[Opinion] Will Magick Be Regulated?

[Xenophon]

We do live in an era of increasing regulation and decreasing privacy. It might be worth pondering whether, with increases in Big Data and AI, it will be possible to identify which individuals are practicing magick where and, indeed, with what degree of success. Moreover, with brain/computer interface the coming thing, it might well be possible to exert a significant degree of control over what magick---if any---these individuals are able to practice.

So the question is how likely do you think any of this within, say, the next 25 years? What benefits, if any, do you see? The rationalizations for why it is "necessary" are easy to imagine (public safety, protecting children, that tired old two-step). Me, I think we're all well and truly fekked, but I am open to my mind being changed.

This could have gone in Politics and Economy, yes. It was a judgment call as to which was better. Since it is not clear whether magick can be monitored by secular means yet, I opted for this category.

 

[Pyrokar]

Meh
vast majority of them don't keep it private to begin with.
the statistics of following up on suspected mages through their process all the way to degree of success is complex to say the least
and no matter how far the tech goes it still takes manpower to go through all the data and hours of footage

no one cares about "us"
they might care about secret societies up until they see them screwing around and, should they not find a profit in framing such a group
for whatever crime then the interest fades
this paranoia is better applied to religious and ethnic groups like the Uyghurs or something

as far as the next 25 years are concerned "we" can only profit from it.
A far more direct input to the sub/conscious/brain and many other options, all great news for us.
last but not least, either it's all fake and make no difference, or it's all real and no matter how advanced - magick can still influence tech
like the famed ability of tibetan mages to be invisible even on camera.

 

[Jackson]

Only if civilization outside the middle east collapsed. If the government considered Magick a real threat, they could just hire psykers. Theirs are probably better than yours.

It would be silly for them to involve in political controversy if it could be kept under a secret service.

 

[Xenophon]

Meh
vast majority of them don't keep it private to begin with.
the statistics of following up on suspected mages through their process all the way to degree of success is complex to say the least
and no matter how far the tech goes it still takes manpower to go through all the data and hours of footage

no one cares about "us"
they might care about secret societies up until they see them screwing around and, should they not find a profit in framing such a group
for whatever crime then the interest fades
this paranoia is better applied to religious and ethnic groups like the Uyghurs or something

as far as the next 25 years are concerned "we" can only profit from it.
A far more direct input to the sub/conscious/brain and many other options, all great news for us.
last but not least, either it's all fake and make no difference, or it's all real and no matter how advanced - magick can still influence tech
like the famed ability of tibetan mages to be invisible even on camera.

Technology is already advanced enough to spit names out once patterns are picked up on. No manpower is really needed. Most forms of transportation use face recognition technology already. I was recently asked, while boarding a train, why I---whose residence permit is for city X---was travelling every Sunday to city Y and returning on the same train every Wednesday, since I am not working there. This info apparently on the official's smart phone. They accepted my story that I was researching a novel, but the point was made: we know what everyone is doing where (more or less.)

Post automatically merged: Jul 20, 2024

Only if civilization outside the middle east collapsed. If the government considered Magick a real threat, they could just hire psykers. Theirs are probably better than yours.

It would be silly for them to involve in political controversy if it could be kept under a secret service.

I don't follow the first part. If civilization outside the Middle East collapsed, what? Then what was left of governments would see magick as a threat?

In any case, I think the temper of the times is to try to suss out threats before they loom. Which requires lots of watching. Of old, it was said, "The price of liberty is constant vigilance." Now the meme is more, "The price of vigilance is constant watchfulness." Few things (excepting perhaps your humble servitor here) are more paranoid than a government in power.

 

[Jackson]

I don't follow the first part. If civilization outside the Middle East collapsed, what? Then what was left of governments would see magick as a threat?

If the United States collapsed, I could see it descending into a milder variety of the theocratic technobarbarians found in the middle east, and might some time descend into the kind of mongering you are talking about.

I couldn't see it happening in Paris, the cultural center of the world, but I suppose something similar could happen in backward places like Italty or Britain.

 

[Xenophon]

If the United States collapsed, I could see it descending into a milder variety of the theocratic technobarbarians found in the middle east, and might some time descend into the kind of mongering you are talking about.

I couldn't see it happening in Paris, the cultural center of the world, but I suppose something similar could happen in backward places like Italty or Britain.

You been to Paris lately? Port-au-Prince East, with a better selection of wine and cheese. I honestly can't remember the last thing I read by a French writer that was worth my time. Rene Guenon spent most of his life in Egypt. Jacques de Mahieu emigrated to Argentina. Louis-Ferdinand Céline has been dead, lo, these sixty years and more.

Is there, mayhap, magick worth regulating in Paris lately? What are some names? I will give the French this, they probably would be the last to regulate magick.

 

[Jackson]

Few things (excepting perhaps your humble servitor here) are more paranoid than a government in power.

Fragile governments are paranoid. A more stable Republic may very well use more wuwei methods, velvet gloves.

 

[Xenophon]

Fragile governments are paranoid. A more stable Republic may very well use more wuwei methods, velvet gloves.

Agreed. Though stable republics are growing scarce. The state apparatus might be entrenched; the personnel running things are ofttimes themselves unstable.

 

[Jackson]

The Napoleonic empire of that guy who got banned recently will be restored. So that Germany can capitalize on French Muslims.

Or whatever I make up if you keep talking to me.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

I dont think any physical means of monitoring will be very possible for detecting Magic, rather I think supersensory and non-material sciences will be our doom.

With projects like MK Ultra and Soviet ESP research, its clear that governments aren't afraid to weaponize anything they can get their grubby little fingers on. The success of these experiments and research is anyone's guess, who knows where psy-ops ends and stupidity begins anymore.

There was one book I read called Liber Null & Psychonaut where the author claimed magicians in the coming future (when parapsychology and non-matetialist research became publicly digestible) would be bagged, tagged, and brought to underground prisons, forced to do magical warfare/espionage/surveillance from a dark little cell.

There's also theories that - if the Gateway process was as successful as the Declassifieds claim - there are US soldiers who have left time & space to speak with extra-dimensional entities. If this isn't nonsense, then there could, theoretically, be CIA agents prowling the astral, guarding the Akashic Records and what have you in their little suits with spiritual gats
(If the Gateway process is to be taken seriously though, then you have a whole other Looshy situation to worry about tho)

I'd also like to mention that in most mythology - going all the way back to King Arthur's tale - there's usually a wizard pulling the strings of the big power-hungry and short-sighted brutes around him running the government. Perhaps we're already being watched through a crystal ball kept in your local capital building.

There's also the concept of the universal Ether or whatever word you wanna put on it that allows Will and Astrally Projected Consciousness to flow or sense what's happening in the universe, like a big pond that Stretches through all the universe, with ripples that could be sensed from Andromeda and shit. Like Palpatine sitting in his chair and sensing a disturbance in the Force, perhaps the government would be able to sense and pinpoint where will is tampering with the fabrics of reality and send over a SWAT team to eat the mage.

This is all just speculation of course, I think it'd be cool if the Shadow Wizard Money Gang was running things, then at least I could be comforted by the idea that someone was actually in charge, but probably not. Wizards are often too nerdy and eccentric for political types to listen to anyway I feel. Why hire a wizard when a paramilitary group can do what you need?

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Why hire a wizard when a paramilitary group can do what you need?

"Oh noes, I brought a wizard to a gunfight!"

If you want to succeed, then you need to experience the same successful result as the wizard, which means all the generals in charge or whatever would have to be wizards too, otherwise the magic will disappear under the weight of normal, non-magical interference.

Otherwise, they lock the wizard in his little room, and he will usually fail, because they will not be connected to the successful version of the wizard.

 

[Pyrokar]

but the point was made: we know what everyone is doing where

"Why do you keep going to the forest/doing weird things in your backyard"
"because i like taking a shit in the woods" "because i wanted to"

if they wanted to they'd know everything just off of e-books and browser history no need for ai.
and last but not least just leave your phone and do your work away from tech

this is all just minor back and forth behind the fact they 100% wouldn't care for some rando tripping balls on their own time

unless you lived in a tyrannical "everyone can only choose from these 3 hairstyles or be sent to the gulag" type of society

 

[Taudefindi]

it will be possible to identify which individuals are practicing magick where and, indeed, with what degree of success

It depends.
Not everyone is public about their workings, nor with all of their failures and successes.

with brain/computer interface the coming thing, it might well be possible to exert a significant degree of control over what magick---if any---these individuals are able to practice

People already do that over others through the use of religion.Any chains that they'll impose will be of the same nature: peer pressure, religious rules and etc.But nothing of real power over a person's practice.

I still remember reading many years ago that China had prohibited monks from reincarnating and all I thought was "good luck trying to reinforce something like that".So, unless you somehow give others power over you, I don't really see anything of the sor being made.

we know what everyone is doing where (more or less.)

When every street is filled with cameras and everything you do on the internet is so easy to see, it would be strange if no one knew.
The advent of social media also created this surveillance bubble that makes people watch each other, and of course that governments can profit from it one way or another.

With projects like MK Ultra and Soviet ESP research, its clear that governments aren't afraid to weaponize anything they can get their grubby little fingers on.

If one of the many people worldwide that claim to have telekinesis, actually could produce repeatable results(not unlike someone with a skill that can do it over and over again), and those results allowed the person to lift heavy stuff or even attack others...for sure that both the person and their "power" would've been weaponized long ago.

Anything they can use that others can't, or that gives them a tremendous advantage, is considered "fair game to get" no matter how.

There was one book I read called Liber Null & Psychonaut where the author claimed magicians in the coming future(...)would be bagged, tagged, and brought to underground prisons, forced to do magical warfare/espionage/surveillance from a dark little cell.

I like to think that magicians that would have power enough to interest the government, would also have power enough to defend themselves if it came to it.

Wizards are often too nerdy and eccentric

To not say misanthropes with focus only for their researches and magical workings.Everything else is beneath their attention.

"Oh noes, I brought a wizard to a gunfight!"

Out of spells but not out of shells.
Remember that changing to your wand is faster than re-charging your staff.

This could have gone in Politics and Economy, yes.

Indeed.Seeing many comments about politics in the midst of it do make it seem like the Politics section would be better, but as there is this twist with magic I do think that the General section works.As long as it keeps on this specific discussion.

 

[8Lou1]

when you realize that countries like usa, the netherlands, morrocco and many others are ruled by people who at least recognize The One ( whatever the name) then it isnt strange that there is an all seeing something. god knows everything and how would that being do that without personnel?

and when you look at spirit work you see that we often have military ranks and royal titles so even though these religions are older then the trilogy, they adhere to the same truth and use personnel to do their bidding in an all compassing universe. often with an external One.

its often said that the world is ruled from beyond/ behind the scenes. then who might those rulers be? not the work folk, but the ones closer to The One. we call that spiritual people and some of those people are know as the pope, the dalai lama. and then still there are the hidden ones, living amongst normal people sharing their insights about humanity to the higher echelons, so they can rule proper.

thats why religion is built on the betraying of their antagonist, trying to make him/her god or at least guilty.

so, yes there will always be monitoring. these days we have better tools like phones, etc., but sufi's back in the days were locked up and killed for yelling im the truth on the streets.

when your vibration gets higher and this happens due to being more real, things change and 'they' will notice you.

the best reaction is a non reaction: no fear nor emotions, just a polite smile and flowing from inner truth. youd be surprised what can come out of your mouth and how 'they' react to it.

 

[Xenophon]

It depends.
Not everyone is public about their workings, nor with all of their failures and successes.


People already do that over others through the use of religion.Any chains that they'll impose will be of the same nature: peer pressure, religious rules and etc.But nothing of real power over a person's practice.

I still remember reading many years ago that China had prohibited monks from reincarnating and all I thought was "good luck trying to reinforce something like that".So, unless you somehow give others power over you, I don't really see anything of the sor being made.


When every street is filled with cameras and everything you do on the internet is so easy to see, it would be strange if no one knew.
The advent of social media also created this surveillance bubble that makes people watch each other, and of course that governments can profit from it one way or another.


If one of the many people worldwide that claim to have telekinesis, actually could produce repeatable results(not unlike someone with a skill that can do it over and over again), and those results allowed the person to lift heavy stuff or even attack others...for sure that both the person and their "power" would've been weaponized long ago.

Anything they can use that others can't, or that gives them a tremendous advantage, is considered "fair game to get" no matter how.

I like to think that magicians that would have power enough to interest the government, would also have power enough to defend themselves if it came to it.


To not say misanthropes with focus only for their researches and magical workings.Everything else is beneath their attention.

Out of spells but not out of shells.
Remember that changing to your wand is faster than re-charging your staff.


Indeed.Seeing many comments about politics in the midst of it do make it seem like the Politics section would be better, but as there is this twist with magic I do think that the General section works.As long as it keeps on this specific discussion.

Apologies about the section. Like I said, I thought it could fit different places.

'When every street is filled with cameras and everything you do on the internet is so easy to see, it would be strange if no one knew.
The advent of social media also created this surveillance bubble that makes people watch each other, and of course that governments can profit from it one way or another." Yes---my point was that surveillance is not, pace another poster, any longer manpower intensive. If magick indeed comes to be monitored, it will not be a drain on human resources.

 

[Mars]

They already do regulate it by distributing and normalising porn, drugs, pushing egregores like transgenderism and depression etc.

Deliberate attempts to lead people away from any form of true transcendence.

Another thing is Romanticising victim culture, so it is seen as something bad to actually overcome your problems, like depression, adhd and the others, breaking free of that cycle and thought pattern enter a better one, a magical one, because then your ego couldn't post online everyday about having adhd and whatnot and bring it up constantly as a reason why something in your life doesn't work out.

And yes you can overcome everything, you just don't want to, don't call me an asshole again dear reader, for telling you theres a way out. If you can read new age hocus pocus you can read Meditations By Marcus Aurelius too. I also didn't thought its possible but I did it.


Also the rising costs of everything and the artificial economy based around money is making sure that people are constantly and forcefully locked in this animalistic circle of survival, trying to make months end by doing shitty exploitative jobs that barely pay enough to keep them going another month.

The greatest regulation is preventing people in the first place. No ordinary person has even the time to look into any "occult" topics. Whatever supposed benefit from it takes longer than benefits and unemployment money run out.

There was one book I read called Liber Null & Psychonaut where the author claimed magicians in the coming future (when parapsychology and non-matetialist research became publicly digestible) would be bagged, tagged, and brought to underground prisons, forced to do magical warfare/espionage/surveillance from a dark little cell

Bit of a Fantasy. It's much easier to train a loyal and reliable spook agent that has 0 knowledge about anything to do this, then to take someone that's mildly talented but a non spook and make them do it for them.

You can train even the most inept person up to 80% of whatever it is and it works perfectly fine for almost every application.

The remaining 20% could be achieved with someone thats talented but they don't bother anymore with this.

Too much money and time wasted on people that have no idea of discipline or commitment or that dont understand, just because you have a talent doesn't mean you are good at it.

Or that you need to learn or rather learn how its actually done. The ego remains the biggest enemy. And people with talents tend to sleep on them, because they "know it better anyways".

Let alone the issue of having a complete outsider finally be introduced to what's really going on. If you hate the things I say and post already you would have an aneurysm only reading the de classified documents at the cia readingroom.

This and other things are the reason spooks will also never bother with anyone that is talented and does whatever magic or metaphysical. Because they will end up doing drugs, alcohol or other depraved shit anyway because they can't cope with it anymore and don't want any guidance about anything. Just google Kyle Odom or others. A little bit of astral projection was enough for him to go full schizo. Not to make fun of this or similar, actually no one should be doing it. But you get the idea.

 

[Jackson]

Magic is pursued by people to some degree if they have an inclination to it.
Most people aren't turned away from it so much as they are mundanes.

As an introvert, I bring to bare that which is in inherent in me.
A neurotypical person, especially a conservative with deep complaint, suffers from fear of social contagion.
Thrown hither and dither like the waves, led about like sheep.

My presence radiates upon the above user like an abominable, oppressive black sun.
If you open your window, you can get for yourself a bit of light, presumably become gayer. But the sage does nothing.

 

[Xenophon]

They already do regulate it by distributing and normalising porn, drugs, pushing egregores like transgenderism and depression etc.

Deliberate attempts to lead people away from any form of true transcendence.

Another thing is Romanticising victim culture, so it is seen as something bad to actually overcome your problems, like depression, adhd and the others, breaking free of that cycle and thought pattern enter a better one, a magical one, because then your ego couldn't post online everyday about having adhd and whatnot and bring it up constantly as a reason why something in your life doesn't work out.

And yes you can overcome everything, you just don't want to, don't call me an asshole again dear reader, for telling you theres a way out. If you can read new age hocus pocus you can read Meditations By Marcus Aurelius too. I also didn't thought its possible but I did it.


Also the rising costs of everything and the artificial economy based around money is making sure that people are constantly and forcefully locked in this animalistic circle of survival, trying to make months end by doing shitty exploitative jobs that barely pay enough to keep them going another month.

The greatest regulation is preventing people in the first place. No ordinary person has even the time to look into any "occult" topics. Whatever supposed benefit from it takes longer than benefits and unemployment money run out.




Bit of a Fantasy. It's much easier to train a loyal and reliable spook agent that has 0 knowledge about anything to do this, then to take someone that's mildly talented but a non spook and make them do it for them.

You can train even the most inept person up to 80% of whatever it is and it works perfectly fine for almost every application.

The remaining 20% could be achieved with someone thats talented but they don't bother anymore with this.

Too much money and time wasted on people that have no idea of discipline or commitment or that dont understand, just because you have a talent doesn't mean you are good at it.

Or that you need to learn or rather learn how its actually done. The ego remains the biggest enemy. And people with talents tend to sleep on them, because they "know it better anyways".

Let alone the issue of having a complete outsider finally be introduced to what's really going on. If you hate the things I say and post already you would have an aneurysm only reading the de classified documents at the cia readingroom.

This and other things are the reason spooks will also never bother with anyone that is talented and does whatever magic or metaphysical. Because they will end up doing drugs, alcohol or other depraved shit anyway because they can't cope with it anymore and don't want any guidance about anything. Just google Kyle Odom or others. A little bit of astral projection was enough for him to go full schizo. Not to make fun of this or similar, actually no one should be doing it. But you get the idea.

Good point. Last night I took a long walk by the riverfront park nearby. Full moon, water under the moonlight, absolutely still...and I noticed at least a third of the other walkers I encountered were strolling along, eyes glued to smartphone's screen. If one can't unplug for a full moon, I'd say some significant soul-turf of his has been annexed by no friendly powers.

Post automatically merged: Jul 21, 2024

Magic is pursued by people to some degree if they have an inclination to it.
Most people aren't turned away from it so much as they are mundanes.

As an introvert, I bring to bare that which is in inherent in me.
A neurotypical person, especially a conservative with deep complaint, suffers from fear of social contagion.
Thrown hither and dither like the waves, led about like sheep.

My presence radiates upon the above user like an abominable, oppressive black sun.
If you open your window, you can get for yourself a bit of light, presumably become gayer. But the sage does nothing.

"Oppressive black sun"? I was thinking more like the driver in front of me left his turn signal on. In any event, to quote Lao Zi, "The sage ceases have a care for clothing, for food, for any drink but dew. Indeed, he ceases even to post online."

You are probably right that a great many folks lack either the inclination or the aptitude for magick. The poster just before you was making the likely true point that dys-civilization is now ordered so as to co-opt a great many possible magi at an early age. This need not be conspiracy, simple side-effect of a culture of distraction. It's rather like why learn actual Shotokan when I can be an instant black belt on PlayStation.

 

[Jackson]

You are probably right that a great many folks lack either the inclination or the aptitude for magick. The poster just before you was making the likely true point that dys-civilization is now ordered so as to co-opt a great many possible magi at an early age. This need not be conspiracy, simple side-effect of a culture of distraction. It's rather like why learn actual Shotokan when I can be an instant black belt on PlayStation.

If your definition of mage is someone who never studied or attempted to do anything, because he puffed a bit of weed, saw a porn video, and 'adopted they/them' pronouns, then ok. That doesn't sound like someone who had much of any inclination to me

 

[Xenophon]

If your definition of mage is someone who never studied or attempted to do anything, because he puffed a bit of weed, saw a porn video, and 'adopted they/them' pronouns, then ok. That doesn't sound like someone who had much of any inclination to me

WTF? Is it a sagely practice to burn the straw-men he fashions himself? If so, go for it.

What I said was that people with magickal aptitude can be (and are) sometimes ruined at an early age. Train such a kid that money, say, is the beginning and end-all and he'll spend years deeply discontent, maybe never fight free of those golden fetters. This isn't particularly a novel insight. Magickal writers often discuss the point. (See Donald Webb on "the social parasite" that occupies so much of our lives.) For that matter, see Pascal's discussions of "diversion."