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What is the relationship between Humans and Spirits?

Nana

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This forum is clearly geared towards magic usage and that's admirable, but every magician and priest find themselves crossing paths with the ephemeral world. It has many names and many ideas on how one should relate to it and why.
For myself I chose Vodou because it deals with the how's and why's with a historical lens on both sides of the Veil and sets up the context for current and future interactions; innovation supported by precedence.
What do you believe the relationship between humanity and the spirits are?
What philosophical or moral compass guide your behaviors?
And how did your philosophical/moral framework measure against the reality of the spiritual world?
What, if any, innovations did your interactions with the spirit world inspire?
 

Mider2009

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in Kabbalah Gods Angels, are above us but we have the potential to become like them...not God but his angels. So IMO the spirits are here to to guide and test us.

and demons, etc are just other creations...they are just higher on the food chain
 

Nana

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in Kabbalah Gods Angels, are above us but we have the potential to become like them...not God but his angels. So IMO the spirits are here to to guide and test us.

and demons, etc are just other creations...they are just higher on the food chain
So the relationship, specifically with angels, in your opinion, is either instructive or adversarial; whereas demons are just skinless apex predators who's favorite delicacy is angel eggs. Is this, clumsy but accurate?
I'm flippant not to be disrespectful but to dumb it down to my maturity level.
 

Mider2009

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So the relationship, specifically with angels, in your opinion, is either instructive or adversarial; whereas demons are just skinless apex predators who's favorite delicacy is angel eggs. Is this, clumsy but accurate?
I'm flippant not to be disrespectful but to dumb it down to my maturity level.
No, demons feed off us, or our energy. And some spirits supposedly can become solid and then incorporeal.
but not all demons are evil
 

Frater Dag

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It has been my experience that every human being has their own spiritual ecosystem similar in some ways to the microbiome. There is symbiotic relationship between people and spirits. Most people are completely unaware of this relationship, just like most people are unaware that they have a symbiotic relationship with the 3 lbs. of bacteria that they have in their guts.

Morally speaking, I try my best to do no harm (or at least as little as I can). I don't curse people (I could) or curse spirits. I did once ask the spirits for justice before that did lead to the individual being severely beaten and hospitalized. Had I known that this would happen, I'm not sure I would have asked.
 

SkullTraill

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It has been my experience that every human being has their own spiritual ecosystem similar in some ways to the microbiome. There is symbiotic relationship between people and spirits. Most people are completely unaware of this relationship, just like most people are unaware that they have a symbiotic relationship with the 3 lbs. of bacteria that they have in their guts.

Morally speaking, I try my best to do no harm (or at least as little as I can). I don't curse people (I could) or curse spirits. I did once ask the spirits for justice before that did lead to the individual being severely beaten and hospitalized. Had I known that this would happen, I'm not sure I would have asked.
Well said.
 

Mider2009

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It has been my experience that every human being has their own spiritual ecosystem similar in some ways to the microbiome. There is symbiotic relationship between people and spirits. Most people are completely unaware of this relationship, just like most people are unaware that they have a symbiotic relationship with the 3 lbs. of bacteria that they have in their guts.

Morally speaking, I try my best to do no harm (or at least as little as I can). I don't curse people (I could) or curse spirits. I did once ask the spirits for justice before that did lead to the individual being severely beaten and hospitalized. Had I known that this would happen, I'm not sure I would have asked.
Yes, ancestors, guardian angels, whatever you wanna call it
 

Kronus

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@Mider2009
All demons are malicious by default. Although demons will help the magician greatly, there is always some harmful or adverse aspect in calling them. This is, of course, a baneful power whose force need not necessarily be directed towards the magician.
The full potency of demonic influence is revealed when they are assigned a particularly sadistic task. With demons, destruction of some sort is guaranteed.

when working with them, the magician must avoid the follies and assumptions that would bring this destruction upon himself rather than it being directed at some outside target.
A glance through the description of demons and their abilities shows that they are not all harmful by intent, nevertheless, they are still harmful by nature.
 

Frater Dag

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All demons are malicious by default. Although demons will help the magician greatly, there is always some harmful or adverse aspect in calling them. This is, of course, a baneful power whose force need not necessarily be directed towards the magician.
The full potency of demonic influence is revealed when they are assigned a particularly sadistic task. With demons, destruction of some sort is guaranteed.
I have been working with Gemory, Foras, and Bune for 5 months now. I speak with them and pay them every week. This has not been my experience so far, but I suspect that a person's experiences are connected with the person's personal spiritual practice.
 

Kronus

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I have been working with Gemory, Foras, and Bune for 5 months now. I speak with them and pay them every week. This has not been my experience so far, but I suspect that a person's experiences are connected with the person's personal spiritual practice.
Thank you for telling your opinion on the subject.
I will quote my own post “ This is, of course, a baneful power whose force need not necessarily be directed towards the magician. “

You might experience it and you might not. I think it has a lot to do with the way you interact with the demon. If you start summoning the demon right away and start demanding things, you will feel the wrath. But if you approach it with respect, you’ll probably be fine. You mention that you bring offerings every week, which is a massive sign of respect and probably a reason why the demon has not been malicious towards you. But yes, it is in a demons nature to be malicious and harmful. - but at the same time, they can probably choose on who and when to be malicious and harmful. They are wise old beings, not crazy psychos.
I noticed that you also mentioned you asked a being for justice and the person ended up being beaten up and hospitalized. Was this entity a demon?
 

Frater Dag

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I noticed that you also mentioned you asked a being for justice and the person ended up being beaten up and hospitalized. Was this entity a demon?
The spirits that I asked for justice were not demonic. This person came with a group of people to my home in the middle of night, woke us up, and harassed my family. They were using alcohol and other drugs. I worried that they would come back and do it again.

I treat the spirits of the Lesser Key like hot spirits. I treat them with respect and I always keep my word. I suspect that I have a reputation among the spirits for always honoring my word.
 

Nana

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I suggest that humans are not the center of Existence. Perhaps the entities humans call demons have natural functions that generally do not relate to humans
An astute observation. There are spirits whose innate nature is caustic to humans; spirits of vacuums, cognitive or pathetic dissolution, unrestrained growth or magnitude, and so much more.
Ultimately, humanity is a race of balance, UNIMAGINABLE COSMIC POWER!!!!!! ittiy bity little living space. Spirits on the other hand are largely single issue entities.
Spirits that help us move within our limits or to broaden those limits so that we may grow larger are healthy. Spirits that disregard or cannot operate within our human limits will eventually harm us regardless of intent. I suspect demons are of this category and I know for certain there are spirits that are. These are the spirits that traffic most often with the aze or malefici.
 
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