Why does the Goetic spirit not manifest itself physically?

[DiLoco_DelEted]

After trying to work with Lilith, there was an unnecessary outbreak of garden spiders, that not toxic still produced anxiety. Especially after pissing her off; pissing off Belial just made everything crash and prolonged curses imo.

As to why it doesn't manifest, it depends on what you mean.
Are you getting results?
If no, review and revise your work and try, try again.
If yes, what sort of physical and spiritual signs of progress?

It seems to me, that demonolatry anyway sees manifestation bases in blood, fire and smoke. Blood especially due to a physical and spiritual link. An instant identifier as to whom you are.
Fire to scry into or see manifestation images such as faces or animals, similar to what is seen in scrying.
Smoke the same as fire, only in some as the manis=festation base, typically from incense/censers.

 

[William66]

It's hard for us humans to hold our breath under water, possible for a few sec/min but hard. Maybe in a way it is like that for a spirit to appear? I would not be suprised if a spirit felt comfrtable while appearing in a human form(or whatever), just a thought that it would be easier for them and energy-saving by showing some signs, like i mentioned before.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Three paths - smoke, fire and blood. He hit the nail on the head, imagine trying to contact a remote galaxy, because thats exactly what a demon is - a particular specific star cluster. Now imagine earth and our top top technology in space communications - do you realize why and how certain things are done in ritual?
Level One ritual - Petition Ritual - You immerse yourself in the end and trance while crafting in demon script a petition, burn it in ritual and dispose of the ashes.
Level Two Ritual - Contact is made, but not full manifestation - signs will usually signal the company, flocks of Geese for Agares for example.
This usual involves at least smoke and fire, as does Level One, but blood deepens the connection to the demon. This is your energy imprint, an easy way for them to connect to you. If you have clairaudience, you may be on your way to level three.
Level Three ritual - Full Manifestation. You will need a bonfire, a lake, etc. And I recommend not using all your blood, but you will probably have to bleed on a sigil to get full manifestation. This is typically an adept level operation where you essentially go camping to perform your magick in the great outdoors.

 

[DamnatioMemoriae]

If one manifested itself physically. It would be beyond description, your mind is extremely likely to dismiss it as illusion.

 

[William66]

Like Stephen Skinner said. If a spell/ritual asks for skin of a snake and you use plastic or something else, do not be suprised if nothing happens. A guy said after 8 years he started to see them (because after 8 years he decided to buy the Lionskinbelt), these things can be huge part of the operation, while we blink our eyes and use something else. Just a thought for all.

All these people who failed GV,KoS etc...and said that it doesn't work, the question is, did they even follow everything step by step? I don't think so. Could that be the key for results?

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Gateways through Stone and Circle was an excellent book.

 

[Lyssia]

OK, this might be off topic, but a funny story about that.

I went through that phase, recently. I really, really wanted some physical manifestation of pretty much any spirit I was working with regularly, and I was trying to do everything right, although I admit right now, ceremonial magic, much less ceremonial according to directions, is NOT my thing.

One day, I stumbled out of nowhere across an artist on Etsy. I LOVED his work and commissioned a specific picture. Before the piece had even arrived, I found myself scribbling notes for a second picture specifically centered on my impressions and image of this spirit. Even though I really shouldn't have spent the money, I commissioned it anyway, without even having seen the first picture in person, poured in details that came out of nowhere, couldn't answer any specific questions about what, specifically, I wanted the actual image to be, and promised I'd accept whatever he gave me, because after all, I do love his work.

The picture came. I took it out of the envelope and sat there looking at it - completely delighted, mind - listening, not physically, to a certain, dear, less-than-physically-bodied friend of mine laughing their not-physical ass off. Physical manifestation, right in my hands. I mean, you can't get much more manifested, everyone can see them, any time.

Sometimes, we ask wrong.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I think part of the grimoire tradition is, as pointed out, reading between the lines and doing exactly what you're told to do.
You raise an excellent story and point btw, yes, careful what we ask for.

 

[Lemongrass00]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

Most spirits do not have etheric bodies, meaning the only way you will be able to perceive them is with your astral body, which does not correlate with your 5 senses.

 

[beardedeldridge]

Like someone else said above, results are what matters? If you asked for ______ and you got it because of your summoning and you can do it fairly consistently then do the “fireworks” really matter?

Now can they “manifest” in a visible, auditory, environment effecting presence? Yes.

Is it a lot of work to get them to manifest? Yes.

Do I know what is actually happening when they manifest? No. (Actually creating a body, just having enough power to affect the environment around the area as if they had one, the spirit being more real in the grand scheme of things than the flesh, or something else?????)

In some/most cultures there have been people who have dedicated their lives to working with these entities. So for magic hobbyists (myself included) today to declare it’s impossible due to trying a couple of times utilizing something they downloaded off the internet seems a bit naive.

-Eld

 

[Cras]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

Because you're scared, and they're being gentle

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I have to go with @beardedeldridge and others in my past. Get out into nature.
See the sigil in the air or the trees. Better near lakes. One account had Agares manifest as a flock of geese by landing into a pond.

 

[Konsciencia]

I had an experience, where a Man in black entered the place I was in at the time. Then, He vanished, leaving smoke-like vapors coming from the door He entered. Who was that? I don't know. Don't ask me. So, anything is possible.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Honestly depends on who you've attracted. Vices have demons behind them, as virtues have angels behind them. As we climb the tree of life, on the path of.return, we will encounter vices we must overcome. if you think of a demon, it will come.
If you say their enns they will come.

 

[Sabbatius]

Usually, nothing appears, not in the smoke of the incense, or the black mirror- or whatever method is used. We are often lucky enough to get an image in the mind's eye or an inclination of success of some mental manifestation.

There has only been two factors that have ever brought about any form of manifestation, albeit one would be suspect to call either anything but physical. The first and most common is in the pyres at a gathering. We will receive visions in the fire and we cannot start our services until we know the Spirit has arrived. We are constantly feeding the pyre and when we all confirm in not just a glimpse, but a consistent sight of the Manitou, we can then start our ceremonies. The second is location, as we perform on sacred lands which have been in consistent use for the same services for at least, over a century and a half. Much is seen at these locations, day and night. We are consistently keeping the fires burning until dawn.

 

[Xag9]

When I try to evoke a spirit of the Goetia he manifests himself mentally, I ask for signs and they are answered, but why when I order him to manifest physically he doesn't obey my order?

Yes they can indeed manifest physically. Or more accurately, be scryed into existence. Infact that's what I do for every spirit that I evoke.

I use the physical manifestion criteria to judge the potency of my Magick and spirits that I working with because I also evoke previously unrecorded demons.

I don't use manifestion bases like smoke nor scrying devices like Black mirrors or waters but instead rely on clairyonace and my criteria is to see them with my physical vision - minimum only a flash but spirits such Azazel, beleth and Zagan taken 10+ seconds of literally appearing in my physical vision.


My theory is that this possible because yes the spirits are indeed spiritual beings who actually have nothing to do in this physical realm but the scrying is possible because they DO NOT manifest themselves instead they tell your mind and enter your conciousness in a possession WHAT to manifest.

In so doing what I experience and call physical manifestion is literally a deep trance possession state and their forms that I am able to see Infront me with my physical eyes are literally the command of the spirits in my conciousness.

 

[Frater Kael]

C'est étrange, en vous lisant, j'ai presque eu peur. Je n'ai jamais compris que pour parler avec un esprit il fallait utiliser un appareil de divination. Quand j'invoque un esprit, il apparaît physiquement. Croyez-le ou non, cela a toujours été le cas. C'est pourquoi lorsque je lis un livre sur la divination ou le channelling pour transmettre un soi-disant message d'un esprit, cela me dérange.

 

[Yazata]

C'est étrange, en vous lisant, j'ai presque eu peur. Je n'ai jamais compris que pour parler avec un esprit il fallait utiliser un appareil de divination. Quand j'invoque un esprit, il apparaît physiquement. Croyez-le ou non, cela a toujours été le cas. C'est pourquoi lorsque je lis un livre sur la divination ou le channelling pour transmettre un soi-disant message d'un esprit, cela me dérange.

Please use English.

 

[HoldAll]

C'est étrange, en vous lisant, j'ai presque eu peur. Je n'ai jamais compris que pour parler avec un esprit il fallait utiliser un appareil de divination. Quand j'invoque un esprit, il apparaît physiquement. Croyez-le ou non, cela a toujours été le cas. C'est pourquoi lorsque je lis un livre sur la divination ou le channelling pour transmettre un soi-disant message d'un esprit, cela me dérange.

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[Xenophon]

What Frater said was: "It's strange, when I read you, I was almost scared. I never understood that to speak with a spirit you had to use a divination device. When I summon a spirit, it appears physically. Believe it or not, this has always been the case. That's why when I read a book about divination or channelling to convey a so-called message from a spirit, it bothers me."

I owe that all to Mme. Beauté, my freshman year French teacher. She told me, "Use the machine translator, you très horrible crétin! And do not come into nearness of proximity with my person." Actually, I used Bing Translate.

Seriously, when you say "physically" do you mean as a visible shape or as a solid entity? What sort of summoning do you use?