What are your views on hell?

[Accipeveldare]

There are various exercises on YouTube and also certain really good books related to it.

You can also read the book by Gene Heart - Beyond Dreaming - An in-depth guide on How to Astral project & Have Out of Body experiences. We have it here in the library

Thank you very much. I'll take a read

 

[JGVDRG]

Personally, I've heard many perspectives on the subject of hell. However, my personal belief on it comes from a book called The Diabolicon. The gist is pretty much that it is basically what you make it to be and that since it is away from god you must make peace in the chaos by yourself. This is pretty much Chaos magick when you think about it knowing that it pretty much makes hell what you believe it is.

In my humble opinion, Hell is just an amalgam of various energies and forces of collective suffering. It exists as a point in reality, much like any non-material realm (astral planes, symbolic planes if they exist), but constituted mainly by a clusterfuckery of disgrace and everything that is miserable about existence. An energetic convergence that, if you go into there, you will be simply in a state of relentless disturbance.
Much like we suckers fell for the incarnation dream, some suckers fall for Hell much like an addict lives miserably in a hellscape of a crack den (like in a guilt trip, for instance). Nobody stays there forever, though, because I don't think anything stands forever. As anything, everywhere, there are alchemic processes to be completed, elements to be created and motives for a soul to be there. As in anywhere.

About demons and devils, I like to view them as the following:

• Demons are entities that concentrates the force of knowledge and the principles of the Gnosis attainable by the alchemic processes of Hell.
• Devils are beings that thrives in Hellish energies and they are assholes, of course. Like that clown (Violator) from Spawn, you know? They're there to laugh at your misery.

I really do believe there are points in reality where the extreme energetic polarities converge into one giant cluster. Hell, Heaven, etc. are what we call these polarities. Some people believe that morality and merit plays some role here, but I don't think so.

 

[Sabbatius]

Culturally, Hell has multitude of variations and dimensions, from a place of eternal rest in comfort to eternal punishment encompassed by a Lake of Eternal Tormented Fire. To others, it is simply the grave, whether eternal or just a site where the body decays.

My personal take is that it is not a place of punishment. This was a concoction of Zoroastrian influences adopted by early Christian Sects that eventually gave birth to the whole arena of Good vs. Evil duality necessary to complete the Christian Cosmology.

 

[Zander]

I believe some version of it exists, but it's nowhere near what the church teaches. The mainstream vision of hell is an instrument the church uses to control the masses through fear. They frighten us into submission. There is punishment for the wicked, but it's not a cookie-cutter deal like we were taught.

 

[Ohana]

The concept of hell in hinduism called Naraka is interesting to me. It has punishments for people that exactly match what they did in an ironic twist.
Dante Inferno when I read kind of felt as if it was just needless suffering way less organized. Like if anyone has wrath issues they all go to the same place. But wrath manifests in a lot of different ways.

Naraka also is not eternal to most people which kind of makes sense. If reincarnation was a thing then it doesn't make sense to most people there forever since they can reincarnate.

Hell in hinduism then becomes a terrible resting point for the soul before its time to reincarnate. If there is a hell I'll believe in that one since eternity for non-eternal actions doesn't make sense to me.

Not just because the actions don't fit for what was done. But because If someone's stuck somewhere eternal eventually that just becomes their day to day. Its no longer punishment after a certain amount of time. They just get used to it. Then Hell would just eventually become a place where souls linger around. They stop caring.

So even eternity would just eventually become eh. Reincarnation would actually keep hell or Naraka as a place of punishment.

 

[Firetree]

Hell ; continuous cycles of ignorant rebirth , getting nowhere and never learning the lessons or evolving and continually having to re incarnate here in a world that gets worse and worse each decade .... year .... month ...

Hell ; a temporary cycle of postmortem experience - before 'the second death ' where two things can happen ;

1. You have a 'need' to experience the concepts of hell you held during your life and/or to enact any guilt / punishment scenarios you have been programmed with .

2. A tour through an 'exhibition of Hell ' ;

When you die , you might go to hell .
Its a strange exhibition ,
rooms like cells or cages
where people are trapped
and are endlessly having to
perform the sins they committed
in life .

Here , in one exhibition
are furniture designers
that made crap products
they have to sit on chairs
that dig into their backs
and sleep on uncomfortable beds
that never give rest .

In the next room are bureaucrats
they will not be there long
they are on their way to heaven
but first have to fill out the forms
in triplicate
and provide documents
that require other documents
which require certificates and records
and annotating and stamping
by officials
who are currently on holidays

In one room is a man
that always argued about everything
he is on an operating table
having emergency surgery
which has stopped
while the doctors argue
not even about a point of procedure
because the argument has
devolved so far
that now the argument is about
what the argument was supposed to be about
in the first place .

Just look and walk on
dont be too repulsed or fascinated
you might get drawn into it .
Just walk on and accept
that many others
are caught in their own version
of hell.

 

[𝕳𝖊𝖑𝖑𝖋𝖎𝖗𝖊]

Hell is where demons live.

 

[Ohana]

Hell ; continuous cycles of ignorant rebirth , getting nowhere and never learning the lessons or evolving and continually having to re incarnate here in a world that gets worse and worse each

Just look and walk on
dont be too repulsed or fascinated
you might get drawn into it .
Just walk on and accept
that many others
are caught in their own version
of hell.

I don't want to walk on. If everyones caught on their own version of hell then thats not my version if hell. I won't be affected. I could just help them up. Thats it. Its literally that simple.

And if they have to learn a lesson then someone can just teach it to them. Literally. Or I guess learn on their own.

 

[Thékla]

I both don’t believe in it, and fear it deeply in my soul. This is the trauma of the Osirian aeon writ large.

 

[Accipeveldare]

I would like to follow up on this, since this thread is more active lately. My belief has changed. Nowadays, to me hell is just a prison you create for yourself. You create it, maintain it and you can break free from it too. It is not eternal damnation it is the here and now. I see hell as more a state of mind than a dimension.

 

[FireBorn]

To me Hell is a fear based creation for control. I dont believe in it. I walked away from the Abrahamic, and that includes the spiritual Hell concept.

I am with the others who describe a shitty life, or a state of mind as hell. We can create that without the Abrahamic chains.

I will 100% know the moment I die. Until then, I have shit to do here.

 

[Firetree]

I don't want to walk on. If everyones caught on their own version of hell then thats not my version if hell. I won't be affected. I could just help them up. Thats it. Its literally that simple.

And if they have to learn a lesson then someone can just teach it to them. Literally. Or I guess learn on their own.

My advice needs to be taken in context of that period between the first and second deaths , in an astral realm of life reflections where aversions and attractions and expectations are played out . of course, I am not suggesting that the here and now physical suffering of others is some type of zoo that we are not involved in .

So whatever ... spend as long as you feel you need to , doing whatever you now think you would need to . . . it will not last as the 2nd death must be gone through, eventually .

- see ; 'The Tibetan Book of the Dead ' -

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:44 PM

I both don’t believe in it, and fear it deeply in my soul. This is the trauma of the Osirian aeon writ large.

Indeed ! The revelation of Nuit can heal that trauma though .

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:48 PM

I would like to follow up on this, since this thread is more active lately. My belief has changed. Nowadays, to me hell is just a prison you create for yourself. You create it, maintain it and you can break free from it too. It is not eternal damnation it is the here and now. I see hell as more a state of mind than a dimension.

Yeah . One of my fav lines from 'Dr Faustus ' ; Faust trying to trick Mephistopheles ; by giving him an inescapable paradox , he will be relieved of his contact ...

Faust ; '' You say you are imprisoned in hell and cannot escape from it ? ''

M ; '' True .''

F ; '' Aha ! Yet here you are , right in front of me ! ''

M ; '' Dear Faustus ..... this is hell , nor is there anyway out of it . ''

 

[MorganBlack]

Just jumping in here to ask ya'll to please not lump us Folk Catholics in with the Protestants and Muslims.

Their version of Hell is vastly more similar to each other than to ours.

See Jonathan Pageau, who is a Canadian Orthodox Christian, talking to an atheist here, dispelling the fundamentalist's version of Hell.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

For me, most of the time, Hell is a metaphor for a state of being that anyone who is suffering enters.

In ritual, it is literally a harsher location of the Underworld (formerly called Hades) that is also a part of our universe. It is a place anyone who is suffering enters, and the only way out is by reconnecting with the fundamental Love flowing through the universe.

In Brujeria, summoning some spirits like Anima Sola (the Lonely Soul) is easier done when one is 'in Hell' - meaning you are in a state of great suffering. You "are" where she lives. It is a state of mind and a place. And a place that is a state of mind.

 

[Ohana]

Faust ; '' You say you are imprisoned in hell and cannot escape from it ? ''

M ; '' True .''

F ; '' Aha ! Yet here you are , right in front of me ! ''

M ; '' Dear Faustus ..... this is hell , nor is there anyway out of it . ''

They kind of sound like Bert and Ernie or Statler and Waldorf.

In Brujeria, summoning some spirits like Anima Sola (the Lonely Soul) is easier done when one is 'in Hell' - meaning you are in a state of great suffering. You "are" where she lives. It is a state of mind and a place. And a place that is a state of mind.

That is interesting because I noticed when I was in a state of suffering more spirtual things started to happen to me.

I'm not that afraid if their is a hell because I know/think I know nothing lasts forever even hell or hell like situations. And if I get into circumstances that are bad then I can just keep moving forward. I don't know if their actually is an actual hell place though. I don't think there is. I think theres just a resting place for souls.

Won't know for sure I guess.

Post automatically merged: Today at 4:13 AM

The spirtual things I don't if they were for the best for me if I'm being honest but they happened

 

[Firetree]

They kind of sound like Bert and Ernie or Statler and Waldorf.

Hmmm ... do they ? To me they kind of sound like deep philosophical musings from one of humanity's classic books on the subject ... also taken from two perspectives (as there are two versions of the story ; Marlow and Goethe .

But I dont suppose anyone is interested in learning about that ?

I also don't suppose anyone wants to examine the concept of hell itself, where it came from, how it developed in time and related to the psyche of those people at the time ... I mean it is the whole underpinning of most of the magic people practice on this forum (in essence ) . Why and how so ? I don't think I will answer that here ... unless someone wants to know why .

Otherwise .... carry on with Sesame Street .

That is interesting because I noticed when I was in a state of suffering more spirtual things started to happen to me.

Here is one view on that ;

'' ...

2. Thou then, who hast trials and troubles, rejoice because of them, for in them is Strength, and by their means is a pathway opened unto that Light.

3. How should it be otherwise, O man, whose life is but a day in Eternity, a drop in the Ocean of time; how, were thy trials not many, couldst thou purge thy soul from the dross of earth?

Is it but now that the Higher Life is beset with dangers and difficulties; hath it not ever been so with the Sages and Hierophants of the past? They have been persecuted and reviled, they have been tormented of men; yet through this also has their Glory increased.

4. Rejoice therefore, O Initiate, for the greater thy trial the greater thy Triumph. When men shall revile thee, and speak against thee falsely, hath not the Master said, "Blessed art thou!"?

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I'm not that afraid if their is a hell because I know/think I know nothing lasts forever even hell or hell like situations. And if I get into circumstances that are bad then I can just keep moving forward. I don't know if their actually is an actual hell place though. I don't think there is. I think theres just a resting place for souls.

That is all sound philosophy and healthy for you too . Considering the vastness of the Universe and the vastness of its' potential spirituality , the ideas of hell as eternal torment and punishment ... to the modern person, that can begin to visualize such vastness , seems (at least ) unbalanced .

Won't know for sure I guess.

Post automatically merged: Today at 4:13 AM

The spirtual things I don't if they were for the best for me if I'm being honest but they happened

 

[MorganBlack]

In my view, engaging with the myths of Hell (the state of mind and the place) makes no sense unless you have a philosophy about the alleviation and triumph over suffering. Without that, it serves little purpose. And "Hell" is kind of my thing.

I don't think it is useful to walk around with the concept of Hell decontextualized from the healing of suffering, bearing what you can't change. When talking about transmuting suffering, it should Something major and beyond unbearable - not a stubbed toe or hurt feelings over being denied another sugar bomb. The death of a loved one, someone dear to you being murdered, a psychopathic corporations, or other great loss

The myths and stories around Hell are one of the ways we mediate and help heal the human experience of suffering. Catholicsism has a very well developed Underworld theology, that is simply missing from most moderno-pagan operating stories. If fact Hell is Catholicism's killer app.

Modern esteroicsts will talk about the 'Dark Night of the Soul' but that is appropriating Catholic mysticism without giving honor to the sources. It originates with the 16th-century Spanish mystic, poet, and Carmelite St. John of the Cross, who describes as a period of spiritual desolation where a person feels abandoned by God and stripped of all previous comforts of the senses - the "sugar high" of intellect, faith and ego.

Christianity almost makes no sense without Hell. The Harrowing of Hell is, in my view, a may be preservation of the myth of Orpheus and his descent into Hades, but then "elevated" for all humankind.

Right now is Lent. Catholics meditate on our own death, and find ways to resolve suffering through embracing Love. Honestly, Christianity makes no sense whatsoever without the story of Christ's descent into Hell and overcoming suffering.

Personally, even though it is Lent, I don't walk around thinking about Hell and death. But there have been times of great suffering, the But ceremony is how we learn to heal trauma and overcome it. Modern Paganism does it through focusing on personal strength and the Hero's Journey through the overworld. Christianity does it through love, and the Hero's Journey through the Underworld.

 

[juanitos]

Christianity almost makes no sense without Hell.

Btw..there is an orthodox saint from 20th century- Saint Silouan of the Holy Mountain after weathering a Dark Night of his soul for many years saw Christ again in a vision and asked Him what he should do to stay close to Him. Christ told him to keep his mind in hell, but not to despair.

This is a fantastic metaphor full of depth...

 

[MorganBlack]

A bit more over coffee. The point of Hell is to learn to leave it.

So modern paganism is downstream from Crowley and Thelema, so I am adding this here for those who are sympathetic, as I am, to The Book of the Law.

A Thelemic interpretation of Christ is revealed in The Book of the Law, decoded by the English Qaballa, and maps to what I said above, Christ is the mirror opposite modality to Horus. And in the context of overcoming suffering, and extreme challenges-where-you-are-taking-damage they map very cleanly to:

Horus = The Overworld Hero
Christ = The Underworld Hero

They represent a sort of Yin-Yang dynamic in the cosmos, as articulated by The Book of the Law and decoded by the English Qaballa. Both have their place. I am sure this will alienate everybody

I will add here, especially when a child or very young, Hell and the Underworld are not healthy to focus on. Christianity a very heavy trip and not for children. Go "be pagan" - throw yourself into life, enjoy, learn Force and Fire and the strength of your arms. When you lose - and you will sometimes lose, and bads thing to happen - and enter Hell, there is remedy there as well.

This is from The Magickal Language of the Book of the Law by Cath Thompson, which I highly recommend for an Thelemic reading of Chris, especially within the context 'defeating' Hell through Love.

Jesus is mentioned in Liber AL is in Ch. III v.51,
“I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.” Note that the
present tense of the word ‘HANGS’ means that he still hangs on the cross.
This is quite precise, Jesus hangs on the cross throughout all eternity, as
Spirit is forever crucified upon the Cross of Matter. The speaker is
identified with Horus of the Hawk’s head, and since the word PECK has
the same value as POWER the phrase can be read “I power (at) the eyes of
Jesus,” meaning that Horus is a factor of resistance against the eyes of
Jesus. Of course at the same time this is the very impediment that causes
the phenomenon of those eyes to exist, for it is only by resistance (what
Dion Fortune described as “the thrusting block of the engine”), that any
phenomenon can occur, and without it all energy will just pass on through
until it does find something to react against.

Therefore Christ is the formula whereby the
personal ego of a god is to be revealed. The Christ or “stele of revealing
itself” is the star that reveals the nature of itself, or unveils the personal
ego of a god. The supreme self of IT, the supreme self ITSELF, is revealed
by the Stele. That phenomenon that reveals the perfection of all
THINGS(=81) is the hidden Christ.

45 is also the value of HORUS. Man must
experience and become Horus before he can be of Christ. HORUS = 45 =
I AM. Man must develop for himself a discreet identity peculiar to himself
to become Christ. He must be able to say ‘I am unchangeable and thus a
God’. The way he does this is to follow all the ways of Love through
Christ: “there is no bond that can unite the divided but love,” (Liber AL
Ch.I v.41).

 

[System Error Message]

to me hell is a place to contain, not so much to torture, not where demons live. It does not contain sin, but contains threats.

 

[gerardobraham]

In my opinion hell is here with us. We decide if we make our lives hell or work towards making it heaven. The devils and "fallen" spirits have ever been here with us.