[Official] Upcoming changes to the library. Discuss.

[SkullTraill]

Hello,

Newbie here!

I joined the forum while doing some personal research and came across some interesting PDFs from the Library. The SEO of Google effectively surfaces WF Library posts. That’s how I found this place.
I felt it was fair to contribute in order to gain access, so I did. Interestingly, that requirement is also what encouraged me to engage more with the community instead of just downloading what I needed and leaving. Without it, I probably would have done exactly that.

I’m sharing this as a new member to give you some insight into how newcomers might see things, which could be useful for what you’re planning to build going forward.

Thank you for sharing. I think it’s mainly people who don’t care what WF was, is, and will continue to be who, are most upset about the changes. There has been a significant increase in activity and I’m quite happy with the changes. I notice you’re a benefactor, and while the goal was never to get more benefactors, I’m glad to hear you say that becoming a benefactor for a month has made you want to stick around for the month and engage with the community, which is the primary goal! The library was meant to assist and reward active members, and WF was never supposed to be a piracy site.

I hope you continue to enjoy WF!

 

[Lord_Cthulhu]

What incident? salivates

Definitely not a bad idea after that recent incident with the author.

 

[whoami]

At first I disagreed with this as I found it inconvenient, but I think it was a net benefit. As it does indeed encourage forum discussion; and this is an interesting forum and topics anyways, so the more people share the better.

 

[Jumi]

Strange. Registered on the site longer than a week, can't contribute books, and when making a post - I still have no access to the Library. Is there a strict limit on the 50 post count in addition? I am confused.

 

[SkullTraill]

Strange. Registered on the site longer than a week, can't contribute books, and when making a post - I still have no access to the Library. Is there a strict limit on the 50 post count in addition? I am confused.

You’ll only have access for a week since your last post in the occult sections. Your last post in the occult sections before you made this post was on April 7. So that expired. After you posted this, you made another post in the occult sections, so you’ll have access for another week.

Once you have access, you can share a book. If you share a book (be sure it hasn’t already been shared and follows the book shares rules) then you’ll have access permanently.

Also once you have 50 total posts in the occult sections your access will be permanent.

 

[Jumi]

You’ll only have access for a week since your last post in the occult sections. Your last post in the occult sections before you made this post was on April 7. So that expired. After you posted this, you made another post in the occult sections, so you’ll have access for another week.

Once you have access, you can share a book. If you share a book (be sure it hasn’t already been shared and follows the book shares rules) then you’ll have access permanently.

Also once you have 50 total posts in the occult sections your access will be permanent.

Thanks for your response. I suppose what my issue is is that I will apparently meet the criteria, but still have no access. During the week I made my post originally - there was zero access to the Library whatsoever. I'll wait until I have 50 points and hope for the best, I think. Maybe it might solve the issue.

 

[SkullTraill]

Thanks for your response. I suppose what my issue is is that I will apparently meet the criteria, but still have no access. During the week I made my post originally - there was zero access to the Library whatsoever. I'll wait until I have 50 points and hope for the best, I think. Maybe it might solve the issue.

That's not possible, if you make a post in the occult sections, and have been registered for a week, you will get access. I just checked your account and you have access right now since you made a post in the occult sections today. Keep posting once a week (in the occult sections) and you'll continue to have access. You can also make 50 posts (in the occult sections... not just generally) OR share a book that hasn't been shared before and you will have permanent access.

 

[Jumi]

That's not possible, if you make a post in the occult sections, and have been registered for a week, you will get access. I just checked your account and you have access right now since you made a post in the occult sections today. Keep posting once a week (in the occult sections) and you'll continue to have access. You can also make 50 posts (in the occult sections... not just generally) OR share a book that hasn't been shared before and you will have permanent access.

I went and checked and it works this time for most books. Some books are only for certain member levels.
Thanks for checking that out for me, I managed to test on a book and it worked!

 

[SkullTraill]

I went and checked and it works this time for most books. Some books are only for certain member levels.
Thanks for checking that out for me, I managed to test on a book and it worked!

There should only be 2 threads (Grand Library and WF Archive) that are restricted to benefactors. Every other thread should be accessible by every member. At most you have to like the post to view the link.

 

[Jumi]

There should only be 2 threads (Grand Library and WF Archive) that are restricted to benefactors. Every other thread should be accessible by every member. At most you have to like the post to view the link.

I understand. Thank you very much for your help as it's much appreciated!

 

[jovirone]

To be honest... This is shit. Yeah, maybe I'm drunk, but t is what it is .
It makes us autistic people that does not likes to communicate with other humans uncomfortable as hell, forces us to keep posting shit over shit. Or even, posting like 50 shades of shit because you guys doesn't know the basics ( MAKE CLASSES ABOUT MAGICK, PREPARING A RITUAL, WORKING WITH SERVITORS... REALLY THAT EASY... )

AND FORCES US TO SEARCH THROUGH BAD LINKS THAT WOULD EVEN EXCLUDE US FROM LEARNING AND CONTRIBUTING TO MAGICK

THANKS TO YOU, WE WILL NOT PROGRESS SPIRITUALLY.

 

[SkullTraill]

To be honest... This is shit. Yeah, maybe I'm drunk, but t is what it is .
It makes us autistic people that does not likes to communicate with other humans uncomfortable as hell, forces us to keep posting shit over shit. Or even, posting like 50 shades of shit because you guys doesn't know the basics ( MAKE CLASSES ABOUT MAGICK, PREPARING A RITUAL, WORKING WITH SERVITORS... REALLY THAT EASY... )

AND FORCES US TO SEARCH THROUGH BAD LINKS THAT WOULD EVEN EXCLUDE US FROM LEARNING AND CONTRIBUTING TO MAGICK

THANKS TO YOU, WE WILL NOT PROGRESS SPIRITUALLY.

1. This is a forum, a place for public communication.
2. This isn't a piracy site. The library exists as an aid for the members of this forum (communication website).
3. If you don't like to communicate, don't join a forum (communication website).
4. When your one month ban is complete, make a suggestion about the "beginner library" idea. I'm willing to entertain/discuss it.
5. You have fundamentally misunderstood the point of WF. WF exists for people to talk to each other about magick, and occult topics. For people who want to communicate, to communicate. And for people to learn from each other. The library section exists to make it easier for people to look up and read occult literature, and is a privilege for contributing members of the forum, or members who have clearly made some effort to learn from each other, but need a reference/helping hand from a book. It is not a right, it is a privilege. WF does not exist for the purpose of sharing PDFs.
6. There are already plenty of ways to find beginner PDFs online. You are just too lazy to do any work.
7. There's also tons of actual useful content, tutorials and guides on WF, by the grace and hard work of the members. You can try those, ask questions about those, thank those members. By refusing to do that bare minimum before complaining about not being able to access the library, you are discounting and devaluing their hard work. Instead of being obsessed will collecting digital books, to sit on your digital bookshelf and collect digital dust, why not pick an actual goal, and use the generously and freely provided high-quality content on this website to further your goal? If you are just obsessed with collecting, upgrade your account to benefactor and download the massive collections in the archive/grand library threads.
8. Thanks to WF, thousands of people progress spiritually. You will not progress thanks to your own laziness, stubbornness and incompetence.
9. I assume you know and understand all of this, and you're just acting like a fool because you are butthurt. Take a break. Sober up.

 

[esque_ish]

What about amending "at least 1 post in the last week" to "at least 1 post or comment in the last week" ?

You can still insist on higher-quality thresholds to be met for both, but if you're incentivizing fresh community activity, prioritizing posts over comments points to more bloat than engagement.

 

[SkullTraill]

What about amending "at least 1 post in the last week" to "at least 1 post or comment in the last week" ?

You can still insist on higher-quality thresholds to be met for both, but if you're incentivizing fresh community activity, prioritizing posts over comments points to more bloat than engagement.

Thread = making a new
Comment/reply = replying to an existing thread
Thread OR comment = post
Post OR DM/convo OR profile post = message

So there is no such thing as “post or comment”. Post already includes comment. You’re confused between threads and posts.

We already count both new threads and new comments towards the post goals.

 

[קווין]

I'm going to outline an upcoming change to the library. Sometime in the near future, I will be changing the access requirements for the library section. Feel free to discuss and share your thoughts in this thread.

What will change​

There will be minimum post/account age requirements to post in the library, and rather than give a text wall to explain it, here's how the system will check to see if you can access the library:

1. Are you a Benefactor? If yes, you have access to the library, if no:
2. Have you ever posted a book share? If yes, you have access to the library, if no:
3. Have you made 10 [increased to 50] posts in the occult sections (“The Order”)? If yes, you have access to the library, if no:
4. Have you been registered on WF for at least one week? If yes:
   1. Have you made at least 1 post in the occult sections (“The Order”) in the last week? If yes, you have access to the library, if no:
5. If you have none of the above, you do not have access to the library.

So essentially, you need to either have posted at least one book share, made 50 posts in total in the occult sections (“The Order”), been registered for at least one week and made 1 post in an occult section, or be Benefactor in order to access the library.

The individual details may be fine tuned over time.

Why is this happening?​

Two main reasons, firstly, I simply don't want WF to be a file share focused site. It's nice to have the library as a supplement to out discussions, and as a service to help spread as much awareness and knowledge of the occult as possible, but the primary goal is to do that via discussions as a forum. I can see that there are thousands of people per year just joining WF to download books and contribute nothing. While I have no hard feelings about that, the concern is that WF will end up primarily being used as a file sharing site, which it is not, and was never intended to be.

Secondly, I want to encourage more active discussion about occult topics rather than just pointing people towards books. Yes, I understand the concern that this will lead to a spike in low quality posting from people who just join the site and want to spam out the post requirement ASAP to get to the book they want to download, but I strongly believe we can counteract this with measures such as requiring a minimum character count in posts made in the occult section (which is something I've been thinking about doing for a while anyway). Not to mention, we have an extremely competent staff roster, who if they express such a desire, can be expanded with new staff members. I also personally believe that a lot of the people coming on WF looking for specific books are people who are already dabbling in or experienced in the occult, and who aren't contributing because they simply don't have to. I've been made aware by some that we could potentially lose out on some members who would contribute much later on of their own free will after downloading a book from WF, but there isn't strong evidence of that in the metrics (that it would outweigh the amount of people who are introverted or lazy who would contribute if they had to).

Also, if it turns out that this ends up causing more trouble than it's worth, it would be easy to undo and go back to business as usual.

Why allow Benefactors to access the library? Is this a cash grab?​

I assure you no one is going to be paying $4 to download one PDF. This is simply because it would be unethical to bar parts of the site from people who are actually paying to keep WF running.

Is this the makings of a plan to remove the library from WF?​

No, there is no such plan. I love having the library on WF - but to help our members educate themselves on the occult so that we can have more in-depth and meaningful discussions about occult topics to further WF's ultimate goal of being a community that focuses on bringing more people into the occult, and bringing more occult knowledge to as many people as possible. WF is not a library, WF is a forum with a library.

Hey, so I read the rules and this could be on the border between, but ill still ask.
Is it possible to get acess to archive and libary by exchanging knowlage? I could provide with understandings of how things work, the understandings I already posses are well grounded with the logic of this material world, and I can explain well to those who need in an way that an child can understand. Oh ye and I noted few of many researchs I've made and I could provide with current phenomena thats happening that brought me to this forum.
"What I recive I shall give, what I give I shall recive"

 

[SkullTraill]

Hey, so I read the rules and this could be on the border between, but ill still ask.
Is it possible to get acess to archive and libary by exchanging knowlage? I could provide with understandings of how things work, the understandings I already posses are well grounded with the logic of this material world, and I can explain well to those who need in an way that an child can understand. Oh ye and I noted few of many researchs I've made and I could provide with current phenomena thats happening that brought me to this forum.
"What I recive I shall give, what I give I shall recive"

The purpose of the post requirement is to allow people to exchange knowledge or prompts for access to the library. You've been registered over a week, simply post this "knowledge" in the appropriate section and you'll gain access.

 

[esque_ish]

Thread = making a new
Comment/reply = replying to an existing thread
Thread OR comment = post
Post OR DM/convo OR profile post = message

So there is no such thing as “post or comment”. Post already includes comment. You’re confused between threads and posts.

We already count both new threads and new comments towards the post goals.

Thank you for this clarification!