What is the greatest peril faced by all practitioners, regardless of path, from which all other perils arise and how do you show up for it?

[Lucien6493]

And yes, it goes quite without saying that we can define, or redefine, peril in any way that we want and that our praxis answers to that, but I was going for the most neutral term for "magick going off the rails", shy of the sad state of throwing invisible bananas at flying monkeys. The real dangers on the path it seems to me arise out of our commitment to digging holes that we then blithely fall into as though we had no idea they were there, let alone that we dug them ourselves. The way this question was put to me I will leave aside for the time being. So, again...what do you see as the greatest peril of occultism in any form and how do you show up for it?

 

[Beyond Everything]

The biggest peril is pursuing paths that don't really lead anywhere (which is most paths). And then at death you vanish into nothing.

 

[deci belle]

All paths are the same— they all lead nowhere. It is essential that one follow the path with heart. The path with heart will strengthen you. Any other path will dissipate your potential (paraphrased from a statement by Don Juan Matus).

In one's affair with Power, one aught to advance the fire of illumination where there is none, then acquiesce at the right time, maintaining a subtle continuity of awareness, subtle concentration. Advance the fire, then withdraw the fire; alternating without neglecting the potential's development.

If one is able to advance, yet is unable to withdraw, such is the recipe for disaster. It comes down to oneself alone.

 

[Angelkesfarl]

And yes, it goes quite without saying that we can define, or redefine, peril in any way that we want and that our praxis answers to that, but I was going for the most neutral term for "magick going off the rails", shy of the sad state of throwing invisible bananas at flying monkeys. The real dangers on the path it seems to me arise out of our commitment to digging holes that we then blithely fall into as though we had no idea they were there, let alone that we dug them ourselves. The way this question was put to me I will leave aside for the time being. So, again...what do you see as the greatest peril of occultism in any form and how do you show up for it?

"The greatest danger in all the spiritual sciences is not when nothing happens; rather, it is when you find yourself in the midst of everything. At that moment, you must either be a Sage (Hakim) who does not worry, possessing the heart of a knight who does not fear and the awareness of a scholar who does not compromise—or you will be the evening's feast. I do not want you to be afraid, but beware.

 

[FireBorn]

I immediately thought of delusion. Believing your own myth, slipping off the ledge and losing touch with reality. I have seen practitioners slip like that, and then keep falling. They touch something real, something powerful, get addicted and forget to ground. Its damn hard to watch.

I haven't ever seen anyone come back from it the same. Its that shit that keeps me focused on staying grounded and continuing to integrate.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I immediately thought of delusion. Believing your own myth, slipping off the ledge and losing touch with reality. I have seen practitioners slip like that, and then keep falling. They touch something real, something powerful, get addicted and forget to ground. Its damn hard to watch.

I haven't ever seen anyone come back from it the same. Its that shit that keeps me focused on staying grounded and continuing to integrate.

It was this forum that taught me the word 'mageitis' for this

'Failing to negotiate Chapel Perilous' gives them a few too many airs and graces for my liking

 

[HoldAll]

Delusion, seconded. Seeing connections where there simply aren't any, being easily seduced by simplistic fiction-inspired narratives when drawing one's conclusions, falling for false symmetries and polarities and cramming everything into haphazard correspondence structures until the pip squeaks, valuing the superficial aesthetics of one's favourite systems over its actual content, ignoring scholarly works about history in favor of an idealised idea of the past gleaned from dubious book by spaced-out occultists, the list goes on and on. "No one can fool you like yourself", as I always say.

 

[Morell]

Seconding delusions myself. We are supposed to work our will in the world, but can easily lose sight of when it is proper and when it is not.

In fact, I would say that we can also fall victims of our own success. If magic works for you this and that way, you can get convince that it will work every time, and on everything. Can end in trap of trying over and over again infinitely, ignoring the fact that it still doesn't work.

 

[stalkinghyena]

Running afoul of the delusions of others... that's always a kicker

 

[Jhary-a-Conel]

It can make you act like a real dick.

 

[stalkinghyena]

Swedenborg tells this tale where he went to Hell and met a particularly foul demon. It was all dripping with blood and rotting flesh and ichor, etc. Upon questioning, the demon admitted it had once been human, but upon death it became the Emperor of the Universe and described its dominion over all suffering with wicked grandeur.
Swedenborg asked it, "But what did you do in human life?"
The demon said, "I was a janitor."

 

[Sedim Haba]

The same for all spiritual pursuits, in one word: Dogma
(it leads inevitably to sunk-cost fallacy)

 

[Kepler]

we can define, or redefine, peril in any way that we want and that our praxis answers to that, but I was going for the most neutral term for "magick going off the rails", shy of the sad state of throwing invisible bananas at flying monkeys.

With no physical issue then that's a fear response to an imagined threat using real magical tools available in their sandbox. Unfortunately, psychically not harmless, but largely localized. This seems recoverable from for a person. Meaning it can be mitigated with self-reflection and change. Accepting any consequences and avoiding recurring. It's not necessarily a permanent state unless the person makes it so.
This would imply a greater threat would be the inability to self-reflect and live in denial to change with the universe.

 

[Aldebaran]

My initial reaction was to say 'Ego,' but that is superficial and an easy answer because ego gets blamed for everything. In this case, I think it is false too.

I believe 1000%that the biggest peril in the occult is misunderstanding.

Misunderstanding of the text, the interpretation, the intent, your purpose... every aspect of the occult. Taken separately, they are misunderstood. Put all these misunderstandings together, and you end up with a mess.

This leads to countless frustrations, thinking magick doesn't work, quitting the practice, etc

 

[AlfrunGrima]

Things I have seen and at the end a personal pitfall because of everyone has his/hers own pitfalls. (and we should have because of the opportunity to learn from)

• Quitting because of not having the immediately results
• ignoring history and make an own fake history
• people who are thinking that they getting magical attacks all the time
• People who are denying parts of our existence and emotions
• people who are not having their thoughts in good order and acting out of anger
• Not keeping track of things so don't having clear what is happening. (yes, it's me)

 

[MorganBlack]

What are the greatest perils? At least in the U.S., that’s easy- the spiritual bypass that often happens in fringe communities.

Without trying to be a killjoy, which is maybe just as bad... from a couple of decades watching total interpersonal devastation - broken families, lack of personal hygiene, activities that border on spouse and child abuse, a lack of self-discipline, and a lack of accountability (all wrapped in a 1960s paisley, crunchy-hippie aesthetic, shudder ) - in US pagan and occult circles, the "danger" is getting caught up in a culture that excessively prioritizes emotional dysregulation over self-control. This leaves the individual with nothing to say "no" to their worst impulses, and provides no means to hold the psychopaths and narcissists accountable who have taken over our institutions, and much of our culture and sub-cultures.

There is no danger if you treat all of this as "Works of the Imagination" (which also does not mean that are 'not real') while still holding to a firm set of ethics. However, the prevalence of drugs and LSD in occult culture (thanks Robert Anton Wilson for much of that, and I like RAW) has led to far too much ego-depatterning. You need to hold onto enough ego to say: "Hey, maybe not running stoplights, or peeing on the nice carpet is a good standard to hold onto."

 

[pruner_tipster]

Im not sure there’s a single greatest danger. I think there are a handful (or maybe 3) that keep popping up in different systems

Post automatically merged: Today at 7:32 PM

What are the greatest perils? At least in the U.S., that’s easy- the spiritual bypass that often happens in fringe communities.

Without trying to be a killjoy, which is maybe just as bad... from a couple of decades watching total interpersonal devastation - broken families, lack of personal hygiene, activities that border on spouse and child abuse, a lack of self-discipline, and a lack of accountability (all wrapped in a 1960s paisley, crunchy-hippie aesthetic, shudder ) - in US pagan and occult circles, the "danger" is getting caught up in a culture that excessively prioritizes emotional dysregulation over self-control. This leaves the individual with nothing to say "no" to their worst impulses, and provides no means to hold the psychopaths and narcissists accountable who have taken over our institutions, and much of our culture and sub-cultures.

There is no danger if you treat all of this as "Works of the Imagination" (which also does not mean that are 'not real') while still holding to a firm set of ethics. However, the prevalence of drugs and LSD in occult culture (thanks Robert Anton Wilson for much of that, and I like RAW) has led to far too much ego-depatterning. You need to hold onto enough ego to say: "Hey, maybe not running stoplights, or peeing on the nice carpet is a good standard to hold onto."

I just finished Quantum Psychology by RAW and have recently read a few of his books. Quite fun. Leaving reality tunnels can be fairly straightforward with the right tools. It’s dipping back in and/or recognizing when the people youre interacting with are in a different reality tunnel (and deciding whether to translate) is a touch more difficult than “sitting with Mother Aya”

 

[MorganBlack]

I just finished Quantum Psychology by RAW

Great book! I got tons out of it around age 19, which is just about the right time. After that, you sort of have to "make things your own" and go deep - which I encourage everyone to do with their own stuff, hopefully without going either full narcissist nor full nihilist, which I think are both dangers.

Regarding dogma. I say run with whatever you're smoking. Just come out of it occasionally to talk with the rest of us, and be sure not to run all the stop signs.

Re: the dysregulation. I’m not trying to be too mean here. That was directed at the Europeans who did not grow up with this stuff and might look at it through rose-tinted glasses. I know to those in more traditional, conservative countries, American-style paganism sounds super great, the "do whatever" and "free love."

And I’d say those folks could probably benefit from some of the Southern California (1930s to 1990s) arts culture where all that super loopy material comes from and was drip fed into the global over-culture : sci-fi, comics, the space program, and pulp fiction men's adventure stories. Think of Ray Bradbury, who was friends with Jack Parsons. There is a neat stuff there, but there are also negatives. But it will localize differently for you all in other cultures.

For a snapshot of 1960's to 2025 (very 'Neptune in Pisces' , with two main cycles, the last one which is now ending) Boomer Occultism, see Peter Grey's excellent unpacking of a key thread that run through that mess:

Taking the Abyss trip
Grady McMurtry’s Caliphornia dreaming

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[pruner_tipster]

Great book! I got tons out of it around age 19, which is just about the right time.

Woulda saved me a lot of grief if someone handed that to me when i was 19. Or 25…

 

[ragingmagus]

Moving onto big stuff after skipping through foundational stuff.