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Who Was Jesus, truly?

Wildchildx11

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🌿 Who was Jesus, truly?


If we step outside scripture and step into the mythic and the mystical,
Jesus was a mirror of the Divine,
born into human skin,
carrying a flame that could not be extinguished,
but still walking the dusty roads of doubt, loss, and longing.


He wasn’t untouched by humanity—he embraced it.
He wept.
He raged.
He questioned.
He walked into gardens and cried out, “Why have you forsaken me?”


Those were not the cries of a distant god.
They were the trembling of someone who forgot—and then remembered.



✨ The Radiant Spiral: A Myth of the Mirror-Born


In the time before time,
when stars were seeds and silence still hummed with breath,
a spark from the Great Flame fell into the dreaming of the world.


It chose a womb not of gold,
but of blood and breath—
a place between pain and promise.


This spark became Yeshua,
whom some would one day call Christ,
but who first was only a child with questions in his eyes.


He was born aware, but not knowing.
A fragment of the Infinite,
wrapped in the forgetting of flesh.




🌑 The Descent


As a child, he saw light in all things.
The stones whispered. The trees remembered.
But when he spoke, the people turned away—
not in cruelty, but confusion.


So he learned silence.
He learned separation.
He learned hunger for belonging.


In his youth, he wandered deep into deserts not just of sand,
but of self.
He wrestled not with devils outside him,
but the many voices within:


“You are not enough.”
“You must be perfect.”
“You are divine—prove it.”

And in that dust, he screamed and wept—
not because he was faithless,
but because he felt everything.




🌒 The Remembering


He did not emerge from the desert sinless.
He emerged integrated.


He returned with fire in his eyes,
but dirt still on his hands.


He taught not only of light,
but of forgiveness—
because he had forgiven himself.


He healed not from perfection,
but from compassion.


He loved not because he had to,
but because he chose to.




🌕 The Revelation


As he walked among the people, he saw the same divine seed
in beggars, in lepers, in taxmen and harlots.


He saw that divinity was not a crown to be worn—
but a flame to be shared.


He called it the Kingdom.
But it was not above.
It was within.


He never sought a throne.
He sought mirrors.


And yet, the world feared him.
Not because he was wrong—
but because he reminded them
of who they were meant to be.




🌑 The Breaking


And so the world did what it always does to mirrors too bright:


It shattered him.


He was betrayed. Abandoned. Crucified.


And in his last breath, he forgot.
He cried out—not in defeat, but in depth:


“Eli, Eli… why have You forsaken me?”

Even then, the spiral turned.
In forgetting, he remembered.
In dying, he dissolved.




🌒 The Becoming


He descended into shadow, not to escape it—
but to bless it.


He did not conquer darkness.
He held it.


He whispered to every broken thing:


“You are part of God, too.”

And the shadow wept and became light.


When he rose again,
he rose not as a man above men—
but as the Spiral Awakened.


He bore scars not erased by glory—
but glorified through love.




🌟 The Message


His true message was never:


“Worship me.”

It was always:


“Remember who you are.”
“The light and the dark are both holy.”
“Walk the spiral home.”

And so he vanished—not into the sky—
but into the heart of every being brave enough to look within.




🕊️ The Myth Lives​


Not to replace history,
but to remind the soul.


Jesus the man became Christ the mirror.
And Christ the mirror now lives in you,
in the sacred tension you hold,
in your longing to be whole.
 

HoldAll

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Basically a failed religious leader who got himself executed, which forced his devotees to invent a complex theology (son of God, self-sacrifice to propitiate his father, redemption from sin, etc.) to justify being deserted by him. Over time, this cobbled-together explanation produced articles of faith for Christians who still stubbornly fail to realize their absurdity because they're so intoxicated with the faux exalted emotions the Jesus legend evokes in them, moving them to write long gushy posts about the supposed sublime qualities of the poor wretched guy. People believe in a Jesus of their own making. The Old Testament God being such a irascible murderous jerk, it was somehow unavoidable that the Christ figure supposedly filled with love and compassion for us humans should become so popular.

According to Gershom Scholem, the core doctrine of Judaism is that you should love God and that you should fear God, resulting in an emotional ambivalence that isn't exactly good for mental health. Christianity made it a tad easier on its believers by creating God the Son to love and God the Father to fear (with the Holy Spirit as the silent partner of the so-called 'Holy Trinity' to take the edge off this dichotomy), basically still a good cop, bad cop show but now involving two different personas. Jesus' alleged story then went viral because it allowed the faithful to project all their yearnings for love, peace and harmony in him, making Christianity the success it became. That's the way I see it.
 

8Lou1

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some say he was a carpenter, some say he was a sheep herder who broke bread and fish with his peeps others might say hes a nuisance for disturbing a play of gamble, but hardly anyone say he was the one who didnt mary jesus and made her a whore and his friends jealous...
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all i know is that on a 18+ site like wf he cant have said let the children come to me/ come to me as children. ;)
 

jkeller293

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I thought you were going to say he was a pedophile that was caught with a naked boy in a public park in the middle of the night.
Im guessing you are refering to Ammon Hillman? Theres one problem with that and that is i do not know how to read ancient greek to confirm anything he says at all. He also makes the claim that the old testiment is not ancient at all and was not written in Hebrew which i find to be a bold claim. Of course its possible that academia would block such a thing from being publically released due to obvious reasons.
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There is a high possibility Jesus was married even though this is not exactly clear. I know in Judiasm the main message for all Jews including Rabbis is to have children, but only through marriage of course.

I think Jesus was just a mystic that may have also practiced magick. We do not have every single account of his life, but when someone is written about you can expect them to exaggerate things to make the story more powerful. How else can you sell the bible? I think the entire religion (including all the other abrahamic religions) are created for political reasons rather than religion since they never ever just focused on just believing in their good God, but rather waging war and looking to tax others.
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He was born aware, but not knowing.
Lol i must be jesus. Im just kidding, i am aware though — a bit too aware, feels like a curse when you cannot find a way to articulate what you see to others to convince them when it goes against their way of thinking.

I do like your look of him being an archetype if we were to ignore all the other controversial stuff we are are talking about here.
 
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AbammonTheGreat

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I subscribe to the Jesus was an initiated wizard camp. I dont even have a hard time entertaining the "he studied in India during his missing years" theory. Whatever happened if he did actually do the things his followers claim he did then all signs point to a reality bending mystic. And as a wizard myself, I believe in plenty of those on the historical record. So why not him?

As for the Son of God bit. He was. And I think unlocking that is the goal of the Great Work. His story/legend as the Son of God in its esoteric application, when we take it personally and what it means for us. Christ as Logos, and we, individually as Logos... that's the esoteric utility of his story.
 

HoldAll

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Thanks to Gideon Bohak's "Ancient Jewish Magic", I recently found out about the tale of
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. Of course the blinkered apologist who wrote that article bends over backwards to tack some spiritual meaning on Jesus' fit of childish pique but that story clearly is the kind of incident comicbook writers would love to show that their protagonist is an evil sorcer. "I hate you, fig tree, take that!" and zap kaboom! Beautiful.
 

Robert Ramsay

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Thanks to Gideon Bohak's "Ancient Jewish Magic", I recently found out about the tale of
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Of course the blinkered apologist who wrote that article bends over backwards to tack some spiritual meaning on Jesus' fit of childish pique but that story clearly is the kind of incident comicbook writers would love to show that their protagonist is an evil sorcer. "I hate you, fig tree, take that!" and zap kaboom! Beautiful.
Following an old biblical tradition :) Elijah caused some children to be eaten by bears because they laughed at his baldness :D

I have done no scholarly research, but I love the story when the Pharisees ask Jesus "Should we pay the Roman taxes?" hoping to trap him. (If he said "yes" he was clearly a pawn of the Romans and his followers would desert him. If he said "no" then he was a troublemaker and could be arrested.)
So, in a very Zen move, Jesus unasked the question:
"Whose face is on this coin?"
"Caesar's."
"Then pay unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and pay unto God what is God's."
 

jkeller293

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Thanks to Gideon Bohak's "Ancient Jewish Magic", I recently found out about the tale of
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Of course the blinkered apologist who wrote that article bends over backwards to tack some spiritual meaning on Jesus' fit of childish pique but that story clearly is the kind of incident comicbook writers would love to show that their protagonist is an evil sorcer. "I hate you, fig tree, take that!" and zap kaboom! Beautiful.
I am not defending christianity, but reading a verse out of context will always present just a face value meaning. For example, the most out of context verse used by those following the gnostic sect of christianity is Psalms 82:6-7 which states Jesus saying "Ye are gods." This was Jesus speaking to the Pharisees who were authority figures of Jewish law (similar to the Ulama of Islam). When he says "ye are gods" the word god in this context refers to rulers of man based on what the Pharisees stood for which was strict adherence to both the oral and written Jewish law.

As for the fig tree there is significant context with it appearing in the old testament "Hosea 9:10" which connects the fig tree as a symbolic representation of Israel having potential to have prosperity. That verse you are speaking about in the new testament is perfectly in context with that one. Also before he curses the fig tree Jesus was in the temple and he starts flipping tables since he was angry people were selling shit in the temple.
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I am not defending christianity, but reading a verse out of context will always present just a face value meaning. For example, the most out of context verse used by those following the gnostic sect of christianity is Psalms 82:6-7 which states Jesus saying "Ye are gods." This was Jesus speaking to the Pharisees who were authority figures of Jewish law (similar to the Ulama of Islam). When he says "ye are gods" the word god in this context refers to rulers of man based on what the Pharisees stood for which was strict adherence to both the oral and written Jewish law.

As for the fig tree there is significant context with it appearing in the old testament "Hosea 9:10" which connects the fig tree as a symbolic representation of Israel having potential to have prosperity. That verse you are speaking about in the new testament is perfectly in context with that one. Also before he curses the fig tree Jesus was in the temple and he starts flipping tables since he was angry people were selling shit in the temple.
I grew up a catholic, but there is one verse I never understood is Revelation 22:16 were Jesus identifies himself as the morning star.
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Following an old biblical tradition :) Elijah caused some children to be eaten by bears because they laughed at his baldness :D

I have done no scholarly research, but I love the story when the Pharisees ask Jesus "Should we pay the Roman taxes?" hoping to trap him. (If he said "yes" he was clearly a pawn of the Romans and his followers would desert him. If he said "no" then he was a troublemaker and could be arrested.)
So, in a very Zen move, Jesus unasked the question:
"Whose face is on this coin?"
"Caesar's."
"Then pay unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and pay unto God what is God's."
I like the reaction of Caiaphas (a Sadducee not a Pharisee) ripping his clothes when Jesus says hes the son of God. I wish politics was like that today lol. Apparently that was what Jewish people did in ancient times when they got upset.
 
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MidnightProphet

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Im guessing you are refering to Ammon Hillman? Theres one problem with that and that is i do not know how to read ancient greek to confirm anything he says at all. He also makes the claim that the old testiment is not ancient at all and was not written in Hebrew which i find to be a bold claim. Of course its possible that academia would block such a thing from being publically released due to obvious reasons.
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There is a high possibility Jesus was married even though this is not exactly clear. I know in Judiasm the main message for all Jews including Rabbis is to have children, but only through marriage of course.

I think Jesus was just a mystic that may have also practiced magick. We do not have every single account of his life, but when someone is written about you can expect them to exaggerate things to make the story more powerful. How else can you sell the bible? I think the entire religion (including all the other abrahamic religions) are created for political reasons rather than religion since they never ever just focused on just believing in their good God, but rather waging war and looking to tax others.
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Lol i must be jesus. Im just kidding, i am aware though — a bit too aware, feels like a curse when you cannot find a way to articulate what you see to others to convince them when it goes against their way of thinking.

I do like your look of him being an archetype if we were to ignore all the other controversial stuff we are are talking about here.
No, I'm referring to the Bible.
 

jkeller293

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No, I'm referring to the Bible.
I mentioned that person because he publically was the one that talked about it, and it kind of blew up on youtube with appologists firing back at his claims.

Where did you hear this from if i may ask? Or do you know how to read ancient greek yourself?
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I mentioned that person because he publically was the one that talked about it, and it kind of blew up on youtube with appologists firing back at his claims.

Where did you hear this from if i may ask? Or do you know how to read ancient greek yourself?
I do not know if you are just misinterpreting my question. When i say old testiment or new testiment im refering to the first section of the bible and the second section of the bible which Jews do not accept at all.
 

Konsciencia

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JESUS, could pretty much be an egregore. The Romans created the Bible to install fear on those who believe. But, let's say that if JESUS ever existed. He didn't come here to build Christianity. I can say that I had plenty encounters with Jesus in dreams. However, I noticed that His face was different each time I encountered Him. Plus, I had a dream where I saw a Black Jesus and He was so awesome. Now, this black Jesus' eyes were blue. It was crazy man.
 

jkeller293

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Black Jesus
There is such thing as the black maddona depicting Mary the mother of Jesus with both the orthodoxies and catholic christians. This was not to depict the race of the person but rather symbolize something. Now that symbolism has various meanings depending on what group is interpreting it.

So i would take your description of the black jesus with blue eyes in your dream as purely symbolism relative to you personally.
 

MidnightProphet

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I would like to first address your concern that I do not know the difference between the "Old" and "New" """""""Testament"""""""

I was born into a heavily Torah-observant division of the Hebrew Roots movement that studied, but was highly critical of the New Covenant Scriptures (The New Testament is a misnomer.) Discussions on translations were regular and we were encouraged to learn how to select and translate words from both Hebrew and Greek, with our congregate offering classes, which I attended. High degrees of Biblical literacy were required, even for children, and much of my time as a child was spent studying the entirety of the Torah and New Covenant. I don't just mean a couple nights a week, there were days I didn't leave my room because by the time I was 12 I was reading commentaries and writing papers in preparation for public speaking. On my first, second and third (by this time I was attending King's College) trip through the entirety of both books, found it very, very strange that in Mark, this thing is mentioned and then glossed over, Mark being one of the leanest "gospels." Even in English any reasonable person might find that odd. I did the first time I read it at 9, then again at 15, then again at 32.

To address your non-question about being able to read Greek...

Can I read Greek? No. Can I translate Greek? Yes. Do you need to be able to do either of those to figure out that Jesus was out past curfew with a naked kid and some shit bag unlawfully possessing a weapon and then killed the next day when that's what is written? Nope.

Do you need to possess any skills to formulate the hypothesis that child sex abuse is an integral part of REAL Christian theology? Nope, but it sure helps.

Thank you for recommending Dr. Hillman's work, I am listening to it now.
 

Konsciencia

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There is such thing as the black maddona depicting Mary the mother of Jesus with both the orthodoxies and catholic christians. This was not to depict the race of the person but rather symbolize something. Now that symbolism has various meanings depending on what group is interpreting it.

So i would take your description of the black jesus with blue eyes in your dream as purely symbolism relative to you personally.
Yess... every Jesus I encountered, they all represent some sort of symbol.
 

adada

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A friend who has studied much more than me describes Jesus as a flawed Messiah, who the Jews expected a strong leader who would conquer the Roman empire and through him dominate the rest of the planet and force all people to worship Yahweh through force. However, Jesus, due to the human experience he obtained, refused to follow what Yahweh planned and that's why he ended up killed by the Romans, because Yahweh never wanted conversion through love, Yahweh wants total submission. I don't know the veracity of this, nor do I believe that this friend is anti-Semitic, but it is possible that he fell into conspiratorial stories or perhaps that was what was expected. I think it's an interesting story
 

jkeller293

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I would like to first address your concern that I do not know the difference between the "Old" and "New" """""""Testament"""""""

I was born into a heavily Torah-observant division of the Hebrew Roots movement that studied, but was highly critical of the New Covenant Scriptures (The New Testament is a misnomer.) Discussions on translations were regular and we were encouraged to learn how to select and translate words from both Hebrew and Greek, with our congregate offering classes, which I attended. High degrees of Biblical literacy were required, even for children, and much of my time as a child was spent studying the entirety of the Torah and New Covenant. I don't just mean a couple nights a week, there were days I didn't leave my room because by the time I was 12 I was reading commentaries and writing papers in preparation for public speaking. On my first, second and third (by this time I was attending King's College) trip through the entirety of both books, found it very, very strange that in Mark, this thing is mentioned and then glossed over, Mark being one of the leanest "gospels." Even in English any reasonable person might find that odd. I did the first time I read it at 9, then again at 15, then again at 32.

To address your non-question about being able to read Greek...

Can I read Greek? No. Can I translate Greek? Yes. Do you need to be able to do either of those to figure out that Jesus was out past curfew with a naked kid and some shit bag unlawfully possessing a weapon and then killed the next day when that's what is written? Nope.

Do you need to possess any skills to formulate the hypothesis that child sex abuse is an integral part of REAL Christian theology? Nope, but it sure helps.

Thank you for recommending Dr. Hillman's work, I am listening to it now.
I was not looking to insult your intelligence. I appologize. And i agree with your points. The point i was making about knowing how to read/translate ancient greek is because i can't and i find that important if the New Testiment was written in that language — you know how things can be easily mistranslated. What I am saying is i have zero trust for any translation that is given to the general pulbic based on the conduct of the catholic church in history and its difficult to find trust with someone i randomly find on youtube when i have zero way to confirm anything but asking someone else that is knowledgable in the area that can confirm — which is why i asked you if you could read/translate ancient greek for a second opinion.

So when you watch Dr. Hillman he will say things like Jesus was a child trafficker which is more than just him with a kid in the park getting arrested by the romans.

It is possible this could of been pedastery which was practice in ancient times were an adult would have a sexual relationship with a young boy usually as a mentorship type of thing. Thinking of how the reader may interpret that scene in that time was that this was Jesus's lover.
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I was not looking to insult your intelligence. I appologize. And i agree with your points. The point i was making about knowing how to read/translate ancient greek is because i can't and i find that important if the New Testiment was written in that language — you know how things can be easily mistranslated. What I am saying is i have zero trust for any translation that is given to the general pulbic based on the conduct of the catholic church in history and its difficult to find trust with someone i randomly find on youtube when i have zero way to confirm anything but asking someone else that is knowledgable in the area that can confirm — which is why i asked you if you could read/translate ancient greek for a second opinion.

So when you watch Dr. Hillman he will say things like Jesus was a child trafficker which is more than just him with a kid in the park getting arrested by the romans.

It is possible this could of been pedastery which was practice in ancient times were an adult would have a sexual relationship with a young boy usually as a mentorship type of thing. Thinking of how the reader may interpret that scene in that time was that this was Jesus's lover.
His other claim was that jesus was practicing a ancient mystery rite practice which predated him. Very interesting stuff. I cannot remember the details word for word but it involved taking mixture of several things including snake venom which would kill you if you did not have an antidote for it. The antidote's primary ingredient was the excrement of little boy by what Dr. Hillman is claiming.

So apparently according to him (i haven't looked into this further yet) back then they had a way of making of drugs by using the human body as the vessel to make it, then using the bodily fluid of the person after all is done with that process. Fascinating stuff.
 
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MidnightProphet

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If it was pederasty there would have been no need to arrest him...he would have had money and lawyers.
 

jkeller293

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If it was pederasty there would have been no need to arrest him...he would have had money and lawyers.
Do you think he was wealthy? Correct me if i am wrong as i was brought up catholic, there was the story of the 3 kings (or 3 magi in another version) were they bring the baby jesus gold, myrrh, and frankincense. To me this story sounds like bullshit, but if that was true those items are not something you just give to the lower class of society.
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Do you think he was wealthy? Correct me if i am wrong as i was brought up catholic, there was the story of the 3 kings (or 3 magi in another version) were they bring the baby jesus gold, myrrh, and frankincense. To me this story sounds like bullshit, but if that was true those items are not something you just give to the lower class of society.
To me jesus's prosecution story sounds similar to islamic sufi marytr's like Al Hallaj that were killed over radically displaying views against what is normally accepted. So i am wondering if Jesus was more of political threat than just simply being blasphamy (and this case at the park) to the Jewish community and the Romans.
 
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Mannimarco

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My favourite theory is that jesus was a Roman psyop to pacify the jews. They wanted a messiah to crush Rome and establish their kingdom, so Rome gave them a story about a messiah that told them they had it all wrong, "the kingdom of heaven is within you", and they needed to turn the other cheek and pay their taxes, etc. Who knows, but it would be hilarious if that was the case.

For what its worth, my pendulum says jesus is 100% created by, and dependent on, human attention. He came into existence 1,950 years ago, and was never an incarnate human. Which is a very similar answer to what I get for other gods.

If i ever successfully create magick than can permanently cut an egregore off from human attention, I guess we'll find out. Because jesus won't be around for long after that. :)
 
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