What are your thoughts on free will? Do you believe it exists or not? Curious.

[byte007]

I believe it exists but I think it gets less and less as fear increases in our existence. I think that the Creator/Source is everything all at once and that everything also impacts the Creator/Source's consciousness. Just imagine everything happening all at once everywhere and what that could be like for a consciousness. Of course most want to believe that the Creator/Source can not be effected but if you look at the state of things in our reality it is pretty messed up. In history there is a purge or catastrophe and then a rebirth of sorts. Why would this happen? Why would the Creator/Source have this as a reality instead of no cycle of repetition. That is why I do not like the closed loop infinity symbol. It is repeating over and over again the same thing in a closed loop. i think a straight line with an arrow on each end would be better for infinity in my opinion.
As fear gets higher with humanity, freedom gets taken away as history shows and we are living it and no coincidence that fear is higher than ever in the collective I think. I was thinking that the psychic phenomenon may show this. Why are the true psychic's not always right? Because of free will perhaps? If there is free will the future can not be known completely, there would be probability based on peoples usual choices but if they do not always choose the expected choice, we could not know the future exactly. My take on it. What do you think and why?

 

[Vandheer]

I believe it exists.

Our will isn't neccesarily aligned with our "True Will", from what I understand so far. We are a part of this giant "I", however time and space changes things, which the higher part is not privy to.

There is also the issue of Karma there, which I simply believe to be effect and result.

Maybe I shouldn't have answered these questions before getting into my forties, lol.

 

[byte007]

I believe it exists.

Our will isn't neccesarily aligned with our "True Will", from what I understand so far. We are a part of this giant "I", however time and space changes things, which the higher part is not privy to.

There is also the issue of Karma there, which I simply believe to be effect and result.

Maybe I shouldn't have answered these questions before getting into my forties, lol.

I am guessing you mean our higher self that we are not conscious of as a concept? Could be, I do not believe we could ever understand how karma works if it does exist. It does not seem to make sense based on the patterns. The elite of the world for example are responsible for killing millions of people and for generations they live what most consider amazing lives. Of course we do not know how they feel within but they look content with their path and actions so it makes no sense to me. I think purpose is somewhat set and we have free will within those lines. So if someones purpose is to live long and have success, even if they do negative things it will happen. How they feel about it inside themselves of course is another matter but many are so delusional about their own behaviour that they really do not even think they are negative because they learn to ignore it. A difficult topic to truly know I think. If only we could have access to the Creator/Source's knowledge eh? lol Many have claimed they know but how could anyone truly know, all we can do is look at patterns and make sense of it all. My thoughts.

 

[Vandheer]

I am guessing you mean our higher self that we are not conscious of as a concept

Kind of, you can take one of those pictures of a person that has Tree of Life attached in front of them, for a reference.

I have said effect and result in my first post, but I have meant cause and effect. Thats simply what I believe in.

The elite of the world for example are responsible for killing millions of people and for generations they live what most consider amazing lives.

You think Karma is a punishing mechanism, thats where we differ, at least from what I understand.

If only we could have access to the Creator/Source's knowledge eh?

Wouldn't that be amazing indeed. I suppose we could at least track the patterns of higher planes to get hints.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I certainly believe in free will in terms of "Could I have chosen otherwise?"

People worry about Einstein's four-dimensional 'block universe' because it means that there would be only one, immutable timeline.

But relativity is a classical theory and has not been satisfactorily combined with quantum theory.

In my mind, the easiest way to combine the two is to have a multiverse made up of a huge number of these four dimensional 'block universes' branching in a huge 'tree', if you will.

From 'outside' (if it were possible to view the 'outside') the whole thing would be deterministic, since every possible sequence of events would be frozen in all of the timelines.

But, since we are inside the multiverse, and since tiny changes for a person can wildly affect outcomes (the butterfly flapping its wings etc.) we cannot physically predict what the outcomes of our choices are.

Each path will have a version of you where you made particular choices.

Normally, we are only able to experience a single path at a time. If you had chosen otherwise, you would then be the version of yourself that experienced the outcomes from that choice.

I realise this is difficult and counter-intuitive, but if it was simple enough to put on a T-shirt, I'd be selling T-shirts instead of books

 

[Roma]

Obviously human free will is quite constrained - otherwise we would see a lot of teleporting and time travel without technology.

Some "kingdoms of creation" apparently do not have free will. For example the nature spirit kingdom is sometimes called "the army of the voice" as they are driven into action by the commands of the higher devas.

As for the motivations of the Source of All, I rather doubt that I can fit much understanding of those into an organic brain.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Obviously human free will is quite constrained - otherwise we would see a lot of teleporting and time travel without technology.

Yes, human free will is constrained by the laws of physics

 

[byte007]

Kind of, you can take one of those pictures of a person that has Tree of Life attached in front of them, for a reference.

I have said effect and result in my first post, but I have meant cause and effect. Thats simply what I believe in.


You think Karma is a punishing mechanism, thats where we differ, at least from what I understand.


Wouldn't that be amazing indeed. I suppose we could at least track the patterns of higher planes to get hints.

I don't look at karma as just punishment, I just use that example, I understand the positive aspect of the theory as well for sure. Ya, even if we had access to googles data what we could learn about so many things! lol

 

[beardedeldridge]

IMO - Free will exists. But it does get pretty wonky depending on what level you’re looking from (fp vs 10,000 foot vs 100,000,000,000 light year view).

-Eld

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Why are the true psychic's not always right? Because of free will perhaps?

As I see it, it's because they may not be seeing the timeline they (and the people they share the vision with) end up in.

Also, just like weather forecasting, the chance of divining accurately gets less and less, the further into the future you go, and for the same reasons.

As a wise man once said: "Divine short, enchant long"

 

[Romolo]

I don’t believe in free will. The tarot deck of life is shuffled and we pull cards, one by one, often the same card. Of course, how you deal with those cards is up to you.

Regarding choices, I like the image of Hekate’s crossroads. Each moment is charged with the friction between what was, what is and what is not. Triple head. This keeps you— Magician— very aware, very awake, in a state of alertness and possibilities…

 

[Taudefindi]

We are free to make choices(and which choices we make, despite the lie that many tend to tell themselves that "I didn't have a choice"), the amount of choices and which ones are available to us, however, are another subject.Those are dependable on ourselves as well as on other people's own choices or random happenings.

Our choices are also highly dependable on what we currently know about something(a person, a situation, an event), which is why what might seem like a bad choice now might end up becoming a good thing in the future.Or the opposite.We can only choose based on our own subjective view of reality and our individual pool of knowledge.

 

[Lemongrass00]

When you take into account things such as the time period we are born in, the country we are born in, the parents we are born to and the status we are born to, all of our social conditioning, the incontrollable events that have happened to us that deeply affect our personal filters, and the giant presence of the subconscious that most people aren't even aware exists, much less can understand it, can we ever truly be free? I do not think so, but why does it really matter? Why do you feel the need to be in control? Is that a positive thing?

 

[byte007]

I certainly believe in free will in terms of "Could I have chosen otherwise?"

People worry about Einstein's four-dimensional 'block universe' because it means that there would be only one, immutable timeline.

But relativity is a classical theory and has not been satisfactorily combined with quantum theory.

In my mind, the easiest way to combine the two is to have a multiverse made up of a huge number of these four dimensional 'block universes' branching in a huge 'tree', if you will.

From 'outside' (if it were possible to view the 'outside') the whole thing would be deterministic, since every possible sequence of events would be frozen in all of the timelines.

But, since we are inside the multiverse, and since tiny changes for a person can wildly affect outcomes (the butterfly flapping its wings etc.) we cannot physically predict what the outcomes of our choices are.

Each path will have a version of you where you made particular choices.

Normally, we are only able to experience a single path at a time. If you had chosen otherwise, you would then be the version of yourself that experienced the outcomes from that choice.

I realise this is difficult and counter-intuitive, but if it was simple enough to put on a T-shirt, I'd be selling T-shirts instead of books

I myself think the multiverse is a ruse. Another deception as we get closer to the truth. I know in physics things point there but in the past things also pointed to things that turned out to be not what they thought. I think the Creator/Source hides the most important truths from everyone except maybe one. I think many believe the "one" shows up being reincarnated and the ruling elite always want to kill him or her. All the messiah's and main profits in the ancient texts I think are a rendition of this "one" who gets the knowledge. I think some have given the important knowledge but the rulers ignore it because they don't like it because it means they do not rule anymore so they believe deceptions from the "darkside" of the Creator/Source and do the opposite to what should happen. Imean look at what they have and are doing with the place! I think they must believe that person does not have any knowledge they want but I think many others do. All kinds of interesting theories out there for sure.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I myself think the multiverse is a ruse. Another deception as we get closer to the truth. I know in physics things point there but in the past things also pointed to things that turned out to be not what they thought. I think the Creator/Source hides the most important truths from everyone except maybe one. I think many believe the "one" shows up being reincarnated and the ruling elite always want to kill him or her. All the messiah's and main profits in the ancient texts I think are a rendition of this "one" who gets the knowledge. I think some have given the important knowledge but the rulers ignore it because they don't like it because it means they do not rule anymore so they believe deceptions from the "darkside" of the Creator/Source and do the opposite to what should happen. Imean look at what they have and are doing with the place! I think they must believe that person does not have any knowledge they want but I think many others do. All kinds of interesting theories out there for sure.

Maybe the "one" is the one who can truly navigate the multiverse

As far as physics is concerned, if you are insistent on there being only a single universe, then you end up with Carlo Rovelli's 'Relational Quantum Mechanics' where nothing is real unless it is in relation to something else. This is not normally a problem as everything is in relation to everything else through entanglement. I can see why that point of view might be attractive to magicians.

I, myself, would prefer real things to actually be real, and this cannot be compatible with quantum physics unless you have a quantum multiverse.

 

[byte007]

Maybe the "one" is the one who can truly navigate the multiverse

As far as physics is concerned, if you are insistent on there being only a single universe, then you end up with Carlo Rovelli's 'Relational Quantum Mechanics' where nothing is real unless it is in relation to something else. This is not normally a problem as everything is in relation to everything else through entanglement. I can see why that point of view might be attractive to magicians.

I, myself, would prefer real things to actually be real, and this cannot be compatible with quantum physics unless you have a quantum multiverse.

I see what you are saying but quantum physics isn't reliant on a multiverse.

TheB.AI


Quantum physics doesn't inherently rely on the existence of a multiverse to be relevant. Quantum mechanics is a fundamental theory that describes the behavior of matter and energy at the atomic and subatomic levels. It provides a framework for understanding phenomena such as particle-wave duality, superposition, and entanglement.
While some interpretations of quantum mechanics, such as the many-worlds interpretation, suggest the existence of a multiverse as a consequence of quantum phenomena, the relevance of quantum physics is not contingent on the existence of a multiverse. Quantum mechanics is highly relevant in various fields, including technology, materials science, and computing, regardless of one's stance on the multiverse hypothesis.

As far as "the one" being able to navigate the multiverse if there is one, that is some Marvel Loki stuff going on there! lol Glorious purpose eh? lol They just want the purpose dead I think but they make it look like he takes the Creators place so to speak which makes no sense to me in any perspective, not even possible I would think... I saw what they did there in that show. Great show though, entertaining... What if even quantum physics is all a veil of deception to see what we want to, as our reality is. We experience it so it is real, no simulation. A simulation would mean it is all a sham but we do experience it as real so it is. I think therefore I am, he was on to something there. Of course in a contradiction we do not exist in the physical simultaneously which is why the smaller the particles we can see seem to have not much there eh? buzzing around fast with nothing but air around them but yet pull back and it seems solid as an object. A clue that things are not as they seem. Our universe is similar in a parallel no? Not much there but space with tiny rotating balls spiralling in the beauty of existence! 200 years ago they thought they had it figured out...lol Of course now many think we do as well...lol Maybe we will get to see in our life times some new discovery that proves things weren't as we thought, like the double slit experiment proved... Fascinating though for sure.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I didn't say that qusntim physics was dependent on a multiverse; I said that if you want quantum phenomena to be real in your interpretation of quantum physics, you need a multiverse.

 

[byte007]

I didn't say that qusntim physics was dependent on a multiverse; I said that if you want quantum phenomena to be real in your interpretation of quantum physics, you need a multiverse.

I see, I think though that things such as quantum physics is us trying to explain how things work in a way we can make sense of when it is all an illusion while at the same time it isn't. We think in terms of the physical so we can be bias. Can consciousness be quantified? Measured? Everything in physics is measured. You are far more up to date in the physics field of study then myself by the sounds of it, that is awesome, I can learn some stuff from your thoughts for sure. What I am getting at is that we always think we understand when we learn new possibilities but often later we find it is different still then we thought. We sure can manipulate this reality with the perceived knowledge we have that's for sure. Look what our reality is like though. I think if there is multiverses, they are irrelevant to us as we need to figure out how to live rationally enough in this one! lol I never discount a multiverse concept, how could I, I have no way of knowing for sure, no one does truly unless they experience another universe and that could even be an illusion. If one meditates or takes a psychedelic and has a trip and experiences another universe or something like that, is it real? They may believe it is and maybe it is but we have no way of knowing for sure. After all, our existence could be a figment of the Creators imagination all going on in the Creators mind so what is real? How do you quantify it? Maybe the Creator just gives us answers to our questions to appease us but eventually the answers become to not make sense because of the need for contradictions for reality to exist, which means reality is not only rational to begin with. This means we may never find rational answers to our questions. Down the rabbit hole...lol What do you think?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

The 'finding things were not as we thought they were' is literally what the scientific method is all about. You have an explanation, you find out it isn't quite right, or you find a simpler explanation that still covers all the things the previous explanation did. Then repeat.
I say 'explanation' instead of theory because a theory isn't much use if it doesn't explain anything.
This is your (and many scientists) objection to the multiverse.
And this is why I talk about the multiverse; because I can use it to explain quantum physics in a way that isn't so confusing as the normal version, and provide a model of reality where magic is a natural consequence rather than some weird loophole.

Post automatically merged: Dec 4, 2023

Lots of magicians (and a few scientists) say that reality is not rational. I would at least like to have a stab at it before giving up.

 

[byte007]

The 'finding things were not as we thought they were' is literally what the scientific method is all about. You have an explanation, you find out it isn't quite right, or you find a simpler explanation that still covers all the things the previous explanation did. Then repeat.
I say 'explanation' instead of theory because a theory isn't much use if it doesn't explain anything.
This is your (and many scientists) objection to the multiverse.
And this is why I talk about the multiverse; because I can use it to explain quantum physics in a way that isn't so confusing as the normal version, and provide a model of reality where magic is a natural consequence rather than some weird loophole.

Post automatically merged: Dec 4, 2023

Lots of magicians (and a few scientists) say that reality is not rational. I would at least like to have a stab at it before giving up.

Well put. I don't discount the multiverse theory, I just don't believe it with confidence is all. Theories do try to explain things but often what we think based on experimentation and measuring changes when new data is entered. I just know new data could show up to change that line of thinking. You know a lot about it and I appreciate that. I am not saying that I think existence is irrational and that's it. I think it is also rational at the same time so I guess we can choose our half full or half empty glass analogy in that perspective. You get me thinking for sure, much appreciated, I love to think.