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For me personally, hell does not exist. Perhaps, Psychologically on someone individually. They might experience a hell of some sort. But, what are your thoughts?
It may be more accurate to refer to the Underworld than to Hell
"Inanna is dressed in her finest clothes and wears the crown of heaven on her head, beads around her neck, her breastplate, golden ring and carries her scepter, the rod of power. Just before she enters the underworld, she gives Ninsubur instructions on how to come to her aid should she fail to return when expected. Upon her arrival at the gates of the underworld Inanna knocks loudly and demands entrance. Neti, the chief gatekeeper, asks who she is and, when Inanna answers, “I am Inanna, Queen of Heaven”, Neti asks why she would wish entrance to the land “from which no traveler returns.” "
For me personally, hell does not exist. Perhaps, Psychologically on someone individually. They might experience a hell of some sort. But, what are your thoughts?
From a purely metaphysical standpoint, it is actually a surprisingly sensible idea when taken in hand with the concept of heaven - but only if seen beyond the lens of religious dogma.
It is simple metaphysics that the Astral Body, which persists after physical death, must reside in an Astral Zone harmonious to its composition.
Regardless of everything else, it is basically just an organized mass of vibrational energy on the Astral Sphere, and it will always be drawn to a zone with similar vibrations in order to maintain its structural integrity.
It is here that we can decipher the concepts of heaven and hell more practically.
Souls that are ignoble, negative, and unrefined will consequently find themselves in rougher zones which are suited to host them, while those with more refined and positive souls will find themselves in finer, more pleasant zones.
But I imagine that this is quite a wide spectrum with plenty of nuance in between, which could all be placed under the umbrella of the "Underworld" I suppose. One side of the spectrum will be heavenly, the other hellish, with lots of wiggle room in between - and maybe even other directions altogether (refined but negative, positive but unrefined, etc.).
However, from what I've heard from an old friend who had a brief experience travelling to the underworld, the impression given is that the majority of average humans never really go to any extreme, but linger in some mildly bleak "grey zone" right in between everything else that serves as a sort of "central hub". Kinda resembled some interpretations of Hades I think he said. Darker, but not quite hellish or devoid of light. A little rough, but not absurdly so.
Anyways, outside of the bias of religion, this whole thing is actually quite a logical concept from the occult perspective.
It's not a matter of divine punishment or sanctimonious judgement, but simply a metaphysical matter of harmonious vibrations.
An Astral Body stuck in a zone with vibrations that do not reflect itself will gradually deteriorate and be destroyed by the dissonant vibrations of that zone, or maybe just be transmuted if lucky enough, but fortunately this issue isn't possible under normal circumstances anyways since the Astral Body will rubber-band to a proper zone unless hindered by the intentional usage of occult skills or interference through outside factors. There are also spirits which manage the underworld and look after departed souls, preventing such issues in the first place for the average folk.
Occultists and magical practitioners, on the other hand, tend to have more freedom of movement within the Astral Zones, with the level of such mobility being determined by their own level of development and the capabilities they possess.
Certain practitioners may even be able to complete the rest of their initiation and development after death if they are far enough ahead in their path.
Finally, from what I understand, there are notable exceptions to this vague spectrum of heaven and hell in the underworld, such as zones pertaining to certain religious figures that can be accessed by particularly devout followers after death, as well as the existence of personal offices in the Astral Sphere belonging to adepts who no longer need to reincarnate (but still wish to maintain a presence in the Astral Sphere instead of the Mental Sphere for whatever reason that may be, such as facilitating more direct involvement with the earth-zone).
There's still too much ambiguity and nuance to the whole thing that I don't quite know enough of for my taste, but solving that will have to wait in line with the rest of my to-do list until I have the projection skills necessary for such an endeavor.
From a purely metaphysical standpoint, it is actually a surprisingly sensible idea when taken in hand with the concept of heaven - but only if seen beyond the lens of religious dogma.
It is simple metaphysics that the Astral Body, which persists after physical death, must reside in an Astral Zone harmonious to its composition.
Regardless of everything else, it is basically just an organized mass of vibrational energy on the Astral Sphere, and it will always be drawn to a zone with similar vibrations in order to maintain its structural integrity.
It is here that we can decipher the concepts of heaven and hell more practically.
Souls that are ignoble, negative, and unrefined will consequently find themselves in rougher zones which are suited to host them, while those with more refined and positive souls will find themselves in finer, more pleasant zones.
But I imagine that this is quite a wide spectrum with plenty of nuance in between, which could all be placed under the umbrella of the "Underworld" I suppose. One side of the spectrum will be heavenly, the other hellish, with lots of wiggle room in between - and maybe even other directions altogether (refined but negative, positive but unrefined, etc.).
However, from what I've heard from an old friend who had a brief experience travelling to the underworld, the impression given is that the majority of average humans never really go to any extreme, but linger in some mildly bleak "grey zone" right in between everything else that serves as a sort of "central hub". Kinda resembled some interpretations of Hades I think he said. Darker, but not quite hellish or devoid of light. A little rough, but not absurdly so.
Anyways, outside of the bias of religion, this whole thing is actually quite a logical concept from the occult perspective.
It's not a matter of divine punishment or sanctimonious judgement, but simply a metaphysical matter of harmonious vibrations.
An Astral Body stuck in a zone with vibrations that do not reflect itself will gradually deteriorate and be destroyed by the dissonant vibrations of that zone, or maybe just be transmuted if lucky enough, but fortunately this issue isn't possible under normal circumstances anyways since the Astral Body will rubber-band to a proper zone unless hindered by the intentional usage of occult skills or interference through outside factors. There are also spirits which manage the underworld and look after departed souls, preventing such issues in the first place for the average folk.
Occultists and magical practitioners, on the other hand, tend to have more freedom of movement within the Astral Zones, with the level of such mobility being determined by their own level of development and the capabilities they possess.
Certain practitioners may even be able to complete the rest of their initiation and development after death if they are far enough ahead in their path.
Finally, from what I understand, there are notable exceptions to this vague spectrum of heaven and hell in the underworld, such as zones pertaining to certain religious figures that can be accessed by particularly devout followers after death, as well as the existence of personal offices in the Astral Sphere belonging to adepts who no longer need to reincarnate (but still wish to maintain a presence in the Astral Sphere instead of the Mental Sphere for whatever reason that may be, such as facilitating more direct involvement with the earth-zone).
There's still too much ambiguity and nuance to the whole thing that I don't quite know enough of for my taste, but solving that will have to wait in line with the rest of my to-do list until I have the projection skills necessary for such an endeavor.
Redemption and karma refresh is also a part of this. If you have done bad you might need to descend to hell to get your own inner emotions to get refreshed and integrated into the whole which is you. So in this sense it's a personal process of heaven/hell. Even in trauma working you reside pretty much in hell to get through the experiences and they are not nice.
Redemption and karma refresh is also a part of this. If you have done bad you might need to descend to hell to get your own inner emotions to get refreshed and integrated into the whole which is you. So in this sense it's a personal process of heaven/hell. Even in trauma working you reside pretty much in hell to get through the experiences and they are not nice.
Redemption and karma refresh is also a part of this. If you have done bad you might need to descend to hell to get your own inner emotions to get refreshed and integrated into the whole which is you. So in this sense it's a personal process of heaven/hell. Even in trauma working you reside pretty much in hell to get through the experiences and they are not nice.
"Hell is Desire unfulfilled" - this saying, which I first heard from Joseph Campbell, probably quoting some theologian, has kind of stuck with me over the years. There are just some things in life most people crave and are never destined to have or experience, yet the craving drives them like a metaphorical devil's pitchfork in their metaphorical ass. The thing one cannot have becomes their personal Hell, and this can be projected into an afterworld as much as any sinful transgression or guilt that traditionally leads to damnation. Considering transgression or "sin" - this lack of thing, this "deprivation" is the philosophical evil that drives people to commit acts that have been considered evil, and yet without such actions there would be no motion in the world.
"The whole world is an aeon of Hell" - this from a cranky Zen monk who was probably tired of being asked the same questions which the Buddha would have simply held silence on. The motion of the world, with its variant chaoses, produces a general state of perpetual discomfort in all beings. But it is the taste of "happiness", even for a moment, when we are free from pain which probably gives us the most stark contrast of what can become the potential for Hell. That the greatest of all pleasures is a release from pain has probably formed the inner crux of so many religions who have formulated salvations with the caveat "or else".
Dante gives us nine levels of Hell to contemplate, filled with symbolic torments which unfold like a Tarot spread of moral allegories and consequences. The adulterous lovers swirling in an endless storm, suicides become bleeding trees, apostates buried upside down in shit, sodomites poked in the behind with spears... Of course, the traitors frozen in the last level where the Enemy of God who chews forever on the backstabber of Christ and the murderers of Caesar. These are all symbols which have variants in many cultures that can be contemplated for their moral value and even serve, strangely, as a remedy for some nervous states. It has been said that the greatest pleasure of the saints in Heaven is to witness the torments of the damned in Hell - finally, we have justice.
I once had a long and complex dream, so vivid and real, which gave me a truth. I met the semi-anonymous Lord of Hell, his skin blackened and burned, a walking corpse of smoking fury, and he told me in a thunderous voice that "I AM HERE TO REMIND ALL WHAT IT MEANS TO LIVE WITHOUT GOD."
He showed me a sweeping vista of skinless bodies baking under the rays of a merciless Sun, the Divine Sparks trapped in the eye sockets pecked at by pitiless ravens. I cannot describe the level of dream horror I felt - much is lost in the translation into inadequate words. But the meaning was clear: the Sun above was God Himself, shining with serene simplicity, but the lost souls rotting below refused to join the Light trying to draw them upward. Their suffering was not cruelty of a Divine Will, just a consequence of inevitable process delayed. Instead of letting go, the denizens of Gehenna wallowed in decaying dreams of self pity, clinging to an illusory of existence, completely ignorant of the tormenting Light, clutching their Sparks as if their dead identities were in fact their real beings.
This was just allegory for me, but I do recall I woke up shaking and sweaty, and the mood of that dream hung like a cloud over me for a time.
For entertainment purposes, the movie Jacob's Ladder (with Tim Robbins) has some food for thought, though its like 3 or 4 hours long, depending on the edit. What Dreams May Come (Robin Williams) is a bit more uplifting.
"Hell is Desire unfulfilled" - this saying, which I first heard from Joseph Campbell, probably quoting some theologian, has kind of stuck with me over the years. There are just some things in life most people crave and are never destined to have or experience, yet the craving drives them like a metaphorical devil's pitchfork in their metaphorical ass. The thing one cannot have becomes their personal Hell, and this can be projected into an afterworld as much as any sinful transgression or guilt that traditionally leads to damnation. Considering transgression or "sin" - this lack of thing, this "deprivation" is the philosophical evil that drives people to commit acts that have been considered evil, and yet without such actions there would be no motion in the world.
"The whole world is an aeon of Hell" - this from a cranky Zen monk who was probably tired of being asked the same questions which the Buddha would have simply held silence on. The motion of the world, with its variant chaoses, produces a general state of perpetual discomfort in all beings. But it is the taste of "happiness", even for a moment, when we are free from pain which probably gives us the most stark contrast of what can become the potential for Hell. That the greatest of all pleasures is a release from pain has probably formed the inner crux of so many religions who have formulated salvations with the caveat "or else".
Dante gives us nine levels of Hell to contemplate, filled with symbolic torments which unfold like a Tarot spread of moral allegories and consequences. The adulterous lovers swirling in an endless storm, suicides become bleeding trees, apostates buried upside down in shit, sodomites poked in the behind with spears... Of course, the traitors frozen in the last level where the Enemy of God who chews forever on the backstabber of Christ and the murderers of Caesar. These are all symbols which have variants in many cultures that can be contemplated for their moral value and even serve, strangely, as a remedy for some nervous states. It has been said that the greatest pleasure of the saints in Heaven is to witness the torments of the damned in Hell - finally, we have justice.
I once had a long and complex dream, so vivid and real, which gave me a truth. I met the semi-anonymous Lord of Hell, his skin blackened and burned, a walking corpse of smoking fury, and he told me in a thunderous voice that "I AM HERE TO REMIND ALL WHAT IT MEANS TO LIVE WITHOUT GOD."
He showed me a sweeping vista of skinless bodies baking under the rays of a merciless Sun, the Divine Sparks trapped in the eye sockets pecked at by pitiless ravens. I cannot describe the level of dream horror I felt - much is lost in the translation into inadequate words. But the meaning was clear: the Sun above was God Himself, shining with serene simplicity, but the lost souls rotting below refused to join the Light trying to draw them upward. Their suffering was not cruelty of a Divine Will, just a consequence of inevitable process delayed. Instead of letting go, the denizens of Gehenna wallowed in decaying dreams of self pity, clinging to an illusory of existence, completely ignorant of the tormenting Light, clutching their Sparks as if their dead identities were in fact their real beings.
This was just allegory for me, but I do recall I woke up shaking and sweaty, and the mood of that dream hung like a cloud over me for a time.
For entertainment purposes, the movie Jacob's Ladder (with Tim Robbins) has some food for thought, though its like 3 or 4 hours long, depending on the edit. What Dreams May Come (Robin Williams) is a bit more uplifting.
I have "What Dreams May Come." That movie was epic. I never realized, there was a movie called Jacob's Ladder? I may have to watch that. But, the dream that you had was Incredible.
I've been thinking about this the past couple of days. I know the idea that in Heaven there is supposed to be no want, but I'm struggling to come to a satisfying conclusion on it.
In my life, as you describe it, the "pitchfork" that drives / motivates is what keeps me going, and from experience I know there's so much that I don't even want anymore when I finally got it or am really close to taking it, so in that case I prefer Hell?
Haven't made my mind up yet on how I am to interpret this, but just wanted to say you write very interesting posts.
It's ironic, isn't it? I mean, Heaven is supposed to be complete satisfaction, but how can one draw a conclusion about that which is unattainable in the material world? Hell seems so much easier to imagine. Perhaps this is another type of "pitchfork"?
In my life, as you describe it, the "pitchfork" that drives / motivates is what keeps me going, and from experience I know there's so much that I don't even want anymore when I finally got it or am really close to taking it, so in that case I prefer Hell?
If you love what you do, then maybe it is not so much a case of preferring Hell as it is mastering it?
When it comes to this, for me, I think of images like Julius Caesar weeping before the statue of Alexander the Great because he had yet to conquer; and then of Alexander weeping in India at having nothing left to conquer. One must suffer for one's Art, I suppose, but my own feeling is that my greatest pleasure comes in the act of creation, or doing, not so much the end result of the achieved goal or journey. And yet, this process can be a frustration of unbelievable magnitude, so much so that I am in Hell.
I guess all that would be turning Hell into Limbo. Progress...?
I appreciate you saying that. For myself, I made up my mind never to make up my mind - I try to hold all things in the realm of proposition. All these ideas are malleable, maybe bad for the long-winded. I mean, Hell could just as easily also be fulfillment (like marriage), because...what then?
I have an old copy of the I-Ching which has been with me since childhood, where in a commentary on one the hexagrams it says: "Desire seeks gratification and gratification seeks desire." I like to seal this in the symbol of Scorpio. It traces up and down, up and down...
You and I - may kill ourselves
You and I - go straight to hell
Where they have barbeque and beer
Better than they do up here
And you know all the words to the songs
Yeah - we smoke cigarettes
We dance with the dead
They're soft to the touch
We drink way too much
And darling, I think you'll like it here
You might like it here
You and I - we ain't no saints
You and I - we can see our fates
We'll be the faces in the clouds
We'll be a gospel singer's shout
We'll be the lights from an airplane at night
Hey yeah - I can't stay in my skin
I bin in here too long
But I know where to find, a really good time
And darlin' I think you'll like it here
You might like it here
Everyone is trying
To get into the bar
The name of the bar
The bar is called Heaven
The band in Heaven
They play my favorite song
Play it once again
Play it all night long
[Chorus]
Heaven
Heaven is a place
A place where nothing
Nothing ever happens
Heaven
Heaven is a place
A place where nothing
Nothing ever happens
There is a party
Everyone is there
Everyone will leave
At exactly the same time
It's hard to imagine
That nothing at all
Could be so exciting
Could be so much fun
[Chorus repeats]....
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On a more serious note, I've been reading books by Thorwald Dethlefsen.
, which was recommended by Frater U:. D:., deals with the soul, reincarnation, illness, sin, and redemption. In it Dethlefsen wrote:
Jesus taught redemption by descending fully into mankind, a descent described in numerous images in the Bible. Into darkness came light. That is why we celebrate Christmas, the birth of the light at the time of greatest darkness, the winter solstice. Jesus was born into poverty in a stable, he associated with tax gatherers and prostitutes, endured injustice, torture and death, and descended into hell. Not until man has descended fully into darkness is he ready to begin the upward ascent. This law is the stumbling block of all those who use esoteric teachings as an excuse for the fact that they will not or cannot master their earthly life. As long as man possesses a physical body he is bound to polarity. Every breach or infringement of polarity brings inescapable downfall.
Dethlefsen supports a belief in reincarnation, even going so far as to point out references in the Gospels which indicate that it was a common belief during that time, one which Jesus didn't deny. He wrote another book called Voices from Past Lives about a system of Reincarnation Therapy he worked on in the 1960s. I haven't gotten to that book just yet. I'm currently reading The Healing Power of Illness, which is basically a sequel work to The Challenge of Fate. Regarding his work with Reincarnation Therapy, he wrote:
People often ask whether, on our journey through a series of incarnations, we also pass through the intervening stages between lives and, if so, what do people report about the beyond. Our experiences of the beyond and of the intermediary stages are at the time of writing considerably wider than they were a few years ago, but they are by no means complete. In our therapy we try to pass through only those stages that are relevant for the patient, and we avoid enquiring about things merely to satisfy our own curiosity. This is why our experiences of the beyond are still at a somewhat early stage.
It is difficult to make generally valid statements on this subject since the beyond does not present a homogeneous picture but is just as differentiated as are the different stages of human consciousness. The beyond is an astral world and therefore purely a plane of images where the forms that a soul perceives will reflect the acquired content. The soul of a dead person, by the law of resonance, will reach whatever plane of the beyond corresponds to this soul's level of consciousness. These different levels make it difficult to give a unified picture. It depends on the individual whether the beyond for him is heaven or hell. A deceased will often experience the beyond as a landscape whose appearance and mood will reflect his own quality of soul. One female patient who entered the beyond after a life (very remote in time) as a cruel and powerful ruler, describes it as follows:
"I die a painful, slow and lonely death. Above all I have a horrible fear of death which almost takes me out of my senses. I hear dreadful noises and find myself within a dark sphere, amidst a bizarre landscape. Everything is terrifying, everything is shivering with fear. The landscape is inharmonious, everything is sharp, angular, cold and repellent. It is windy, the air is filled with anguished groaning. Aimless and disorientated, I look for a hole or a crack through which to crawl but find nothing. Even colours are threatening. There are also many other beings, including some that resemble rats. I have to spend an agonizingly long time here, ceaselessly looking for some corner to hide in. The worst thing is that one never gets used to the horror of this place. After a long time I finally find a crack; I hastily thrust myself into it and at the same time am pulled in."
Similarly unpleasant experiences could be related by others who have entered the beyond after a life dominated by greed, cruelty and selfishness. Apart from these cases, the beyond is described as pleasant and beautiful. For example, here is a description given by a dying child:
"Slowly everything becomes lighter, and I begin to float. I am no longer myself, yet I am myself. I can see everything: my mother, my father, the woman and myself in bed. I float higher, up towards the ceiling, then down again until I am near my mother. I stroke her. Then I float up once more and see the house and the garden. Someone is leading me by the hand. It is my grandmother, the mother of my father. She is very sweet to me. She says she is going to take me somewhere and show me everything. We come to a gentle, undulating landscape, and I see other beings. We do not speak, but one can tell what they are saying, and they know what I am saying. This is a place where one feels good and happy. There are soft, light, gentle colours which somehow merge into one another."
Descriptions of the world beyond present a wide variety of scenery, ranging from ultra-horrific wasteland to magnificent countryside. ...
I made PDFs of The Healing Power of Illness and Voices from Other Lives using screenshots of "borrow for one hour" books on archive dot org. I haven't uploaded them to share yet, but I could. There is a PDF of Challenge of Fate based on the translation from that web site linked above that is available on another web site, but I want to create a better PDF and .mobi file for Kindle readers (soon).
SitraAhraGloria, aka Mike Bee once worked with me to summon Ipos and Bime.
He has completed VK Jehannums rites of the Qlippoth as well as the tree of life.
His comment from his patron, Orobas, was that in hell they can be themselves.
Picture angels and God's and goddesses trapped in a box. What do you think they'd do, play Yahtzee?
So, hell can be a very bad place,.unless you were or are a demonolater, in which case you may fare better.
Likely what we view as our afterlife may manifest....
I think in Indian terms hell is in root and sexual chakra. When these two are fullfilled (with sexual dreams that are filling) then you are not in Hell anymore. So in this sense Jebus was right to 'fill up everyone' instead of draining them. So these two frequencies need to be fullfilled in order not to be in Hell.
There was a Robin Williams film where he had to retrieve a suicide victim from hell.
Another movie, Constantine, had a similar theme.
Again, I think hell is what we make of it through preconceived notions, family beliefs, cultural beliefs and our own shortcomings in life. And literature such as Dantes Inferno.
In Judaism, hell does not exist. What does exists is heaven or sheol (the grave).
Most religions have a variant of the hell or sheol idea.
For me personally, hell does not exist. Perhaps, Psychologically on someone individually. They might experience a hell of some sort. But, what are your thoughts?
Christianity hell is what your talking about, basically poorly interpreted and purposely distorted hebrew names and meanings of demons and angels to brainwash the Roman population and if possible the world through colonialism.
In other cultures-religions etc hell totally not the same, its a karmic based dimension and life is all a illusion, we never die..but suicide or deliberate consciously knowing one was murdered puts one in a place like the christain hell psychologically according to oldest cultures (samarian, Buddhism Hinduism etc
