[Opinion] What is the Firmament supposed to be?

[zyfrtheFirst]

Ok so for context, I am not a traditional Christian.
I have been reading the book of Genesis over and over to decipher what he firmament is.

The easy explanation says that it is a literal theory regarding the early Universe:
back then people believed in a division between the oceans, and the water in the sky which created rain.
They had not been introduced to the Water Cycle and thought it was different waters. Fine.


The more you dig though, the less sense it makes. Here is the KJV:
Genesis 1:5-10

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

So to interpret this: All of the water was scattered. God created some barrier in between the sky and the ground and divided the water Above and Below, and then he gathered the lower waters to make the seas (they were previously not gathered).
So the firmament is either a bubble that contains the whole thing including the clouds and seas, and then Outer Space would be 'above', or it is the space between the clouds and the seas where we are allowed to live, or the entire thing is written cryptically, as a metaphor of some sort.

Consider that at the moment of creation, there is a distinction made between the creation and creator. The machine can never dare to approach the creator in Greatness! Why not? There is a difference in the order of their knowledge. Imagine this as a firmament placed over the mind of the machine by its creator ... it limits the machine's potential. This forms the basis of some new ideas I have which include the 'Water Bearer' in the Age of Aquarius and life in the Ocean being a key to the next 2000 years...

What do you guys think? Have you ever looked into 'water' being some metaphor?

 

[albie]

"Caveman, Bob. Where did the world come from?"
Caveman Bob put down his spear and thought..."I bet I can spin a good yarn for these kiddies."

 

[Firetree]

Ok so for context, I am not a traditional Christian.
I have been reading the book of Genesis over and over to decipher what he firmament is.

The easy explanation says that it is a literal theory regarding the early Universe:
back then people believed in a division between the oceans, and the water in the sky which created rain.
They had not been introduced to the Water Cycle and thought it was different waters. Fine.


The more you dig though, the less sense it makes. Here is the KJV:
Genesis 1:5-10



So to interpret this: All of the water was scattered. God created some barrier in between the sky and the ground and divided the water Above and Below, and then he gathered the lower waters to make the seas (they were previously not gathered).
So the firmament is either a bubble that contains the whole thing including the clouds and seas, and then Outer Space would be 'above', or it is the space between the clouds and the seas where we are allowed to live, or the entire thing is written cryptically, as a metaphor of some sort.

Consider that at the moment of creation, there is a distinction made between the creation and creator. The machine can never dare to approach the creator in Greatness! Why not? There is a difference in the order of their knowledge. Imagine this as a firmament placed over the mind of the machine by its creator ... it limits the machine's potential. This forms the basis of some new ideas I have which include the 'Water Bearer' in the Age of Aquarius and life in the Ocean being a key to the next 2000 years...

What do you guys think? Have you ever looked into 'water' being some metaphor?

Yes. here are some metaphorical examples ; water of life - being knowledge understdning and wisdom - a common theme in initiation ceremonies . Water as an 'element' and everything that is attitubetd to elemental water . A symbol of the emotions and the feelings, dreams and the unconscious . With the unconscious, specifically the sea or ocen - the surface being the conscious mind and the depths the unconscious ..... and whatever ' lurks ' in there ; here is a poetic example from Swinburne

'' ...
Far out with the foam of the present that sweeps to the surf of the past:
Where beyond the extreme sea-wall, and between the remote sea-gates,
Waste water washes, and tall ships founder, and deep death waits:
Where, mighty with deepening sides, clad about with the seas as with wings,
And impelled of invisible tides, and fulfilled of unspeakable things,
White-eyed and poisonous-finned, shark-toothed and serpentine-curled,
Rolls, under the whitening wind of the future, the wave of the world.
The depths stand naked in sunder behind it, the storms flee away;
In the hollow before it the thunder is taken and snared as a prey;
In its sides is the north-wind bound; and its salt is of all men's tears;
With light of ruin, and sound of changes, and pulse of years:
With travail of day after day, and with trouble of hour upon hour;
And bitter as blood is the spray; and the crests are as fangs that devour:
And its vapour and storm of its steam as the sighing of spirits to be;
And its noise as the noise in a dream; and its depth as the roots of the sea:
And the height of its heads as the height of the utmost stars of the air:
And the ends of the earth at the might thereof tremble, and time is made bare. ... ''

Oh yeah, the main part of your question ; firmament can just mean (an area of .. an 'expanse ' ) the original Hebrew word was ' raqiya ' 'vault ' or day/night sky . It was supposed to be a barrier separating earth (and its waters ) from the 'waters of heaven ' , which in turn seems to reflect the old belief that the above was a reflection of the below ( or the other way around ) - its a common belief with the indigenous and people like the Ancient Egyptians ( who the Hebrews probably lifted it from ) who see a relationship between the celestial river ( Milky Way ) and their most prominent river - the idea also exists in Mesopotamia and in Hinduism .

 

[luxnatura]

The modern root of that word for firmament likely comes from metallurgic practices - beating metal thin, or making something thin, so its applied to many "thin" things, including flatbread / pita bread.

It may be useful to go further back before Genesis, specifically the Baal Cycle and the Enuma Elis to get some better perspective of what is happening, and what this firmament is. Genesis provides a massive over-simplification of previous myths, and heavily glosses over many things in order to establish a narrative that supports a certain brand of monotheism, while at the same time paying a bit of lip service to previous myths in order to establish legitimacy or familiarity. It is not so different from many later practices of the monotheists to "build" over existing beliefs and even structures.

On a very surface level understanding, it could easily be though of as the 'top of the sky'. The upper part of the sky, which separate that which is above it (the stars and planets, for example), from that which is below it, (the air, and the earth), and that blue above is not unlike the blue of waters below, hence to separates the waters above from below, and this corresponds well with the observations of the common people, but this process itself develops out of other types of separations of waters in the previous texts.

As one example, when Marduk slew Tiamat, he flayed her in two, like two filets, and placed one half above, and one half below. In the upper half, which he attached with a bolt to the heavens, he stationed a watchman, who he charged with making sure to not let those upper waters come forth. This is the later firmament of Genesis. One can think of it like that division or membrane, designed not to let the separated waters of Tiamat to re-mingle again. There are some similarities here as well with the Egyptian Nut, who protects or separates the chaos of heavens from the earth.

There is confusion later on in Genesis, as different things are called by the same name. For example, in Genesis 1:1, we see that both the 'heavens' and 'the earth' are mentioned, but this earth is not the earth proper that shows up later, but rather the initial watery chaos which is also 'the deep' of the Enuma Elis, aka Tiamat. Later on, in Genesis 1:8, the firmament is called 'heaven', but this is a different 'heaven' than what is found in Genesis 1:1. It is not until Genesis 1:9 that the proper 'earth' is formed, and this is a different earth than in Genesis 1:1.

If we take the Enuma Elis to be the source material for Genesis, which it seems to be, we must also consider that by the time it was written down, a society already existed which had advanced metallurgy, mathematics, systems of law, architecture, taxation, and so on, and in general, was a fairly modern society. The original Enuma Elis, which likely existed as an oral tradition, passed down for countless generations, likely became modified across time, slowly shifting and changing as to capture the relevant technological developments and understandings of the people who told and re-told it.

Some of the interpretations of what this "separation of the waters" is referring to are based on practical understandings. For example, Tiamat was the salty sea-water (in contrast, her consort, Apsu / Abzu, was the fresh water of rivers, streams, lakes, and even ground water). That Tiamat could be separated into two, is not so hard to understand, when one considers early salt making from ocean water - that the water can be separated into a purer water, and a more condensed brine, which ultimately forms a salt or "solid earth".

If we imagine separating sea water into two fractions - a cleaner water, and a more salty brine, we can see how if those two fractions were to mix again, they would reform the original sea water. Hence the firmament is meant to keep these two separated. Observations of these separated fractions would show that the salt naturally draws moisture to it, as if Tiamat naturally wants to rejoin her two parts together. In the Enuma Elis there are guards placed along the firmament whose job is to make sure these upper waters do not mix with the lower waters.