Hi guest! As you can see, the new Wizard Forums has been revived, and we are glad to have you visiting our site! However, it would be really helpful, both to you and us, if you registered on our website! Registering allows you to see all posts, and make posts yourself, which would be great if you could share your knowledge and opinions with us! You could also make posts to ask questions!
The amazing thing is none of these non-corporeal 'things' warned humans about climate change or ai. None of them even gave a head's up about covid (whereas somehow lil ole me psychically knew it would be a worldwide issue right away). The other remarkable thing is that basically everyone just accepts this and doesn't question it. The blinders people wear...
Just maybe- feeling some energy and getting a few results doesn't translate into these things being what every religious person and most occultists think they are.
Forging your own vision, and thus your own path, seem to be the most difficult thing for the human primate. Ok, you can stamp your feet and explain it all away now.
What if the spirit realm has just been anthropomorphized like everything else we touch? Why do we think we are center of everything, including the existence of gods? Maybe they exist outside us, not in spite of, and not dependent on.
@HoldAll had a great question, 'why should they?' and man that makes you stop for a second. What if they dont get involved as much as some of would like, and not enough to bother proving they exist. Maybe they dont require us to believe in order to exist.
What's worse, the gods not existing and the majority being wrong, or that they do exist and dont come to you to prove they exist?
lol Gods, spirits, etc, will (and do sometimes) intervene and help someone in traffic court, but won't give a heads up about existential issues of mankind? I'm finding this rather nonsensical and it gives lie to the 'not a nanny' argument.
The better explanation is these things are egregores.
The 'eminent' Franz Bardon had a spirit tell him about alleged developments in the future regarding dental care, but somehow he and they missed out on all sorts of larger things. This is quite amusing.
I'm obviously aware this cuts completely against the grain of people's emotional attachments and that's fine. It's at least something to contemplate though. I keep saying occultism is really about standing on your own 2 feet in personal development and transforming into an immortal being without needing any outside assistance, but others are satisfied or limited to what the more common forms tell you to do. I don't seek to win a popularity contest or anything like that.
(As far as climate change - guy, you simply don't know what you're talking about. You have a personal vested interest in disbelieving and no amount of data would sway that. And it's more than 60 million they are spending on pumping water. The area is on permeable limestone, and water seeps through that way as the ocean rises. That's why they didn't have to pump the water in the not distant past.)
I keep saying occultism is really about standing on your own 2 feet in personal development and transforming into an immortal being without needing any outside assistance
If you achieved your goal, would you be the first? Would you be completely alone? Would this be because of some kind of spiritual or energetic faculty? Would there not be other beings (gods spirits etc) who would be immortal and living alongside you?
Meh. This kind discussion results from a category error. Of course we are dealing with useful illusions at multiple levels. The 'god' of magic is Hermes, who is a thief, a liar and teller of tall tales.
For many years I've considered fictional characters coming to life is pretty much the core method of sublunar magic (sorcery) and Imablican theurgy . In the older viewpoint, going as far back as Byzantium that we know of, ALL magic was sublunar , which is a separate domain than mind-mysticism-magic of Hermeticism and New Thought. Yeah, we have watch out for the eidolons in the tempetuous astral flux. Standard MO for sorcerers.
In the sublunar world the thought-beings (spirits, daimons) use our stories, myths to take form, names, and interact with us for our mutual benefit, and sometimes detriment. These stories useful conventions for inter-dimensional diplomacy. It's supposed to be fun, in this high-fidelity MMO RPG we are all playing in.
So all the neopagans want to be grand poobahs of really-real things.. and they are real, but not like your bicycle or some bokchoi is real. When dealing with thought-beings , yes, it it more efficacious to treat them as totally what the stories say they are. But they will alwasys be half you (and part of the Story we are all making together).
The other half is The Mystery. What that is "exactly" that is the real crux of the where this kind of argument comes from. That's a theological discussion, not a magical one.
Anway, for aa more breezy read, if folks don't want to read Iamablicus and Patrick Harpur, check out this pretty spot-on new book by paranormal author Joshua Cutchin:
Fourth Wall Phantoms: Reflections on the Paranormal, Narrative, and Fictions Becoming Fact
