: progenitor/progenitrix. But let's not, because it is not. Why? Because there is always that which is beyond.

Since, per the OP, there is a decided (and properly) discriminatory distinction towards the femme aspect, it should be noted that "getting there", requires seeing a referential sameness "drawing from below", in order to blend (as milk and water). This is because knowledge is truly being, and knowing such, exacts that much, in terms of the process of reversion to seeing the nonorigination of human spiritual potential, as is.

So there is a necessary reason for employing the polar aspect in the first place, in terms of its (the Creative's) functional organization, not due to any sexual bias per se, and neither can we discount (or forget) its inherent potential, because the Creative, as well as the created, are, by virtue of an ineffably living aware potential, an inherently inconceivable selfless knowing, awake without beginning.

All such devices, as per the subject of the OP, are signposts along the way. When you see a stop sign or an arrow, wouldn't it be sheer foolishness to fixate on the sign itself? But I wouldn't begrudge the culturally derivative scenery along the way either.

 

[Magpie]

It is possible to conjure such primordial elemental distinctions in order to experience their dissolution (by using them together as a tool of sorts) in a process of reversion arriving at selfless knowledge of inherent wholeness.

Experiencing such Virtue of Receptivity might unavoidably be termed an understanding of the Creative, as the Creative's primal organization encompasses particulate polar distinction subsuming within wave energy [This is knowledge itself; there is no thing]. So, you might typify the Creative in terms of femme, as such, but yin and yang swirling about within her vortex are what they are (created, and therefore a polar relationship in action). It's just the way it is and no one knows why it is the way it is or why it is possible to experience reversion in terms of any realization (beyond the OPs subject), to experience selfless nonorigination. Upon returning, one must become its living expression.

Furthermore, it is possible to project categorical typification in the aftermath of realization, for the purposes of recreational philosophical speculation as to what sex nonorigination is, ie: progenitor/progenitrix. But let's not, because it is not. Why? Because there is always that which is beyond.

Since, per the OP, there is a decided (and properly) discriminatory distinction towards the femme aspect, it should be noted that "getting there", requires seeing a referential sameness "drawing from below", in order to blend (as milk and water). This is because knowledge is truly being, and knowing such, exacts that much, in terms of the process of reversion to seeing the nonorigination of human spiritual potential, as is.

So there is a necessary reason for employing the polar aspect in the first place, in terms of its (the Creative's) functional organization, not due to any sexual bias per se, and neither can we discount (or forget) its inherent potential, because the Creative, as well as the created, are, by virtue of an ineffably living aware potential, an inherently inconceivable selfless knowing, awake without beginning.

All such devices, as per the subject of the OP, are signposts along the way. When you see a stop sign or an arrow, wouldn't it be sheer foolishness to fixate on the sign itself? But I wouldn't begrudge the culturally derivative scenery along the way either.

Your post requires further thought to properly respond to, but there is one thing I must touch now - creative vs created dynamic. Are you saying that "the Creative" - so the same "thing" as I called the anima, is what conditions the material self?

I am asking that, because during my own meditations today, it occurred to me that the anima is simply the daimon, the double, the genius, whatever the traditional word for it is, in order words, the soul. The entity that takes that is bound to the material organism and through which the material organism is shaped. Which would also explain why alchemical mercury is neither male nor female, but instead is "dynamic". The soul would be the double. Which would make sense, as the knowledge of the "subtle body" or the soul is necessary for further progress...

 

[deci belle]

Oh great to hear from you, Magpie~ sure, well there is a bit to define, since I am so unfamiliar with Greek/Roman/Egyptian cosmology/mythical tradition. In spite of the content of my response/reply, the overarching thrust of my intent was to see if others who (in spite of being fans of yours), might still wish to dive into this seeming abyss of women's studies>>> hahaha~ I hoped to break up any jammed logs/stigmas and open it up a bit further per your introduction/invitation, by stripping off a bit of the femme atmosphere.

I'd would be willing to go with your momentum here, in terms of Anima and the aspect you've presented in picking up on "creative" vs "created dynamic". It might be a far reach, in retrospect, but at least we tried❤︎

 

[Magpie]

Oh great to hear from you, Magpie~ sure, well there is a bit to define, since I am so unfamiliar with Greek/Roman/Egyptian cosmology/mythical tradition. In spite of the content of my response/reply, the overarching thrust of my intent was to see if others who (in spite of being fans of yours), might still wish to dive into this seeming abyss of women's studies>>> hahaha~ I hoped to break up any jammed logs/stigmas and open it up a bit further per your introduction/invitation, by stripping off a bit of the femme atmosphere.

I'd would be willing to go with your momentum here, in terms of Anima and the aspect you've presented in picking up on "creative" vs "created dynamic". It might be a far reach, in retrospect, but at least we tried❤︎

I re-read your earlier reply. Good that you bring up yin and yang. So obvious. It hints at the fact too - ying has a drop of yang and yang has a drop of yin, on top of perfectly fitting each other as a circle.

I appreciate the push towards stripping the mystique away, even though in this case, I must admit I like that aspect. Makes it sound much more romantic and interesting, than most of our magickal workings.

Don't mind the definitions or traditional framings, we don't want to mythologize it. I was doubling down with the second post, but let's take a step back. Let's focus on practice. Perhaps a working centred around invoking the opposites to what we are day-to-day and then trying to merge with then? Obviously a person of opposite sex would be a good candidate. - any ideas here?

And a good point about retroactive categorisation of that "thing" we call anima as female. Someone who "got there" would see that opposites are irrelevant, so it is natural to categorise them as female to get the point across...

 

[deci belle]

Makes it sound much more romantic and interesting~meeoowww!

Not only that, the spark of the erotic in psycho-sexual fusion is knowledge of the first water that goes all the way through (relatively speaking).

As far as practical application goes, conjuring (nondifferentiated) merging of polarized yin and yang that is being perpetuated in one's own mind by self-reflective psychological momentum is the means to…?

I posit the question, because, as is, in terms of the Creative, yin and yang are already merged in action, yet cooperatively intact, selfless and pure, in perpetually fluid subsumption. This is the model of the created constituting time.

Creation itself being the living karmic formula modeled on the Creative, such as it is, is all we have to work with.

The Creative symbolizes the working dynamic of its organization from which there is no escaping, yet the means to actualizing the fusion of the elemental distinction-in-motion, is also intact due to the fact that the Creative, being the model only, is not fallen into Creation. I capitalize Creation here because the Absolute, the Creative, and Creation form the cosmic relationship, illustrating Padmasambhava's device that recapitulates the ontological order: Absolute/potential; Creative/dynamic; Created/conditional(ly) poised for return by its inherent essential nonoriginated undifferentiated immaterial spiritual potential.

The "spiritual" is not a referent to the psychological capacity. The spiritual is purely nonpsychological awareness, denoting that which is the means to transcendence (enlightening activity) in the midst of, and by virtue of the essential nature of Creation's conditional relative duality.

Since Creation is already situated as embryonic nonoriginated essence (upon turning the light around), it is possible to revert karmic (differentiated energy) momentum back through the "go-between" (the mysterious female of taoist origin, ie: the Creative), to experience one's own mind as is before the first thought. "Turning the light around" is a term from The Secret of the Golden Flower teaching.

As far as practical application goes, conjuring (nondifferentiated) merging of polarized yin and yang that is being perpetuated in one's own mind by self-reflective psychological momentum is the means to…? That is, what would be the point of authentic effective transcendent praxis?

Summarizing the above: the Absolute is darkness; the light first appears as the Creative emerges as a pinpoint of illumination in the vast dimness of space, revealing the cosmic model of Creation's dual aspect. The return to functional application of unified consciousness in the midst of temporal existence is to "turn the light around", pointing it back at its source, in a process of natural inconceivable reversion.

For anybody interested, taoist spiritual alchemy's teaching tradition is based on sexual terminology, but that is (not) only a device to get people's attention. Even so, the southern school of Complete Reality IS geared to exploit sexual cultivation for gathering erotic energy for the purpose of observational concentration only because of the need for those of advanced age who do not have powers of concentration that younger people still have access to.

Just my two cents~ I hope this much is not too overwhelming for the purpose of Magpie's topic, and that there is conceptual fodder being introduced to further the intent of her OP.

 

[Sedim Haba]

• Plato's "other half" - presupposing a human is an androgyne with half missing e.g. if you are a man, you can be say 80% male and the remaining 20% female is your hidden missing part, so if you found a woman that was 80% female and 20% male, it would be your "other half"
• Germanic Valkyrie, sleeping beauty, fetch of the opposite gender
• Greek Apollo and Artemis
• Hindu ascetics referring to a woman inside them
• Jung's anima
• And many other traditional or modern concept regarding a hidden female power/person inside a man

You get the idea, there is something of an opposite gender related to the being we are. I don't want to get into details of specific traditions, as the thread is not meant to be comparative analysis or a lecture on myths or philosophy, but instead I want it to be practical. I see in most traditions, that a unity with that "divine woman" is a prerequisite for further progress along the path. Many of you probably saw her in dreams, fleeting encounters, not being able to find her and "settle".

What do you think, what is that "anima" (let's call her that) and what does it mean to find her? What practice is required to unity with her?

I don't know Plato's Other Half well enough, can anyone explain in simple terms? I'm standing on one foot... as the saying goes.

As to your question at the end, well I have a ... unique perspective, but I've caused enough trouble for one day.

 

[FireBorn]

Im not book smart like y'all, I dont know the "right" cool kid terminology for it, or the perfect framework, so I will stay out of the book club theory on this.

I do however, have my experience with the Anima. I will share that. When I first bumped into my Anima I was confused as hell about it. A feminine part of me? Wtf??? Hold the hell up here! Hahaha (insert every military veteran joke here) Yeah it was strange if I am honest Culture doesn't allow this, well the culture I grew up in anyway (I am GenerationX). Okay, so I did some reading about what it is, kind of. Enough to understand every man has an Anima, the feminine current inside him. Being in this occult space, hermetically speaking it tracks perfectly actually.

Integrating my Anima is the real meat here, at least it was for me. Again, theory kids can have fun with theory, and intellectual book stuff has a place, but for me, what can I actually do with this shit right? Yeah integrating, so easy to say, but doing it? Read about that and have fun lol. To me the integration of the Anima is very much like integrating with the ego (You know, that thing you dont kill?). Its giving voice to the feminine current inside me, it IS me after all. The sentimentality, compassion, care, love, chaos, softness. Allowing it voice. Not control, not domination, just voice.

My ego gets a voice, my Anima gets a voice. I listen to them, then as a sovereign, I choose. To me that is the sweet spot, not pushing, not pulling. Balance between the two. Harmony. True Polarity between them. Becoming whole.

The greats are dead. The books are flat. Lived experience trumps all day and twice on Sunday. Did it wrong? Still better than books because its lived. I know, you're right, 'how can you learn anything without books?' sure man, because I went outside, got dirty and lived some life. Maybe I am wrong, but man, Im happy. Did I describe it wrong according to some dead author? Im glad, I dont care, I am becoming more of a whole person laughing my ass off because I am doing the work, not reading about doing the work, even if it takes me longer. This aint a race.

Honestly though, did you truly expect me to come play by the rules? After all this time you still thought I was gonna fit inside your box? That says more about you than it does me. hahahaha You love me.

Hopefully something I said sparks something in others.

 

[pruner_tipster]

I don't know Plato's Other Half well enough, can anyone explain in simple terms? I'm standing on one foot... as the saying goes.

As to your question at the end, well I have a ... unique perspective, but I've caused enough trouble for one day.

In short, the soul is androgynous and only splits as it descended into this realm, half going to a male body and half going to the female body and it’s only when they unite, in eros, that the soul reunites and is made whole. (Off the cuff answer)

 

[BBBB]

I suppose it's like a shadow. For a male it's internalized, like a female part inside of them. For female it's externalized, like masculine they reconize outside of them. Like with a shadow, they can deny and suppress it, or integrate it. Spiritual doesn't even have to do anything with it, it's like a kind of empathy you learn for another gender. Having 0 representation from another gender in your psyche makes one very difficult in relationships and cuts your intelligence in general.

 

[Magpie]

Makes it sound much more romantic and interesting~meeoowww!

Not only that, the spark of the erotic in psycho-sexual fusion is knowledge of the first water that goes all the way through (relatively speaking).

As far as practical application goes, conjuring (nondifferentiated) merging of polarized yin and yang that is being perpetuated in one's own mind by self-reflective psychological momentum is the means to…?

I posit the question, because, as is, in terms of the Creative, yin and yang are already merged in action, yet cooperatively intact, selfless and pure, in perpetually fluid subsumption. This is the model of the created constituting time.

Creation itself being the living karmic formula modeled on the Creative, such as it is, is all we have to work with.

The Creative symbolizes the working dynamic of its organization from which there is no escaping, yet the means to actualizing the fusion of the elemental distinction-in-motion, is also intact due to the fact that the Creative, being the model only, is not fallen into Creation. I capitalize Creation here because the Absolute, the Creative, and Creation form the cosmic relationship, illustrating Padmasambhava's device that recapitulates the ontological order: Absolute/potential; Creative/dynamic; Created/conditional(ly) poised for return by its inherent essential nonoriginated undifferentiated immaterial spiritual potential.

The "spiritual" is not a referent to the psychological capacity. The spiritual is purely nonpsychological awareness, denoting that which is the means to transcendence (enlightening activity) in the midst of, and by virtue of the essential nature of Creation's conditional relative duality.

Since Creation is already situated as embryonic nonoriginated essence (upon turning the light around), it is possible to revert karmic (differentiated energy) momentum back through the "go-between" (the mysterious female of taoist origin, ie: the Creative), to experience one's own mind as is before the first thought. "Turning the light around" is a term from The Secret of the Golden Flower teaching.



Summarizing the above: the Absolute is darkness; the light first appears as the Creative emerges as a pinpoint of illumination in the vast dimness of space, revealing the cosmic model of Creation's dual aspect. The return to functional application of unified consciousness in the midst of temporal existence is to "turn the light around", pointing it back at its source, in a process of natural inconceivable reversion.

For anybody interested, taoist spiritual alchemy's teaching tradition is based on sexual terminology, but that is (not) only a device to get people's attention. Even so, the southern school of Complete Reality IS geared to exploit sexual cultivation for gathering erotic energy for the purpose of observational concentration only because of the need for those of advanced age who do not have powers of concentration that younger people still have access to.

Just my two cents~ I hope this much is not too overwhelming for the purpose of Magpie's topic, and that there is conceptual fodder being introduced to further the intent of her OP.

The Taoist perspective was missing from my original post. Now we have an even more complete list of traditional framings of this problem. Cosmology of it makes sense, as it closely maps to the western alchemy.

Going back to the "in-between"... This sounds right. If you don't mind, tell us what practice is used to get to that point? Perhaps physical exhaustion? Or long meditations sessions?

As for other replies, "feminine" is just a sexy way to put it. Not a literal female anything. All the "feminine" traits or behaviors are conditioned and many of them change with culture. That's a red herring. There are definitely subtle differences between sexes which condition those real life differences, but it doesn't mean we should focus on the end result. Female is generative (or as deci belle says "creative"), receptive, immanent. It is the downward movement from the Absolute, because it creates material things. Shakti and Shiva in tantra are great illustration of it. Of course it doesn't imply inferiority, because without that feminine generative aspect, nothing would exist in this cosmological model. So this is all about working with those hidden energies inside us, not about listening to mental noise that our conditioned brains categorize as "female".

 

[pruner_tipster]

I love the tantric origin myth story that without the feminine, the masculine was just sitting around self-pleasuring

 

[Magpie]

I love the tantric origin myth story that without the feminine, the masculine was just sitting around self-pleasuring

What? hahaha, source please? I mean what happens later is still funny. Shakti working on Shiva like a monkey on a stick, as he sits still.

 

[pruner_tipster]

What? hahaha, source please? I mean what happens later is still funny. Shakti working on Shiva like a monkey on a stick, as he sits still.

I’ll look for the source in the morning. ive read (qutie a bit on tantra and) that Parvati was essentially created to lure Shiva down off the mountain where he was “meditating”

 

[Sedim Haba]

In short, the soul is androgynous and only splits as it descended into this realm, half going to a male body and half going to the female body and it’s only when they unite, in eros, that the soul reunites and is made whole. (Off the cuff answer)

Interesting, that's a bit like one interpretation of Eve. It wasn't just a rib, that's miss-translation. It was the SIDE. HALF. Everything from the Divine Feminine was torn out of Adam, and given to Eve. Two beings only half of the original, complete when joined again.

 

[pruner_tipster]

Interesting, that's a bit like one interpretation of Eve. It wasn't just a rib, that's miss-translation. It was the SIDE. HALF. Everything from the Divine Feminine was torn out of Adam, and given to Eve. Two beings only half of the original, complete when joined again.

Yes, it’s neo-platonic and exists in other mythologies including certain readings of genesis

Post automatically merged: Today at 3:57 PM

What? hahaha, source please? I mean what happens later is still funny. Shakti working on Shiva like a monkey on a stick, as he sits still.

It should be one of these. Ive been out of the tantra rabbit hole too long to remember exactly. But i think it’s based on the definition of ananda shakti vs samadhi or maybe my brain just did a thing.

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I think Sally Kempton touches on the myth as well In her book on the Goddesses