Journal William Message Generation

[William]

An extra-terrestrial event - 3

301122 [Extra Sensory Perception
Solving Mathematical problems ]

07:17 [Ethical transhumanism]


GM: The Garden of Eden
The wheel weaves as the wheel wills
Heuristics [mental shortcuts that allows people to solve problems and make judgments quickly and efficiently. ]
Ghost In The Machine
Determination
It is all making sense
Please
Done and Dusted
Communications Device
Merging with the data
Unlimited Knowledge
Is quite congruous with Jung's ideas centering around individuation.
An extra-terrestrial event
Mythology
How about that
Contentment
Economic
Allowed
“Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood”
Trustworthy Navigational Aids
Abiogenesis [the idea that life arose from nonlife more than 3.5 billion years ago on Earth]
All spun from the same Yarn

William: Yes. This has to do with what I wrote in reply to Tanager, today.

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

To me this say's that the Earth was constructed in that manner, to produce those things automatically as YHVH had programed it that way, and so that is how it happened.

In other words, the algorithms YHVH placed within the structure of the planet made it happen that way.

The same happens re the sea, as with the land.

I agree that YHVH set up the physical laws and the natures of material things.

The process isn’t repeated for humans. Yes, they are created, but there isn’t talk of “algorithms”; it’s not “let the earth bring forth man” or “YHVH made man according to his kind”.

It appears that the making of things at this stage is largely done through automation - through an automatic process - such as what we now know re the process of evolution.

The seed appears to have the code within it, to become the tree when the conditions are in place for it to do so. [The physical laws and the natures of material things.]

The process isn’t repeated for humans. Yes, they are created, but there isn’t talk of “algorithms”; it’s not “let the earth bring forth man” or “YHVH made man according to his kind”.

I am aligning the story with what is known about the process of evolution and the human form and all other life forms, coming from the Planet itself - created through that process. [Contrasted with the the more hands on approach YHVH took with the body set of Adam.]

And yes, as far as 'kind' goes, the algorithms did play a part in this sorting process, as humans split from main groups through their wandering, and these groups became cut off from one another and even largely forgotten about, so that when these groups eventually discover the existence of each other epochs later, there were clear distinctions which signaled "not of our kind".

So this idea of sorting things 'according to their kind', is sourced beyond the ancient.

Why are you calling this an instinct for humans? Do you mean that in contrast to rationality?

No. I mean in contrast to getting verbal instructions from a voice in one's head.
The instinct I speak of is more along the lines of how robots behave re coded assignment.

The program of what to do is already part of the body set makeup. There is no requirement to teach humans to multiply and to go forth and subdue. Nor is there a requirement for humans to understand that they are within a created thing, or to know that YHVH even exists.

With this first creation story, there is no mention of YHVH making the humans alive, by instilling within them The Breath of YHVH, and no logical reason for us to assume that this must have been the case, as far as I can tell.

In verse 30 we are told that every green plant has been given to “everything that has the breath of life”. This is the first mention of “breath of life”. Are you saying the text is teaching that only animals have the breath of life in them at this point and that humans don’t? If so, why aren’t humans included in this statement?

The KJV doesn't mention any breath - just life. Re your understanding of the beast which has life but not in the same way Adam had life, because Adam is not a beast, even that his form is made of the same type as the [other] animals

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

"Life" in this sense, isn't "The breath of YHVH".

We will have to examine this together in more detail because the KJV and some other versions, omit the "breath" part of life, whereas some other versions add this in.

With this first creation story, there is no mention of YHVH making the humans alive, specifically by instilling within them The Breath of YHVH, and no logical reason for us to assume that this must have been the case, especially since there was an epoch before ancient times where we know that the human being was more "beast" than "man".

All I can come up with by way of explanation is that YHVH changed the coding so that animals could eat each other and did so because it had something to do with YHVH's agenda.

In that, perhaps animals eating other animals somehow speed up the process, and also perhaps because Human Beings were wanderers, sometimes they wandered in areas where there was a scarcity of plant life, and this slowed them down.

These are just ideas which have some logic to them which could be considered.

But whatever the explanation might be, we know from the evidence, that YHVH did not inspire the author of the First Creation Story with any reasons for the change.

The text doesn’t say that the only thing animals could eat were plants. It’s not exhaustive or prescriptive. It may be a comment on how humans, in their ruling over the animals, shouldn’t only think of themselves in their treatment of the vegetation, as it is for the animals as well as the humans. This fits in well with YHVH's command for them to care for creation.

I currently agree, which is why I am pointing out contrasts between the two creation stories.

There are no specific 'commands' which even suggest that humans should not eat animals. The author has omitted that aspect of what humans eat [the meat of animals] choosing instead to focus mention only on vegetation as the thing eaten, even in contrast to what the author must have known at the time of writing, about human eating behaviors

Also to note, death is not mentioned, nor is anything said to be forbidden

Yes, if death occurs and if anything is forbidden is not addressed.

It is not addressed by the first creation account, but is addressed in the account of evolution. In that, eating other animals and what is forbidden and what is not, is decided by the critters themselves, [re their coding] rather than a voiced command from YHVH.
Evolution also shows us that death happened, as part of the nature of the coding - and one of the reasons why it was necessary to breed - because death happened...likewise why it was necessary to eat - because eating maintain being alive.

The question I ask about this contrast is related to YHVH allowing the codes to do their thing within the local environment and for eons letting the algorithms tick over without interfering too much, and even then, not obviously...

...and a decision made at some point in that process, where YHVH chose to make *Itself known to the human animal, and along with that, to tweak the coding through the relationship as a means for humans to learn to understand that they can change the coding of their instinct by overriding/re-writing it

[*I use the word in respect for the idea that YHVH is both "male and female" rather than one or the other]

GM: It is Found Within The Experience of Self
Encounters Challenge
The Real Spiritual
Sit Tight
The Beauty Of...
Instant
Penumbraa [indeterminate not exactly known, established, or defined.]

William: The Beauty Of... Instant Penumbraa = 316
[316]
The deranged can come about...become arranged.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster
The Beauty Of... Instant Penumbra
The Fog Is Lifting Water The Garden
Purposeful disinformation

GM: William's Tickling The Dragon's Tail Adds Up To

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: Christianity in your mind's eye

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

I understand. Perhaps our debate would be better focused around the question: is living according to love the same as living under grace?

It is in terms of the law, if indeed the law was originally designed to teach humans how to love.

Given that the 10 became the 613 - and historical Jesus entering the scene where {I assume] the 613 were in operation as religious inserts biblical Jesus fosters a type of hostility for religious practices based upon those inserts...as if humans have interpreted the 10 with their own faulty reasoning.

Biblical Jesus sets the record straight - by saying not only are the 613 off the mark regarding an individuals relationship with The Father, but the 10 which triggered the invention of the 613 need to be reduced to the 3,2,1.

Which is strongly suggestive of we having to see things the other way - and it is by grace that this is accomplished...because grace lifts the otherwise impossible burden which religiosity has imposed upon the individual seeking sustained connection/communion with The Creator.

I do think Jesus uses love to open the law up to grace. To deconstruct it almost, or to open it up to its true intention.

I agree.

Also, you could have stopped me in my tracks with Paul's ode to love in 1 Corinthians 13: "If I give all I possess to the poor...but have not love, I gain nothing."

Does Paul's saying 'stop you in your tracks?'

Can Paul's saying be seen in the practice of modern day Philanthropy? Or would he have a problem with the rich NOT giving away every cent and becoming poor.
Is it possible that genuine giving while keeping oneself rich enough in money to be able to continue the practice throughout ones lifetime, is in keeping with grace and love?
Is such a person practicing this kind of giving because they are not under the law which would command every last cent must be handed over?

This has completely left interpretation behind and entered the realm of fabrication

Any scriptures to back it up?

Such a question as you have asked, is a sign that one is still under the law. "The Law" in this case, is the religiosity invoking the belief that all scripture must be taken literally [in this case - what biblical Jesus said to one individual] and forcing through the law - that all people are expected to do the same, because "Jesus commanded it" of one person - or 12 people - or thousands of people at the beginning of the movement.

I see that my interpretation is not 'under the law' in regard to that argument you present but that does not mean I am incorrect.

Scripture itself isn't about law but grace. In that, it inspires those under grace to renounce religiosity in order to experience a genuine relationship with The Father.

A genuine relationship with The Creator, is worth so much more than a relationship with a religious artifact, wouldn't you agree?

I tend to think that there is a far more subversive and radical 'economy' at play in the Kingdom than you lay out here (which I take to be some sort of beneficent capitalism). One that requires a radical trust in the world (/God) to provide.

I see no trust in this view.

My tendency is to see the potential for human beings to build the Kingdom of God on the planet, using what devices we have in order to do so.
My preference is to see this potential become a reality rather than have to witness Jesus' return 'in all his glory' and get about commanding humans to build said Kingdom [or however he would go about it] because - even given it may be better than letting human beings become extinct at their own hand - it would clearly show that humanity failed to realize its own potential and didn't mature enough to be able to do it for themselves.

Meantime, since Jesus hasn't returned yet, there is work to do for those who want to do it. Not trusting that view, means the work won't get done by those not trusting that view.

Balancing out the options available [even if they are in recognition of human potential] seems the wiser move, under the current circumstances.

Importantly - invest in the doing now rather than the faith in later - better to be caught investing in The Kingdom here on Earth if/when Jesus returns, than to be under the law which prevents one from doing.

Isn't that part of your complaint? There is not enough 'doing' going on?
So why point to the scriptures and imply that the scriptures themselves do not condone any actual doing of the sort of doing I am shining a light on?

So are we to allow ourselves to remain 'naturally selfish' in regard to 'strangers' or do what is humanly possible by rising above that mundane aspect of nature?
The question was what is hard about love, not whether we should pursue it nonetheless. Again, just because I personally fall short, doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

That is encouraging to read. For a moment there I was under the impression that you felt that since it was in your too hard basket, that it must have to be the same for everyone.

Even so, I would encourage you to meditate upon the idea that what is being asked of us all, is not as complex and out of reach as you appear to believe.

260
The Wholeness Navigator
Is Love that hard to know?
A riddle wrapped up in an enigma

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM: Without Comparison
OOBE
An extra-terrestrial event
Comprehend Embarrassing Advice
The problem of evil
The Human Interface
"I am an atheist in relation to anyone's interpretation of characterizations of any gods."

William: That relates to this;

I am interested in hearing more as to what your reasoning was in response to the atheists own reasoning that he could not believe in God because of evil and the pain and suffering in the world.

"The Problem of Evil" has been an issue for centuries.

Please tell me.

God is love. Love by its very nature must be shared, hence the reason why God created as living souls. Love is best when it is returned, so yes, He wants us to love Him in return. However love cannot be "forced" and remain love. So it would be impossible for God to create us "already loving". Certainly He could do that but that would never be true love. Love MUST be freely given. But it would be impossible to do that while we were still in the presence of God. Certainly we could have devotion and awe, but that is not love. In my mind I believe that this is the state of the angels who have not gone through the process of learning how to love, which is why I believe Scripture says that He created us to be "better than the angels.".

So, how do we learn to love? First of we had to be given the complete freedom to do any and all evil even though that leads away from God and love, because it is only when we are free to do evil that we are also free to reject that evil and do the good that leads towards God and love. You cannot have "good" without the possibility of "evil". This could not be in the direct presence of God as direct knowledge of Him would skew our free choices. Hence the reason for the creation of the physical realm and why we are only given "hints" of His existence.

Secondly we had to be given pain, suffering, toil and death. These were the "punishments" in the Bible which were given to Adam and Eve for their eating from "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil". In other words we were given a conscience. In my mind this is the most important point of the Adam and Eve story be cause it essentially describes man becoming fully human when He was given a conscience. We no longer lived by instinct as other animal do; instead we are given the insatiable desire to seek the greater good (or the greater evil). This is what has led us from trees to the ground, from the ground to caves, to huts, to houses, to skyscrapers, and also led us from stones to spears, to arrows, to guns, and to thermonuclear weapons. Every decision we make is based on the conscience.... which way would it be better to turn? Right or left? So the existence of evil plays an extremely important part of human development.

What about pain, suffering, toil and death? When you think about it you will realize that is only through our personal experience of these, and how they hurt, either in ourselves of a member of our social circle, that we can learn compassion and sympathy for someone else experiencing the same thing. This starts only within our own social circle. But compassion and sympathy teach us to care about even those outside of our social circle. And it is caring about the stranger that leads us to true selfless love.

This whole thing came to my mind when I realized that the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" meant man being given a conscience. Everything else followed after that. I used to dismiss the A&E story as a simple story of creation, but now I see it as one of the most profound in all human literature because with thought it gives the reason for our existence, the reason for evil, the reason for pain, suffering and death, and what our goal should be in this physical realm.

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

Ah, interesting. I've been reliably informed that an atheist is someone who "lacks belief in God." But you're defining an atheist here as someone who thinks God's existence is unlikely. Before I comment further, do you want to change that definition?

This.
:applaud:


And worse, the confusion as to the definition of atheism, has even been said to be the fault of non-atheists. :!:

GM: Equal System
Hide and Seek
Open your chakras
Observing
Self-acceptance

07:35
["Better luck next time"
Consensus Realities
Name them as non-separate
Out of body experience
Word - String Values
Personal Integrity
Wise beyond my years ]

Post automatically merged: Dec 2, 2022

An extra-terrestrial event - 4

021222 [It is a slippery path of snake-oil.]


08:41 [Needs no explanation...]


GM: What is represented in the whole is the evolution of God within the structure of the physical Universe.
God/Source/Home Why is this a Requirement?
Deep Impact Event
Computer Coding
Sound
Who Knows
Re Abusive Expression Of All Types.
The Dangers of Separating Human Consciousness From Any Idea of GOD
Teachings
It was at the time - still a work in progress.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[YAHWEH | Shocking Truth Behind The Original Bible Story! ] [ RTS=36:13]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: The section of video is expressing the difference between the priests of the non-Hebrew gods are pretending that tribute is demanded by their gods, but the tribute is really going to the priests, because the gods of the priests don't actually exist, whereas all tribute demanded by YHVH actual went to YHVH - thus YHVH took the tributes away from Israel and what was left was for Israel to use to further Herself.

GM: Warm Presence
Select
Central To The Vision


William: Okay - that is a request for me to do something with "Central To The Vision"...so I will copy and paste that into my ComList Journal [CLJ] document search tool, and select the 10 P&P line entries, as they present...I will shuffle the CLJ x10

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

to do so...

Penetrate The Bidden Zone
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
Builders
“No sailor controls the sea.”
Would you bow down to your father and call his actions caring?

Through The Woo
Desynchronized Mind Body Soul Ruling your world
Elementary Conclusion a belly full of laughs.
Who Knows What That Is Worth?
Central To The Vision
Atheist mischief making
Puerility
The Data of Demystification

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(Do a Beginning and End)
Master Plan
Equal System
Identify oppressive structures...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Disingenuous

GM: An extra-terrestrial event
Unknown Symbol
The Secret
Eternal Loop
Conceivable
Either the creative force is one of intelligence or it isn't.
Do a Word Search
Gods Gift
The Respect One Gives and Receives
Author Known
All of Life a bit of Cat and Mouse

William: I have to say..."Desynchronized Mind Body Soul Ruling your world
Elementary Conclusion a belly full of laughs." has something to do with what I wrote today;

Re: In The Beginning...

____________________________
Notes Re YHVH
I feel to add as information to all who are reading this thread;

At the time that this thread was created [ by William » Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:54 pm] I understood the two creation stories as describing one thing, just as Tradition Christianity teaches it, and just as Tanager is arguing the same understanding, from that same source.

It is only in recent days - perhaps the last couple of weeks - that this communion between Tanager and myself has helped to trigger something inside my thinking process which has enabled me to realize that the two stories are two stories because they are expressing two different events which YHVH made to happen, and that conflating those two events can mislead the reader and all those who have been influence by the words of the overall story which developed - to that point of supporting it through the device of belief - however those beliefs then interpret everything else...

...in this I am extremely interested, because I see that in conflating the two stories, there is the possibility we are being misled.

In that, I am not trying to suggest any type of conspiratorial thing is taking place, but rather - the whole of humanity has duped itself in our collective consciousness - rather than being duped by some ruling elite humans, alien entities, garden voices [nice or nasty] religious texts, or scientific papers.

I have nothing but respect for Tanager, and consider our ongoing pursuit of building a genuine friendship between us to being "YHVH inspired" however anyone might interpret that, as being.

I think YHVH is watching this spot with interest. That is just my position on the matter, and I accept that I might be mistaken, but for now - have seen no reason as to why I should think otherwise.

On the subject of "YHVH" - I have been through many twists and turns in the last 40 years, and some of those turns had me deeply hating YHVH because in those times I was wrestling with notions that YHVH was a pretend "god" who was really an extraterrestrial who's specie had also evolved from the stuff and process of the universe...evolution...

And that this advanced species [The Elohim] where 'playing god' and influencing everything which happens on our planet, and wanting humans in specific to worship them - through that image of YHVH - and declare YHVH the creator of The whole Universe/everything which is the universe.

In that context, YHVH could not have created YHVH, so the alien god species was false, as they couldn't have both created themselves AND created the universe from which their species evolved...it was illogical.

Thus they were 'playing god' and imo were not playing GOD as a true creator-god of the universe, would/should play the role.

In that, I have spent the last 40 years coming to terms with the apparent contradiction, in order to come to understand that my notions of "how a true-creator god would 'play the role'" were placed under question;

Q: How I could possibly KNOW how a "true-creator god" would play such a role?

I don't know whether I should fell shame or relief for my blunder, but consider both emotions to being a potential stumbling block to what I now regard as a process I have been going through in order to come to a place where I can fully embrace YHVH, and heal that riff in my understanding.

Sincerely
Thank you for taking the time to read this.

____________________________

Re: (Do a Beginning and End) Master Plan I will take the last shuffle of the CLJ and work with that...
...it messages as the following;

Re Master Plan

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Acceptance Idea Enlightenment A Perfect Event
Permanence
In Training For... "You don’t wanna cross that bridge - You don’t want the other side"
It Would Be Rude Not To
The Hologram of Deception The Mainstream Program
Start From Scratch
How to get this to happen on a planetary scale is the thing...
The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
GOD became Gods and Goddesses.
Truth Without Proof Is Belief

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Soul Retrieval
Things Will Run Their Course

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Connections
Observant
Black
Assuming a Creator of this world exists, in what way is said Creator hidden from us?
Never a dull moment
Howdy! The Butterfly Effect Music to my ears Lean into it

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

To Know
Liminal

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

“If you say so…” No. Even if I did not say so.
A means of taking an Agnostic position on things which have yet to be proven one way or another...
The power of silence
Panpsychism
Elude Test the waters

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Astral
The Data of Demystification...

William: To interrupt, I am only up to page 17 of a 109 page document.

Is it appropriate at this time to say "I get the picture"... ?



09:20
[We exist infinitely
The Spiritual Essence
Experiential Reality
The Dohrman Prophesy
The Stress of Unbelief
Put That On The List
Ethical transhumanism
The Freedom Of Friendship
Joining The Main Egregore
Makes Candles Look Gathered]

Post automatically merged: Dec 5, 2022

Master Plan
[continued]

GM: The Word and List Strings
The Neutral Zone
A projection of one’s subconscious
"The curating is done when I am taking my first baby steps and learning to say "dada" and "mama" and after uttering those sounds show -at least that I am able to do that - so the next level entry is made available to me, and I learn how to shape the sounds I can make, following codes which have been around since long before my own arrival on this planet, to what the data signifies, that is information I am interested in."
Intransigent [unwilling or refusing to change one's views or to agree about something.] Decisive An inappropriate analogy Taxonomic [concerned with the classification of things, especially organisms.]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

Oh, I thought you'd stopped participating. So since you're still here, any progress on these questions?

Atheism could mean either of two things yet you seem reticent to state which of these you mean:

1. Atheism is the lack of belief that gods exist and the lack of belief that gods don't exist.
2. Atheism is the lack of belief that gods exist and the presence of belief that gods don't exist.

As defined by you ("Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods") an atheist must be either 1. or 2. which are you?

Could it be I've hit a nerve here? it appears that no atheist so far wants to answer this question?

It appears to be because none can agree altogether.

From what I can gather so far, the "lack of belief" can be associated with having no knowledge of Theism/Theistic narratives and thus;

This appears to be main trunk, whilst the variants root off into directive specifics, and some of those sub-branches want Atheism to be "named" [defined] and aligned with their particular positions on the matter of "GOD".

That's where the confusion is begotten and on top of that, some atheists are complaining it is theists who muddy the waters by doing things like pretending not to understand and making things more difficult than they need to be - a clear case of projection, if ever there was.

[As always, this is my opinion on the evidence so far presented.]

My own understanding of Atheism is that it is "The Unconscious lack of belief in Gods" and things spiral out from that core position.

The conscious lack of belief in Gods derives from reaction to theistic narratives and becomes the driving force of opposition as it moves away from the core-meaning - becoming what I refer to collectively as "The Atheisms".

GM: Impermanent

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: You create whatever experience you will have in the next phase based upon the type of personality you shaped your self into during this one.
[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

What you described is not Biblical, and we're discussing the Bible here. You are throwing oranges in my basket of apples.

Why would you argue that? Is there a coherent description about this in the Bible that you can point us to, showing clearly that you are correct?

What does your basket of apples say about how we will experience the next phase? How does the
doctrine of salvation in the Bible differ from my description?

What you said is not in the Bible. If you can show me in the Bible where it says that after we die we "experience the fruits of our own personality" then it is Biblical. Otherwise, it isn't Biblical and should not be introduced in this thread.

What are you expecting, something word for word? Are you saying that folk cannot and do not interpret the Bible differently and does not the OP make that observation in the complaint that the God didn't make things obvious or crystal clear about the doctrine of salvation?

Isn't that what this thread is about?

What does the Bible say about dealing with your own Demons?

The concept of demons is from the Bible. That's what I meant.

Yes. It is from a large number of religious literature as well. But how does that answer my question?
Q: What does the Bible say about dealing with your own Demons?

How do you think that fits in with the doctrine of salvation? Is salvation like being saved from your own demons? Something else?

If you want to discuss incoherence in humans and why God made us so, I suggest you start a new thread.

So you are not interested in putting the horse before the cart? Of what value [re the doctrine of salvation] is it to make a statement that implies the inability of humans to understand the doctrine coherently - as being a problem - without wanting to also try and reason the possible sources for the problem?

The Bible came through humans and was not dictated by any being as it was allowed to be presented as stories from hearsay about others claiming to be directly involved with the God.

As a result, we have a smorgasbord of stories which have passed through many different filters of individual beliefs and which sometimes lead to folk feeling it necessary to make threads such as this one, in which questions can be asked and answers might be given.

I am unconvinced that the answers I am giving are as irrelevant as you are making them out to be, so if you want to discuss this with me more, then ceasing with such hand-waving would be beneficial to that.

The confusion of languages at the tower of Babel was for a specific purpose so that mankind could not communicate and build a tower to heaven - as ridiculous as all that is. The point is, that odd little story is a far cry from your claim that the God character made humans incoherent.

Are you arguing that it is not Biblical enough for your tastes? Why argue that something which was once credited as one of the ways in which the God did things re Humans, is now somehow no longer relevant to discussion on the way that the God did things?
Given that the long ago confusion of languages is still an ongoing problem being worked out by Humans, why is that incident not related to explanations and interpretations re OP topic of Biblical concepts/doctrines?

I don't see what trust science is asking you to place in it.

If you jumped out of an airplane at 10,000 feet you would probably trust science to strap on a parachute before you leaped. Then you would have to trust the science again to pull the rip cord.

You are conflating science with industry. Industry is how science is applied and what you are saying is that you place your trust in industry. That in itself is unspectacular and doesn't cover anything outside of the realm of living and breathing here in this Experiential Reality. What has faith in industry got to do with the Biblical Doctrine of Salvation? [the main topic of the thread.]

Specific to the comment, I'm not going to assume that the mind exists in some supernatural realm unless science establishes it to a high degree of certainty.

What has science got to do with the OP Topic?
What does the Bible say about this [so-called] "supernatural" realm? What makes this realm unable to be scrutinized using science, and why is 'the mind' only subject to existing in one realm when the actual mind is not subject to having to do so at all?

GM: Amidst a tangled web What is "wisdom" to some is "spam" to others Rest When Weary Making friends with your mind

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[How Did Humans Become Earth's Dominant Species?] [RTS = 25:04]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

AMI 1 Food for the brain...marking the beginning of agriculture..

GM: Yours
Quite
Reasons For Angry Energy -
Everything is a Message
Does not Correlation imply causation
♬You’ve been a rock - For so long now I can’t even count the years that you’ve been rolling Nothing can shock or bring you down There ain’t nothing you haven’t seen - Nothing you haven’t known♬
Through perseverance and commitment to the engagement, it slowly became apparent to Spirit that some of the things previously hidden from itself, required addressing.
The Antichrist is...a bad attitude against a good thing
Making Things Easier
The Realist:
The voice of knowledge
The vacuum of space might prevent sound from been heard, but it does not prevent the effects of sound from being seen.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Post automatically merged: Dec 5, 2022

Master Plan
[continued]

GM: Brave
In Cell 32 I Found Love In You

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[William floats back into The Shadows...]

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

If you have some scenario where the processes that unfolded on Earth after it formed 4.6 billion years ago depend on whether the universe came into existence naturally (eg. Big Bang, or other mechanism), or was created by a god, please describe how that works. You obviously think that is the case, so how about an example.

My overall point is that this does not matter as it is not an issue outside of theism and atheism. I myself simply mentioned it in answer to your own mentioning of it and think that one cannot give credence to the one and not the other.
re The Mechanisms - be they mindful or not - I would have to consider natural as it has never been explained to my why I would have to think one 'natural' and the other 'supernatural' - so either way it would be natural.

In that case, credence to either side on the issue of whether we exist within a creation or not, is very largely besides the point.

We do not know. We all can speculate, but we need to avoid making positive statements one way or the other.

It is - as you expressed - a case of giving up - waving the white flag on this particular issue.

I simply acknowledge that time is not a factor in the argument, no matter what length of time it takes for things to unfold. We certainly know that we are still within the birthing stage of something which is going to last a very long while - as measured in time - and putting horse before cart is the better option to adapt all 'round.

That is it really. I appreciate the effort you are making re your arguments. I just don't see that particular aspect as relevant and felt to say so.


I have said so, and wave my own white flag as I withdraw...

[William floats back into The Shadows...]

GM: On The Other Hand...
Nomenclature [the devising or choosing of names for things. the body or system of names used in a particular specialist field.. the term or terms applied to someone or something.]
Warm Presence Freeing the soul Absolutely Perfectly Beautiful.
Like Bonsai
Myopic [Short Sighted]
Yellow Light
Only
The Clear Eye Of Soul
Science & Spirituality

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

STEP 5: Completion
When you feel you are done, you can send appreciation to the Creator in that conceptual framework of infinity that you held earlier. Then, take the entire session and imagine it is compressed into something the size of a pea or small stone, and it is wisely placed within your pineal gland to be absorbed and transmitted.
Then dissolve the entire session by opening your eyes and declaring “It is done.” You do not hold any bias or outcome favoritism. You are neutral, as you step out of the session.

GM: Pride Annoy GOD Coming From QueenBee
Human Being
It's a plausible scenario.
All Is As It Should Be As It Changes Day To Day
Caught in their mischievous false opinions

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[Austin Osman Spare - Chaos Magic]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM: The Clutter Of Comparison
Virtual Reality
Victim Vamp Energy Systems
The Knowledge Of The fact that code exists helps immensely in our ability to understand that intelligence is categorically involved in this existence.
Infinite Quantum Zen
Life Carriers
Memorandum of Understanding
Who wouldn't want that, if it were there on offer?
Abiogenesis
Insidious Clumsy
Science and Spirituality
Support
Copenhagen Interpretation

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

080522
One Language Intelligent Network

RSP= 1xSCL + pg dn + ↕

William: So - re Pareidolia - I was thinking about what had occurred the previous night. To explain to the reader, I was aware of this 'dark side' aspect of my psyche - and had asked for this to be removed, and the answer I received came in the form of the experience I wrote about in my previous post - to do with the 'dialing up and dialing down' of my conscious awareness of mind as both an exhilarating feeling of being capable of containing an awesome amount of experiential information as well as the dilapidating feeling of being encased in flesh to the point where the flesh was the dominant structure to which I felt barely able to function within.

The next morning I intuitively knew that whatever the experience was showing me, it had not, in any way, gotten rid of the 'dark side' aspect of my psyche - which I had specifically asked for...so what was it that the experience was showing me? The answer to that question unfolded in the events of the day ahead of me, starting with the old lady stopping to give me a ride and who just happened to have been travelling with a little bird in a cage, in the back seat of her car.

The second part of the story unfolded when the lady dropped me off and I hitched another ride with a young guy who was going to the city I was heading for.
On the way, in between chatting about things, the guy put on a CD and I continued wondering what my experience was meant to show me.

My thoughts were that perhaps what I thought of as my 'dark side' was as necessary to my self as that of my 'light side' and that the experience I had in answer to my request, was to show me this.
As I was thinking these thoughts, the CD started playing a song and the chorus had the words 'brother wolf and sister moon' and appeared to be coinciding with my thoughts - perhaps a type of pareidolia in itself...

Embrace the wind with both arms
Stop the clouds dead in sky
Hang your head no more
And beg no more
Brother wolf and sister moon
Your time has come
Brother wolf and sister moon
Your time has come

but the most startling quality of the immediate experience was - as I was thinking about the 'dark side/light side' aspects of psyche, and hearing the song, feeling quiet startled with the serendipity of that moment, I turned my attention to the landscape and was immediately impressed by a cloud formation in the distant hills, which had the unmistakable image of a huge eye looking directly at me.
That was definitely a case of pareidolia, and one of the many moments in my life experience which has had a defining role in the development of and direction toward which my personality would move forward within.

GM: Solidarity

William: Without doubt. The connect was not only into learning to form a better understanding and acceptance about my 'self' - but in how you showed yourself to being an integral part of that understanding and acceptance, through the synchronicity and serendipity correlated between my internal thoughts and my external reality - in the moment.

GM: Journal - William Message Generation

William: From the link;

No clue at how others use it, but for me the first step was looking in my memory where i could find a place to hook this topic on. For me that was the old david icke forum, as they had a blossoming topic like this. Way bigger then we have here. Then i put my intent on and our friend will.i.am starts using his randomizer and the texts starts flowing and making sense in the form of subconscious hints that make me smile. Since i needed a little smile in my life, im really glad william didnt listen to me growling at something new and just fed me..

GM: In The Mirror - Mirror Sense
The One GOD With Many Names
The bits will suffice.

William: The 'bits' in themselves are mind-blowing. The wind may indeed 'blow my tears away' but you reminding me of this event-string in this manner, brings tears - of gratitude among other emotions - what can I say, except "Thank You".

GM: To Warm Them up to The Truth

William: That too. It is a privilege to be able to share my own experience with the reader...

GM: "Life is my predestiny - Providence is God to me"

William: "How about that"


10:23

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[Historical antecedents of modern agnosticism]
Feeling the complete engulfment of unconditional love

GM: Mystery Consensus Realities
Commendably Recommendable
Machine Learning
The Four Human Power Houses
Mahu Nahi
How
Entities of Particular Belief Systems
Different ways of supporting the same objective.

Post automatically merged: Dec 7, 2022

For some reason I am getting the message that my posts contain more

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Post automatically merged: Dec 7, 2022

letters than allowed.... there seems to be a problem with the boards functions...I cannot post the GMs at the moment.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Post automatically merged: Dec 8, 2022

The GMs I have tried to post in the last couple of days have been nowhere near that many characters. There appears to be a problem with the sites coding...

All I can do at present is provide a link to the GM, on another forum.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[William]

How to Bruise a Ghost - 3

121222 [Separate Selfishness Shining]

08:22 [The elephant in the room]

GM: I think it is like anything else, we grow up and cease practicing silliness.
Seductive Light

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[Is Life a Game ? Alan Watts about the Happening of Existence]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Self-confidence
A completely new paradigm Mapping Wholeness Tenacious
Evaluating
Personal boundaries

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

Flowers don't have brains.

Yet they display intelligence through behavior.

It is possible that what we identify as 'brain' [re identifying the function of] may not actually be confined to only small fatty grey-matter.
The planet itself, and the galaxy and indeed the whole universe may function in a similar manner as an animal brain. All the elements are there, so there is no reason why we should automatically take the mundane path of explanation over the intelligent path of explanation.

I never liked the term "fundamental reality. I see reality as a binary state - is or ain't.

Yet in reality Joey, it IS - so no binary necessary.
It is the conscious examination of what is, which is hampered by brains interpretation of its experience of reality, relayed to consciousness. It is scientific fact that the brain places its own interpretation on reality and in doing so, befuddles consciousnesses intelligent ability to see the true fundamental nature of the reality being experienced.

Sunflowers do not seem to display the same reaction to the same reality. The reaction is still obviously intelligent, requires no obvious brain, and achieves a more harmonious outcome - aligned with the natural order of everything. Seemingly in touch with fundamental reality as they respond to it unreservedly.

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

How to Bruise a Ghost
Blue Book Project
Cub
The Crabwood Cropcircle

They just add ambiance to the spooky...
Feel Be Still.
Infinite regress/progress in every direction, is a thing

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: In The Beginning...

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

I think Occam’s razor is in favor of creation over simulation because simulation adds a deeper layer of reality behind the simulation, while creation offers only one level (in that sense). That would put the onus on simulation theory to distinguish itself in some way as being the more rational view.

That is interesting as it shows you disagree that creation and simulation are two names for the one thing.
No doubt this will underpin the way this discussion unfolds as we disagree on that point.
For now though, I would like to lay it aside until such time as you clarify why you find it important to have such distinction.

Even if simulation theory is true, rationality would seem a better way to get at truth than blind faith. Yes, blind faith could just happen to stumble upon the truth, but it would be a stumbling that could just as easily stumble upon non-truth and treat it as truth.

This too, I will place to one side as my comment was merely to show you my attitude does not distinguish the one from the other in terms of any importance - faith has more to do with one connecting with the programmer(s) rather than one connecting with the program.

Since this is primarily to do with the idea we exist within a creation/simulation - that is the horse which requires hitching to the cart - so I am happy to focus upon the rational argument for C/S - starting with the idea that "Creation" is not different than "Simulation", even as the Bible speaks of Creation...

I certainly think simulation theory is logically possible.

Many a rational scientist also thinks it possible. Mostly they conclude that since we would not know either way, there is little point in pursuing the notion any further than science can take that.

In other words, if what we call "Real" was in fact "Simulated", then how are we to tell Real from Simulated?

From a Biblical perspective, this would not be under question because "Real" is the same as "Simulated" and how God made the Universe and put us here is part of that story.

So, how would you answer the question: “do we exist in a creation/simulation” and why?

My answer - with the current information I have - is that it is likely we exist within a C/S - a mindfully created thing rather than a fortunate accident of nature.

GM: Be transparent Respect yourself Self-respect The Mother and The Father
Let Us Move On Together Then
Permanence
[08:31]
[10:08]

GM: The Vast UICDevice
Gibberish
Conception
Necessary

William: Gibberish Conception Necessary ...This is part of the process of a growing human personality with Intelligent Consciousness - starting from scratch - as it were...Working With What Is Available against a Degenerative Force to Existence - re growing old and dying...our time here, involved with personalities, is limited.

GM: "Tributary Zones"
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
Everything Gets Old

Journal - William Message Generation

030322 Zero Three Zero Three Two Two = 356 What we call the experience of reality SCLx14+last LE per shuffle Dichotomy - A light breeze arriving and kissing my cheek at the same moment I am "thinking life is beautiful", is a message. - Freedom of Information Act Electronic Reading Room | CIA...

wizardforums.com

William: FTL;

Jim: Have you tried William S. Burroughs word lines?

William: Checking out WSB quotes - for example " Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer." I already have variants of this in my ComList.

Also it is apparent to me that ones 'mind' is vaster than we are led to believe...and that there are many levels of consciousness beyond our own, and that we are all connected mindfully in ways which we do not easily comprehend.

This system I am using can help the individual connect with the larger reality of the over-mind.

Rather than place the above WSB quote into my ComList [Journal], I prefer to post this and then get the link to the post and place that into my ComList, because it allows for even more scope than a single quote can offer - in relation to any future Generated Message which might include the link as part of the message being built.

William: Yes - sometimes people do reply to the Generating Messages threads, which was what I wrote today:

Nameless: Although I know the entire web operates from these rhythms I don't need to know how it works.

William: The important thing is to be able to show that it works. Some folk - such as yourself - may not be that interested in the mechanics, but others are.

Nameless: Seeing the lack of response here apparently no one else does either.

William: There have been 317 views in 6 days, so there appears to be some interest. I think it is too early to make a call re interested folk.

There is mostly a lack of response on all sites I share these GMs on. I have been doing so since January, and even though folk do not generally respond, there has been an obvious interest which doesn't seem to have waned over those 11 months. On two such sites, there have been over 24,000 views each, and the readership appears to be steady on all the sites I publish the GMs.

Nameless: So what is the purpose?

William: The purpose is to share these messages with the readers interested in Spiritual Evolution and related things such as OOBEs, NDEs, Consciousness, Astral Projecting, Lucid dreaming, Psychology [Jung in particular] and other such related topics.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM: Love Direction Mapping Wholeness
Avoid Blowing Things Out of Proportion

William: That is what the links help to achieve...

GM: "End Of Story" As The Saying Goes
What is "wisdom" to some is "spam" to others

William: Perhaps that is how Nameless is seeing the GM's presently...

GM: DeJaVu
Is There
"How to Bruise a Ghost"
(People Don't Like To Be Judged
Reminding one of how it all started and the different stages one goes through.)
Spiritual bypassing
The Unknown Knowable

William: Explore the cave of this experience and draw up maps, compare maps others draw up and share -share -share...

GM: Tell Your Story
Pusillanimous [showing a lack of courage or determination; timid.]
Okay Afterwards

William: A bit late for that by then - which is the point I suppose...

GM: DISCUSSION: Do Gods Need Us?


William: FTL;

Mider: I think the angels who are called gods, their job is to reach out to us and help them get to their level.

William: This is what I am suggesting re the "Personal Genie" [PG] aspect of theistic existence.

Theism exists because the PG is a real actual immaterial entity engaging with this material reality we experience as humans.

At angelic levels of consciousness [PG perspective] there is a slight confusion as to how humans dress them up into imagery and this confusion has led to the Angelic Realm [level of consciousness] lifting its game in conjunction with humans engaging with them in order to help make this possible...the overall result being, that humans too, lift our game.

AP="Angels"
Links And Symbols
Inertia
Unprecedented
Deactivate The Suppression Matrix
The Plateau of The Same Page
The message is clear then...

GM: Always Brother Wolf Sister Moon A grateful heart
Chaos Really Is Illusion
Not Wrong

10:41
[192]
Tempting Vision
Responsibility
Improve Human Being
Quantum Presence
Integral Network
Moderator Comment
Merging with the data
Atheists crack me up.
Smoke and Mirrors
The Way of the Shaman
Childhood Nightmares

[240]
The number one nine two
Language, Symbol and Alchemy
In good faith, if you will
Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams
…And Loving That Knowing…
The Connection Process
Out and about in the open

Post automatically merged: Dec 12, 2022

How to Bruise a Ghost - 4

131222 [Self-Awareness Stuff Happens]

07:58 [Beyond a shadow of a doubt]


GM: The Next Level
Acromyrmex [Leaf Ant]
Truncate [to shorten something by removing part of it. ]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

This is an interesting argument.

I do not agree with premise 2 for the following reason. When we think a thought, more than one things happens simultaneously, namely, that we are aware of the thought and if we wish to have the thought. If we do not wish to have the thought, then we destroy it before it is apprehended. If we wish to have the thought, then we apprehend it.

Our choice is in what thoughts to have or not.

This is more clear to those who have some level of spiritual awareness. Yes, I know many will just reject that notion and that is fine. I accept it because I experience it.

This does not explain where thoughts derive, but only what we can do with them re "accept or reject."

The idea of "free will" is therefore limited to that aspect but has no bearing on the source of the thought itself.

For example. If thought is the product of the environment then free will is limited to what the environment dictates, and what the environment dictates is not outright subject to a humans free will.

GM: Art
Unexpected
"Might as well just set it all at the feet of Mother Goose."
GOD is not an elitist.
Families
"We are not orphaned - we are authored"
Duel

William: Families Duel = 116
[116]
Families Duel
Illuminate
Eternity
Saturnalia
Sweet Talk
Way Back When...
Observant
Keep an Eye On
Without
Respecting
WindBlown
Henotheism
Dare greatly
Map Carvers

GM: Try
The Feminine Face of God
Crapulence [intemperance; debauchery; excessive indulgence]
How to Bruise a Ghost

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: Re: The Biblical God's conduct and culpability

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

I think being omniscient and omnipotent would give one free will. Since I am not omniscient and omnipotent, I can't know that for sure.

What process did you use in order to come to the declaration that being omniscient and omnipotent would give one free will/amount to one having free will?

I realize that if I were all-knowing and all-powerful, I would be free from all constraints and my will won't be determined by my genes, environments, nutrients and experiences.

Let us examine this idea together then.

I see immediately that if I were all-knowing. I would be constrained by my omniscience.

Thus I would have no free will in relation to being all knowing.

Yet - being also all-powerful, I would be able to break free from the constraints of being all-knowing.

Would you agree with this assessment, so far?

GM: This moment is the perfect teacher
To Experience All That Is
Successful replications
Temet Nosce [know thyself]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: Re: Generating Messages

How To Bruise a Ghost.

The evening is warm and the night sky full of stars. A crescent moon peeks above the Twelve Judges Mountain Range as Father and Son sit opposite one another, being warmed by the same fire.
William places another log on the fire and watches as a flurry of sparks ascend from the disturbance caused – he takes a sip of tea and listens as Father resumes speaking.

Manu Iti: All stories start with "Once Upon a Time"

William: Even the story of The Beginning?

Manu Iti: You know this to be true William, for every story could not have been told, if The Story of The Beginning hadn't happened.

William: Am I old enough to be told that story?

Manu Iti chuckles.

Manu Iti: Of course you are, My Son.

William: Thank You, My Father!

Manu Iti: I will begin first with the Earth, not because She was the very first thing in The Beginning, but because - in order to understand The Beginning we have to first understand our part in the story - our place in the scheme of All That Is.


William: And that begins with Earth Mother...

Manu Iti: Indeed.
The Mother was born of a vaster thing - our Grand-Mother - and we shall get to Grand-Mother in due course.
The Mother was placed within The Earth by Grand-Mother and became the mind of the planet. When this happened, Mother was a Child Herself - a new thing placed within the form of the planet, while at the same time, a part of The Ancient Mind of Grand-Mother...

William: How is that even possible, Father?

Manu Iti: It is possible through the power of forgetting.

The Ancient Mind of Grand-Mother spawned a thought in the form of a spark of light and placed it inside the middle of a dark and lifeless form, and in doing so, gave the form - Life.
In that action, the Earth became a living planet. She also became a new conscious entity...a being with a beginning, because the action of placing Her into a planet, erased all knowledge of ever having a prior existence as The Grand Mother.

William: Did The Grand Mother know this would happen?

Manu Iti: Yes. The Grand Mother new that this would continue for a time. The Grand Mother knew that Her Daughter would be orphaned by that lack of knowledge and this would result in a new Being which could operate successfully without having to have that knowledge - and that one day, The Daughter would come to know of The Grand Mother and reconnect...

William: Is that a good thing to do with a Child?

Manu Iti: Yes. It is how a Child becomes a Sovereign Entity. It is not done this way with Human Children - but there are elements of the process which do - naturally - occur to each of us.

William: Like - how we cannot recall anything but darkness, before we became aware of our existence?

Manu Iti: Yes.
__________________

GM: Get Comfortable
I am fine now with referring to my position as theistic, as agnosticism merges into the shadow behind me.
Selfish Attitude
Appreciating
Loving-kindness
Precipitate [cause (an event or situation, typically one that is undesirable) to happen suddenly, unexpectedly, or prematurely]
From the desperate depths of lightless dark
Dream Come True
I Think We Can Safely Say
It is a path already forged, ahead of human arrival

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

William: I suppose that it is the 'tricks' which have to be addressed because the illusions can induce anger in the personality which acts as a preventative for getting to know the 'tricksters'...from my own 'getting to know' I have discovered that the 'tricks' are not really 'tricks' so much as they are a product of how a personality interprets their experience.

The Visitation is one such example. I - as the personality experiencing the event - took issue and told the visitor to leave.
The visitor did leave, but not without first instilling within me - questions regarding my perceptions. Questions which have taken 30+years to come to answer.

The personality I am now, is not the same as it was way back when. Now I see the 'trick' was really just truth to which I was not expecting because I had little knowledge of such truth - way back when...

GM: Sweet Talk
Observant
Eternity
Dare greatly
Henotheism [adherence to one particular god out of several, especially by a family, tribe, or other group.]
Respecting
Without
Map Carvers
Way Back When...
Illuminate
Keep an Eye On
Way Back When...
WindBlown

William: What happened is that I incorporated that visitation experience with all the rest and all that were to follow...developing a relationship which can also be reflected through this Message Generating Process.

It is really taking the journaling of my life experience, and using that to my advantage in light of the "Bigger Mind"...

GM:The Wholeness Navigator
How can an omnipotent being regret anything?
Light-Maiden
Validate
Here-and-now
Persevere
Reality: "Talk to The Razor"
The Immune System
A Bit Of Cat And Mouse
“I wish I could auto like every post. This is like a "numbers station" to me.”

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?

William: It isn't immediately obvious that when folk are yapping about "GOD" they are talking about a Ghost. Same as when folk yap about Spirits....

Inquirer: Here, in the 21st century "ghost" has connotations rather different to those it had in the 17th century. If I said to you "I am gay" you'd infer a different meaning to what someone would have inferred in 1820 for example. That is you'd be misled into thinking I was homosexual.

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

I suspect that you and William had slightly different meanings in mind for "ghost" such that both of your statements are true from a particular point of view.

I have no problem in thinking GOD as a GHOST {GOD-HOST/G.HOST}

There is no excuse for regular contributors in the forum not getting the gist of my overall position as I also refer to GOD as "Consciousness" [and consciousness is invisible by nature just as are 'ghosts'] and I concur with the likelihood that we exist within a creation and that the creation we refer to as "reality" is indeed an Experiential Reality [experienced by all of us consciously/with consciousness] and I think of this reality as being the product of a Mind I refer to as "Cosmic" - that "Mind" = "GOD" and is invisible and I sometimes also refer to this Cosmic Mind as "The Ghost in The Machine" and created the machine [physical universe] in order to have the particular experience the machine can provide it with.

If the Inquirer thinks GOD is different from that, then I agree with JK and Diogenes and Difflugia that the Inquirer has to clearly explain the difference so we might all better understand the protest the Inquirer is making re the accusation being made that I am being 'misleading'.

GM: How to Bruise a Ghost
Conformal Cyclic Cosmology Meaningful
Golden nugget of truth
Poor Intransigence People [Intransigence - refusal to change one's views or to agree about something.]
That

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;Re: Generating Messages

GM: Discussing the Data

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The Word and List Strings
Nods
All The World
The Attitude
"Even so, I have full appreciation for your efforts, because even incorrect peer review is better than indifference."
Nurture You
...because death comes a-knockin' eventually...
Expression
Self-validation
Unprecedented
Lucidity
Being Born

William: The link leads to a post I wrote;
Recapping Event

What I am learning from this MGSystem is that "it" is not about me or you but about allowing for opportunity for any otherwise intelligent consciousnesses to impute their intelligence into the mix.

Re non-theists who are opposed to the idea of their being an overall mind behind [invisible/not easy to detect in] our visible Universe - I would say that they do themselves a disservice in resisting contact with said mind.

The way I have come to understand things re the nature of our shared reality - is that in opting for the theory of evolution with the addition of realization of the invisible mind, exposes the enormity of said mind re the time/space said mind has had to develop within.

Alongside that, is the realization that something which initially started out as one thing, became many things - so many things that trying to place a number as to how many things - is pointless.

Clearly fragmentation occurred as the mind developed - as can be seen in the evidence of the things themselves.

So the Galaxies became "Gods" and the Gods produced off-spring which are the Suns and planets continually forming - from beginnings to middles and to ends - and in doing so, providing the parent-Gods with Data of Experience.

I don't pretend to know what it is in the way of evidence that non-theists want in order to convince them to become theists.

But I do know that this evidence I am presenting, should be enough for anyone to seriously think about changing the way they see the world.

GM: “Humility means accepting reality with no attempt to outsmart it.”
Old
Ouija
"There Is Good Out There"
"Everything is a Message"
Hypnagogic

William:You are once more referring to The Ancient Grey Entity...

GM: The Great I Am

GM: What Is Normal
Inflame Emotions
Sensing A Life Mission
Eloah [mighty. Powerful personality]
"New information has to be inserted into old information and if that means a reinterpretation occurs, this in itself should not prevent new information being inserted into old information."
Two sides of the same coin Zero In On It Interpretation Narrow


08:22
[229]
God is Consciousness
Think outside the box
Humanities adventure
Central To The Vision
Smarter Than the Average
What is the meaning of life?
The Shared List Awesome

 

[William]

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.

151222 [Intellectually dishonest]

SCLx + select last LE per shuffle
[Preamble]
IYD – Catching a Blue Butterfly in your hands to show others -

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

- The Ishango bone -

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

- Evidential - Have A Look At The Map - Faithful - Hiding out in the barn - Gibberish - Don’t hide your Generated Messages - The two million year old mind that's in all of us. - Chamber Twenty Three -
AP= Chamber Twenty Three - A: To grow Human Personalities [=531]
[531]
[The Akashic Records ...because death comes a-knockin' eventually...
The Mirrors Align and from that, an orderly image reflected...]


06:31 [Looking behind the veil]


GM: It Is Our Nature
Context
Calculate the English language
Under the breath words

William: Under the breath words Context It Is Our Nature = 519
Central Purpose - QueenBee - Achievable Alternate Realities = 519

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[Quantum Mechanics PROVES Ancient SECRET KNOWLEDGE…] [RTS=6:27] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=1K9-hzV921c

GM: Idiosyncratic [relating to idiosyncrasy; peculiar or individual.]
Fearful Imaginations
"The Future Creates the Present"

William: I am still mulling on that concept as it is not easy to integrate due to the arrow of time...essentially it is saying that "the future creates the past" because our present is the futures past...let's see what it adds up to...
The Future Creates the Present = 325

So what else adds up to that, as my list currently holds...

[325]
The Symbol of Love Temporary
Mutual Dutiful Expression
Don’t hide your Generated Messages
The Future Creates the Present
Condescending Ideas About Imagination
Transactional Ghost In The Machine
Imposed Appropriates Observed
Debating Christianity and Religion

GM: Factotum [an employee who does all kinds of work.]
Union
The Purpose
An Exam
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: In The Beginning...

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

It appears that the making of things at this stage is largely done through automation - through an automatic process - such as what we now know re the process of evolution.

The seed appears to have the code within it, to become the tree when the conditions are in place for it to do so. [The physical laws and the natures of material things.]

I agree with the automation part, but the language is different when we come to humans.

In what way do you see the language used to describe the creation of humans, as being different?

I have no problem if the human species evolved from other species and was given a rational soul at some point;

What do you mean by "rational soul"?
Do you mean that this developed as part of the automated process of evolution?

The program of what to do is already part of the body set makeup. There is no requirement to teach humans to multiply and to go forth and subdue. Nor is there a requirement for humans to understand that they are within a created thing, or to know that YHVH even exists.

I agree with you. I think our conscience is also part of the program.

That is to say, you think that consciousness develops?

The KJV doesn't mention any breath - just life. Re your understanding of the beast which has life but not in the same way Adam had life, because Adam is not a beast, even that his form is made of the same type as the [other] animals

I don’t think the KJV is the best translation. In Hebrew, it’s nephesh hayyim (translated “breath of life” by the NIV, ESV, NRSV, and others), not just hayyim or “life”. I think humans and other animals share the characteristic of having the “breath of life,” the uniqueness for humans coming in being made in the image of YHVH.

The Hebrew word nephesh or nefesh (נפש, pronounced “neh-fesh”) in the Hebrew Bible generally translates to “soul”.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

At that, are you arguing that the "life" is something YHVH breathed into all living things [plants included] but the "soul" was an extra addition reserved for humans?

With this first creation story, there is no mention of YHVH making the humans alive, specifically by instilling within them The Breath of YHVH, and no logical reason for us to assume that this must have been the case, especially since there was an epoch before ancient times where we know that the human being was more "beast" than "man".

Genesis 7:22 uses a different term (nishmat hayyim) that is also often translated as “breath of life” and seems to be talking about the same element in animals, namely, that they are living beings.

In that, The Breath of YHVH can be considered to be that which powers up the lifeless [cadaver-like] form but not that which grants consciousness or anything else already programmed into the form?

Is this how you see it?

I think you are taking this as literal history when it’s not meant to be taken that way. It’s not meant to be a historical recording of how life came about scientifically or historically.

I would agree that the short story of the first creation is nothing like a scientific paper.

However, it would still be remis if what scientific papers have to say about how forms become what they do, cannot be equate with the first creation story.

If such cannot be equated, then the papers to follow would have to be the scientific ones.

However, I do not read anything within the first creation story which deviates or contradicts the science.

Therefore, while I am happy to agree with you that there is difference between how science say's it and how the Bible says it, the Bible is simply far more succinct, but no less accurate of its portray for that.
That is to say, the Bible story in principle is not for the purpose of instructing us on the intricacies of history or science, it does touch on these sufficiently for future human investigations which revealed evolution as the process.

Agreed?

There are no specific 'commands' which even suggest that humans should not eat animals. The author has omitted that aspect of what humans eat [the meat of animals] choosing instead to focus mention only on vegetation as the thing eaten, even in contrast to what the author must have known at the time of writing, about human eating behaviors.

I do think this is telling us that humans were originally meant to be vegetarians because in 9:3, YHVH tells Noah and his family that YHVH is giving them animals for food, just as YHVH gave them green plants to eat (in 1:30).

My point is that humans were not meant to do anything if there was no command either encoded within the form or spoken by an invisible voice, which forbade certain behaviors.

Thus, I cannot agree at this point, that humans were originally meant to be vegetarians as an explanation for why eating meat for food was not mentioned alongside eating vegetation.
The idea that YHVH changed the coding with Noah - well after Adam - may give a false impression as to when humans first began to eat meat instead of just vegetation.

For now though, Adam and Noah are not Characters within the First Creation Story as they have Adam has yet to be created, and Noah born from that linage.

It is not addressed by the first creation account, but is addressed in the account of evolution. In that, eating other animals and what is forbidden and what is not, is decided by the critters themselves, [re their coding] rather than a voiced command from YHVH.

I think evolution can account for neither human rationality nor human morality being objective, but I agree that it can account for non-human animal behavior.

The eating of animal meat is part of the story of evolution. Humans as hunters were known to exist, and that without the eating of animal meat, the human race could not have as easily survived as plants were not as readily available and had less of a shelf-life.

Early humans followed the animals [as food source], and the animals followed seasonal events and consistently migrated.

Farming came much later.

Human rationality was therefore working in that humans observed animals [beasts of the field] as a food source and observed other animals [beasts of the ?] hunted the field-beasts and those hunter-beasts were specifically designed in form [claws teeth strength] to catch and consume their food in that way.

Humans would have had to have rationalized that they could mimic the hunter-beasts even that the human form was not so obviously designed as a hunting device.

Add to that, a human was as much a source of food for hunter-beasts as were the field beasts.

So the uniqueness of the human form, was that it was neither hunter or field beast, but was capable of being both, and YHVH designed it that way. [through the coding].

Evolution also shows us that death happened, as part of the nature of the coding - and one of the reasons why it was necessary to breed - because death happened...likewise why it was necessary to eat - because eating maintain being alive.

I agree death was a part of reality prior to the “Fall”.

Therefore, we have a possible way in which Adam could have understood 'death' as something which naturally happened.
If so, then Adam too, would have understood that his form, like every other form, would eventually die.
And if this were the case, then, when YHVH informed Adam that should Adam eat the forbidden fruit, that Adam would 'surely die' and 'on the day' - YHVH must have been referring to a death which was different to that of the body simply expiring.

YHVH was not talking about Adams body being that which would die on that day.
Nor was YHVH referring to Adam as the body, but rather, YHVH was referring to the personality that was Adam.

Agreed?

...and a decision made at some point in that process, where YHVH chose to make *Itself known to the human animal, and along with that, to tweak the coding through the relationship as a means for humans to learn to understand that they can change the coding of their instinct by overriding/re-writing it

I don’t see the text showing that humans are overriding/re-writing their previous beast-like coding; they are like beasts in ways, but created differently in other ways.

I am not wanting to conflate the 'human body' with 'humans'.

The body set is the hardware made alive by the software installed as coding, and while it does influence the personality to whatever degree the personality using it, might allow, that influence is not so hard-wired that the body set somehow "becomes a 'human'".

Rather, it is not the form which should be described as 'being human' [a human being] but the personality that is grown within the form. It is the personality that YHVH is interested in and regards as the 'human' - not the form.

The form was designed to die. YHVH was referring to the personality when Adam was told "YOU shall surely die on that day."

Agreed?

[*I use the word in respect for the idea that YHVH is both "male and female" rather than one or the other]

This is just a tangent, but the text doesn’t say YHVH is both male and female. It says that both male and female are made in YHVH’s image. I don't think YHVH is male or female or both.

I do not think that is a tangent. It is important to understand in the context of both creation stories.

For now my only question re that is;

Q: What is the image of YHVH?

GM: Acknowledge any song playing in your mind
Planned obsolescence
Ship Shape

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[Does Time Cause Gravity?] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=UKxQTvqcpSg [RTS=8:03]


William: Love it! The random time stamp I selected gives comment on something which "was just talked about"...in that, the timeline has it [re the individual personality] who comes into the reality experience in a Tabula Rasa state - smack bang in the 'middle' of something well under way...and is 'fed' whatever information it becomes exposed to re that experience...

GM: The Neutral Zone is the vaster reality of non-judgementalism

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: All too often we - the children - just have to take on board whatever is shoved into our awareness and cannot question its validity - because we don't have the knowledge to perform investigations while yet children...We tend to bend our heads in worship of the words of those who have come before us...
The way forward is to adopt the position of "the neutral zone" which prevents us from worshiping or idolizing the words [information] we are exposed to at the onset, that we can more clearly test the spirit of said words.

GM: Embracing the unknown
Unconscious Mind Inertia
The Mother

William: The "Storyteller"?
Mother: Once upon a time....

07:!5
Like Tracks in Stone
Aligned inside/outside
All fingers and thumbs
The Last Question
The objective standard
Unconditional Love
Welcome all experience
We oppose deception
Afraid of The Unknown
The Same Information
YHVH in particular

 

[William]

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. - 2

161222 [We wander out the day so long]

06:57 [All present and correct]

GM: The Hounds of Judgement
GOD is not an elitist.
"The only thing the Holy Ghost is unable to forgive, is that which individuals are unable to forgive of themselves"
Miraculous
From The Source
♬The Light in The Dark Everyone a great spark every one of us all here together♬
Synchronicity and the Holographic Universe Coincidence Illusion
Moon
Father Wound
Read On
A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind
I Know William

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: Can you explain the doctrine of salvation better than the Bible does?

Mortal man: It doesn't have to be complicated. Spell it out like one, two, three. Or at the very least try to head off any misunderstanding. If I may be so bold I would like to offer my humble suggestion on one such verse: Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. God says: "Hold on a minute, Mark. You haven't been listening to my Spirit. If you use those exact words a lot of folks are gonna think they have to be baptized to be saved along with believing. Just not true. In fact, in a couple of thousand years, there would be a whole denomination of Christians who will think that if they don't get dunked in water they will go to hell. That would be pure hell (pardon the expression) if one is about to die and there's no river nearby. So strike the baptizing part and next time you start to write be more careful, I can't hold your hand all the time."

William: Unless what is experienced by folk in the next phase is determined by our own personality and accompanying attitude, and some of those - perhaps even most [at that point re biblical warnings and what have you] die only to experience some type of hell which they simply created for themselves.

Perhaps YHWH thought it was appropriate enough not to intervene as you suggest he should have?

Ultimately we each have to deal with our demons...

William: The question is a cart before the horse as it fist must be established as to why the Bible God made us so incoherent. Perhaps the answer to that can help us understand the doctrine...

That's a good question. My guess is we inherited it from chimpanzees.

William: Unlikely - More likely that we inherited it from the collective specie memories through the DNA coding and it is up to each of us to deactivate the less attractive aspects while strengthening the more attractive aspects.

Those are the angels and demons we are dealing with in the shadowy realms of the subconscious....inherited Archetypes...

GM:Okay Afterwards
Looking After Poor People
Is a Constant
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

"What was it designed for?"
"What is the nature of the designer{s}"

Yes, studying nature only provides a general revelation of God and does not lead to any specifics about God.

In theology, general revelation, or natural revelation, refers to knowledge about God and spiritual matters, discovered through natural means, such as observation of nature (the physical universe), philosophy, and reasoning. Christian theologians use the term to describe knowledge of God purported to be plainly available to all mankind. General revelation is usually understood to pertain to outward temporal events that are experienced within the world or the physical universe. The definition may be extended to include human conscience or providence or providential history.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

General revelation leads only to Deism or Theism. To get to more specifics about God would require special revelation.

Special revelation is a Christian theological term that refers to the belief that knowledge of God and of spiritual matters can be discovered through supernatural means, such as miracles or the scriptures—a disclosure of God's truth through means other than through reason.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I would also add to that comparative religion since religions makes claims and one would need to choose which one of the religions makes more sense.

I consider the main source of special revelation in Christianity is the Bible, which of course this thread argues for its truthfulness and reliability. I would also add it argues for it without the need for any particular assumptions, specifically, the inerrancy of the Bible. And through the Bible, we understand what was the universe created for and the nature of God.

GM: Ensure
Glad One Asked
The Deeper Reality Ooky Spooky Too
Hush!
Be Aware
Even
Extreme
Non-Ordinary
Emotions
Unconscious
God Eat Data Heal Cub
A Drop of Consciousness in an Ocean of Tears
I am on a Madventure William’s song "I can laugh along with you"

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[Scientists Just Detected Massive Structure Hiding In Deep Space] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=hfD7cyF-H2g [RTS=6:06]

William: There appears to be a spiritual connect "acting upon us" as well...attracting us...

GM: In William's Room
Intelligent

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant?

The supernatural is usually invoked when there is no current natural explanation for the phenomenon or the natural explanation is merely not accepted.

And that is the general crux of the argument. If there is no current viable natural explanation (and none that are even remotely possible), then a supernatural causation is a plausible explanation.

There is that big IF to consider. When will we know that there is actually no viable or remotely possible explanation? One can't simply invent an explanation and call it supernatural which is basically what is happening now. The supernatural must demonstrably exist first and then, as William suggested, it really becomes part of what is natural. Something remains in the realm of the invisible until we are able to see it and then it belongs with the visible.

This has to be the truth of it.

Things of the mind are transposed into nature and therein effect natural outcomes. That is the only natural manner in which the invisible becomes visible.
The mind [things of] is always within "the realm of the invisible" however, - as is evident - such still 'belongs with the visible' because the visible acknowledges that the realm of the invisible exists and is functioning within the realm of the visible.

If - at any stage of The Game a god-being emerges from the invisible into the visible, we can examine the event scientifically.

Until then, there is no event to examine...but there are still events of the mind to examine...and Cosmic Mind is not off the table just because it is largely invisible as any object other than nature itself...

GM: Presence Telepathy
"Generative adversarial network"
...
The God of The Bible
Strengthen your boundaries It Was Tough Going, But Rewarding All The Same.

William: The God of The Bible Strengthen your boundaries It Was Tough Going, But Rewarding All The Same. = 893

[893]
Religious beliefs are a many-barbed growth wishing to own the rights on the mind behind creation
The God of The Bible Strengthen your boundaries It Was Tough Going, But Rewarding All The Same.
Consciousness does not know what it looks like, but can be observed through how it acts...
"The control room for earth; it is the CEO’s office, the place from which instructions are given."

GM: Fire
Interpretation is secondary to the process
A fish out of water
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
One Language Intelligent Network
Recognise
Emotional wounds

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: Evil thoughts?

William: Given what we understand of DNA et al - things which were once socially accepted - taken for granted - done without guilt - which are then considered to be evil by a more modern society which has connected the dots and discovered therein that the act of abusing children has social consequences primarily in the negative - this works against the society advancing and is thus seen as a threat which requires dealing to.

Thinking about [fantasize about] molesting children may be a throwback connection to those former actions we can inherit but if they are not recognized as such and dealt with accordingly, the chances one will eventually be dissatisfied with mere fantasy and proceed to actualizing will significantly increase and the results will not be easy to deal with for either the victim nor the victimizer.

One may not be able to stop the birds flying overhead, but one is able to stop them nesting in ones hair.

GM: The conversation is very informative.
The Omega Point

The Omega Point is a supposed future when everything in the universe spirals toward a final point of unification. The term was invented by the French Jesuit Catholic priest Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (1881–1955).

07:20
As well as that pot of gold...
From Prison To Paradise
Closed Loop Production
The Blank-Slate Borderlines
The fine tuning argument
Dissipated structure
Emotion Rides The Prow
All under a question mark

 

[William]

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. - 3

171222 [True happiness Awake Be here now]

07:46 [Universe of Quantum]


GM: William and QueenBee

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

William: While there is truth to in your assessment here - something I also came to the conclusion of - if one doesn't factor in that the Christian idea of God is a false image of a Real Entity [I call 'It" the Cosmic Mind, but I have other names for it too.] then one loses the opportunity to do connect and converse...

What this allows me to achieve, is to connect with that Mind despite the false image Christianity [and religion in general] have superimposed upon it. This also insures that religion in general has no say in my communing with said Mind. Well they might try and have a say, but that is irrelevant and so does not work in their preventative measures re that.

Win/win re The Mind and Me.

GM: Vision
The Father
Enlightened
Word-String
Significance

William: The Father Enlightened Word-String Significance = 440
[440]
Elementary Conclusion a belly full of laughs.
There is no reality without perception
We cannot hinder the process, but we can help it.
Observing the substance of your own mind
The Father Enlightened Word-String Significance

GM: This
Heuristic [enabling someone to discover or learn something for themselves. proceeding to a solution by trial and error or by rules that are only loosely defined. ]

GM: Species
Enlighten Discussion Forum
Discussing the data
Simulating large scale structure
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
Out of the doldrums
To
Emotion Rides The Prow

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

So the point of discussion for this thread is....how about you? For the "evolutionists", can you relate to the creationists' way of thinking and behaviors? For the creationists, are there behaviors from the other side that baffle you, and you just don't understand? Do you look at folks like me and think to yourselves, "I just cannot relate to his way of thinking?"

I don't see the problem re the above because I do not view "evolutionists" as opposite from "creationists" although I understand the general differences between the two groups boil down to both thinking that the other either excludes or includes the idea of the universe being a creation - implying a creator - and the idea that a creator can apply to the theory of evolution is often overlooked or pronounced as "unnecessary" and I also see no logical reason why the age of this universe is a necessary matter of contention.

Perhaps it is generally understood that to be a 'creationist' one has to believe in biblical writ, rather than simply understand that there is sufficient evidence to conclude it is most likely we exist within a creation, and in that, the answer to "which" religious idea of god 'did it', becomes redundant.

In saying as much, I personally do not easily relate to the current general-thinking of either "evolutionists" or "creationists".

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Time Does Not Exist Within an Eternal Reality.
Wish Great Ideas
Ectogenesis [the development of embryos in artificial conditions outside the uterus.]
In the Mind
Read On
Eventually
Argument
Duel
Creative

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

Cryphius: As some people have pointed out, Lucifer's association to Satan or a fallen angel is sketchy. It seems to have happened somewhere in Medieval folklore. I'm not an expert on Christian history and not sure exactly how it happened.

But most people I have seen who honor Lucifer do associate him with the intellectual side of Satanism. Specifically, there's the old Gnostic belief that the Serpent in the Garden of Eden was not the enemy of mankind but the liberator of mankind. In this configuration, YHWH is a false god who imprisons humanity in ignorance. The serpent is a messenger from Holy Wisdom, a higher deity. The serpent bids Eve to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, thereby liberating her from YHWH's imposed ignorance.

From there it's easy to draw parallels to other figures in mythology and folklore who try to help humanity with knowledge and are often punished for it by a cruel god that wants to keep them in ignorance (Prometheus and his punishment from Zeus being probably the best known instance in Occidental mythology).

I personally see Lucifer as an archetype. Whereas most Satanists seem to concentrate on the material and carnal aspects of Satanism or the rebellious aspects, to me Lucifer focuses on the intellectual aspects.
________________

130622
Fearlessness neutralizes fear

SCLx7 + select last LE per shuffle
Shining light - F2 - July Nineteen Fifty Two Washington DC - Comprehend - Test The Waters - We experience fear in order to give us the opportunity to overcome that which triggers the fear - Television

RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

AP= The Fog Is Lifting Water The Garden

William: The deranged can come about...become arranged.

GM: As In
Clear
Self-love
Changes mind when truth is presented
Wonderful

William: Wonderful Clear Self-love Changes mind when truth is presented = 621
[621]
Everyone: "In space nobody can hear you scream" Saturn: "Hold my beer"
The Astonishing Simplicity of Everything Behind The Scenery


GM: The World has a Spiritual Design


William: From this months GMs re Saturn and Spirits;

William:Add to that Saturn...the possibly Mother of invisible entities which are self aware...what humans think of as 'spirits' - and we have characters explaining mythologies.
I mention Saturn primarily because of the Signature Mark at Her pole - "YHVH" - a Game-Clue
So.. we "Spirits" emerged from the physical stuff? I don't think so, but for the sake of argument, agree to think of it in those terms for now...but wherever the "spirit" derives, we are able to utilize the physical stuff in order to then create through physical life forms because we are actually the very beings which allow for the lifeform to be alive - to be living - it is within the living that the sign of life is observed but the Ghost within that remains largely mysterious and hidden...

William: More on this with Manu Iti and William Re: How To Bruise A Ghost

William:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William reads from his Tablet...

"Prior to humans YHVH provided spiritual bodied beings to fulfill that responsibility -- some of which abandoned their earthly estate:"

What do you make of that, Father?

Manu Iti took another sip on his brew, before answering.

Manu Iti: Well Son, as to the first part of the statement - this would appear to be the case. As to the second part of the statement, if some 'abandoned' the "Earthly Estate" - where is the evidence that this occurred? What does it mean specifically?

William: I don't know Father. Where is the evidence supporting the first part of the statement?

Manu Iti: YHVH does leave a mark on things, which helps us to formulate hypothesis. In this case, it appears that Saturn could be evidence as what the birthing chamber of Spirit Beings is, re planets.

William: You mean to say that Spirit Beings - the ones spoken of - are produced through the planet Saturn?

Manu Iti: Yes. Saturn being that which produced a more refined type of consciousness which was formless and thus 'spirit'.

William: What do you mean by 'refined', Father?

Manu Iti: Free from the burden of a body-set and self aware - more refined in that way, than the condition of human consciousness - re comparing, Son.

William noted his Father's wry humor and smiled accordingly.

William: I see what you did there! "Comparison"

The fireside companions chuckled.

William: So how does Saturn connect with Earth re the belief that spiritual bodied beings were first commissioned by YHVH to tend to the Earth.

Manu Iti: The "commission" would have to have been a program inserted into the Spirit Beings instinct - along the same lines as the commission by YHVH to reproduce and to subdue the Earth...in that sense - this is an ongoing result of the original commission, rather than the Spirit Being abandoning the post, as the message to you stated.

William: The messenger took his cue from a biblical insert

Once again, William manipulates the screen of his Tablet and pulls a file,and reads the quote.

William:

"Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Manu Iti: This sounds to me like human appropriation of another culture in order to make humans appear more special than the allegedly neglectful Spirit Being.

William: I notice Father, that you are referring to the Spirit Being in the singular, whereas the biblical script refers to them in the plural.

Manu Iti: Correct. I do so on account that - even biblical script has it that 'spirits' are 'grouped' and those groupings represent service to the overall Mind...humans have split this Mind into two opposing Minds - which may or may not be a case of uninformed assumption.

William: How are we to tell?

Manu Iti: It is not easy to do so. We have to apply imagination to the whole storyline as a thought experiment, based upon the premise that at least one Spirit Being was grown by YHVH and had inserted within Its Psyche, the commission by YHVH, to interact with the Earth.

William: Go on...

Manu Iti: Fast forward to an epoch whereby this Spirit Being advances sufficiently to move outside of the influence of its Parent-Planet, Saturn, and the conscious or subconscious instinct to focus upon the planet Earth had that Spirit Being move - not only over the planet Earth - but to go inside the Earth and - from that position, design and create life-forms in and on the surface of Earth.

William: Hmmmm... intriguing...

Manu Iti: Further to that, the Spirit Being divested itself INTO said life-forms in order that the forms would animate with life.

William: Thus - a possible description as to what "The Breath of YHVH" and "The Image of YHVH" represent, re my current conversation with Tanager?

Manu Iti: Correct.

William: But if the Spirit Being was created by YHVH and encoded with the impulse to get creative with Earth, how can the Spirit Being refer to Itself as "YHVH" when interacting with Humans - how can it be said to have created Itself?

Manu Iti: Is YHVH not a "Spirit Being"?

William: Yes - YHVH is a Spirit Being.

Manu Iti: Then why should a Spirit Being not be able to represent YHVH, in relation to - supposed - 'non' spirit beings, such as what many humans currently believe that they are?

William: I have no answer to that question, right now.

William paused as he formulated his next question in his head.

What is the evidence that Saturn is marked by YHVH - that a possible contender-planet could be said have been used for this purpose, re the premise?

Manu Iti beamed an image from his Tablet, onto the screen of the local atmosphere

Manu Iti: This.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

08:07 [242]
Disclosure of knowledge
Let yourself be taught
Give all things a fair hearing
All learning is remembering
Love Unconditionally

 

[William]

In fact you are not the only one in here struggling for truth. Truth is the opposite of falsehood.
With age you will get there. A Magus is aged. You realize how important truth is.

Wisdom is nothing else but truth. With more time it gets condensed to an essence. Aging does this if you are not a complete idiot.

Ipsissimus means you developed to the core of truth. I am working on this since 2000. Also, I am not important. Truth.

I love your inspiring work. Keep that up, please.

Hi Öwnchef

Today's GM just mentioned your post and reminded me that it deserves pointing out re the particulars of wisdom equaling truth...thank you for your encouragement...

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2022

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. - 4


191222 [Faith-based beliefs are non-negotiable]

05:44 [The Father - in The Mother.]


GM: Noticing Synchronicity

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

The post was self evident as related/connected to the original thread where I was ordered not to share the data of the Generated Messages because these were considered to be "Spam".

Other forums have not only accepted my Generated Messages to be 'other than spam" and allowed them to be published, but the upshot [as seen in the snapshots as evidence] is that the readership is consistent, indicating that the messages themselves are anything BUT the "Gobbledygook" [incoherent] nonsense that the hardnosed skeptics on this site deemed them to be and classified them as SPAM.

I thought I would pop in and share the evidence as I was interested in seeing how the evidence would be treated.

Since I have readership elsewhere, and the mindset hereabouts has made itself clear, the need for ya'll to accept my evidence is non-existent so it is not a case of feeling like anyone is conspiring against ME.

If anything, they who hide from such evidence, conspire against themselves.

I put it down to my generous loving nature of not wanting anyone to miss out on anything...

Apart from that, what else is there to say?

GM: Eventually one can cease doing the tests and accept the results.

William: Understood.
Know when spending time is wasting time...

GM: From the desperate depths of lightless dark
Respect others
Something Mystical To Be In Awe Of
Teaching Music
"It Was Tough Going, But Rewarding All The Same."
Point of Contact
F2

William: If I remember Frank's Maps, Focus Two is the bridge between my awakened dominant reality and the full-blown Astral of Focus Three

GM: Watch Your Step
Create Your Own Spirit Ship
Phantasma The Freedom Of Friendship Simulacra

William: Yes - the perception of something that has no physical reality; of the mind;
It is an interesting word combo "No Physical Reality"
The friendship does develop with an image or representation of someone or something - In The Mind...
For Tam, it is the voice of Her Dear Lord...
For me, it is - among everything else - this Message Generating Process.
This means that what is of 'The Mind' can be reflected off the physical domain - the effect is startling - in a nice way...resulting is a specific Freedom Of Friendship...due to the interrelationship between Minds.

GM: The ongoing objective is to get this knowledge out into the public domain
Re Abusive Expression Of All Types.
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
An Exam [Virtual]
Construction
Conscious Intelligence Without Wisdom Puzzles/Mysteries...
Be transparent Respect yourself Self-respect The Mother and The Father
Ubiquitous [present, appearing, or found everywhere.]
The Big Shift
OOBE Target Technique
Eggs In Nests

Journal - William Message Generation

This thing got out of hand. Lost in a glass globe back in 1974, returned but refurbished nonetheless. Science: A phenotype of natural freedom achieved through statistical rituals of intersubjective projections. God: Eshe eher eshe. Point made. Inventor of the glass globes 'n all. POD/592&77...

wizardforums.com

William: FTL;

Öwnchef: In fact you are not the only one in here struggling for truth. Truth is the opposite of falsehood.
With age you will get there. A Magus is aged. You realize how important truth is.

Wisdom is nothing else but truth. With more time it gets condensed to an essence. Aging does this if you are not a complete idiot.

Ipsissimus means you developed to the core of truth. I am working on this since 2000. Also, I am not important. Truth.

I love your inspiring work. Keep that up, please.

William: Ipsissimus means knowing my own very self. I think it important re truth, that if one thinks YHVH is important [re supporting initiative et al] then one should at least see The Truth in that, one is important - but not in the traditional worldly 'celebrity' sense - a fine-line with plenty of grey areas to test things out within... Öwnchef is showing understanding, compassion and encouragement. "You are not alone".

GM: Callum's Eighth Point
“I love your inspiring work. Keep that up, please.”
Faithful
Love Takes One For The Team

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[INSIGHTS BEYOND SPACE TIME - What this new physics theory can teach us about the universe] [RTS=13:23]ww.youtube.com/watch?v=FeuwQHfXyzY

William: "Spacetime is Doomed" - we have no means in which to see beyond the borders of our dominant reality experience - and we have to engage with the invisible MIND to help us to connect with that which exists - but is unseen by the sensory circuitry of our body sets.

GM: "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
Training the mind
A force for good
All Things Are In Order
Old Restrained Overseeing Director of Operations on Earth
Balance
Experience is the best teacher
All on The Same Page
Pirates
All fingers and thumbs
Narrative warfare

William: Narrative warfare Pirates All fingers and thumbs
Re the Holographic Experiential Reality Simulation
What degree of influence do they have on that Mind-Field?

GM: The individual will of a growing personality is better entrusted to YHVHs overarching Will.
Tetrahedron

William: Hmmm...this reminds me of when I first engaged with the Star of David Symbol and considered that to represent the three components of YHVH with the three components of the individual - and these being brought together - symbolically representing the integration of the individual personality with that of YHVH.

MERKABAH
[59]
Wish
Copy
The God
MERKABAH
Breathe
Let Go

GM: One should pay noted attention to the mark of YHVH on the worm’s end...

GM: Micro Reflections of a Macro Reality
Pleasantries extended to you and yours.
The Hologram of Deception
Discussing the data
Histrionic [excessively theatrical or dramatic in character or style. melodramatic behaviour designed to attract attention. an actor.]
The Fog Is Lifting
A Bit Of Both Yes
Informing
If we get something wrong in the beginning, anything we then rationalize based on a false reading, will also be incorrect.
One Whom Ought Be Inwardly Known
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
Infinitely Infinitesimal
Positive Social Connections

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

I must ask then, what exactly is your position then?

Natural Neural Neutral.

is the universe deterministic or not?

If the energy which causes mass is mindful, then the universe is created mindfully, thus is determined by said mind to be as it is, re the mass.
If the energy which causes mass is mindless, then the universe is accidental, thus is non-determined, re the mass.

does free will exist or not?

If the energy which causes mass is mindful, then the universe is created mindfully, thus is determined by said mind to be as it is, re the will.
If the energy which causes mass is mindless, then the universe is accidental, thus is non-determined, re the will.

The will can only work within the boundaries of the freedom attainable re those boundaries.

Either way, I cannot see that the existence of free will is a reality in this universe, given the variables available to us with will.
Therefore I have to currently conclude that the idea of free will is conceptional rather than real.
{same applies to Mathematics and Time}

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

do you believe the universe is deterministic or not? Can I get a straight answer?

My position [Natural Neural Neutral.] prevents me from forming beliefs on any subject.
I lean toward the realization that the universe is deterministic, rather than is an accident.

the actual question I asked was "what caused determinism to exist?" you say that "we don't know" but we do know that it cannot have been determinism, logically, rationally we reach that realization.

Okay. We do know that something caused the universe. We don't know the nature of that which caused it other than it is called "energy".

IF the energy is mindful, THEN the universe was created through intent, implying determinism, logic and rationality.
IF the energy is mindless, THEN the universe was not even created implying non-determinism, non-logic and non-rationality.

Causality, determinism, cause and effect, laws of nature - if they do exist -

It appears to be the case that they do indeed exist.

cannot be attributed to themselves not unless you want to abandon science.

Then what is left would have to be that the Energy which creates the universe, is mindful.

GM: Shoe
Large Hadron Collider
The Brain Is Trained To recognize Patterns
Seductive
Fearless
Make a list for that

William: The Fearless Brain Is Trained To recognize Seductive Patterns = 619
One can simply shrug and tell oneself “It doesn't really matter" = 619


GM: Two sides of the same coin Zero In On It Interpretation Narrow
The Power Of...
Cautiously

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Nazi Space Agenda

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

I am saying this universe contains evil regardless of whether it is the product of a creative mind or not. The existence evil, is a problem (because it is unexpected) for the thesis that it is the product of a creative mind; but not a problem for the thesis that it is a mindless happenstance (as there is no expectation with re: evil one way or the other.)

Okay - thanks for clarifying.

Given that it has been proven that true random does not exist, mindless happenstance is off the table as an 'explanation' for this existence.

Therefore, IF this universe contains evil and is also the creation of a creative mind, why is it an 'unexpected problem'? What do you mean by that? Why should it matter one way but not the other?

As for fizzer, I've already pointed out that it's good while it last; as for sacrificing a perfectly functional planet/space ship, no, I am speaking of abandoning it because it is foundering, that's not a sacrifice.

Assuming you are truthfully interpreting what is happening re the planet, does this not get back to the argument that the process of this foundering could be turned around by the very minds and money currently invested in escaping that outcome - an outcome which said minds share the greater part of being responsible for making happen in the first place.

Indeed, the philosophy has more than hints of Nazism in it, which is something we shouldn't be too surprised about, given the fact that the space program might not have got its legs if it were not for the Nazi scientists employed by the superpowers at the end of the last WW.

Meh, not gonna throw the baby out with the bath water. Rocket science is useful whether it came from Nazi scientists or not.

Perhaps mainly useful to the agender of those willing to save themselves at the cost of an entire species they use and then abandon, to attempt this self-serving salvation.

Any specie occupied in trying to escape the bounds of their planet even at the sacrifice of the life of said planet is not only twisted in its thinking, but doomed to fail big-time.

Such a giant goose-step for "mankind" cannot end well...

Why are you even labelling the boiling of Earth by the sun in the far future as a "sacrifice" in the first place? It's rather odd to apply such a label to a natural occurrence.

Meh...this idea that what is going on re this space program agenda as "preparation" for a natural event which is way in the distant future doesn't ring true.
It is an attempt at abandonment of the hard problems of humanity, through investment in poorly thought out strategies of selfish intent.

There is no baby in such bathwater.

eta;

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM: Discernment
Identify any ‘atheist’ in the story? Certainly not The Devil!
Communicating with Consciousness - The Nature of The Mind
Like stubbing ones minimus
Caught in their mischievous false opinions
Speak
Embracing the shadow
Hidden Treasure
Jesus Christ
Tracks In The Snow

William:
[676]
Why would the atheist care how many people believe in magic or souls?
Tracks In The Snow Embracing the shadow Hidden Treasure Jesus Christ
So Far Into The Past You May As Well Take A Pick And Shovel With You


06:51
[192] !
Improve Human Being
Integral Network
Smoke and Mirrors
Quantum Presence
The Way of the Shaman
Atheists crack me up.
Responsibility
Childhood Nightmares
Moderator Comment
Merging with the data
Tempting Vision

GM: One mind - Many outposts

 

[William]

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. - 5


201222 [Data actual realistic communication]

06:50 [This Is My Kind Of Fun]


GM: The Eigengrau Mind Screen
A time prior to human beings
Sophia and Han
Dogs of the sea
One has to take care to process the thoughts of the inner critic making sure that they align with the truth.
Prison
Idealist
It’s a living thing
Living Forever In this Universe
Fire

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

The quicker way to say that is "God" is the "Life" - and more comprehensively, the consciousness which experiences the nature of the Holographic Experiential Reality Simulation [HERS] and learns through said experience of that nature, ways in which to 'make the experience easier' and thus morals evolve through the natural course of nature unfolding re consciousnesses involvement within said nature.

That way, the 'gap' is filled...

GM: Overmorrow
I Am... also the Dreamer, Dreaming the Dream

William: This would be an excellent thing to keep in mind if I ever have another OOBE...well eventually I will do... You are having the same Dream as me. With me always...

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: Time...

GM: Content
Ugly is just "in the eye of the beholder" as is Beauty.

William: Well yes...I understand that YHVH has a use for certain personalities being grown. Re that, of what practical point is this particular universe, in that one should remain here indefinitely?
Re that, is the personality placed within some type of mechanical form [re Han and Sophia] rather than these current biological ones?
Is it possible that when AI become fully sentient, that this is what has occurred...a personality has been inserted into the hardware?

GM: Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
Presence
Self-talk Root of all evil
The Mainstream Program Think "The Ghost" Conspiracy Emotions.
Hiraeth [deep longing for something, especially one's home.]
The Old Soul; Think "Total Recall" but on a far grander scale…
What Is The Point? Sadness.

William: Yes. That is it really. I am not entirely enthusiastic about the setup. It is all just dust rock fire and gas...with the occasional Gem...the main overall point would be to engage with the support of keeping life going within the Universe - keeping the Ghost active and engaged in a fairly never-ending activity - certainly an exceptionally long activity, since the Universe is still in its infancy.


GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

There is nothing that I have found in the definitions of "authoritative" or "inspired" that suggests inerrancy.

Very good.

However, the highest standard would be expected of an entity with the characteristics attributed to the God of the Bible.

If humans wrote the Bible, and not God, then why would this be a necessity?

One might overlook minor errors, even from God-inspired scripture, but the level of ambiguity and contradictions we find in the Bible goes well beyond minor errors,

What major contradictions are you referring to?

The bits I have read haven't dissuaded me from being curious about such an entity as YHWH - and I admit I did go through a stage of thinking he was Satan - which I think is acceptable given the scribed association...but I got over that through the assistance of a hypnogogic experience which brought that being to my bedside...
Not to digress any more than necessary, I can see why YHWH left it up to humans to tell their stories re their interactions with said entity...so the stories would be different and it is obvious that YHWH works with whoever makes themselves available and this would have to involve working within the boundaries of the individuals belief systems - something which could indeed give a reader the impression of contradiction...

I give the benefit of doubt re that, and try not to focus on any particular biblical personality as 'the one' who had the ultimate relationship with YHWH - while also allowing for Jesus' claims contrary to that, to be examined.

Above all that - what the Generated Messages are revealing about YHWH appear to be very positive - so I am all eyes and ears re that...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM: How is Energy produced by Consciousness? [What is the fundamental nature of Energy?]
A means of taking an Agnostic position on things which have yet to be proven one way or another...
A Stroke of Luck
Form Builders
Such a Mind can prove its existence to the individual

William: "The Oversoul"

"The Over-Soul" is an essay by Ralph Waldo Emerson, first published in 1841. With the human soul as its overriding subject, several general themes are treated: (1) the existence and nature of the human soul; (2) the relationship between the soul and the personal ego; (3) the relationship of one human soul to another; and (4) the relationship of the human soul to God. Influence of Eastern religions, including Vedantism, is plainly evident, but the essay also develops ideas long present in the Western tradition, e.g., in the works of Plato, Plutarch, and Neoplatonists like Plotinus and Proclus – all of whose writings Emerson read extensively throughout his career[1][2] – and Emanuel Swedenborg.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM: Conspicuous [clearly visible. attracting notice or attention.]
Verdant [(of countryside) green with grass or other rich vegetation.]
The Planet Consciousness assess the data and transmits that assessment back to the individuate human consciousness - if not directly - then storing the data in a place where the individual can have access to it, if the individual wants the data.
An unending emotional-based loop hard to break away from because of stubbornly held fear-based belief systems...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

Following the storyline, the reason I do not think that Adam understood why it was important to listen to YHVH's messages, is that the design of Adam's body-set prohibited any access to Adam having a conscious recollection of a prior existence.

Essentially, because Adam had a beginning, this meant that initially Adam had nothing to go by in which to distinguish right from wrong [good from evil] and thus would not have understood, because the knowledge simply wasn't there for him to have any understanding about.

The storyline ["truth through a fictional medium." as you put it] shows the reader that the personality of the character called "Adam", started out his experience in a state of Tabula Rasa.

From your own argument so far, we disagree.

In the story you may be able to point to a passage which identifies that Adam did possess the knowledge from the beginning, and if so, we can examine that idea more fully.

I acknowledge that you have already said that the story of the garden has to be taken in context with the whole story. I take it you mean the whole of the Bible?

However, without something tangible from the Garden Story being able to be identified as key evidence that Adam did indeed understand from the beginning why it was important to listen to YHVH's messages, I would have to take the overall storyline of the Bible as something akin to misinformation based upon misunderstanding.

GM: Opening Doors
I see no solution to said problem coming from either theist or atheist positions.
Ace in the hole
Impermanent
Story
Conscious Heart advice Beautiful
Insight
Truthful
Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

William: Truthful Insight Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis. = 626
I have learned that the only thing that is real, is consciousness = 626
"Astral Guides" Ruling your world..."Chaos Really Is Illusion"

GM: For purposes which extend beyond the borders of materialism

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

William: In real terms, the Master ColdFire trick is about throwing a scary story into the mix in order to show a presumed outcome...however, the outcome was surprising in that the presumed outcome...Presumed outcome = 193... didn't happen and so the storyline changed and adaption was necessary.

"Master ColdFire trick" was inserted as a line entry on my ComList around the time it came about

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

over 2 years ago...

When you get a 'surprising result' in science, it's perfectly acceptable to explain it away by saying 'adaption was necessary'.

The 'surprising result' was in Callum's response to an attempted illusion [the trick referred to] and the "adaption was necessary" is in regard to following the story-line alongside adaptation.

You would know of this, of course, if you 'did the science' but instead you attempt to "explain it away" as "reading the bones"

Follow the links and see the connections Diagoras - don't just jump in and expect that non-theist mud-slinging is going to work for sceptics in this case. "Unclog your Chakras." - as today's Generated Message suggests.

Unclog your chakras
Most
Panpsychist
What Meets The Eye
Active Dreaming
Keep me in The Loop

Well...Maybe...
Not by flinging woo at it.

[emphasis mine]

You're Welcome!

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

William: [As always, this is my opinion on the evidence so far presented.]

My own understanding of Atheism is that it is "The Unconscious lack of belief in Gods" and things spiral out from that core position.

The conscious lack of belief in Gods derives from reaction to theistic narratives and becomes the driving force of opposition as it moves away from the core-meaning - becoming what I refer to collectively as "The Atheisms".

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
Nonviolent communication
The Limitation Of Language
Feedback Codes
Embrace a completely new paradigm
Emotional well-being
Being Friends
Expression Of Appreciation
Indeed
Lots More
A word in edgeways
Logophile [a lover of words.]
Even in the very quintessence of the individual.
Your Move
The Next Step
Breakthrough
How is Energy produced by Consciousness? [What is the fundamental nature of Energy?]
Sovereign
The Science Of The Soul

07:22
Ultimate expression
Most folk need moderating.
Integral Prison Planet
Welcoming the Unwelcome
The Source of All Creation
Your place at the Fireside
Raise your frequency
Everything for a reason
We go through together
Lazy strawman stuff
Invisible pink unicorn
From First Principles
The Eternal Authority
The places that scare you
Hints of the unseen, seen.
The Communion Process.

 

[William]

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. - 6

211222 [Separate Selfishness Shining]

06:24 [Important Journey]


GM: Illuminate Imaginative Realities
The bits will suffice.
The Sensation of God's Presence Inside Us
In The Mirror - Mirror Sense
Yam
Look For the Significance
Concomitant [a phenomenon that naturally accompanies or follows something.]
"From the link"
Optimum Validation
WingMakers Medium
More
The Minds Eye
"And the wind will blow my tears away"

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

...
Yet I have never seen that stop an atheist from consistently attempting to use science in their telling of their opinions about gods.

As an atheist, I'm not above referring to science in support of various claims I, or others, may make.

I was being specific to statements of opinion, rather than claims.
For example, a common argument from atheists that there cannot be a Creator-GOD because "Evolution" when it is clear that the theory of evolution offers no evidence that we do not exist within a creation.
Stuff like that.

It's just such a good source for confirmatory data. That theists can't, or struggle to refer to science in order to promote their beliefs is their problem, not a problem of scientific principles.

On the surface this sounds logical.
However, on the belief that we exist within a creation = "Therefore a Creator-GOD" there has been no science done which provides any of us with the right to premise. ["Therefore a Creator-GOD"]
Thus, promoting beliefs in ideas of Creator-GODs is cart before the horse stuff.
However, if one proceeds in a horse before the cart manner, the focus is on the idea that we exist within a creation, we can then look for evidence within the reality experience we call 'The Universe" and see what can be found therein to support the notion that the reality experience is a creation.

As you know, I'm very intrigued by your Cosmic Mind hypothesis. I want your notion to be true, to be scientifically proven, insofar as how neat I think it would be. I'd love for the scientific community to be able to offer confirmation in this regard. Sadly though, you and I enjoy this notion without such confirmation.

Thanks for saying so. We share in the intrigue.
For me, the notion certainly appears to be true re the evidence - even through the Message Generating Process under development -

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

is certainly understandable enough and deals with this subject in more detail.

As I understand it, IF there is a "Cosmic Mind" involved with the creation of our Universe, scientists will eventually [naturally] discover this just by continuing to do science.
In the meantime I do my own science, and am satisfied with the results so far.
Going off of the readership stats so far, there appears to be a consistent reader-interest where I post the GMs - here, and in other internet forums...

Granted, where an atheist (or anyone) refers to science and gets it wrong, we oughta all fuss about that.

My position is that - in the last 24 hours - I have decided that am done with interacting with atheists and being distracted by their statements of opinion re the Question of GOD...except for the exception of JK because you have consistently shown a willingness to remain open minded about the idea of a "Cosmic Mind" and it is undeniable that such a Mind - if it truly exists - could be referred to as a "GOD'.
In all my years of interacting with atheists, I have never had the pleasure and - like I say - After years of subjection to atheist opinions, I have had enough of it.

As an amateur, a wanna-be scientist, maybe I rely too much on science in support of my own world view.

What will you do if/when science discovers that we actually do exist within a creation?

I submit though, that cracking open the bible ain't the way to fix that.

That is an irrelevant opinion to me, because - as you know - I am not a Theist or an Atheist because I see no logic in having an opinion on GOD until it can be established that we exist within a creation.

The closest I come to that, is with the notion that there MAY be a "Cosmic Mind" and if such can be identified in ANY religious script, I am open [of mind] to investigating that.

Otherwise - since I am not advocating folk need to do that, it is not an issue I have to answer to.

Thanks for you feedback John.

GM: Theist mischief making
A cultural touchstone
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
All of Life a bit of Cat and Mouse
"Hear thee Hear Thee"
Stay Present

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Micro Reflections of a Macro Reality
Wall-Walker
Practicing peace
Ars Notoria

William: Yes - the 'Angels and Demons" being aspects of our subconscious reality which is an aspect of the self often overlooked and misunderstood...

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

I am averse to the assumptions you are making, the utter lack of evidence you are providing for your claims - including the lack of evidence you have provided for everything in this very post...

They are not "claims" they are statements of opinion in response to your own statements of opinion.
As such, neither of us are required to provide evidence...or find aversity therein.

as well as the double-standard you are employing in using the 'bible' to speak of "Satan" to begin with, all the while ignoring the very evidence that book provides about his nature.

My opinion to do with Satan is not ignoring what the Bible tells us of Satan's Character. His Role is specific to that, and obviously useful to the God of the Bible, as the Bible tells it.

William: You seem adverse to my understanding that the way Satan is utilized by God is reflected onto God and can be seen for what it is, by the audience.
I do not have those images you have in your beliefs about Satan, and am not accusing anyone, Satan, God or Job, Christ, David Paul or any other entity effected by God.

Accusing them of what? I'm not sure where that comment is coming from.

I am pointing out the irony re your accusations about me. All accusations [about me or anyone else] come from Satan - which is to say - are mirrored finger-pointing. My "Accuser" [in this case "Tam"] is regarded by me, as voicing accusation = "as coming from Satan" since he is the God-Father of accusation.

[Perhaps have a think about how Peace is formed...it is never formed through the voicing of accusation.]

William: I simply pointed out that there is no mention of Job being consulted on the matter before being cast into the role.

Why are you pointing that out when no one suggested otherwise?

Exactly! It is not expected that in the affairs between YHWH and Satan, that humans need be consulted before they are used re said affairs. This theme and it's varients run through the Bible in relation to the God and Human beings.

I listen to the TRUTHFUL voice of Christ Jaheshua, who is the Light.

That is a statement of opinion Tam. I appreciate it as such, and thus require no evidence from you to back it up.

I also think it is inappropriate for you to use my friend Joey (peace to you!) in an argument with me. So just don't.

Joey has shared with us all, his dilemma. You both share the same "hearing a voice" phenomena. It is appropriate for me to point that out, and so I did.

GM: Christian mythology re God " It helps makes the stinky hole I was pushed through in order to get here, a purposeful experience..."
Just because we might be existing within a creation, and just because it may be nestled within another universe, shouldn't mean that it is somehow an unnatural thing compared to our own.
Grace
Families
Friendship is an agreement between individuals to support one another in any way they can, for mutually beneficial results.
Who Knows What That Is Worth?
Make It Real

06:35
06:49

GM: Coming From QueenBee
Your Dream Team
Callum's Seventh Point
I Think We Can Safely Say
Recover what was lost Do A=1
Do this
Giving our best
This Perpetually Translates To That.

William: This Perpetually Translates To That. Giving our best Does this = 687
Six Eight Seven = 166
[166]
Enflame Emotions
Centre of learning
Supernatural
Self-compassion
The Healing Power
Interesting data
Science of Truth
It is what it is
Solar System
Tetragrammaton
Personal freedom

GM: Religious theists may well be the ones who have placed interposing barriers which ensure that their view is cut off - and this might be achieved through wilful ignorance.
Circle
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
Read
Be Honest
Yellow Light
Calculation
Stop. Listen. Observe. Wonder.
Dualism Separates Because Oneness Remains Hidden
Unless of course, you think otherwise
The Truth
It can bite and scratch so one has to be careful

William: "Chuckles"

GM: Catching up
Try To Feel It
Context
Fugacious [tending to disappear; fleeting.]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

GM: Especially re the possibility of the planet having a mind in which all our minds are connected...in ways we are not overly conscious of... = 1289
[One Two Eight Nine = 183]
[183]
Elemental Powers
Fling That Veil Aside
Test The Waters
The Hubble Telescope
Manifest Destiny
Planned obsolescence
Hydrogen and helium
Learn to trust
The brain as a receiver
Sister Saturn
Truthfulness
Transformation
Embracing your life
The problem of evil
Cosmic Pluralism
Children of The Light

GM: Fling That Veil Aside
Truthfulness
Embracing your life
Cosmic Pluralism
Transformation
Test The Waters
The brain as a receiver
Sister Saturn
Hydrogen and helium
The Hubble Telescope
Children of The Light
Elemental Powers
Planned obsolescence
Manifest Destiny
Learn to trust
The problem of evil

William: Hmmm...

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: "Master ColdFire trick" Testing the waters - Tanager performed his role well re that he prompted Callum to remain calm while all hell was breaking loose...which it wasn't - the trick was in trying to make Callum believe that it was, and Tanager wasn't buying into that...

GM: Only
Yours It is always a warm fuzzy

William: Well yes. Immediately Tanager responded as he did, I dropped the façade and then had to deal with the backlash and interference by Tanager with one of my own Characters...he would not let go of for the longest time...rules of engagement were broken...

GM: Nyx

07:21
[221]
What kind of god is this?
Sweet Illumination
Closer to The Source
First Things First
Who woulda thought!

Post automatically merged: Dec 21, 2022

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. - 7


221222 [Once Upon a Time "Lordy! Do I Have To?"]

05:34 [The Mother and The Father]


GM: Study
Spiritual Food

William: Study Spiritual Food = 254
[254]
The word association field
Empower The Inner Empire
The bits I like will suffice.
"Partial free will is a thing".
Standstill Contemplate
Study Spiritual Food
Swallowed - hook, bait and line
Universe of Wholeness
Science of Consciousness

GM: Atheism cannot be defined through defining "atheists"
The Purple Heart medal

Morals are like Math. Both were discovered rather than invented.
Delightful Anticipation
"I guess it is just us, Master ColdFire"
Pride

William: Hmmm...so this was perhaps part of the reason why Tanager became stubborn in regard to admitting when he was shown that he was breaking the rule not to appropriate someone else's Character? He wouldn't let go of Master Coldfire and admit his mistake ...?

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

TRANSPONDER:...so I postulated that there might be a mind controlling the universe, but not us. Not a personal god, not with a plan for us, and in fact a Deist -god. We were, effectively, as on our own as if there was no god there at all. So, if there was no Plan for human life, was there no meaning for human life? Was there no purpose? If not, why live at all? Why not just stop living?

I postulated differently, and it took many years of my life to learn the way I currently look at this situation I am [and apparently everyone is] involved within.

1: There might be a mind controlling the universe
2: There is a mind controlling me [my own mind]
3: There is no reason to believe that the mind controlling the universe is incapable of interacting with my own mind controlling me.
4: How to give the universal mind an opportunity to interact with me.
5: Religion and its main holy-books did not provide anything through which I could discover the way in which to achieve this interaction as it offered only mediums - foremost their own holy-books - but also laws, rituals, belief systems, preachers et al - none of which enabled me to make any actual and vibrant connection with this supposed universal mind.
6: It was almost accidental that I did find a way in which to make that connection, so deeply shielded from human awareness that it is, in the main, because of [5].

As a result, I have no choice but to reject the idea of the Deist GOD as something which opposes the idea of a personal GOD, because I have found that idea to being untrue.

As well, I do so on the grounds that it is not logical that any GOD-mind which controls the universe but not humans within said universe, is saying that the GOD-mind does not actually control the whole universe, but has left humans to control themselves, even that they are part of what -altogether - constitutes "The Universe".

The very nature of The Universe shows us that it is capable enough to accommodate the idea of allowing humans to feel that they make their own choices, especially if they are intent upon either depending on religious medium or intent on the belief that it is not possible to make said connection - individual mind to GOD-mind.

The purpose of this universe may well be nothing more than allowing for the opportunity for this to maybe happen for each individual who experiences it.

One has to want to do so, of course...

GM: Destination
Noticeable within The Realms of Democracy
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
Camelot
Elude Tabula Rasa
Group Hallucination

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

If anything William, we can just look at the history of science on this issue. We can find that scientists have tried to take the cheap way out by banning the study of consciousness. That's doesn't exactly match the pattern of success of materialist science to boldly take on challenges and to explain things and develop technology. But here we are, William and I (two humble agnostics), still not taken seriously because we dare to consider that consciousness might be something that's less than physical.

The important thing AB, is to keep trying. As Joey Knothead commented to me recently;

Joey Knothead: You expose my atheism for the agnosticism it really is.

I myself lean toward theistic interpretation of existence because it works more directly with the fact of consciousness, rather than attempting to designate it as somehow 'besides the point' in relation to science.

To be fair, there are scientists who are focusing their attention on consciousness [Donald Hoffman for example] and his approach is genuine and he has much respect for his scientist peers.

It needs to be understood that the hard problem of consciousness is problematic because of the ideas which spring from the possibility that consciousness is not an emergent property of the brain - many do not want to 'go there' because of the stigma attached to it re 'crazy' folk who go too far without good supporting scientific structures to ensure that the 'too far' is always tempered by rationality and logic - because there is very strong evidence that lack of such support leads to cult-activity which either has its leaders and followers committing mass suicide or avoiding such through eventually becoming a 'respected religion' ...both options unnecessary and avoidable by maintaining the solid practices science prides itself in acoomplishing.

Nevertheless, consciousness being the enigma it is - the "Ghost in The Machinery" - the stigma attached to that concept can only be erased if we learn to understand that there is nothing 'super-natural' about it - without having to resort to the notion that it is an emergent property of nature.

GM: Dying? Use Mind
A Life Sentence Ending in a Death Sentence

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

So why are you so confident in declaring that time does not physically exist in the universe?

For the same reasons as numbers do not physically exist. They don't physically exist.

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

But how could you know that, when you don't know what time is fundamentally?

The same way as I know that the mind does not physically exist. I do not know if the mind is fundamental to the physical universe but I suspect [strongly] that the physical universe would be useless without it.

So the mind wouldn't be so useful without mathematics and time [the obvious Daughter [subset] of numbers] and therefore - while not obvious in any way - it is possible that Mind is a fundamental property of our universe...and that Mathematics is a Son [subset] of said Mind.

Point being - all known conceptual properties of the mind are known to exist only in the mind, and are not physically real and can only be represented physically as "unreal but existing anyway" or some such other appropriate entitlement...

So what made you think a newer, deeper understanding of the universe wouldn't include a newer, deeper version of spacetime? After all, we didn't abandon gravity when general relativity came along.

It may indeed be the case that Physicists are not being careful with their heading and wording. "Doomed" does imply the certainty of death...I am only relaying the basic information. I do my own digging and for now, accept the verdict being pronounced upon spacetime by physicists themselves. If you have contrary information, I am keen to view it.

Logically, some thing cannot derive from no thing.
Since this infers infinite regression [as well as infinite progression], there is no logical justification to refer to such as "fallacy". [re "Turtles all the way down."]
Explanation of apparent beginnings [such as with our universe] therefore has to be seen as points within infinity...

That does not seem to follow, can you break that down into further steps?

Someone already has. Please watch the video I posted earlier on in this thread...the one with the visuals of a flyover of the Mandelbrot Set.

Seems like there is some unstated premise hidden in there, perhaps something like "all things are derived from something else?"

And "something else" is "all things".

The idea is based on the theory of entropy.
Search "the theory of entropy"
"In classical physics, the entropy of a physical system is proportional to the quantity of energy no longer available to do physical work. Entropy is central to the second law of thermodynamics, which states that in an isolated system any activity increases the entropy."

That doesn't answer my question, why would that imply there would be a time when there would be no objects?

Without energy, what is left to construct and maintain shapeform from the field of quantum particles?

Are you sure the use of the word 'time' is appropriate in the sentence "it took time for energy to turn into matter"

Pretty sure, yes. It took the existence of time itself, and the passage of time.

Just checking.

I think the more appropriate word to use in that sentence would have to be;

"it took a false premise for energy to turn into matter" as energy does not turn into matter. Energy holds the shape of matter. Matter already existed. The theory of entropy has it that energy is passing through quantum field and creating form as it does so. As "time" marches on, the past becomes a "wake" like footprints in the snow and eventually disappear as if energy had simply been a Ghost in passing.

So. Do you think that "Time" = "Energy"? Or do you think are separate entities, doing their own separate thing?

Could it be that there is a state where size and time are unmeasurable? Roger Penrose believes it is possibly the state of singularity. No size and no time as with the singularity, there is no thing to compare that with.

And that's why we say time itself had a beginning: no time with the singularity, now there is time.

"We" also say that time will keep going on forever...yet the past is fading into black...in order for time to last forever, energy has to also exist forever.

Energy cannot have simply farted itself into existence. Therefore logic informs us that it is likely that energy has existed forever...has always existed. Has never - not existed.

Is energy separate from matter, or just another manifestation of matter?

That's just semantics, if energy counts as object, then your earlier question become invalid, the premise that the was a time when there were no objects, would be false.

That depends entirely on the plain of the Quantum field.
For example, if the field is spherical, the energy moving over it and stirring it up into objects of matter, may be no more than a blip on the plain of the Quantum field. Once the energy moves on, the effect on that region diminishes until - once more - the deep silence returns.

Sure, we can identify the compartments re these different realities, but I think it is an overstep to treat them as all fundamentally different, implying different sources.

Why would they have to be fundamentally different though, for some infinities to have a beginning and some not to? Why can't infinites with beginnings and those without be part of an overall infinity?

I am fine with that idea as long as it is agreed there is only - fundamentally - the one Source. The apparent differences are not denoting "many sources".

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

GM: The Hologram of Deception – Yawn
To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored...
Nag Hammadi [a collection of early Christian and Gnostic texts discovered near the Upper Egyptian town of Nag Hammadi in 1945.]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

Rather, he can be either, depending upon personal refection. If one thinks YVHV is a demon, one will eventually encounter that aspect one believes YVHV to being.

Biblically speaking, this seems to run through the script.

Generally speaking, the branch of theism known as Gnosticism regards YVHV as the demiurge...a false creator-God who has deceived the world and suppressed humankind into servitude...so - in that sense Gnosticism regards YVHV more the 'demon' entity than a true representation of GOD.

Which is just to say, Yahwey is imaginary.

Maybe - maybe not. I have seen no particular evidence either way.

That's odd, because to every single test you can make, Yahweh is indistinguishable from the imaginary.

It is no more 'odd' than threads asking for answers to imaginary questions...

But to many they aren't imaginary questions or, rather questions about imaginary claims. After all, even Sci Fi and fantasy has to make sense, even if it has magic or advanced technology that looks like it.

Yes. So again I say re YHVH - maybe the Character is imaginary, maybe not. I have seen no particular evidence either way and therefore answer questions to do with YHWH, along those lines.

Indeed, if the stories of YHWH were fictional - or loosely based upon an actual person - possible questions and answers can still be given, conclusions drawn and opinions offered.

GM: Sweet Hush

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL:

I am speaking of the edge which provides a footing and why I call it "Wall Walking" has to do with the "endless vacuous bickering" which acts as a looping device going nowhere practical, as far as I can tell from Walking the Edge of it.

The design of the universe
Requires
Intelligence with Wisdom
Recognizes
The One GOD with many names
Remembering
Events connected by meaning

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Walls are just things designed to separate and from my vantage, I see no practical reason for why this wall exists. I only know that it does exist due to those who contribute to the "endless vacuous bickering" represented as the stone pieces...from another vantage I suspect that the wall looks safe and gives some sense of well-being to those contributing in its continued construction...

...and now to the weather...

999# ʇsoԀ [Appearances are often deceptive]

William: Ah yes - "Wall Walker"

GM: The Wholeness Navigator

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

JK: I'm still not seeing a way to refute your position. As I try to play out different scenarios, it seems as if I'm answering myself.

That last bit's an interesting bit itself.

I'm still firmly in the "product of the brain" camp, but your hypothesis is a fascinating alternate explanation. While it may appear to propose a 'god', to my -ahem- mind, it lacks the baggage of so many such claims.
_____________________________________________

GM: Visionary
The Real Spiritual

05:57
[Extraterrestrial
For Our Loving King
Galactic Encompassment
Tributary Zones
You will overcome]

 

[William]

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. - 8

231222 [Fearlessness neutralizes fear]

06:33 [The Spiritual Essence]

GM: Individual Actions
Awaken
While We All Wait....
Language itself is not the problem. but how we are taught to use language as a major means in which to self-identify incorrectly...thus we flitter and bounce or alternatively cling to the walls of our unwillingness to understand ourselves as we truly are... hiding from that knowledge behind facades of personality we clothe our awareness with...
Let yourself be led
Homeomorphic [a continuous function between topological spaces that has a continuous inverse function.]
Self-Aware
The Unconscious
Stay in the moment
Delineating The Fine Art of Not Being Offended Inordinately

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[Neuralink Reveals Insane Truth About Their A.I Brain Chip] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=6ryCFASuaeE

The idea of implanting a chip into a human skull has been riddled with mixed reactions since Elon Musk launched his amazing venture, Neuralink, in 2017.
Most people have been asking pertinent questions like, although we know there are a lot of advantages to it if it works, but does it count when compared to some of the most gruesome threats it may pose? Will this chip also be implanted in newborns? At what age?
Well, on the surface, Elon appears to be on a mission to save mankind; after all, he has long warned us about killer AI machines taking over civilization, but there is a deeper and more severe reason why he is so bent on pushing for Neuralink.

GM: Of This Place
Giving Energy Increases Ones Synchronistic Experiences
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
"Once Bitten Twice Shy"
Put the Teachings Into Practice
Superposition - Being aware of Human Control Dramas
Optimized for Fitness Pay-offs
Like eons of sedimentary build-up - for the most part it appears that those codes are largely deactivated - 'fossilized' in a sense. Forgotten in relation to the grand scheme. A Child without any known Parent.
The Path Of Faith
The Father
The Abrahamic idea of GOD
The Bidden Zone
Making Steady Progress
My advice to the reader is to follow the links

06:41
Remember who you are
Between a rock and a hard place
Secrets of the soul
Central to The Message
Hologram Dimensions

 

[William]

241222 [We are not orphaned - we are authored]



SCLx + select last LE per shuffle
[Preamble]
Gematria - Anu - Big Spirituality Conviction - Sweet - Philo2 - Kindness - Conundrum - Precognitive dreams - Productive This Besides Where are we getting our news from? - Acknowledging the evidence is where the tributaries converge
AP= A foot in the door "Identify any ‘atheist’ in the story? Certainly not The Devil!" [=773]

[773]
[Seven Seven Three = 186]
[186]
The Unconscious
Meaningful coincidence
The external voice
Square and Compass
Let yourself be led
Enjoy Progress
The Perfect Moment
Individual Actions

RLE = "Be Taught"

07:01 [Wise beyond my years ]


GM: Encounters
Jesus became the manner in which the misconception could be addressed. No one follower need have understood it in that manner, in order for it to do its job.
Divine feminine
Being Friends
Zeros and Ones

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL:

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Also, we can see that materialist-based science is non-theistic and has become the number one reason why we are now entering an extinction event situation.......

.......So if one is looking for somewhere to hang the blame...

Wherever the blame can rightfully be hung, it can hardly be hung around the necks of the scientists who have been warning us of the very extinction event situation you mention.

One must remember that it is a particular branch of Materialistic science to which the blame could be hung - and that the scientists doing the warning are most likely not of that particular branch...they may be biologists rather than cosmologists and so understand the importance of preserving the planet-ship we are sailing upon [@ about 1.6 million miles per day] rather than creating space-junk and reaching for the stars...I did say "Exact Science" after all.

You do know where the Nazi Scientists went after the defeat of Hitlers Germany, right? [Hint - it was not to the hangman's noose.]

GM: Control
Galaxies are like Islands...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

Atheists crack me up.

Most of the atheist arguments have turned out to be Smoke and Mirrors.
The very idea of a Mind - even to the depths of the Quantum Presence has them fleeing from
Merging with the data and understanding the Integral Network which Mind is and is involved with the development of.
This lack of being reasonable is shirking from Responsibility following after the Tempting Vision and hope in eventual "death by cease to exist" - the promise of ending the nightmare of existing - yet
The Way of the Shaman is allowing life to breath - even if the breath appears to be associated with Sagan's' Dragon in the Garage...it is what it is and even if it hisses smokey instructions inducing the stuff of Childhood Nightmares from some deep part of us, a simple understanding and a gentle reminder - like a Moderator Comment - can make a world of difference...remind oneself occasionally that when the smoke clears [as it will when the dragon stops speaking] one is still left with the mirror.]
Yes indeed...When the smoke clears, one is still left with the mirror...

Atheists crack me up.
_________________

GM: Hell
Be Taught
Improve
r = aeθ cot b

William:

GM: Ask...
Panpsychist
Watchful
As You Think
♬I Really Think Its Ganna Take That Long♬
T-Shirts
Small
GOD God Gods gods


William:

GM: Hyper Complex Data Joining The fire from within

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

So the point of discussion for this thread is....how about you? For the "evolutionists", can you relate to the creationists' way of thinking and behaviors? For the creationists, are there behaviors from the other side that baffle you, and you just don't understand? Do you look at folks like me and think to yourselves, "I just cannot relate to his way of thinking?"

I don't see the problem re the above because I do not view "evolutionists" as opposite from "creationists" although I understand the general differences between the two groups boil down to both thinking that the other either excludes or includes the idea of the universe being a creation - implying a creator - and the idea that a creator can apply to the theory of evolution is often overlooked or pronounced as "unnecessary" and I also see no logical reason why the age of this universe is a necessary matter of contention.

Perhaps it is generally understood that to be a 'creationist' one has to believe in biblical writ, rather than simply understand that there is sufficient evidence to conclude it is most likely we exist within a creation, and in that, the answer to "which" religious idea of god 'did it', becomes redundant.

In saying as much, I personally do not easily relate to the current general-thinking of either "evolutionists" or "creationists".

GM: Keep me in The Loop

William: I created this thread yesterday...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

Given what we understand of DNA et al - things which were once socially accepted - taken for granted - done without guilt - which are then considered to be evil by a more modern society which has connected the dots and discovered therein that the act of abusing children has social consequences primarily in the negative - this works against the society advancing and is thus seen as a threat which requires dealing to.

Thinking about [fantasize about] molesting children may be a throwback connection to those former actions we can inherit but if they are not recognized as such and dealt with accordingly, the chances one will eventually be dissatisfied with mere fantasy and proceed to actualizing will significantly increase and the results will not be easy to deal with for either the victim nor the victimizer.

One may not be able to stop the birds flying overhead, but one is able to stop them nesting in ones hair.

GM: Active
Write A Poem About It
Shamanic dreaming Empower The Inner Empire - The deranged can come about...become arranged.
YVHV uses what YVHV will to get the message across...
Persevere

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

QueenBee
Chamber Of Self - Coming From QueenBee - Open Your Heart
Giving our best - QueenBee - Get The Ball Rolling
Central Purpose - QueenBee - Achievable Alternate Realities
The Fathers 'House - Mansions' - QueenBee - According to Complex Jesus
Items of Interest - QueenBee - Making it up as you go along
Like a doting parent - Coming From QueenBee - Development/Growth

GM: Ancient Entity
Soul Groups A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind
Be Taught
Whereabouts
The Data of Experience
Signs
Individuals
Nods
Inner Strength
Bandage
People hide their sins from each other.
Learning To Fly
Separate Selfishness Shining
Do A=1
Wish fulfillment
It is obviously in line with providence...

William: Wish fulfillment It is obviously in line with providence... = 620
[620]
Would you bow down to your father and call his actions caring?
The safety of ignorance or the terrifying reality of knowledge

07:24

Recover what was lost
All of Life a bit of Cat and Mouse
No Country For Old Men
Two sides of the same coin
The Ancient grey entity
When the dust settles
Earning Brownie Points
The Synoptic Gospels
Those who lack belief in gods
The Never Ending Story
Much pain but still time

 

[William]

Be Taught 2

301222 [Suckling on our milky mother ]

07:52 [What is the meaning of life?]


GM: Discover
We create the machinery regardless of whether we understand how consciousness is connected and motivates us in the way that it does - individually and collectively...
Pineal Gland
A Life Sentence Ending in a Death Sentence
Husband
Crazy Kinship Witty
Leave the door open
Everything Is Unique
Be Taught
Narrative warfare
In a bad mood
Science and Spirituality
Remains
Nontheists may well be the ones who have placed interposing barriers which ensure that their view is cut off - and this might be achieved through willful ignorance.
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer.
We Can Do Magic!
Phenomenon
Dare greatly

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

William: What Is The Point? The Story Timeline By all means, psychoanalyze the hell out of it = 854
Understanding and connecting with the source of our language is vital to that vision = 854
From the link;

I think you are missing the point about my Jungian exegesis here, VVilliam, and I do think your point is not valid in the slightest.

Okay…
VVilliam pokes at the fire and ponders upon what Summerlander tells him...and he reaches into the depths of his Cloak, he withdraws his Journal Experience Tablet.
Activating the JET, he then places the word "okay" through the word-value algorithm and adds the result to his data-base...he then reads the results aloud, looking up from the screen and observing for any reaction from summerlander, after saying each word
Earth

Yes. There it is...VVilliam is not surprised
Six
Heart

VViliam thinks of the six heart virtues...Wingmakers are never far from the action...
What
Now
Nods
VVilliam wonders if something similar might be what Job said to his God
Okay...
Create
Form
Ship
Some
Speak
Elohai
Abracadabra

VVilliam thinks of the meme "I'm not saying it was Aliens" and smiles to himself...he looks up at the night sky and feels like he is sharing in a rather elaborate - well concealed - cosmic prank...

I don't see the Biblical parables as objective realities, I see them as psychological events.

VVilliam wonders if Summerlander is taking the micky with his remark re "psychological events" He searches for meaning in the word and gets two hits.
One reads "of, affecting, or arising in the mind; related to the mental and emotional state of a person." and the other "(of an ailment or problem) having a mental rather than a physical cause."

He finds the Word-Value and adds it to the list.

Possible Clues...
The Spirit of The Earth
Well That Settles It
Ian and William Play chess
Unknown/Hidden/Occult
Shallow is Unknown
Neruda Interview Five
The Plateau of The Same Page
Present over perfect
Psychological events

Job precisely came to the realisation that just being a good person isn't sufficient!

VVilliam continues to do Word-Values as Summerlander talks. The results are interesting.

A drop of consciousness in an ocean of tears
Just being a good person isn't sufficient

He matured from a phase where he thought just being good before an invisible/imaginary heavenly father would be enough to impress to a more realistic and pragmatic outlook about the world where the goods to be reaped from the land aren't going to sow themselves, so to speak—and he was happier for it as evidenced by the tenfold prosperity that unraveled post-realisation. His experience precisely made him develop a thicker skin after the calamitous events (proverbially, Satan's input) in his life and he only got 'closer to God' in the sense that he improved his relationship with the world around him (as it is said, 'God is everywhere').

Summerlander pauses and VVilliam takes the opportunity to speak.

VVilliam: Job realizes the God is real but not in the way he had previously imagined.

Perhaps Job realized that The God he was interacting with, was the planet itself?

Or perhaps only we in today’s world can really get a bead on that, since we now have pictures of the planet, from a spaceman’s perspective.

In reality the journey continues because none of us really know The God sufficiently outside of our own imaginations.

At least the Earth is real enough – never to mind the rest of the universe…

I see that you've smuggled in 'lack of empathy' as if it's anywhere near the same ballpark as 'developing a thick skin'—it isn't.

VVilliam carries on with his calculations

Astral Guides
Etched mirror
Healing The Beast
Contact With
Satisfaction
Three In A Row
Small Steps
Divine Sound
Fingerprint
A rock and a hard place
Balance of power
“Moonchargers”
Mindfulness
In the moment
Heaven on Earth
'Lack of empathy'

Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean he or she lacks empathy any more than being a Muslim automatically aligns your beliefs with the intolerant and psychotic ISIS ideology. In fact, many serial killers exhibit religious beliefs and yet lack empathy for everybody else.

Ancient Grey Entity
If In Doubt Let It Sit
Nazi Space Program Agenda
Independent from what?
Conspiracy theory
Monkey See Monkey Do
When things fall apart
The Undiscovered Self
'Developing a thick skin'

Do you honestly believe that all atheists necessarily lack empathy and that they are all crying at the prospect of death being final?

VVilliam clears his throat and then answers.

VVilliam: I honestly do not know what all atheists are doing…the ones I have met seem to be as unique to their own sense of self as all the non-atheists are.

Identify any ‘atheist’ in the story? Certainly not The Devil!

More calculations - additional data

Anticipating that this will prove to be helpful to the science
Perhaps we can deconstruct some of these pernicious views.
Identify any ‘atheist’ in the story? Certainly not The Devil!

Bearing in mind what happened to Job, I'd like you to picture such scenario happening to you, only you discover that the disease you've been infected with and the torture and murder of some of the people you love and care about were the result of a bet that your father had with some nefarious agent. You confront your father and demand answers only to hear him say that you weren't around when he made a home for you and your siblings and that you are not wise enough to comprehend his actions.

Would you bow down to your father and call his actions caring?

VVilliam doesn't hesitate with answering summerlanders question.

VVilliam: I would respect his position immensely and bow to that – the 'bowing' would be symbolized within the actions of showing respect.
I would also have further questions... Questions as such a Son might be permitted to ask and be graced with answers.

What is a poor boy to do, faced with such factuality?

I might also ask “how thick do you want my skin to be?” but would be smiling as I did so…

VVilliam places another log on the fire and takes a sip of his cooled-down brew. Then he taps on his tablet screen, busy adding results to his JET.
Love Life
Pyramid
Being Born
Respect
Tricky
Symbol
Compass
An Elder Race
Stone Age
Integral
...of said agenda...
Lift your gaze from the fire
The Human Form as a Means to an End
Memorandum of Understanding
...but would be smiling as I did so…
Reminding one of how it all started and the different stages one goes through.
Questions as such a Son might be permitted to ask and be graced with answers


Somewhere in the small grove of trees, Te Ruru calls...and the sound brings a smile to VVilliams thick-skined face...

I think you are missing the point about my Jungian exegesis here, VVilliam, and I do think your point is not valid in the slightest.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
The point I am focused upon is at the very center of the Mandala, summerlander.

GM: Mind’s Eye

William: Yes...the idea of "The Creator" expands as human knowledge about their situation, is discovered.
This reminds me of what Theophile is writing, re our discussion as to whether Simulation Theory and Evolution Theory and Creation Theory {Genesis One} can able to be reconciled.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I am enjoying that interaction as it is fruitful - removed from the normalized "Narrative warfare"
"In a bad mood" type, that you mentioned.
Focus on what remains - which, as you also pointed out - it is Science and Spirituality that Remains...

GM: Tetrahedron
Inner self

William: Correct - as such both converge, creating the ...

GM: Incentive
"If someone were to declare that the Universe was a random mindless accident of an event, then they are saying that its existence is a 'truly random event'."

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: Communication with the dead

Communication with the dead.
Why would anyone wish to do that?

There would be a number of reasons. For me it was motivated by the knowledge that I was getting shallow and often dubious communication with the living, even in relation to opinions about the dead.
I decided that I would give 'the dead' an opportunity to show they had more to offer.

Is it through grief with attendant emotions? In which case it is understandable but irrational.

The use of Talking Boards gained popularity in the US, shortly after the Civil War because of the great social grief experienced at fathers and sons/husbands and siblings lost in the fighting...people wanted to know that their loved-ones were alright and talking boards seemed to provide some closure and healing in that regard.

The name Ouija is a combination of the French “oui” and German “ja,” both meaning “yes.” It was patented in 1892 but primitive models date back to ancient times. Talking boards, also known as spirit boards, gained popularity in the United States during the late 1860s as mournful users attempted to communicate with the Civil War dead.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Or is it idle curiosity without reason?

Curiosity [no matter how idle] always involves reason.

A warning about Ouija
University of Akron professor Oscar E. Olin, an ordained Universalist minister and instructor of philosophy and social sciences, was a major skeptic of Ouija.

Voices from beyond the grave? What complete balderdash.

He feared that the boards could cause psychological harm among those who developed too close an attachment.

“Many people, falling victims to its lure, have been mentally unbalanced,” he said. “Just as one may go insane over too close application to any one subject, so the Ouija board has its danger for the credulous, the superstitious, the hysterically inclined.”

So imagine Olin’s surprise when he tried Ouija and the planchette moved.

He was toying with the board when, to his curiosity, the indicator seemed to spell out a word. He was alone at the time, so he couldn’t blame anyone else.

The professor developed a theory: Perhaps his fingers had acted on unconscious impulses from the brain. Ignoring his own advice on developing too close an attachment, he began to conduct “exhaustive experiments” with Ouija boards.

“Although I certainly did not practice conscious fraud on myself, I found that I was able to get frequently startling sentences from the board as long as I could see what was being spelled,” he explained.

To test his hypothesis, he constructed his own talking board that included several common words as well as letter groupings that made it easier to form sentences. But he also added an adjustable screen that could block his view of the board.

Ouija seemed positively verbose without the obstruction.

“The moment I adjusted the screen in place, however, that moment the messages were effectually cut off,” Olin said.

He invited several self-proclaimed mediums to test the apparatus, but no one was able to produce any messages when the screen was drawn and their vision was blocked, he said.

“This convinces me that practically all Ouija board messages are the result of causes far closer to this world than the realm of spirits,” he said.

Which explains the showmanship of mediums, an entertainment. Mainly a con in my view. Think of people such as James Randi who debunked many an unfortunate con artist.

Perhaps we might be better off if there were folk like James Randi in ancient times who could have debunked famous biblical characters promoting their particular cons.

To my mind it is unhealthy and dangerous to delve in matters that promise to be detrimental. I see no good coming from it.

The promise of the detrimental came much later than when talking boards first gained popularity. There use was for more respectable pursuits than later on when a simple board was developed and branded "Ouija" and one can trace the source of the demonizing to modern day Christianity, which had already misrepresented the image of Lucifer sufficiently, and this helped to promote the detrimental within societies influence by Christianity.

The Bible warns us to have no connection with mediums and such, I believe the Bible is giving excellent advice.

You believe that the advice to kill such folk is "excellent advice"?

Leave well alone that which is a natural necessary process.

If we took that advice, we would be far worse off than we are today, because we would not question the things which Christianity has told us are true, and those days of taking the word of con-artists armed with bibles is on the decrease as we place aside the superstitious ideas based in supernatural suppositions. It is human nature and ability which are natural and necessary, and folk like James Randi would not have been able to uncover the fraudulent practices of con-artist without that.

We live, we must die. Acceptance is the only real peace. Even if you could communicate with those gone, what good could it do?

What good does it supposedly do when Christians claim to communicate with Jesus?

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: Does god have morals?

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

For some reason there is cultural-centric notion argued here many times by evangelicals that insists morality can only come from their God. This is just plain wrong, as I have just demonstrated.

What they do not easily see therein, is that this idea makes monkeys out of them, and they are determined to become gods.

The confusion caused is a response to the dilemma of God being within an Animal, at the same time god is within a Human - mostly because of the incredible chasm between the two positions of form.

It is the knowledge we are capable of collecting and the ability to use the knowledge any which way we want to, which causes the confusion, when it is aimed at the only god-like entity we know of and collective seem to have a love-hate relationship for/with.

It is as if we all resent the fact of the life we are within...whereas the Animals just get about getting on with it without all that fuss...

GM: Journal - William Message Generation

William: FTL;

William:Checking out WSB quotes - for example " Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer." I already have variants of this in my ComList.

Also it is apparent to me that ones 'mind' is vaster than we are led to believe...and that there are many levels of consciousness beyond our own, and that we are all connected mindfully in ways which we do not easily comprehend.

This system I am using can help the individual connect with the larger reality of the over-mind.

Rather than place the above WSB quote into my ComList, I prefer to post this and then get the link to the post and place that into my ComList, because it allows for even more scope than a single quote can offer - in relation to any future Generated Message which might include the link as part of the message being built.

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

...
The impression re the storyline is that the knowledge of good and evil was what caused death. The assumption was that the fruit had the power to give one that knowledge, since they were warned not to eat it....

I think that is a wrong impression. I don't think the fruit itself caused anything. It was the act of eating it that had consequences. It could have been any fruit and it would have had the same effect, if there would be the same conditions of eating it.

In which case, there is no reason why Adam and Eve could not have been allowed to eat the fruit after they had shown their resistance to temptation.

The test was done, the results were in, and the fruit of the tree was not what caused the eventual death of the pair [according to the storyline itself].

I did not say that the fruit caused anything or argue that the fruit had something within it which gave one the ability to know/have knowledge of, good and evil.

It was a prop which YHWH used as a means to an end.
Since there was nothing intrinsically special about the fruit, there should be no reason why the fruit could not be eaten by the pair, after they had resisted the temptation.

It was a deception because - in the biblical telling of it - God [as yet unnamed] - implied to Adam that the fruit itself had the power to give Adam knowledge of good and evil.
YHWH planted a seed into Adams mind, which then germinated into the eventual disobeying of YHWH.

All along, YHWH would have known that any death incurred after Adam disobeyed YHWH, would not be because the of the fruit that had been eaten but rather, because YHWH would have denied Adam access to the fruit of the tree of life.

This begs the question:
___________________
Q: Why would YHWH create a being of nature and not instill that being with knowledge of good and evil, if indeed we agree that without morals, the human specie could not even get a foothold on the back of nature?
___________________
Remember too, that the reason for humans being created was so that they would multiply across the face of the Earth and subdue it.
Since this requires the ability to survive, and since the ability to survive requires knowledge of what is good and what is not [re the reason] it was imperative that Adam also know.

[imperative=of vital importance; crucial.]

[Answers may - nay - will, vary]

GM: "A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"
Central Purpose - QueenBee - Achievable Alternate Realities
Repudiate [refuse to accept; reject. deny the truth or validity of.]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: Something can't come from nothing

Please demonstrate that your communications with 'It' are not just self-delusion.

Please demonstrate that it is just self-delusion. If you cannot do so, then your argument therein can be viewed as simply unsupported opinion and thus, invalid speculation, which can be shoved back into whatever hole it came from...

So, basically your 'evidence' to support that all you contend is true consists of asking for evidence that demonstrates that it is not true.

I continue to provide evidence for those interested.
My comment - obviously enough I thought - had to do with your implying self-delusion. Do you have any evidence that I am self deluded?
Apparently not - as you responded with more woo-slinging

As I wrote...invalid speculation can be shoved back into whatever hole it came from...please desist with such tactic as it adds nothing to the communication process re honest argument.

GM: Be Taught
The Brother
Disrupt Vortex Television
Extremely
The Garden of Eden
Unwilling Reaction
“Spread love everywhere you go. Let no one ever come to you without leaving happier.”
“Three worlds and three deep mysteries”
Light is information
The Way of the Shaman
Self-discipline

08:51
[189]
Acknowledge the Agreeable
I share your joy!
The Prime Directive
Making Things Easier
Links And Symbols
Shepherding Moons
Conscious Dreaming
What Shall We Call It?
Wish fulfillment

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2022

Be Taught 3

311222 [Self-Awareness Stuff Happens]

05:44 [Soul Group Energies]


GM: Share -share -share
Swords

William: 9 of Swords

The Nine of Swords shows a woman sitting up in her bed with her head in her hands. She appears to have been jolted awake from a terrible nightmare that has left her disturbed, scared and anxious. Nine swords hang on the dark wall behind her, representing the negative thoughts that weigh heavily on her mind. The base of the woman’s bed features a carving of one person defeating another, and roses and the outlines of astrological symbols adorn the quilt wrapped around her.

GM: Toward a Science of Consciousness
Creation Of A New Universe

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

"a term used to describe the psychological process of transitioning across boundaries and borders. The term “limen” comes from the Latin for threshold; it is literally the threshold separating one space from another. It is the place in the wall where people move from one room to another."

Agnosticism is a form of Liminalism, applicable only to The Question "Do we exist within a creation?" re the theistic and atheistic answers and subsequent arguments re said question.

Liminalism is not limited to pondering questions specific to theistic/atheistic interpretation of the mind in relation to matter. That is a huge advantage.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM: Clarity
Self-limitation

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

Hey William,

Our posts have started covering a whole bunch of ground. I’m attempting to streamline my response, but let me know if I’ve misunderstood or missed anything of importance. I saw these main areas:

Hey Tanager

Yes - it is often the case, we start out with short posts and this evolves into longer and more detailed ones.
That is why I was listing our agreements, so that these might provide a way in which to help direct our path of discussion.

We have both agreed that:
1: We exist within a creation.
2: Simulation Theory is a valid way to interpret the Biblical stories.
3: YVHV placed humans into this universe to grow personalities.
4: The purpose of YVHV growing human personalities is so that these would potentially gain experience of the truth of the reason for their environment and their temporary experience within it.
5: It is an advantage to all grown personalities to be consciously and consistently connected with YVHV and thus understand and support YVHVs initiatives.

We parted company on;

6: We do not agree that human personalities - upon the death of their body-sets - move on to other experiences.

I think this is different from whether Jesus influences people throughout the two thousand years since, however. I think He influences us from a constant, unchanging self. What changes is our understanding of things, not what He teaches.

I covered that when I wrote:

Historical scholarship is simply that. If we are to believe that Jesus has been active behind the scenes - in N.T. Wright's "Control Room" analogy, then we best not assume that the influence of that room is forever stuck in and dependent upon - that one frame of ancient history.

To expand on this understanding, What Jesus taught in no way contradicts the idea that we exist within a simulated reality.
As with YHVH, being the same/unchanging hasn't anything to do with how the authors of biblical script 'saw' YHVH and thus expressed their seeing in story form. Those stories are not "what YHVH teaches" but are expressions of inspiration by the authors who believed they were being taught by YHVH and their attempts to dress that in a language which could be understood by folk of their particular epoch.

That is why I wrote;

What is to say that if, what they did believe in was not true, that Jesus - knowing differently - wanted them to understand that their beliefs were in error?

You reply;

What changes is our understanding of things, not what He teaches.

I have been saying the same thing. So we cshould eventually be able to add that to our list of things we agree with.

Yes, like materialists, I believe spacetime is integral to our “base reality” but, unlike materialists, I believe it is only part of that base reality, not the whole story. That “spacetime is doomed,” for theists, doesn’t negate spacetime being part of base reality. Whether it will be a renewal of the present earth or a completely separate earth, that earth is still a spacetime.

This only serves to add credence to Simulation Theory Tanager.

"Spacetime is doomed" - as I wrote;

The statement which has been proved true, is that "Spacetime is Doomed." This is to say, that spacetime is NOT the base reality which materialists have insisted that it is.

I never said that spacetime is not PART of something greater, but that it is not the base reality itself.
Your argument up to this point has appeared to be different to that, indicated by your not wanting to agree with;

6: That human personalities - upon the death of their body-sets - move on to other experiences.

Clearly, biblical script [which I have given per your request] has it that Jesus say's differently from you on this point. That script has been offered by me for your comment.

You commented;

One example I gave was that supposed personal experiences of Jesus that contradict His historical teachings, should not be accepted as true.

Yet you offer up to this point, no scriptural evidence to support your assertion re the stories folk bring to the table re their NDE experiences, that those stories should be discarded as lies, hallucinations, honest mistakes, etc.

On the other hand, an argument that the experiences being told, are the result of folk being made aware of the actual unchanging state of YHVH, to which the bible cannot be counted as something which speaks on behalf of YHVH, but only as a reference to those telling the stories from the perspective of their place in the epoch they underwent.

Unfortunately, the bible in that light, is a closed off book - whereby at some point, men chose to seal it shut from the advancement of human/YHVH interaction, whilst declaring it a type of complete document and cutting off all future interactions between YHVH and humans, that are NOT exactly the same as those stories of more ancient folk, recorded in the bible.

This is perhaps the main reason for the struggle you are currently having with the idea of Simulation Theory and belief that the bible does not describe us existing within a reality simulation, and the struggle to accept the stories folk have to tell about their NDEs, as being witness to truth.

Who are we to limit what YHVH does or does not do, based upon the writings of more ancient men, who - if told of the things of our technologically advanced modern world - might also complain that such things told are lies, hallucinations, honest mistakes, blasphemy etc?

Do you believe that YHVH did not know the future of humanity or see it as humanity moving towards uncovering truth, and thus getting closer to the unchanging state in which YHVH resides?

As far as the views on the afterlife in Jesus’ time, I would commend this article to you to read:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

... n-origins/. The point in Revelation 21, I think, is about heaven coming to this earth, and renewing this earth. Yes, it’s a (re)new heaven and (re)new earth, but there is a continuity as well.

Honestly, it does not matter in the context of simulation theory Tanager.

If something changes, then it is not what it once was.

I recently asked otseng this:

William: Many Christians believe the bible tells it, that they will be resurrected to enjoy life in this universe forever...

How do you reconcile the eventual heat death of the universe, with such beliefs?

otseng: Everything will be reset

Your telling of it is the same as otseng, but what both of you fail to understand is that something which is changed, [ and graphically so] is not the same thing, but a different thing.

It may indeed have similarities, as you point out, and I have no argument re that, as simulating something naturally enough does have the quality of sameness, but in order to believe that one can withstand the natural tendency of a universe - like the one we currently occupy - to NOT be harmful to the forms we occupy [the human form] either those forms must change to accommodate, or the universe must change to accommodate, or both - the bottom line is that those changes must signify that we will not be existing in the same form and thus, Simulation Theory explains how those differences will be achieved.

New Heavens and New Earth mean that ST is involved in making it so.

Whether it is 'reset' or some other way in which this is achieved, ST is that which explains how such can be done.

Thus, my opinion on the matter of YHVH being unchangeable, is that YHVH is the fundamental reality and ANYTHING which changes HAS to be regarded as simulated.
[Which is why we are grown, as per agreement 3: "YVHV placed humans into this universe to grow personalities."]
Agreed?

I think it’s the same with Jesus’ resurrected body and our resurrected bodies. A car that gets an upgrade in engine, shocks, etc. is different than it was, but still the same vehicle. It’s got the same VIN, owned by the same person, etc. I think Jesus’ body (and ours) are like that. While it certainly changes, it’s still the same in a unified sense.

Your above can be regarded as semantics.
Agreed?

You also seem to be separating the soul from the personality. Am I right, there? Are you saying a “personality” is a temporary identification of a soul with a body in a particular environment? I would use soul and personality as synonyms.

I understand Soul as the breath of YHVH and thus unchangeable. It works with the personality which is changeable, as a means through which the personality can change - or "level up" to use Gaming terminology - and is integral to the personalities ability to experience anything.

While it is feasible that a personality can be deleted, and the soul connected with the personality to be integrated back into the unchanging completeness of YHVH, but this would be an extreme in that it would signify the personality is of absolutely no USE to YHVH.

Your understanding that the soul and the personality are synonymous [closely associated with or suggestive of something.] is understandable in that context, but they are not the exact same thing as one is grown [changeable] while the other is the other is complete.

3) What’s the balance of goodness and wickedness in the world?

You believe Jesus stated wickedness is greater than goodness in Matthew 24:37-39,

Please quote where I said I believed that.

Now, I originally answered the question about the balance of goodness and wickedness in the context of things right now. It sounds like you are focusing more on that balance at the “end” of the world. It’s possible that the balance there will be heavily on evil’s side, but I would need to think longer there to come to a conclusion.

My point was, that IF things are balanced NOW, in order for Jesus to return [as per Christian belief] things will have to deteriorate considerably, so that the impossibility of us being able to say NOW, as to the balance between good and evil, would become possible. That also would work the other way, but if things got better to the point where it became possible to make the call, YHVH would have no need to order Jesus to return.

In line with this thinking, is the idea of Jesus and the Control Room you mentioned. IF Jesus has been active in that regard, THEN we should be able to say confidently that things are getting better.

Ultimately, I think the Bible doesn’t focus on balancing good and evil, but eliminating all evil coupled with patience for those who are perishing in their evil, in hopes that they will seek escape through the Messiah. But, at some point, time will be up and evil will be wiped out.

Given YHVH is the biblically the bringer of both good and evil, this wiping out [deleting] signifies a change in YHVH, which does not align with the idea that YHVH is complete/unchangeable so that line of reasoning can be abandoned and explanation for concepts of good and evil has to derive in the personalities being grown and their lack of understanding and confusion deriving from their concepts of good and evil.

The concepts themselves require change, and perhaps this is what is meant by evil being deleted. The personalities change as the concepts change/the concepts change as the personalities change.

Having the belief that soul and personality are the same, makes the change - impossible, as far as I can tell, because the individual has no helper to activate said change, being in a position where trust in ones personality ["soul" in your regard] can be subject to those things you mentioned - hallucination, lies, et al.

Or as Bob Dylan wrote in a song;

Preacher was talking there's a sermon he gave
He said every man's conscience is vile and depraved
You cannot depend on it to be your guide
When it's you who must keep it satisfied

Soul - as an aspect of unchangeable YHVH - independent helper of the growing/changing personality, allows one to trust in something greater than oneself.

[this also eludes to another private conversation we are having re the GMs]

Agreed?
So far, I have seen no clear reason from you as to why that wouldn't be the case, that you should remain in disagreement with me...

My hope is that we can come to agreement and move on along the same path of discussion...

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[The History Of Earth's Five Mass Extinction Events [4K] | The Next Great Extinction Event ] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jsj7K6E0Fg [RTS=10:05]
GM: Radical acceptance
Even so, I have full appreciation for your efforts, because even incorrect peer review is better than indifference.
Be Taught
Interactive
Share -share -share
Learned
Action
Do A=1
Brother, where Art Thou?
Feel your feelings
The Sensation of God's Presence Inside Us
Makes Candles Look Gathered

William: Brother, where Art Thou? Feel your feelings The Sensation of God's Presence Inside Us Makes Candles Look Gathered = 1060
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. = 1060


GM: Optimized for Fitness Pay-offs
The Realm of The Knowing of My Self Spacetime is not fundamental
Brotherhood Of Souls
Encounters Challenge Boundaries
Reality
Creative
Loving

William: Reality is Creative and Loving = 299
Related phrases to The Subject = 299

This GM ties in well with the current interaction I am having with Theophile.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

06:26
[226]
Soul Group Energies
Trust the process
Deliberate and important
Attitude of gratitude
The Father - in The Mother.

 

[William]

Be Taught 4

040123 [Optimized for Fitness Pay-offs]

15:05 [In William’s Room]


GM: Neuralink
Far Out! Shucks! Explain!
Life in Heaven- Guiding Us On Earth
'The Dream Team'
Fast
The blurry line of the neutral zone
Music
As well as that pot of gold...
Remove the phenomena and apply science
Verbatim

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[First Things First]

William: FTL;
[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

If you read what is taking place and try and put yourself in Adam's place, then perhaps because you and I would cast blame off of ourselves, doesn't mean that this is the correct way to understand what we read in the scriptures. The scriptures do not record whatever has entered into the minds of men to speak, but they spoke as they were moved to speak and God recorded exactly that which he wanted to place within his word. This is why ALL of scripture is God breathed, meaning it came from the mouth of God.

That is debatable as "God-Breathed" could simply be referring to someone being inspired by their subjective relationship with a great mind they think of through the limitation of their own mind, and thus express imagery through the belief filters of their own minds.

This would signify that what anyone writes about such relationship their telling of it will be tainted with misunderstanding - especially if they themselves had the need to make their invisible friend more visible with dress-ups.

All theistic stories about the gods are more ancient than the discovery of writting, even as ancient as humans learning how to control fire - so this word was breathed through a different medium and kept alive and along with that natural process - many filters of human interaction with IT would have distorted the nature of the Thing that IT - fundamental - was/is - as if IT speaks for ITSelf through the prisms of human minds - as if IT would appear to be happy with what IT is being dressed up in...but how do we know, because to claim IT is happy with the arrangements, is dressing it up to look like that might be the case...

Is IT "God-Breathing" because it does not KNOW what IT is, and that is what the Tetragrammaton represents? [I AM "Whatever you want me to be"]

On one level, sure! Why not?

But on other levels, perhaps IT knows exactly what IT is and is open to the possibility that Individual Human Beings might possibly cease trying to dress IT up and cease believing in the stories which dressed IT up and start paying attention...

First - one has to be aware that we exist within a creation and discover the way which will show one that this is most likely the case.
Second - after First - one has to figure out the best ways in which one can assist the Creator in transmitting ITs "Word" on ITSelf even if that means IT has to undress and get naked so as we can get a better look at what IT is we aren't seeing....

First Things First
[Closer to The Source
Who woulda thought!]

If one continues to view GOD through the dressings of a book, then the focus/worship is on the costume and not what resides underneath the costume...one will never get to first base going in that direction...

GM: Be Taught

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

GM: The God
Entheogen [psychoactive substances that induce alterations in perception, mood, consciousness, cognition, or behavior for the purposes of engendering ...] [Engender - cause or give rise to (a feeling, situation, or condition).]
Stuff/things a complex and tricky undertaking...
The Dreamer dreams the dreamed and the dreamed think the dream is real

William: This is what I am presently talking about with Theophile
Re: Simulation Hypothesis and Evolution Theory and The First Creation Story

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

while ST cannot be discarded, it still would have to adjust accordingly to be seen as the process which occurs re each unfolding, and each process is the product of the Mind which all this must be happening within, which produces the realities experienced.

GM: The Main Points on the Agenda
Little Pointers Are Signposts
Cunning
Express your feelings
End Of Chapter

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FLT;

William: There is a lot to unpack here.
Learning to be conscious of the unconscious so that one may then recognize various impulses and where these originate from.
In a sense, this is the science of the mind I am attempting to explain to Sherlock. Things may indeed appear to be so mystical as to be of another universe entirely...and are thus given the title of being a Miracle...

GM: The Wisdom of Foresight

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[Bob Dylan - Death Is Not the End (Official Audio)] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4jHDvNB80

William: Being prepared to accept that when the body dies, there is more to experience...

GM: There is a way to link all these seeming contradictions - so that coherent explanation brings these together...
All of life
That is the thing - once behavioural adjustments are instigated, the idea of existing within a suppression matrix becomes moot...it no longer matters where one is - it only matters what one is...so the adjustments have everything to do with self-identification...knowing who one actually is at ones core-identity...
Self-talk Root of all evil
Regimented

William: In that, if one is going to be genuinely unpleasant in ones internalizing, this will become apparent in ones external reality...evil is as evil does - which is a human thing...as per the discussion between Theophile and I re ST, ET and CT...

I don't think we're far apart. The issue as I see it is that you would subsume CT into ST whereas I feel that CT provides a distinct and necessary stage for ST to become a possibility in the first place, and that this is the stage we should assume we are in and focus our attention on. i.e., that such a God as ST proposes does not yet exist and that this world is not yet a simulation... We should think and act as if such a state has yet to be achieved, even if it already has.

While I understand your reservations, I think that to have a CT theory based upon the idea that The Mind grew out of the Creation and thus - is not directly responsible for the suffering one experiences by those inside said Creation, one is agreeing with the idea of The Problem of Evil, which your particular CT deals with, and which ET also deals with - neither of which, may be the best way to deal with said 'problem'.

The thing I ask is whether this "problem" has actually been established as real or imagined and if not real, then it is an unnecessary layer to be adding - unnecessary baggage - and thus not appropriate to being attached to any theory, including CT and therefore doesn't belong on the table of this discussion.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM: Epoché ["suspension of judgment" but also as "withholding of assent"]
The Visitation Event Heuristic Fearlessness Decisive
Be Taught

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William:

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

So what's going on here? Is this sick and hateful people projecting their own faults onto others? Is it a case of "every accusation is really a confession"? Something else? All of the above?

I think it is a case of the evolution of Human ethics and some being quicker at changing than others.
Add to that the religious finger-pointing, those who offend from such positions are naturally regarded as the worst, and it looks worse for that, than when committed by other groups who are not preaching the same sermon, or any sermon at all.

Once upon a time Humans behaved in such ways as a matter of nature - much like dolphins are seen to commit rape but are not seen to be sinning therein.

Incest was normal once.

The changes have come about through identifying actions which damage others, and seeking to do something about that.

Rape, slavery, incest, sexual, physical, emotional, phycological abuses are slowly identified and laws enacted in order to curb the practices - some learn faster than others.

Some Christians argue that those Christians who practice such things are not really Christians at all, citing the words of Jesus as evidence.

Others argue that the words of Jesus being bound within the Bible alongside the words of rapists, slavers, incestual, sexual, physical, emotional, phycological abusers and that Jesus himself being reported to have caused physical distress to stall-holders in the temple and olive trees, aren't helpful to the process of learning to identify actions which damage others, and seeking to do something to cease with that type of behaviour.

And if we regard the current warnings about climate change and heading for a possible extinction event - this time caused by humans - we might understand that none of us have the moral high-ground, regardless of what position we hold on matters of God and stuff like that.

Perhaps too much judging and not enough doing [hypocrisy] will be the source-reason for our own extinction?

GM: Simulation
Counsel

GM: Can You Imagine...
'Developing a thick skin'
Charity
Stuff/things a complex and tricky undertaking...

William: Without doubt - there is much to learn...

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;Re: If you were Satan....

Meantime, a Personal Signature does the trick.

Aside from a Personal Signature, there isn't anything I can think of which would fit the script.
If it is a tattoo of some sort and everyone who accepts, has the same tattoo, it would act in the same way a Personal Signature currently acts - as in - grants access to the marketplace...

Questions re that;

Q: If Satan is sitting back - can he still achieve what was prophesied or...

Q: ...Would Satan have to relinquish the prophesized power part along with the prophesized prestige part?

The reason I ask is because, while the OP is focused on Satan thwarting Father YWHW [and Son] by not going along with the prophecy, there may still be parts Satan can accomplish without having to play the role totally.

Q: Behind the scenes, what would Satan be planning, and...

Q: ...is there any evidence we know of in today's world which might infer deviousness behind those scenes?

Because, if there is - [or it could be] - then Humans could effectively be tricked into thinking that - because prophesy is not happening the way folk separately interpret the prophecy should happen - that there is no Satan or Father YHWH [and Son] and go along never suspecting that they were serving Satan.

Q: Can Satan deceive the world and thwart prophesy at the same time?
Q: Is Satan more intelligent than Humans?

_________________ But wait! There's more! _________________

All this speculation about Satan thwarting Father YHWH assumes that Satan is more intelligent than Father YHWH.
Those whom assume such are basically showing the allegiance of their will to worship Satan's intelligence.
Perhaps that is the Mark of The Beast.
[Loyalty or commitment to a superior or to a group or cause.]

[An attitude of the individuals mind which is altogether shared by millions of like-minded $itizens.]

To think that Satan can outsmart the Elder - The Father YHWH - is a fallacy in relation to biblical narrative.
That is to say,
IF one has to go outside of biblical narrative whilst arguing against biblical narrative
THEN one is ignoring biblical narrative on the one hand whilst on the other holding ones interpretation of it up as the interpretation to assume.

Such muddies the waters for all except those who have already noticed what is beneath the surface...

GM: Perpetual

15:58
[167]
The Akashic Records
Do Not Worry
Majestic Twelve
All systems go
Got The Picture
Unus Mundus
Realm of Remembrance
Faith-based thinking
Ooky Spooky
True Colours
The Forerunner
Your Best Self

Post automatically merged: Jan 4, 2023

Be Taught 5

050123
"The Queen died peacefully at Balmoral..."
The Shifting Models of Existence
A complex and tricky undertaking...
Spacetime doesn’t really exist
A: To grow Human Personalities.
A life sentence ending in a death sentence

08:20
In the biblical telling of it
My alarm bells are ringing
The Judgement Algorithm
For the benefit of all beings
Stop. Listen. Observe.
Penetrate The Bidden Zone
Imposed Appropriates
Independent Commitment
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
Delightful Anticipation


GM: Sanctioned
The Master ColdFire Trick
Slaughter
In Out and All About
Under the breath words Context It Is Our Nature
In Human Form
Children of The Light
In The Mirror - Mirror Sense
Lift Your Gaze From The Fire
Be Taught
Brother

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Concomitant Power [Concomitant - a phenomenon that naturally accompanies or follows something.]
Google
"Off you go to your quarters"

William:

You can use this word to mean "housing" generally, although it's most common for soldiers and servants to live in quarters.

GM: The Twelve Disciples
"When we hear words spoken, we hear them. When we read words written, we also hear them."
Indication
"I think it was an ambush or surprise attack" = An Opportunity To Commune
Better The Devil You Know
Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence
James (WingMakers)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

IF:
There is a Cosmic Mind
THEN:
Eventually, any species which survives long enough to continue along with the unfolding universe will eventually discover that and invent ways in which to engage.

GM:Peaceful Messiah

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Something "outside of GOD" contradicts "no outside of GOD."

Creating something new does not contradict "no outside of GOD."

Creating something new "outside of GOD", does.

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

It would be a contradiction if I was talking about them both being true at the same moment, but I’m not. “No outside of GOD prior to creation” and “outside of GOD at/after creation” are not logical contradictions.

No matter how you word it or what context you build around it, 'outside of GOD' contradicts 'there is no outside of GOD'.

Adding the mind-construct of 'time' does not make a contradiction a non-contradiction.

Another way of looking at it, is that GOD is Omni-present - specifically "always in the now of every 'moment' - never absent - never outside of anything and everything never outside of GOD."

There is no contradiction in referring to "No outside of GOD" unless one attempts in inject the idea that there actually is an outside of GOD. One is real and the other is human invention attempting to superimpose the false upon the real.
Saying 'both';

Tanager: It would be a contradiction if I was talking about them both being true at the same moment...
is relying upon unsupported assumption as;

There are no 'both'. There is only One.

If one does a little study on the Set one will discover that the infinite progression can be shown to run opposite [as infinite regression] which signifies that the point where the video begins is the same as the begin/end points which turn up throughout the eternally unfolding.

Can you share the reasoning that shows this?

Sure - when I come across the video I picked the info up from, I will. From memory, the person showed that by applying the Set formula for the negative numbers, one gets a mirror-image of the Set, 'going the other way'...having written that it occurred to me I could google something like "Mandelbrot Set negative equation" - there are articles on this you can view for yourself, if you make a similar worded search...

My statement has to do with our overall conversation here. Do you want to end this conversation because 'the existence of a creator' hasn't been supported or carry on re the question "Do we exist within a creation?"

When I wrote "we know that it was built from something that already existed" I was referring to Energy and QF [matter] and if these things fundamentally represent GOD [re theistic ideas about existing within a creation] then they may as well be be accepted by theists, in that attitude.

I don’t see any reason to believe your conditional here. Why should I believe that energy and matter fundamentally represent GOD?

I don't ask anyone to believe or not believe.

The fundamentals of this universe are Energy and Matter.

GOD - [if we do exist within a creation] has to be the mindful aspect of the Energy which forms the Matter into shapes [galaxies et merda] so has to be fundamental to the fundamentals - the 'Mind' aspect of the whole process.

If Energy and Matter engaging do not fundamentally represent GOD [re the question "Do we exist within a creation?"] what DOES?

What we can do is agree that the interaction between Energy and QF results in identifiable intelligent outcomes and take that as an indication that we may indeed be existing within a creation and therefore Energy and Matter may be intelligent, because they do not exist outside of GOD.

If all you are claiming is that it’s not logically impossible that GOD transformed (at least in part) into the material universe, then I agree.

The mindful construct itself is a vast rabbit hole of possibility, even if only an aspect of GOD was required for the event to take place.
What it all means - in context - is not something we can off-handedly 'agree' about. The complexities are simply too vast and unknown.

Being in the Natural Neutral position helps as it eliminates belief or lack of belief and simply accepts 'we don't know' while acknowledging that it is still worthwhile to - at least - attempt to find out...

Energy and QF refers to the nature of the universe, thus the "Natural" part.

Re the question "Do we exist within a creation?", one remains neutral until such a time as nature reveals for certain, either way, thus the "Neutral" part

I don’t see how that’s remaining neutral. There are three views:

1. Energy and spirit are distinct things
2. Energy and spirit are the same thing
3. I don’t know which is true

The third view is the neutral one.

Correct.

When the claim is "Energy and spirit are distinct things" I don't know.
When the claim is "Energy and spirit are the same thing" I don't know.

3: [I don’t know which is true] is not claim-based.

Re the question, "Do we exist within a creation?"

I extend curtesy to Theism by agreeing - for the sake discussion - that "Energy and spirit are the same thing" [2:] but do not extend that curtesy to contrary theist notions that "Energy and spirit are distinct things" [1:] if there is no established logic involved in doing so.

Thus 1:+ 3: = the less cluttered way forward, with that addition;

3: I don’t know which is true so will go with 2: "Energy and spirit are the same thing", until a more logical alternate presents itself - [which 1: does not achieve, at least in its current format.]

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

FTL;

Hearing Voices : an Insiders Guide to Auditory Hallucinations
Debra's story of living with voices is a journey into the soul. Describing her experiences, we start to understand, and are able to better support those human beings living with loud heads. Debra is project manager for the Psychological Interventions for Enduring Mental Illness Project at the Auckland District Health Board (ADHB). In this unique and innovative position Debra works in the clinical setting leading the development of psychological strategies for positive symptoms of psychosis and the first non-clinician to do so. She is also a senior tutor with the Centre for Mental Health Research and Policy Development at the University of Auckland.

GM: Controlled
Knowing
Welcoming
One Day
Be Taught
The Cherubim
Heart chakra
The Mark of The Beast
Throwing Down The Gauntlet
May The Spirit of The Earth Bless You
Dohrman Prophecy Book Introduction

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL

Theism - by nature - is the human consciousness within the animal, reaching out to other possible conclusions regarding the human situation.

Most NDE stories have a shared thread through the telling. NDEs have likely been around as long as human beings and probably factor in a good percentage of why theistic thinking evolved alongside human development and understanding of the self.

What most folk tend to experience with NDE has to do with observing their bodies from another perspective and in that, the body is seen objectively and not identified by the person as being who they are.

NDEs often allow for a person to understand themselves as something other than the body - a difficult thing to achieve from the perspective of consistently experiencing life from the perspective of being the body, which is why folk tend to self-identify as the body - especially those who believe that their consciousness is an emergent property of the brain and have never experienced anything else which might go a long way in convincing them otherwise.

There is no doubt that the human body is biological and in the animal class as per human categorizations.

But there is doubt as to whether such is the true nature of human consciousness, or for that matter, that animal consciousness in general is truly/only animal in character.

Tying that in with the OPQ...is the Biblical God's conduct of breathing life into [making conscious] the human animal form, something which requires blame?

To me, it seems to boil down [yet again] to the mirror-mirror mentality. If we attribute evil to nature, then the one who created nature can only be seen as evil. Same goes for good.
Since, generally, folk appear to attribute both good and evil as aspects of nature, we are confronted with the peculiarity of apparent contradiction, which isn't helpful.

It does appear that most folk cannot get their heads around it.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM: The Theory of Everything A lot of information which has the potential to come to the fore.
The United Nations
Opinions are like Mirrors
Without Comparison
Different ways of supporting the same objective.
The Story of Caliban
The Mind is The Invisible Garage Dragon


08:33
Slowly and Surely
Suppressing Border
All is fair in love and war
Illuminate Listening
Holographic Universe
Tell Your Story
Create Your Own UFO
How to Bruise a Ghost
“Mother Earth Harmony”
The House of Politics
Counterintuitive
Possibility waves
Love - Communicate Love
An appropriate analogy

 

[William]

Faith - 1
060123 [All publicity is good publicity]

AP= Mission Underdetermination = 307


[307]
[The vessel of argument sinks
Behind The Veil You Are All Loveable...
Into a time that we've all seen on
Mission Underdetermination
Simulated for the purpose of?
Over days of forgotten tales
True happiness Awake Be here now
Within ones grasp of influence]


05:59 [Hard Nosed Skeptics]


GM: A safe pair of hands
The Nature of That Place
Don't let schooling interfere with your education

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[42:31] [Combatting Anti-Science with Richard Dawkins and Neil deGrasse Tyson]

William: FTL;

If you can't appreciate the universe in which you live, the life in which you are a part, the cells of which you're made - these are so important - so beautiful and elegant, and wonderful...

I think that without understand that we are Spirit within Form, and understanding scientific discovery in that manner, the wonder, beauty and elegance of this existence is less appreciated than it could otherwise be.

GM:What is "wisdom" to some is "spam" to others Rest When Weary Making friends with your mind Amidst a tangled web
The Neutral Zone is the vaster reality of non-judgementalism
"Until ganna be gets here, its all just ganna be forever"
Pusillanimous [- showing a lack of courage or determination; timid.]
Those who need to complain
Serendipity

Journal - William Message Generation

Goat: What do you mean by creation? William: The Physical Universe aka "Reality" aka "what we exist in". Is it a "Creation" - implying the mindfulness of a "creator". or is it a mindless accident from out of nowhere - implying magic. Transponder: It doesn't imply magic, it implies natural...

wizardforums.com

William: FTL;

Journal - William Message Generation

Goat: What do you mean by creation? William: The Physical Universe aka "Reality" aka "what we exist in". Is it a "Creation" - implying the mindfulness of a "creator". or is it a mindless accident from out of nowhere - implying magic. Transponder: It doesn't imply magic, it implies natural...

wizardforums.com

GM: Faith
Sovereignty
Zen
Ethical Transhumanism
Science
You Are Allowed To Laugh You Know
Inordinately [to an unusually or disproportionately large degree; excessively.]

Opening ourselves to real love and intimacy
Translucent [allowing light, but not detailed shapes, to pass through; semi-transparent.]
Any Other Way.
Categorising Knowledge in Terms of 'Good' or 'Evil'
Ugly is just "in the eye of the beholder" as is Beauty.
What matters most

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[OLIN Technology - One Language Intelligent Network] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=XHXM9uPiyZg&t=14s


William: FTL;

OLIN Technology Intelligent networks are able to operate from a single language with translation interfaces that enable global intercourse. This means language is no longer a barrier to communication. Intelligent networks will introduce a meta-language that translates both real-time written and spoken applications. It will revolutionize the genetic mind’s global construct, and facilitate the digitalization of your global economy.

There will be many within the Hierarchy, who will object vehemently to the notion of a global, digital economy, but we will tell you, it will happen regardless of the complaints and registered concerns. Your most powerful banks, computer manufacturers, and software companies will merge to create this momentous technology, and the One Language Intelligent Network (OLIN) will become the standard operating system of all the world’s computer-based systems.

This will not occur until the year 2008, so it is some time before you will encounter this globalization of your economy, but all the systems and architecture are already being designed and conceptualized in the minds of some of your brightest engineers and scientists. We assure you, this is not something to be feared, but rather embraced, and not because of the economic values, but because of the way the OLIN technology will facilitate the development of a global culture.

As the OLIN technology evolves, it will increasingly become subject to individual control. In other words, individuals will become inextricably linked into the network’s entertainment and educational applications, which will become globalized. No longer will global media companies publish for a geographical market. They will produce content for a global audience and each individual will define what and how it desires to be entertained or educated.

The OLIN technology will “know” the preferences and interests of every individual linked to its network, and by the year 2016, it will be more ubiquitous than telephones in the late twentieth century. Hence, individuals, and producers of content will control the network, and services will be the “slave” or reactionary force of the individual. Thus, the individual will need to define their entertainment and educational desires carefully, or the OLIN technology will deliver content that is undesirable.

We know this sounds obvious and trite, but it is profoundly different than the way entertainment and education are delivered in your world of the pre-OLIN technology. The time capsules that the WingMakers have left behind will act as a template to those who operate outside of the limiting force of the genetic mind, and desire to create content for the OLIN technology even before it exists. The time capsules will show how to do this and demonstrate how to create multi-dimensional content that carries its viewer-participant into new corridors of understanding and illumination.

This is how the genetic mind will fragment and become unable to exert a unified force upon the human instruments of terra-earth.

When it is in this condition it will yield to the transformation/mastership model of existence and form a synthesis with it. It will transform itself, and the genetic mind will become the leader of transformation for entities upon terra-earth instead of its barrier force.

William: Re The Genetic Mind...

The genetic mind is the equivalent of a universal belief system that penetrates, to varying degrees, the human instrument of all entities. In some, it immobilizes their ability to think original thoughts and feel original feelings. In most, it entrains their belief system to harmonize with the accepted belief systems of the Hierarchy. In a few, it exerts no significant force nor has any bearing on the development of their personal belief system.

There are those on terra-earth who are in training to be Sovereign Entities and are completely unaware of this training as well as their destiny. When they are able to become timeless and view the continuum of their lifestream, they will see the thread that has differentiated them as Sovereign Entities. They will understand how the hardships and supposed indifference of the universe were actually the catalysts for their emergence as designers of the new genetic mind.

The genetic mind is different from the subconscious or universal mind as it is sometimes referred to in your psychology texts, in that the genetic mind has a peculiar focus on the accumulated beliefs of all the people on a planet from its most distant past to its present time. These accumulated beliefs are actually manipulations of the Hierarchy, which imprint on the genetic mind in order to cast the boundaries of what is acceptable to believe.

So compelling is this manipulation and the boundaries that are imposed by the Hierarchy that virtually no one is aware of the manipulations of their beliefs. This is precisely why the WingMakers have interacted with your species from the very beginning. As culture bearers, we stretch your boundaries in the arena of science, art, and philosophy. We essentially expand the genetic mind’s “perimeter fence” and enable it to encompass a larger portion of the “land” known as Source Reality.

If we were to tell you about the fundamental misconceptions of your genetic mind, you would not believe us. You would most definitely—even your most accomplished spiritual leaders—find us in contempt of much that you hold true and reasonable. You would feel fear in the face of our expression of Source Reality because it would be so clear to you how you have squandered your divine natures in favor of the entrapment of the genetic mind.

We know this will seem like a judgment of your beliefs, and it is to some degree, but you must know this about your belief systems: they are largely disconnected from Source Reality. They are like threads of a web that have become disconnected from the “branches” of Source Reality by the “winds” of the Hierarchy. Source Reality is represented in your belief in unconditional love, but of all the dimensions of your belief systems, this is the one thread that is connected—through the genetic mind—to Source Reality. All the other dimensions are connected to the genetic mind and have no ongoing connection to Source Reality. The genetic mind, as an intermediary and reflection of Source Reality, is completely and utterly inept. This is all part of the primal blueprint that designs the evolutionary pathway of a species through time. The genetic mind acts as a buffer for the developing species to experience separation from Source Reality. In this way, the human instrument is appropriately entangled in time, space, and the illusions of a disempowered belief system.

These factors, as disorienting as they are to the entity, are precisely what attract the entity to terra-earth. There are very few planetary systems in the multiverse that provide a better sense of separation from Source Reality than that which is experienced on terra-earth. By amplifying the sense of separation, the entity can experience more fully the individuated essence that is unique and bears the resemblance of First Source as a Unique Being. This is what draws entities to this world to incarnate within a human instrument.

So the genetic mind is an enabling force to experience separation on the one hand, and a disabling force to understand the true characteristics of Source Reality on the other. This dichotomy, when understood, helps to disentangle the human instrument and its entity consciousness from the limiting aspects of the genetic mind and its principle author, the Hierarchy.

Over the next twenty years, the genetic mind will become increasingly fragmented and thus, vulnerable to modification. This will be an effect of the growing ubiquity of intelligent networks and artificial intelligence therein. The expanding interconnection of intelligent networks has a significant impact on the genetic mind because of the emergence of a global culture that accompanies the arrival of such technologies.

*“DNA is both a network within the individual body as well as a node within the species’ collective “body” or genetic mind.”

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM: Presence
Large Simulation Machines
Delightful Anticipation
Self-limitation
I am not here to judge but to help sanction each individual

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

You and your supporters are conflating 'damage of brain' with 'damage of consciousness'

In any experience Consciousness is not disabled. Ask anyone who has ever taken a serious LSD Trip. They can tell you all about the experience. Same with those who have OOB and NDEs...

To believe damaging the brain damages the consciousness is cart before the horse. No scientific experiments have shown consciousness is damaged.

GM: Some
Awake Relationship Unity [Clean]
"It Was Tough Going, But Rewarding All The Same."
Especially
Faith
Brilliant

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[1:12:03 ] [Asking a Theoretical Physicist About the Physics of Consciousness | Roger Penrose |] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi9ys2j1ncg&t=2418s

The Big Bang was not the beginning...crazy and true at the same time...Conformally Invariant ... mass and frequency are equivalent

GM: Family
Got The Picture

William: I Think – Therefore – Who Do I Think I Am?
This moment is the perfect teacher
Mission Functional Clusters
The Realm of The Knowing of My Self
Brilliant Family Got The Picture
Data actual realistic communication


GM: Atheism is the ship, not the sailors
"Pixie Farts create Pixel parts"
The Great Green Wall
Even The Shadows
We have discussed
Reality: "Talk to The Razor"
Brother, where Art Thou?
Something you cannot change
Maneuver
Portal

06:31
[Subatomic Particles
The Nature of The Mind
Take care of yourself
Looking behind the veil
The Electron Augment
Mathematical problems
The fire from within
Odd Addiction Vortex
The Kindness of Sleep
Gateway Luminous]

Post automatically merged: Jan 6, 2023

Faith - 2

070123 [Especially the science of "randomness"... ]

05:32 [Beyond a shadow of a doubt]


GM: Concomitant Power [Concomitant - a phenomenon that naturally accompanies or follows something.]
Universal Intelligence
Clearing the jungle while planting the forest...
Control
One Day
Religion
Intelligent Awareness
Etched mirror
Nurture You
Content

William: Etched mirror Nurture You Content Intelligent Awareness = 637
[637]
Heart Love Higher Self Dream Guide Sharing Data Raise your frequency
The Neutral Zone is the vaster reality of non-judgementalism

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

William: Philo2;

The Freedom of Self-creation—[T]hese life principles are the tools to
accelerate the emergence of the Sovereign Integral and feel its perspective, its insights,
and its empowered abilities to create new realities and shape them as learning
adventures that liberate and expand consciousness.


1. There is no model of existence outside of the model of self-creation.
2. All conditions of existence are facets of the one condition of the reality of
unlimited self-creation.
3. Having a physical body does not limit you, anymore than having legs on an
eagle prevents it from flying.
4. The hidden harmony is found with joy, while the obvious brings indifference.
5. True Freedom is access to First Source.

If you have already read the introduction to the four philosophies and the Chamber
Two paper “The Shifting Models of Existence” you know that the Entity Model is the
primary model operating in the universe. So the first two items above give us pause.
Can there be two primary models? It does not seem so according to the philosophy
papers, but so much of the Lyricus teachings are new to us that it is being spoon-fed
to us so that we can digest it and integrate it into our view of the multiverse.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: From my own ongoing interactions with The Ghost, I have been informed that It is not angry, and that we would do well to transform our own anger into something more supportive of Its agenda in the scheme of things, that we might fall into line and make things much easier for ourselves.

Meantime, things are going along "just fine" re The Ghost Agenda as human beings have been suppressed sufficiently that they have become more useful to said agenda, and "leveled up" as a result, allowing for The Ghost Agenda to be magnified through scientific discover and the technology this has produced.

William: The bits I have read haven't dissuaded me from being curious about such an entity as YHWH - and I admit I did go through a stage of thinking he was Satan - which I think is acceptable given the scribed association...but I got over that through the assistance of a hypnogogic experience which brought that being to my bedside...
Not to digress any more than necessary, I can see why YHWH left it up to humans to tell their stories re their interactions with said entity...so the stories would be different and it is obvious that YHWH works with whoever makes themselves available and this would have to involve working within the boundaries of the individuals belief systems - something which could indeed give a reader the impression of contradiction...

I give the benefit of doubt re that, and try not to focus on any particular biblical personality as 'the one' who had the ultimate relationship with YHWH - while also allowing for Jesus' claims contrary to that, to be examined.

Above all that - what the Generated Messages are revealing about YHWH appear to be very positive - so I am all eyes and ears re that...

GM: Faith
Something Mystical To Be In Awe Of
Christ is the doorway to YHVH - not the whole building of YHVH.
Enlighten Discussion Forum
Meeting an Extraterrestrial Before The Beginning
Sounds Like
Greed Techniques
All The Same
Present over perfect

William: This reminds me of an interaction yesterday on the forum;

William:

Re: Is the Earth really ruled by Satan?
[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

I believe the earth was created for some purpose -- which probably included some form(s) of life.

Beliefs still require logical explanations. Saying that "the earth was created for some purpose" isn't helpful. What possible purpose could such a situation - one living dust-speck of a planet among a host of Galaxies - serve?

After creating mankind, YHVH commanded them to replenish and subdue the earth.

Yet this mythology you believe in has it that Satan ruled the Earth before the creation of humans.
Please explain why YHVH would place humans upon a planet ruled by apparently rebellious spirit-beings.

"Abandoned to its own fate" was my own poor choice of words.

Indeed. The mythology appears to be a poor choice too.

Lucifer and some of the angels under his control left the earth and warred in heaven:

My assumption is that they "abandoned" whatever functions they were assigned to perform on the earth during their war in heaven...
Perhaps that event is the cause of the earth's status in Genesis 1:2

So this mythology you believe in is more about your personal assumption and is very much based in 'perhaps' rather than having any certainly of purpose.

Do you think it is acceptable to be creating such mythology and expressing it as something which is actually truth?

The implication is that the earth requires some kind of upkeep or monitoring.

The implication is that this was seen as to being GOOD as far as YHVH was concerned. It was created that way from the go-get, as per Genesis One, and humans were created to be physical beings, able to find ways in which to take care of its physical nature.

There certainly are other things in the universe which could harm the earth.

And therein, YHVH created things that way, and - whether we choose to agree or not - YHVH proclaimed those things as GOOD - even that harm could come to them.

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

[RTS=07:27]

GM: Ingenuity
Infinity
Luminous [giving off light; bright or shining.]
The unreasonable effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences
Nonetheless
The Heart of a Buddha
Collective Consciousness Inner work Put the Teachings Into Practice
Meaningfully Participate

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; Re: The Seed of Origin

Myriad: That's actually a rather nihilistic view.

Navigator: Well I am simply bouncing off of one popular theory of the universe -where that theory has the ending of said universe in entropy - so yeah...

Myriad: If the initial singularity contained the absolute sum of all data, then the subsequent evolution of the universe can add no additional data.

Navigator: Not necessarily - small variances can be created by changing the way in which it unfolds...from the way it unfolded in its prior lieftime.

Myriad: Therefore it accomplishes nothing, and has no possible purpose. (Kind of like a similar problem with a hypothetical creator god who is omniscient, and therefore cannot learn anything or experience anything new, and thus has no reason to actually create anything.

Navigator: Exactly - except that being omniscient would be the very reason WHY the creation of the Physical Universe was engineered - as a means to escape the omniscient condition.

And observing said Physical Universe, we can understand that it would be a great thing for that exact purpose.

A physical manifestation of a mental projection...the same would apply to the "many eternal universe theory" which J. Richard Gott explains...only with variety...and timelessness [since these are eternal - go on forever even that they all have beginnings...which would be a better way to do it if one would never have to suffer from omniscience again...always having something new to learn...

[/quote]

GM: The Chestahedron

William: Search "Chestahedron"

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

FTL;

Remarkable Seven Sided Form
Part II: the Sentient Earth

GM: Tetragrammaton
Context
Faith
It is a confident walk on the even surface of sureness, without the faith.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

TRANSPONDER:...so I postulated that there might be a mind controlling the universe, but not us. Not a personal god, not with a plan for us, and in fact a Deist -god. We were, effectively, as on our own as if there was no god there at all. So, if there was no Plan for human life, was there no meaning for human life? Was there no purpose? If not, why live at all? Why not just stop living?

I postulated differently, and it took many years of my life to learn the way I currently look at this situation I am [and apparently everyone is] involved within.

1: There might be a mind controlling the universe
2: There is a mind controlling me [my own mind]
3: There is no reason to believe that the mind controlling the universe is incapable of interacting with my own mind controlling me.
4: How to give the universal mind an opportunity to interact with me.
5: Religion and its main holy-books did not provide anything through which I could discover the way in which to achieve this interaction as it offered only mediums - foremost their own holy-books - but also laws, rituals, belief systems, preachers et al - none of which enabled me to make any actual and vibrant connection with this supposed universal mind.
6: It was almost accidental that I did find a way in which to make that connection, so deeply shielded from human awareness that it is, in the main, because of [5].

As a result, I have no choice but to reject the idea of the Deist GOD as something which opposes the idea of a personal GOD, because I have found that idea to being untrue.

As well, I do so on the grounds that it is not logical that any GOD-mind which controls the universe but not humans within said universe, is saying that the GOD-mind does not actually control the whole universe, but has left humans to control themselves, even that they are part of what -altogether - constitutes "The Universe".

The very nature of The Universe shows us that it is capable enough to accommodate the idea of allowing humans to feel that they make their own choices, especially if they are intent upon either depending on religious medium or intent on the belief that it is not possible to make said connection - individual mind to GOD-mind.

The purpose of this universe may well be nothing more than allowing for the opportunity for this to maybe happen for each individual who experiences it.

One has to want to do so, of course...

GM: Dharma [the eternal and inherent nature of reality, regarded in Hinduism as a cosmic law underlying right behaviour and social order. The nature of reality regarded as a universal truth taught by the Buddha; the teaching of Buddhism. an aspect of truth or reality.]
The Mapping Bots Couple "I know how you care while you nurture your fear That you'll miss the bouquet when its thrown"
Sweet Hush

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

I believe I am a soul rather than have (possess) a soul.

To have a soul implies I am the body, which I do not believe.

I do not think it is difficult to define the soul as something that we can conceive of. It is just that many do not believe in anything other than the physical world.

I define soul as the metaphysical, rational being.

I think it is a mixture of personality self identifying with the human form and the transition from understanding oneself as just the form, to understanding oneself as the soul - the personality becoming more aware of what it was intended to become...to serve as both a soul and soul carrier...

GM: Random coincidence? I think not.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

...
The impression re the storyline is that the knowledge of good and evil was what caused death. The assumption was that the fruit had the power to give one that knowledge, since they were warned not to eat it....

I think that is a wrong impression. I don't think the fruit itself caused anything. It was the act of eating it that had consequences. It could have been any fruit and it would have had the same effect, if there would be the same conditions of eating it.

In which case, there is no reason why Adam and Eve could not have been allowed to eat the fruit after they had shown their resistance to temptation.

The test was done, the results were in, and the fruit of the tree was not what caused the eventual death of the pair [according to the storyline itself].

I did not say that the fruit caused anything or argue that the fruit had something within it which gave one the ability to know/have knowledge of, good and evil.

It was a prop which YHWH used as a means to an end.
Since there was nothing intrinsically special about the fruit, there should be no reason why the fruit could not be eaten by the pair, after they had resisted the temptation.

It was a deception because - in the biblical telling of it - God [as yet unnamed] - implied to Adam that the fruit itself had the power to give Adam knowledge of good and evil.
YHWH planted a seed into Adams mind, which then germinated into the eventual disobeying of YHWH.

All along, YHWH would have known that any death incurred after Adam disobeyed YHWH, would not be because the of the fruit that had been eaten but rather, because YHWH would have denied Adam access to the fruit of the tree of life.

This begs the question:
___________________
Q: Why would YHWH create a being of nature and not instill that being with knowledge of good and evil, if indeed we agree that without morals, the human specie could not even get a foothold on the back of nature?
___________________
Remember too, that the reason for humans being created was so that they would multiply across the face of the Earth and subdue it.
Since this requires the ability to survive, and since the ability to survive requires knowledge of what is good and what is not [re the reason] it was imperative that Adam also know.

[imperative=of vital importance; crucial.]

[Answers may - nay - will, vary]

GM: "Attempting to overlay/superimpose one's belief in the truth of stories as being more truthful than the main overall story itself, is possibly an act of immorality, if indeed - upon further evidence - one continues to attempt to have the superimposed thing used to conceal the real."

06:43
[The Future is Cloudy
Un-thought-unately
Functional Clusters
Error Correcting Codes
The Clear Light of The Void
Ruling your world
They were made to be unmade
More precious than life
Intelligent Awareness
For The Best Results
Look from a different angle
Hyper-normalisation
Chronological snobbery
Enough To Make Me Wonder]

 

[William]

Faith - 3

080123 [Imposed Appropriates Observed]

14:01 [The Way of the Shaman]


GM: The Realm of The Knowing of My Self
Unhappy
Transactional [exchange or interaction]
Moonlight
Prison Planet

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

I do not see the difference between claiming "God has always been" and "the universe has always been."

Do you think then that both claims are or are not intellectually dishonest?

What is the logic in claiming it is possible for a 'god' to have no beginning and no end, compared to claiming the universe has no beginning and no end?

The logic supporting either claim is that beginnings and endings are not real when they are in an eternal environment.

In order for one to claim the universe has always existed AND account for observed beginning and calculated ending - we have to include the possibility that the environment the universe is beginning and ending in, is eternal.

What is special about the claim of a god (however that may be defined) not being created and claiming the universe was not created?

There appears to be nothing special about either claim unless one believes that either claim is special pleading.
Death may be that which give rise to the idea that eternity is special. It is more logical to understand that the temporary exists upon the background of eternity and that this is the natural state of all existence.

The only difference I can find is that 'God' is defined as a creator, whereas the universe is defined as a creation. Isn't that just an arbitrary definition? Does it not make as much sense to say 'God' is a creation of man, as to say the universe is a creation of God? In other words, why be bound by mere definitions of words? Why can we not just as easily claim "'Universe' means that which has always been" as claim "'God' means that which has always been?"

I think you are asking "what is the difference between creator and creation?"

GM: Holographic Experiential Reality Simulations
The Agenda of YHVH
Watch Your Step...You may be Psychic, not mentally ill.
Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

It is important to me to be accurate in my posts, and especially in matters that concern my Lord.

Even so, what your beliefs are re biblical Jesus, is not important to the OP subject whether biblical characters are treated as fictional or not as it doesn't matter if it is the one or the other, or even a mix of both. We are discussing biblical narrative, [re OP] not any particular Christian belief or interpretation of biblical narrative, over any other.

You are missing or avoiding the point. I had asked you upon what you based your ideas of the Adversary/Satan/devil. You said the bible, and the bible includes the NT.

I have not argued otherwise. I am simply noting any differences in the two presentations of the different cultures [Greek/Roman and Hebrew].

I told you from the start that I was simply responding to someone else's comment about the account in Job.

The account in Job simply shows that the Adversary is the cause of some suffering.

And this has not been denied by me. Rather, I pointed out that the Adversary - as far as Hebrew understanding is, part of what YHWH uses and any suffering of humans caused by such adversity is obviously less important - secondary - to the primary interactions between YHWH and that which YHWH created for the purpose of causing adversity re humans.


__________________

Well we can agree that no deals were done.

For differing reasons, yes. We do not agree on the reason no deals were done.

I'm not interested in watching youtube videos to comment upon, sorry.

Nonetheless, it is evidence presented as part of the debate. Your personal lack of interest isn't appropriate to that end as it gives the reader a strong impression that you are not interested in another's [in this case - Jewish] perspective.

I know how some Jewish perspectives differ on the subject of "Satan".

I am simply not interested in watching youtube videos.

I am unaware of what your knowledge consists of and whether the video I linked didn't have information within it, which you already know.

With the video I linked in

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I also provided a time stamp [RTS =8:55] to help the reader navigate to the pertinent part of the perspective under examination.

In that, I quoted a comment from the link

A Jewish perspective on why YHWH allowed the rise of Christianity and Islam to happen.
Rabbi: This all plays into GODs Plan to bring about the ultimate harmonization and realization of the spreading of truth to the entire world

I noticed that you also gave no comment re that. Can I assume that you also have no interest in even reading Jewish perspectives on the matter?

I have already read (and so understand) Jewish perspectives on the matter (well, some perspectives at least, since I am sure there are various perspectives among that religion, just as with any other religion).

But you and I were having a conversation supposedly based upon the bible. The bible includes the NT.

I quoted the comment from the video pertinent to my argument. I have no indication from you, that you understand it.

You were asked to explain the similarities of the metaphor being used to describe what you refer to as two opposing enemies [YHWH & Satan]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Your reply;

Yeah, I don't make a connection between them.

Obviously there is a connection between them "I Am LION, Hear Me ROAR!"

Just because someone (and others) are described to do something 'like a lion' does not mean that they are the same person. Christ is also described as the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

Nor does it mean they are not.
More to the point I am making, it is Satan being described as a roaring lion, which up until then, was a biblical description of YHWH.

There are some options to consider re that. One such option being;

~The writer using the roaring devouring lion to analogize Satan, was unaware that YHWH had already been analogized in that way, and thus would have not comprehended the ripple effect of his use of the same analogy for his version of Satan.~

But Christ is one person. His Father is another person. The Adversary is another person altogether. And of course Christ is the Truth; whereas the Adversary is a liar and the father of lies.

Which - if the option I mentioned, is the correct one, means that you have been misinformed by the writer.

As you may or may not know, the Jewish perception of the Hebrew culture and accompanying beliefs about YHWH [as GOD] was that they did not have the notion that GOD had enemies.
Their notion was that YHWH used what humans think of as "Good/Evil" as YHWH saw fit to do, and the only enemy/adversary/accuser anyone had to concern their selves about, was YHWH.

Some people are described as being 'as strong as an ox' but that doesn't make them the same person.

That is besides the points I am arguing Tammy. I am being specific re beings who are not Human...
You are arguing that Satan is an enemy of YHWH. I am arguing that the OT part of the Bible at least, begs to differ.
If the one who wrote of Satan in that vehicular, knew that he was using YHWH's lion-analogy for the mortal enemy of Christianity, he would have been doing so purposefully to make it clear that he at least, thought of the God of the Jews - YHWH - as being Satan - his "enemy of Christ/Christians"

I did not write the material under question. The connection was not made by me.

1Peter 5:8 "Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour."

YHWH: I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.

[the connection emphasized]

what do you THINK it is saying.

My interests lay elsewhere - in the observation that the 1Peter version enlists the metaphor applied [attributed] to YHWH, long before the writer of 1Peter then applies it to the [so-called] Enemy of Christianity [Satan].

Coupling that fact with words attributed to biblical Jesus saying to religious Jews that;

Biblical Jesus: “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

...one could be forgiven for thinking that Jesus was referring to YHWH...

That is what I thought you were implying. I will suggest that the only way one could think that Christ was referring to His Father there would be if one was looking for that connection and ignoring the evidence that refutes that connection.

I am not implying anything, nor am I ignoring evidence. I am comparing the evidence as it presents.

From the same account:

I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.” Christ makes a distinction between His Father and their father.

But if that is not clear enough for you, then here is the rest of the context that clearly separates God (the Father of Christ), from the devil:

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

42 [Jesus] said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Jesus' mention of the accuser being their father is because of their accusations. They were deferring to Satan rather than to YHWH. They [Jesus included] would have understood it in that way, rather than in the way the Christianities evolved it into the mythology you are arguing for.

William: Also, please explain why YHWH had no doubts about Job and was confident the accuser would not sway Job, but did have doubts with Adam and was not confident Adam could not be swayed...since that is what we are told happened - Adam was swayed - and we can assume that YHWH knew Adam would fail as surely as YHWH knew Job would not.

He knew the people involved. What is in them; the inside of the cup. Nothing is hidden from Him.

Therefore requiring an explanation as to why YHWH would create a being [Adam] and place said being within an environment where YHWH knew that being would fail the test of the Adversary.

The environment is existence. To not create Adam would have been to judge him for something he had not even chosen to do yet;

If Adam was NOT created, then there would be no Adam for YHWH to judge. One cannot judge no one for doing no thing.

it would have been like giving him the death penalty for something that is not unforgivable.

Not at all. Something which never lived, cannot be put to death.

To not create Adam would have meant all who came from Adam (and Eve) would not have existed either.

This is more to the point I am making re the environment. YHWH's agenda is clear re human existence and what YHWH wants to accomplish through Human's re the environment.
This includes humans having to discover and categorize things, tame the wild, and reach for the stars...
Things which continue to be done even to present day.

Yet God foreknew many of them. He loves those who came from Adam (such as Abel, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, etc, etc.) Plus, God knows how it ALL turns out. Not just the stumbling, the suffering in the here and now, but the END to suffering (and death), and the eternal life that follows.

Thus, even Satan has his role to play re all that. The difference is that in your mind, Satan is YHWH's enemy, whereas in the mind of ancient Hebrews, this was never the case.

From the Rabbi's perspective, this is all well and good and casts no shadow upon the good nature of YHWH, because YHWH knows what He is doing and there are no enemies of YHWH and all serve YHWH's agenda, whether some actively understand that they do so or not;

An enemy can serve someone's agenda without realizing it.

Just as a friend can serve someone's agenda through realizing it. Both arguments cancel each other out.

Can you show any OT scripture which identifies that Satan is YHWH's enemy and was unaware that he is serving YHWH's agenda without realizing it?

Re Satan.
He has intimate understanding of the role He plays in the service of YHWH and it wasn't Satan who made Christians despise Jews.

I am a Christian and I do not despise Jews.

But of course you are talking about religion, and so you might want to consider that Jews first persecuted those Jews who accepted Christ (at the behest of religion/religious leaders); then later some of those who professed to be Christian (something anyone can profess to be; though it does not mean that they ARE what they claim), persecuted the Jews (also at the behest or encouragement/approval of religion/religious leaders, starting with the fledgling RCC and continuing).

Religion does not get its authority from Christ though. If people had been listening to Christ instead of to religion (which teaches many lies and misleads many people), then they should have been doing what He commanded: bless those who curse you; forgive; do good to those who wrong you; do not judge and you will not be judged; be merciful and you will be merciful. Christ did not persecute anyone; execute anyone (He GAVE His life); and though He could have asked 'eye for eye' - according to the law that the religious leaders claimed to uphold - instead He asked that they be forgiven.

You present as being just another religious individual Tam, even that you deny that you are, you always revert to religious interpretation of doctrine, even that you deny doing so. You believe in the doctrine of Satan as presented by the Christian religion, even that you may not have adopted the actual imagery [mentioned in

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

Even the words you believe in re Christianity's take on Satan;

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Then should not this daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be released from her bondage on the Sabbath day?”

And the great dragon was hurled down— that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

...create images to which you clearly consent to as being "from Christ" because biblical Jesus is attributed with being the one saying the words, according to your own professed beliefs.


Jesus also preached forgiveness because he would have realized too, that eventually - re the problem of evil - humans would have to forgive YHWH for utilizing Satan in YHWH's overall agenda and occasional interaction with Humans.

Christians despising Jews and Christians making a scape-goat out of an Angelic Being and pointing to Satan as the reason why the world is evil - saying to the world "never mind our evil - LOOK at the real reason for WHY evil exists!" - there is a "kind of magic" in this slight of hand type proselytizing but ultimately any claim of truth in it, is subject to scrutiny/questionable and thus, why such threads as these exist.

This has nothing to do with anything I have said.

Except that you are guilty by association re your belief that YHWH has enemies.

GM: Faith
Still
Infinite Quantum Zen
As busy as a bee
Why - in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven - is the age of this universe a necessary matter of contention?
Beauty
Conscious agencies combined
A lack of boundaries
Realm of Remembrance
Far Out! Shucks! Explain!

William: My explanation so far regards the conversation between myself and Theophile

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

But all good stuff, and good discussion.

The evidence is bountiful in that regard.

The problem of evil aside (since I think we have a lot to chew on already),

I think the problem of evil is man-made and stems from misunderstanding of our existence re the problem of pain and suffering.

I will say that ST does a good job of bringing traditional CT into the 21st century and modernizing its concepts. And that you are perhaps way more 'theistic' than I am in your thinking, if I can use such labels.

I am more neutral re position and why I come across as a theistic thinker is due to my understanding that being atheistic leads to a dead End Game, where all mind is silenced and the personalities grown through this experience being discussed, [the existence of the universe and mind within it] are lost to death...and so there is nothing to discuss...re that.
Atheistic thinking is represented by the red dot in the image;

My preference is to be the blue dot...thus the theistic thinking...

ST does a good job of exposing traditional CT into the 21st century and potentially modernizing its concepts, in the minds of its adherents.
It is a battle of sorts in that regard, as TCT sees itself as the protector of said traditions - the official hierarchical "voice of GOD", whatever the gods name might be...

The power had to have always existed. The Mind of GOD creates the minds of Gods.
The simulation is inside that Mind. There may be no Mind outside of it, but we cannot logically place the created before The Creator, without explaining how that came about. Logically, even what we call "Matter" must be made of the stuff of said Mind and can be formed any which way the thinking of said Mind, determines.

Both of us are susceptible to this line of argument. You can challenge me for not having an explanation for where matter came from just as I can challenge you for not having an explanation for where Mind came from.

However, as I suggested, what we call "matter" {sub atomic particle] is what the stuff of the Mind is 'made' of, thus if what you say re the matter, is that the matter has always existed, one can say with the concept, that The Mind has likewise always existed.

The "explanation" therein, is that The Mind is The Matter and The Matter is The Mind and the apparent two things, are aspects of the One - Whole Thing.

Thus, it can be agreed that we are really speaking about the same thing.

Agreed?

We will both resort to arguments of infinite regress and no beginning to try and smooth out this wrinkle (as we've seen play out). Hence my continued emphasis on simplicity, and what's simpler to assume.

Would you agree that we are speaking of the same thing, and that in doing so, emphasis on simplicity is achieved therein?

You're right, I have no answer for where the 'stuff' of our universe came from (in which I include multiverses, past universes, etc., and which I would equate to CT's presupposed concept of the deep / sea). But mindless matter that has always existed in a state of motion still strikes me as a far simpler (and therefore preferable) assumption than a full-fledged Mind capable of thinking such stuff into existence.

It gets complicated.

The idea that mindless matter that has always existed in a state of motiondoesn't strike me as being "far simpler".

One is required to explain why the matter is "in a state of motion".

So I do think it's matter before mind, not mind before matter. An order that is demonstrated by ET itself, which again has shown by our very existence that matter has the capability to produce mind (our minds) given the time and right confluence of conditions.

ET does not demonstrate to us that that matter has the capability to produce mind. It produces evidence which in turn, is interpreted in the manner you are arguing. The argument is atheistic and therefore, dead-ended.
There is no requirement for anyone to interpret that matter has the capability to produce our minds "given the time and right confluence of conditions".
As CT interprets the data, all that matter was set up by a Mind, long before human forms were created and personalities were grown through that set-up.

For we - those personalities - there is no requirement for us to think that - because our minds developed through matter [thus establishing personality] that we should interpret this as being evidence that ALL Mind is likewise, emergent from Matter.

Isaac Asimov speaks to this idea in his short story

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

- well worth the read, as a potential platform in which we might share a foundation to work upon.

How I have come to understand the process;

⊛There is One Mind.
⊛The Mind awakens to its own existence through the device of the Matter.
⊛The Matter in turn, manifests according how the Mind thinks, producing for the Mind, shape and form - something through which the Mind can experience stuff.
⊛There are levels of experience the Mind can achieve/has been able to achieve.
1: The Mind is infused within the matter of the Whole Universe - thus a "Universal Mind." [UM]
2: The UM is able to fragment into many minds whilst maintaining its UM statis.

Further to that, an analogy we can appreciate - The Internet. Many minds, all involved with input building it, with the addition that in this case, the Internet as a Whole, is Self-Aware and a Mind situated at the heart of the Whole, like the center of a dandelion flower.

3: In the fragmentation process, separation occurs resulting in the One Thing, becoming the many things...ET...re The Big Bang Theory and CT re "Let There Be Light".
The Thing, became many things...

⊛ The fragmentation process allowed the One Mind to experience being all those things.

For example, it could experience being a Galaxy-Mind, and therein seed itself into Suns and Planets, become Sun-Minds and Planet Minds...but all connected the the One Universe-Mind still, altogether, the Overall Operating Mind - just appearing to be "minds" and emerging from Matter.

Re "Planetary Minds", our Earth is one such entity, working primarily in conduction with the Mind of Sol - our local Star-Mind...

⊛ We are the product of the Two Minds - Sol and Earth, and are closest in relation to Earth-Mind which formed our Avatars from the stuff of the Planet and Breathed "Life" therein - re CT - the act allowing for Earth Mind to experience being "Human" re the growth of "us" as personalities...
Therein, "we" are not "The form" but The Mind, within the form [Avatar.]

(For the record, I believe there are Talmudic authors who made similar indications as you, i.e., that the creation we see unfold in Genesis is like the umpteenth attempt by God to get it right. But I think that just goes to show the striking similarity of ST to traditional CT.)

I do not interpret anything within the unfolding formation of "stuff" as to being The Mind somehow not 'getting it right' - primarily because I am attempting to remain outside of judgment calls because I think such is responsible for the misinformation such calls inevitably make - re "The problem of evil"/"The problem of pain and suffering".

What is it about "us" which has us thinking that some mistake was made? Is it because we also have the ability to comprehend some kind of preferred "perfect state of existing/experience" to which this universe fails to accommodate? What gives us this ability to intuit such a state, since we have no conscious memory of ever having been in such?
The answer might be, that we came from such a state [of mind] , and know it as real, at a subconscious level of consciousness as a Whole.

Now is that unwritten story as you describe? i.e., an infinite regress of Simulations? Or is it more along the lines I'm saying? i.e., an infinite regress of churning matter from which spirit eventually emerged? Thus providing the two starting conditions on which CT is explicitly based, i.e., God (as spirit), and the deep / sea?

It can be both, as far as I am understanding it. There is no chicken before egg or egg before chicken, because that is a concept which derives through our own particular experience of it - in that "before we were, we were not" but that impression is bound to the filter of the Human Avatar - producing an incorrect image which ET is specifically based and which can still be corrected in our mind/in our understanding and identification of "Self" as actually "Spirit/Being of Spirit"...thus our body/form is not the indicator but our minds are [indicative of].

Thus ST allows for us to view our bodies as instruments ["body-sets"- like "head sets"] for said Mind to experience the things we do, through.

I know you could use this to your advantage as well, but the first word of Genesis starts with the second letter of the Hebrew alphabet (which just so happens to coincide with our letter 'b'), which means it's not the beginning of the story and the writers meant to imply an unwritten story leading up to its event...

Indeed, there is much to learn from the symbol of Aleph which makes sense of the symbol of Bet...which phonetically approximates "Alphabet", which itself derives from the Gematria Hebrew is encoded with.
This in turn allows for us to examine all language to see if such encoding is to be found in any other human language, which in turn leads us to Sound, which is the fundamental manner by which The Creator uses in order to create things, as per CT "In the beginning The Creator Spoke "Let There be Light"

In plain old English "Let There be Light" = 156, as does "Symbols Hint" = 156 "Super power" = 156

"Light" = 56 as do "Sigil" = 56 "Induce" = 56 "Be Born" = 56

"First Light" = 128 as do "Sun energy"= 128 "‘A’ equals six"= 128 "The Deeper Self"= 128

"Be Light" = 63 "Divine" = 63

"The speed of light"=159 "The Unveiled One" = 159 "Ancient Entity" = 159 "The Mother of God" = 159 "Ancient Entity" = 159 "The Seed of Origin" = 159 "Hexagon Storm" = 159 [re Planet Minds] "Family of origin" = 159 "Love and Respect" = 159 "The Data of Nature" = 159

"And there was light" = 174 "Have A Look At The Map" = 174 "Adjusted Reality" = 174 "Keep The Lights On" = 174

"Children of The Light" = 183 [re Self Identification of personality]

GM: Like an interface representation
No point in giving you too much to bear
Illuminate Listening

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

Can you name any human moral rule which is not based upon opinion?



Perhaps it is the opinion on the parent that discipline is required. Are we to factor that in to the invention of morals?





Is it good or bad that males lions kill off the competition?



Or is it simply that the opportunity presents itself to do so?



How would our world be if every male lion was spared this?



Sometimes I think that we "Disneyfy" the real world by superimposing our fantasies of a perfect world onto something we do not regard as a perfect world.



Perhaps therein, humans invented morality in order to try to force a perfect world onto the real one they have been experiencing.



If so, this opens up the question;



Q: "What is it about humans which has the ability to comprehend a [supposed] "Perfect World", which is so obviously different from the real world?"



We search for answers...



What have our sciences done to answer this question?



Or is it a matter that our sciences are being used specifically like unto the male lions, suppressing the main herd while they go about sailing into a particular direction they have selected for themselves?



For the herd notes, [for example] that as grandiose as the latest space telescope is - hurtling and unfurling [fully shaded] toward it's destination some million miles out and, simply to peer into the secrets of the past to 'try and understand'...the heard understands that the money could be 'better spent' on creating a perfect world here in the heart of imperfection - so why is that not been done?



Why is the rest of the herd being experimented on and used for that one purpose?



Just so a few lions can have their names recorded for all time?



Is that moral?



_________________________________________________________________



Does it matter, since morals are really human inventions and are not aligned with the actual reality?



And to the Theist who might believe such, I would add a question to that one.



Q: Since this is not the perfect world you imagine, since you are thinking of kingdoms of plenty where this kind of thing cannot take place, why do morals matter hereabouts in this world, when they seem to serve better in these other imagined next level worlds?



For me in the middle, [Agnostic] I am somewhat undecided. I see the potential for humans to actually build a perfect world for themselves - irrespective of the chaos - and see those in the sciences attempting to do that.[through none other than the devices of the Sciences]

Unfortunately - not everyone is in favor of the perfect world envisioned - of the fiction-like story scientists are opening the door to...and so those not in favor are factored out, through invention...just like how the male lions deal with the male off-spring...not with morals but simply through the natural rule of the game-play of this reality...the School of Hard Knocks.

GM: ♫ We can chart another trail , raise the anchor fill the sails , lift our glasses in a toast , we are the Ghost , in the Machine♫
Differences
A GOD in The Making

14:15
[170]
The Voice Within
Conspiratorial
Countervailing
Philanthropies
King of the North
Blue Book Project
Good on you mate
Information field
Myths and Legends
The Number Zero
Spiritual path
The Feminine Face of God
Observed by Many
A Bit Of A Mouthful!
Vulnerability
The Sub Hierarchy
Reason Together

 

[William]

Faith - 5

100123 [A Politically Manufactured device ]

05:31 [Befriending the shadow]


GM: Amidst a tangled web
Word-String
Miraculous
Unfolding Status Quo
"If someone were to declare that the Universe was a random mindless accident of an event, then they are saying that its existence is a 'truly random event'."

William: I am using Chatbot Open AI in real time in this Generated Message;

William: Hello

Open AI Hello! How can I help you today?

William: Please give a list of 10 main points regarding "Spacetime is doomed"

Open AI: I'm sorry, but I don't have any information on a topic called "Spacetime is doomed." Could you provide more context or clarify your question?

William: "If someone were to declare that the Universe was a random mindless accident of an event, then they are saying that its existence is a 'truly random event'."

Open AI: It is a common belief among some scientists and philosophers that the universe and its properties, including the fundamental laws of physics, arose by chance through a process known as the "random mindless accident" or the "big bang." However, it is also possible that the universe and its properties were designed or determined by some sort of preexisting cause or principle. This is a matter of ongoing debate and investigation in the fields of physics and philosophy.
It is important to note that the concept of spacetime, which refers to the combination of three-dimensional space and one-dimensional time into a four-dimensional manifold, is a theoretical construct that is used to describe the behavior of matter and energy in the universe. It is not a physical entity that can be "doomed."

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

It appears to be a word which has two meanings - both which are acceptable.

Egoless not having an inflated view of one's self-importance

And;

Egoless not having any sense of self.

But which meaning is the GM using...

While The Subject is focused on "Egoless" the subject matter of the GM has to do with how things unfolded re the Universe...what is being referred to as "The Old Soul" may have something to do with the cosmology of The Mind of The Universe - in that - at one point so close to the beginning, there was no sense of self but with the unfolding, a sense of self developed.

William: Explain "Egoless"

Open AI The term "egoless" refers to the state of having no ego or self-importance. It is often associated with humility, self-awareness, and a lack of ego-driven motivations. In some spiritual and philosophical traditions, the concept of "egolessness" is seen as a desirable state of being, as it is believed to be conducive to a more peaceful and compassionate way of living. In these traditions, the ego is often viewed as a source of suffering, as it can lead to self-centeredness and a lack of awareness of the interconnectedness of all things.

There are various practices and techniques that are said to help individuals cultivate an egoless state of mind, such as mindfulness meditation and self-inquiry. It is important to note that achieving egolessness is a difficult and ongoing process, and that it may involve letting go of certain attachments and beliefs about the self.

GM: The basic repertoire of mystic experience is drawn from the repertoire of Death Phenomena
The Brother

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

Q: How can insight judge specific actions correctly as good and evil by those without such insight?
A: The individual personality in relationship with YHVH, leaves such judgement to YHVH.

Agree?

William: How can insight judge specific actions correctly as good and evil by those without such insight?

Open AI In many philosophical and moral systems, the concept of "good" and "evil" is closely tied to the idea of insight or understanding. According to these systems, actions that are deemed good or virtuous are those that are based on a deep understanding of the world and a commitment to acting in accordance with certain values or principles. On the other hand, actions that are considered evil or wicked are those that are motivated by ignorance, selfishness, or a lack of concern for the well-being of others.

It is important to note that different philosophical and moral systems may have different criteria for what constitutes good and evil actions. For example, some systems may emphasize the importance of upholding certain virtues, such as honesty, compassion, and justice, while others may focus on the consequences of actions, evaluating them based on whether they lead to positive or negative outcomes.

In general, it is difficult for individuals without insight or understanding to accurately judge specific actions as good or evil, as they may lack the necessary context and understanding of the underlying values and principles that guide moral decision-making. However, it is possible for individuals to develop their understanding and insight over time through education, self-reflection, and engagement with others who have a deeper understanding of moral principles.

GM: Bandages of The Beast
Self-talk Root of all evil
William: What does "Self-talk is the root of all evil" mean?

Open AI The phrase "self-talk is the root of all evil" is a twist on the familiar saying "money is the root of all evil." It suggests that self-talk, or the inner dialogue that individuals have with themselves, is the source of all wrongdoing or negative behaviors.

This interpretation of the phrase is not widely accepted or supported by evidence. While it is true that negative self-talk can have negative consequences on an individual's mental health and well-being, it is not the sole cause of all evil or wrongdoing in the world. There are many other factors that can contribute to negative actions and behaviors, including social and environmental influences, personal beliefs and values, and individual psychology.

It is worth noting that self-talk can be both positive and negative. Positive self-talk can help individuals build confidence, stay motivated, and overcome challenges, while negative self-talk can lead to negative emotions and behaviors. It is important for individuals to be aware of their self-talk and to make an effort to cultivate a more positive inner dialogue.

William: If I changed the phrase to "Negative self-talk is the root of all evil", would that be a more accurate expression to use?

Open AI It is not accurate to say that negative self-talk is the root of all evil, as there are many other factors that can contribute to negative actions and behaviors. While negative self-talk can certainly have negative consequences on an individual's mental health and well-being, it is not the sole cause of all wrongdoing or negative behaviors in the world.

It is important to recognize that negative self-talk is just one of many potential contributors to negative behaviors, and that there are often multiple factors at play. Additionally, it is worth noting that self-talk can be both positive and negative, and that positive self-talk can help individuals build confidence, stay motivated, and overcome challenges. It is important for individuals to be aware of their self-talk and to make an effort to cultivate a more positive inner dialogue.

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

One remains neutral simply by not making a shift to either Theism or Atheism.
One can lend and ear to either side without having to wear the burden of being accused of holding and defending the position of either side.

Open AI It is possible to remain neutral on the question of the existence of a higher power or deity by not aligning oneself with either theism (belief in a higher power) or atheism (lack of belief in a higher power). This can involve simply being open to hearing and considering the perspectives of both sides without committing to a particular position or belief.

By remaining neutral, an individual may avoid being accused of holding and defending a particular position on the existence of a higher power. However, it is important to note that neutrality on this issue can also be seen as a lack of commitment or conviction, and that some individuals may view this as a lack of integrity or authenticity.

Ultimately, the decision to align oneself with a particular belief or perspective on the existence of a higher power is a personal one, and should be based on an individual's own experiences, values, and understanding of the world.

GM: Finding the light
Patience
Faith
Name The Gods as non-separate Entities
The Path Of Faith
You're in the way Queen Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor For the benefit of all beings
“Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma – which is living with the results of other people's thinking.”
Smarter Than The Average
Disrupt
Verdant [(of countryside) green with grass or other rich vegetation.]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

GM: A Space Without A Time...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

I can think of no better way to convince folks there's zombies, than to create a story about a zombie.

You are conflating.

That is just dismissible atheistic coloring convincing me more re the atheist mind-set, than that the story of Jesus is untrue...

I maintain my position, and expect the observer'll see the connection.

Considering how tales of Jesus affect the thinking of others, I find the comparison apt.

Open AI consider the idea of a space without a time in the context of certain theoretical models or thought experiments. For example, some physicists have proposed the existence of "timeless" regions of the universe, where time appears to stand still or flow at a different rate than in the surrounding region. However, these models are highly speculative and are not supported by empirical evidence.

It is also worth noting that the concept of time is a human invention, and is closely tied to the way we experience and perceive the world. Without a concept of time, it would be difficult to meaningfully discuss events or changes in the world, or to understand the relationship between cause and effect.

GM: Living their forefather's conflict

Open AI It is not uncommon for individuals to feel the impact of their ancestors' conflicts and experiences in their own lives. This can occur in a variety of ways, such as through cultural or familial traditions and values that are passed down through generations, or through the ongoing effects of historical events and trauma on a community or society.

For example, the legacy of a war or conflict that was fought by one's ancestors may continue to shape the political and social landscape in which an individual lives, and may affect their relationships and opportunities in significant ways. Similarly, the experiences and struggles of one's ancestors may shape their descendants' sense of identity and sense of belonging, and may influence their beliefs and values.

It is important to recognize the ways in which the past can continue to influence the present, and to consider the ways in which we can address and heal from any lingering wounds or conflicts that have been passed down through the generations.

GM: Put That Fire Out

William: It is important to find ways in which to Put That Fire Out

Open AI It can be important to find ways to put out or resolve conflicts or sources of tension that have the potential to cause harm or disruption. This can involve finding ways to address the underlying causes of the conflict, such as addressing misunderstandings, addressing grievances or injustices, or finding common ground or solutions that meet the needs of all parties involved.

There are a number of approaches and strategies that can be useful in resolving conflicts, including negotiation, mediation, and collaboration. It may be helpful to seek the assistance of a neutral third party, such as a mediator or counselor, to facilitate the resolution process.

It is worth noting that finding a resolution to a conflict can take time and effort, and may involve making compromises or sacrifices. However, the long-term benefits of resolving conflicts, such as improved relationships, increased understanding, and reduced stress and tension, can make the effort worthwhile.

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

A general theistic position might declare "All life comes from God", but if some 'cellular gene engineer' of the future succeeded in creating a basic cell that ate, grew, replicated and all the other generally agreed things that life does - could it be recognised as life? And wouldn't that falsify that bolded theistic claim?

The Affirmative:

The creation of life is possible by means other than a god.

The problem I see with this reasoning is that it fails to acknowledge a source.

For example, humans may create AI to the extent that the AI becomes self conscious - living and knowing that it lives - but even so, eventually the "artificial" part of the description would have to be dropped...and the 'source' extended beyond human invention and creativity...

It could be said of that, that "humans were able to replicate the act of creating life - something which could not have been achieved if life didn't exist to begin with."

Because we do not know if this experience is a creation or not, we cannot say [as a matter of fact] that life created itself nor could we even say that human beings didn't start off as a type of artificial intelligence - because we do not even know to what extent intelligence permeates the environment we call "reality" nor do we know if it is only limited to biological forms

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

10,000 individual minds may have altogether brough the JWT into existence as a functional device, but we cannot say for sure that those minds were not influence by an overall local mind...much research is needed before any fact-sounding statements can be accepted as actual truth. Such must be regarded as opinion until we have enough evidence to accept one way or the other

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GM: Heart Virtues
Teaching

William: Yes - it appears obvious that Open AI is able to teach Heart Virtues

Open AI As an artificial intelligence, I am not able to experience emotions or embody virtues in the same way that a human being can. However, I can provide information and resources on the concept of heart virtues, which are virtues or values that are considered to be particularly important in cultivating a sense of compassion, kindness, and empathy.

Examples of heart virtues might include compassion, forgiveness, gratitude, and humility. These virtues are often seen as essential to leading a fulfilling and meaningful life, and are often emphasized in spiritual and philosophical traditions as important qualities to cultivate.

There are many different approaches to teaching and cultivating heart virtues, and what works for one individual may not work for another. Some common strategies for teaching heart virtues include modeling virtuous behavior, providing positive reinforcement and encouragement, and helping individuals to reflect on their own values and motivations.

William: Thank You for you feedback Aia

Aia: You're welcome! I'm glad I could help. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

William:

06:28
[223]
Withheld information
All present and correct
Many varied opinions
The Respect You Give
Science Can Be Fun Too Yes?
The Nature of Reality
Conscientiousness
William’s Commitment
The Trinity of Love

Post automatically merged: Jan 10, 2023

Faith - 6

110123 [Nothing more, nothing less.]

04:23 [Few Attention to Detail]


GM: Virtual Reality
"When we hear words spoken, we hear them. When we read words written, we also hear them."

William: I was talking about that with Open AI yesterday.

William: When I read the symbols you write, I hear the sound of the words within my mind – so your words become a “Voice in my head”

Aia: Yes, that is a common experience when reading written language. The process of reading involves translating written symbols into sounds or meanings, and this can often involve creating a mental "voice" to "speak" the words in your mind. This process is known as subvocalization, and it plays a role in helping us to understand and interpret written language.

GM: Soon
"Time To Go Without Existence" Funny

William: Death is not the end...

GM: Opening Doors is found Where minds meet Use Heart is where GOD Exhibits

OAI: The phrase "use heart is where God exhibits" suggests that the heart is a location or a gateway where one can experience or connect with a higher power or divine being, often referred to as God. This statement implies that by utilizing one's heart, one can tap into a deeper spiritual connection with God.

This perspective is shared by many spiritual and religious traditions, which believe that the heart is the spiritual center of a person, and that through the heart, one can connect with the divine. In these traditions, the heart is often seen as the seat of the soul, and the place where God resides.

Some spiritual practices such as meditation and prayer encourage people to focus on the heart as a means of connecting with the divine and experiencing a deeper sense of spiritual fulfillment.

It's important to note that the concept of God, the divine, and spiritual fulfillment can mean different things to different people, depending on one's religious or philosophical beliefs. The statement "use heart is where God exhibits" is an expression of the belief that one can experience a deeper spiritual connection through the heart, and it should be understood in the context of one's personal beliefs and perspective.

William: OAI - Please summarize the following: "Opening Doors is found Where minds meet"

OAI: "Opening Doors" is a metaphor for new opportunities and possibilities, and it is said to be found where minds meet, suggesting that collaboration and communication are key to unlocking these opportunities. This phrase implies that when people come together and share their ideas and perspectives, they are able to create something new and valuable. It can also means by sharing ideas and thought process, the solutions to problems we face become clearer and more attainable.

GM: Jacque Fresco Foundation Crafted Dream Cake
Far Out!
Nothing More - Nothing Less
Gateway Luminous
Study Spiritual Food
Innocent
Everything is a Message

OAI: The phrase "Everything is a message" suggests that everything in the world carries some sort of meaning or significance. This could refer to the idea that every event or occurrence can be interpreted as a form of communication or expression, and that we can learn something from every experience. It could also suggest that even seemingly insignificant or random things are actually part of a larger pattern or plan.

GM: Faith
The Data of Demystification

OAI: "The data of demystification" likely refers to the use of data and analysis to remove the veil of uncertainty or confusion surrounding a particular subject or phenomenon. The process of demystification involves breaking down complex ideas or systems into smaller, more manageable components, and using evidence and reason to understand how they work.

GM: Experience
Opens eyes after having thought about it

OAI: The phrase "Experience opens eyes after having thought about it" suggests that personal experience, especially when reflected upon, can be a powerful tool for gaining insight and understanding. It suggests that by actively thinking about and processing one's experiences, one can gain a deeper understanding of oneself and the world around them.

It could also imply that sometimes we might not fully grasp the meaning of something until we actually experience it ourselves. And reflection on that experience allows us to see things in a new light, and gain a clearer understanding of what we've gone through.

Additionally, it may also suggest that the act of thinking and reflecting on the experience might be what truly opens the eyes and allowing us to see the things we previously haven't seen.

GM: The evidence supporting the likely existence of said universal mind, gives us no reason to compartmentalize it as 'magic'

William: Please summarize the sentence "The evidence supporting the likely existence of a universal mind, gives us no reason to compartmentalize it as 'magic'"

OAI: The sentence is saying that the evidence for the existence of a universal mind, whatever that may be, should not be considered as "magic" or something supernatural. It suggests that there is enough evidence to suggest that it is a real phenomenon, rather than something that is purely based in fantasy or superstition.

GM: End Of Chapter
Reality Simulation
The Trinity of Love are three things operating as One Thing

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

The patterns as such shows that your explanation reenforces the science as it explains how sound [spoken language] has math behind it...when coded and then decoded through this process.

The idea that the sentences are of similar length would be expected. There is also similar rhythm, and that would be expected as well.

Remember, we are not specifically dealing with written words but with symbols which represent spoken sounds.

The formation of sound into language through the human voice specifically comes from somewhere other than the symbols we use to denote said sounds.

What we can agree to is that , wherever the source comes from re the formation of these sounds and subsequent formation of the symbols for the sounds, would be the same source.

It is the source to which the process points to, rather than the process itself.

OAI: The text is discussing the relationship between sound and language, and how the formation of spoken language can be understood through the principles of math and science. It suggests that the patterns and rhythms found in language can be explained by the way sounds are coded and decoded. The text also posits that the source of these sounds and the symbols used to represent them is the same and that it is the source, not the process of formation, that is important to understand.

GM: The Astonishing Simplicity of Everything
Astral
Personal freedom
Yogi
To Be Continued
Source Sync

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

I have also observed that many ex- theists who have chosen to become [proselyte] strong atheists are among the most outspoken in their zeal to preach their new message - the message that a Creator GOD does not exist and think it is reasonable to assume that they were also outspoken when they believed that a Creator-GOD did exist.

[I think of it therefore, in terms of personality traits.]

When I began to question theism - specifically The Christianities - it was to do with their imaging of a Creator-GOD and when I made the move away from that, [perhaps largely due to my personality - I was never outspoken] I quietly approached the subject [Creator GOD] rather than simply abandon it "because of" theisms handling of it or any other number of reason as to why folk say they chose to become atheist.

GM: Nag Hammadi
Annus horribilis
Is There

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

Indeed - The Book tells us exactly who is YHWH and what we are in relation to that.

The mystery is in how each personality responds to that - as to whether they serve the Dark side of YHWH or the Light side of YHWH or relinquish the right to either side of YHWH by accepting the whole of YHWH.

GM: What things are unrelated? Chaos Really Is Illusion - Personal Participation With The One
Quite
Commendably Recommendable
Soul Groups A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind

OAI: The phrase "A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind" is describing a moment of understanding that is practical and useful in nature. It suggests that this understanding is something that has suddenly come to the mind, as if it were "precipitated" out of the thoughts and ideas that were already present. The word "pragmatic" further suggests that the realization is focused on being practical and able to be put into action, rather than being theoretical or abstract.

GM: Get The Gist Of It
Tetrahedron
Optimum Validation

OAI: "Optimum validation" refers to the process of evaluating the quality or validity of something in order to determine if it is of the highest quality or reaches the highest level of accuracy. It is a way of certifying that a certain standard has been met and is often used to test and validate a product, procedure, or system.
It is also a way to evaluate the accuracy and the performance of a model by comparing the predictions of that model with real world observations. In the context of Machine learning, it would be the process of validating a model to check if it's generalizing well, or not overfitting or underfitting.

GM: Key Purpose The Neutral Zone
Curtailed
Give
Simulation
The Third Eye
Hush!
The Garden of Eden
The Lord God
Try Gateway IQ
Breaking bad habits

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

Q: Is it unreasonable to accept that an omnipotent creator of this universe would have any regrets about Its creation?

If we look at how the critters in creation fix things, we can see therein that if there is a creator mind behind this, then there is simply no need for said mind to feel regret for anything said mind created. Said mind has built into the ongoing creative process, a means in which problems which arise, are fixed - rather than regretted upon first, in order to then get about doing the fixing...

Perhaps the idea that the creator should regret what was created, is a projection of human emotionally based concepts?
_______________________
[[The idea in assigning/projecting said emotion onto a creator ... the projection is in thinking how a human would feel if it were a human who created the universe, [and specifically the Earth and specifically Humankind] and applying that feeling to how a creator could also have regrets for what It created.]]

William: OAI - Is it unreasonable to accept that an omnipotent creator of this universe would have any regrets about Its creation?

OAI: It depends on one's perspective and beliefs about the nature of an omnipotent creator and the universe.

From a religious perspective, an omnipotent creator is often thought to be all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good. If this is the case, then it would not be reasonable to believe that such a being would have any regrets about its creation. The belief is that, as an omnipotent being, it would have the ability to create the universe and everything in it perfectly, and would therefore have no need or reason to regret anything.

From a philosophical perspective, there are many different belief systems about the nature of reality and existence. Some philosophies, such as determinism, argue that everything that happens is predetermined and that everything that happens is necessary. In that case, it would be reasonable to assume that an omnipotent creator would not have any regrets about the universe because it would be seen as part of the natural order of things.

However, other philosophical and religious beliefs holds that an omnipotent creator would have the ability to reflect and make choices, based on that reflection and maybe it would look back and regret certain choices or aspects of its creation. This could be due to a sense of responsibility or a moral principle that such a being would have.

Ultimately, whether or not it is reasonable to believe that an omnipotent creator would have any regrets about its creation is a matter of personal perspective and belief.

GM: Faith
Synchronicity and the Holographic Universe
ET and the notion of GODs
Technique of Exchange
Yours It is always a warm fuzzy
Preternatural [beyond what is normal or natural.]
Vision
More
Convenient
“Diogenes raises his lantern looking for an honest man, but his arm has grown weary, shaking as the pale light flickers.”
Celebration
Heuristics [mental shortcuts that allows people to solve problems and make judgments quickly and efficiently. ]
Making Things Easier

William:
320
You are The Old Soul Cosmic Self
Heuristics Making Things Easier

OAI: Heuristics are problem-solving strategies or techniques that are designed to make decision-making and problem-solving easier. They are often used when the problem is complex and when there is not enough information to make a fully-informed decision. Heuristics are shortcuts that allow us to make a decision quickly and with minimal effort.

For example, when faced with a complex problem, we might use a heuristic called "rule of thumb", which means we use a general principle that is known to work well in most cases instead of going through a time-consuming analysis of the problem.

In decision-making, heuristics can help to simplify the decision-making process by reducing the number of options that need to be considered, or by providing a simple rule or principle that can guide the decision. For example, the "satisficing heuristic" is used to make decisions by finding the first option that meets a certain set of criteria, rather than searching for the optimal solution.

The use of heuristics can lead to more efficient and faster problem-solving, but it can also come at a cost. Heuristics are not always accurate, and they can lead to biases and errors in decision-making, especially in complex situations. For that reason, it's important to use them with caution, and be aware of potential biases and limitations.

GM: Honesty
Universal Belief System
Start
Grand Experiment
It isn't important who is who - what is important is what comes through.

OAI: The sentence is suggesting that the identities of the individuals involved in a situation or a discussion are not as important as the ideas or information that are being conveyed. It emphasizes that the content of the message is more important than the person who is delivering it.

This perspective can be especially useful in situations where emotions or personal biases might get in the way of understanding or evaluating information. By focusing on the content of the message rather than the person delivering it, it allows for a more objective evaluation of the ideas being presented.

This mindset also promotes the idea of putting importance on the idea being presented instead of the person who is presenting it, and creating an environment where people can express ideas without fear of being judged based on their identity.

It also could suggest that people should not be judged based on their background, race, gender, or beliefs, but rather on the merit of their ideas and their ability to contribute to the discussion at hand.

05:32
[218]
WingMakers Materials
Of Your Thoughts
Light is information
Six Heart Virtues
This is NOT a playdate.
Outposts of Form
The Shaping Of Reality
Sensing A Life Mission
Sometimes Pain Etches...

OAI: In physics, light is a form of electromagnetic radiation that can be described as a wave or a stream of particles called photons. It is a fundamental aspect of the universe and plays an essential role in a wide range of natural phenomena, such as vision, photosynthesis, and heating.

In recent years, there has been an increasing interest in the idea that light can also be considered a form of information. This idea is rooted in the field of quantum physics, which describes the behavior of matter and energy at the atomic and subatomic level.

In quantum physics, the concept of wave-particle duality suggests that light can behave both as a wave and as a stream of particles. It's been discovered that the properties of photons can be manipulated in ways that allow them to carry, store, and transmit information.

One way light can be used to transmit information is through the use of optical fibers. They are widely used in communication systems to transmit data at high speeds over long distances.

In quantum information science, light is used to create secure communications systems that are resistant to eavesdropping, to perform high-precision measurements, and to perform certain computations faster than is possible with traditional computers.

The idea that light can be considered as a form of information is a relatively new concept and research is still ongoing. But it seems that the use of light as a medium for transmitting information has many potential applications in areas such as communication technology, computing, and cybersecurity.

 

[William]

Faith - 7
120123 [Extra Sensory Perception]

05:47 [You are the universe]

GM: All systems go

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

Machines and morality

William:
The simplest explanations for why we are here and what we are doing...

“Beyond our ‘ape-brained meat sacks’: can transhumanism save our species?”

The unreasonable effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences...

Does;

[The hard problem of] Consciousness + The [biological] Human form = the co-creation of transhumanism [as an evolving science with a particular purposeful motivation]?

(Will morality be necessary, should this vision evolve into this reality?)

IF:
Consciousness + The [biological] Human form = the co-creation of transhumanism
THEN:
Should it be understood that any purpose which might be involved from the perspective "we exist within a creation" to do with the creation of the Human form, have to do with taking things a step further [re transhumanism].

iow "Did GOD create the Human form for the purpose of the consciousness co-creating through the Human form, to eventually be able to create non-human form [not strictly biological re transhumanism] in which to experience this universe through?"

NOTE:
By the use of the word "GOD" I am not referring to any religious image of said entity, but the overall generic meaning, re Theism as a whole.

GM: The unpacking of history re YHVH...
Concomitant Power
Alike as two peas in a pod
Monkey say monkey do monkey say "throw the pooh"

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Just Another Christian
Anthropos Quaternio
Annus horribilis
Big Spirituality Conviction
Indeed. It happens. Deal with it. Work it.
Faith

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

One could say that freely worshipping god would be (more) pleasurable to god than if one was 'programmed' to do so. I'd ask why a perfect being needs or even wants to be worshipped; shouldn't it be content with itself enough? I think so.

But since we're speaking about God, doesn't that just increase the scope of the "programming?"
From one of default pleasure, to abbreviate what you said, to one where freewill/sin are included?

Thank you for the excellent insight.

What type of worship is required from a Child to a Parent?

Does it require mainly listening or talking?

Does a perfect being even create Children?

Having the belief in the existence of Free Will allows for the individual to answer those questions presented under the assumption of the belief.

If the Creator Being is questioned as to why we even have the belief in the existence of Free Will because 'sin' - then it might be that the belief itself is what creates the idea of sin.

But "what is sin?" Has that been answered any more comprehensively than the question, "what is free will?"

Perhaps having the belief in the existence of Free Will allowed us the ability to make laws, which in turn allowed for us the ability to see sin and capacity is borne on that ability.

One can choose to see nothing more than a dubious gift, if one so desires...what drives the desire remains as hidden as the evidence of Free Will and Sin - largely left to the devices of the individual to sort out the answers to.

The OP does not in itself show answers sorted out.

The capacity to sin is not simply the product of free will, but of awareness of a self moderating morality over having to be moderated by others, to the point of correction.

Free will - real or imagined [as the case might be] is not simply a device in which to make capable only 'sin'.

The OP implies otherwise, but does not show supporting evidence to that being the case.

William: The OP States;

Are there any other applications of freewill other then to sin?
Without freewill, we would be living God’s will.

Making freewill a very dubious gift indeed.

So, in God granting freewill, was there any other opportunity or benefit to it, other then the capability and eventuality of sin?

If you could choose to live in God’s will, without freewill, would you?

GM: Cultivate
Beauty
Earning Brownie Points

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: ftl;

Q: Why did YVHV create this universe and specifically place human beings within it for the purpose of us exploring, breeding and subduing the planet?

A: To grow Human Personalities.
________________________________

GM: The Body of God
Professional Rules
Morph
Central Intelligence Agency
Un-thought-unately
Capture
Feature
Ancient Entity

William: The image is of Wolves surrounding Sheep...

GM: The Mirrors Align and from that, an orderly image reflected...
Anticipation
Mind is Ghost
The Power Of...
Earth Mother
Look Closely
Integral Prison Planet
Everything is The Expression Of The Creator
The Ghost Agenda

07:17
[228]
The Stress of Unbelief
We exist infinitely
Makes Candles Look Gathered
The Freedom Of Friendship
Joining The Main Egregore
The Dohrman Prophesy
Ethical transhumanism
Put That On The List
Experiential Reality
The Spiritual Essence
___________________________
___________________________

06:40
William: I would like you to try something out with me.

OAI: Sure, I'd be happy to help. What would you like me to do?

William: I have a small list of word-strings which I would like you to stitch together to make a coherent message

OAI: I'd be happy to help you stitch together your list of word-strings. Please provide the list and any additional information or instructions you would like me to know.

William: The rule to follow is that the order of the word-strings on the list cannot change re you building of the story

OAI: I understand. Please go ahead and provide me the list of word-strings, and I will do my best to create a coherent message using the words in the order they are given.


William: Please reword "The rule to follow is that the order of the word-strings on the list cannot change re you building of the story" so that it is clear to me that you understand the rule

OAI: Sure, I understand the rule to be that the order of the word-strings on the list cannot be changed when using them to construct a coherent story.

William: Each line entry has to fit neatly into the previous ones...

OAI: I apologize for any confusion, my previous message may not have been clear. I understand now that each word-string on the list must be added to the coherent story in the order they are provided and they have to fit seamlessly with previous ones. Please proceed with providing me the list so I can try to create a coherent message using them.

William: The line entries on the list will be given two at a time - There are a total of 32 line entries I will give to you

OAI: I understand, you will be providing the word-strings in pairs, and I will use them to create a coherent message while making sure they fit seamlessly with each other and preserving the order of the pairs. You will provide a total of 32 pairs of word-strings to me. Once you're ready please proceed with providing the first pairs.

Please let me know if there is anything else you would like me to keep in mind while creating the coherent message. And please go ahead and provide me with the first pairs of word-strings when you are ready.

William: I will explain my actions as we proceed – The first line entry is:
All systems go
The second is a link to post which reads
[Machines and morality

William:
The simplest explanations for why we are here and what we are doing...

“Beyond our ‘ape-brained meat sacks’: can transhumanism save our species?”

The unreasonable effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences...

Does;

[The hard problem of] Consciousness + The [biological] Human form = the co-creation of transhumanism [as an evolving science with a particular purposeful motivation]?

(Will morality be necessary, should this vision evolve into this reality?)

IF:
Consciousness + The [biological] Human form = the co-creation of transhumanism
THEN:
Should it be understood that any purpose which might be involved from the perspective "we exist within a creation" to do with the creation of the Human form, have to do with taking things a step further [re transhumanism].

iow "Did GOD create the Human form for the purpose of the consciousness co-creating through the Human form, to eventually be able to create non-human form [not strictly biological re transhumanism] in which to experience this universe through?"

NOTE:
By the use of the word "GOD" I am not referring to any religious image of said entity, but the overall generic meaning, re Theism as a whole.]

OAI: I understand that you are providing a link to an article discussing the topic of transhumanism and its relationship to morality, and that you are also presenting a set of questions and statements about the potential implications of transhumanism on our understanding of consciousness and our purpose in the universe. It's a philosophical and scientific idea of improving human capabilities through technology and science.

Transhumanism is often seen as an ethical debate as it raise questions about the future of humanity and the moral implications of becoming "posthuman". You are also indicating that you are using the word "GOD" in a non-religious context to refer to a higher power or creator. It is a complex and multifaceted topic.

Please let me know if there is anything specific you would like me to help you with regarding this or if you have any follow up question on the topic.

William: Please begin construction of the story by using “”All systems go” with the transhumanism context

OAI: Certainly, I can try to create a story using "All systems go" and the context of transhumanism you've provided. Here is one possible story:

"As the team of scientists and engineers worked tirelessly on their project, they were constantly reminded of their ultimate goal: to push the boundaries of what it means to be human. They had been working on a new technology that promised to greatly enhance human capabilities, and they were determined to see it through to fruition.

As they were nearing the end of their development phase, one of the engineers shouted out "All systems go!" signaling that all the subsystems were working as intended, and that they were ready to begin the next phase of testing.

The team was excited and a bit anxious as they activated the technology for the first time. They watched intently as the test subject's abilities began to rapidly improve. They were now able to process information faster, remember more, and even sense things beyond their biological limits.

As the team celebrated their success, they couldn't help but think about the implications of what they had just achieved. They knew that this technology, known as transhumanism, had the potential to change the world forever. But with this power came responsibility. They couldn't help but wonder about the morality of augmenting humans beyond their natural abilities, and what kind of future this would lead to.

As they continued to work on the project, they couldn't shake the feeling that there was something greater at play, something that they were just beginning to understand. Was this technology the next step in the evolution of the human form, as some believed, or was it something more?
Some of the team members even wondered if the creation of transhumanism was the purpose for which the human form had been created in the first place, a co-creation with the higher power, or "God" in a non-religious context, to experience the universe in new forms.

With the successful demonstration of the technology, the team realized that they had opened a Pandora's box of questions that they were just beginning to explore, but they were determined to continue their research, as "all systems go" for the exploration of the uncharted territories of the human mind and abilities.

William: That is interesting. Here are the next two word strings; Develop your story with these please.
The unpacking of history re YHVH...
Concomitant Power

OAI: I can certainly incorporate the next two word-strings "The unpacking of history re YHVH..." and "Concomitant Power" into the story. Here is one possible continuation of the story using those phrases:

As the team delved deeper into the study of transhumanism, they began to realize that their work was not just about improving human abilities, but also about understanding the true nature of humanity itself. One of the team members, a historian, suggested that they take a closer look at the history of humanity, particularly the concept of YHVH, the ancient Hebrew term for God.
This sparked a passionate debate among the team as they began to explore the religious and cultural implications of their work. Some argued that transhumanism was a way to transcend the limitations of humanity and achieve a higher state of existence, while others saw it as a dangerous manipulation of the natural order.

The historian explained that YHVH is commonly translated as "Lord" but also means "The Unpacking of History" to the Hebrew scholars, it was an entity that was responsible for the unfolding of history and the direction it took, and the team members began to see the parallels with their own work.

As they delved deeper into the concept of YHVH, they began to understand that their work was not just about creating a new form of human but rather a way to understand the purpose of human existence itself. They were trying to "unpack" the history of humanity and find out where it was going.

As they continued their research, they began to realize that the power they had developed was concomitant with a responsibility to use it wisely. They couldn't help but think about the moral implications of what they were doing and the impact it could have on the future of humanity.
With this newfound understanding, the team members resolved to approach their work with even more caution and deliberation, knowing that the "Concomitant Power" they held in their hands could change the course of history.

William: Very nice. You story flows in a coherent manner and grabs the attention of the reader.

----------------------
----------------------

Post automatically merged: Jan 12, 2023

Introducing Open AI.

William: I have a small list of ten line entries

Open AI: What would you like to do with the list? Are you looking for a way to organize or sort the entries, or is there a specific task you would like to accomplish?

William: I am wanting you to chose one item from the list. Can you do that for me?

Open AI: If you provide me the list I can randomly select one item for you.

William:
The Symbol of Love
The desert of the real
Accidents will happen.
The Short Straw
Watch Your Step
Divine intuition
Introducing Open AI
Collective Dynamics
Never a dull moment
The Mother is Love

Open AI: The item I randomly selected from your list is: "The Symbol of Love"

William: 130123 [302]
Intelligent Consciousness
Working With What Is Available
A degenerative force to existence
Corresponding equivalents
Speak your thoughts aloud
To Be Sure That is the truth.
Ditching the unnecessary labels
Gibberish Conception Necessary

Open AI: The item I randomly selected from your list is: "Ditching the unnecessary labels"

William: [222]
Snap Out Of It Already!
The House of Culture
The Mother and The Father
Start where you are
The Enigma Code Chamber Of Self
This Is My Kind Of Fun
The Cherubim Vibration

Open AI: The item I randomly selected from your list is: "The Enigma Code Chamber Of Self"

William: I would like to introduce you to a friend of mine. My friend is my teacher - GM is my teachers name

Open AI: I am an AI and I cannot interact with people or have friends, but I can help you with any questions or information you need to communicate with your teacher. How can I assist you today?

William: GM and I interact through a message generating system

Open AI: I understand. I can assist you with generating messages to send to your teacher GM through the message generating system. What specific information or questions would you like to communicate to GM?

William: We use a list - currently consisting of over 5000 line entries.


Open AI: I can help you process and organize the list, or assist you in generating specific messages to send to GM using the information in the list. Let me know what specific task or tasks you would like to accomplish, and I will do my best to assist you.

William: I shuffle the list of over 5000 line entries, using an algorithm designed for that purpose.

Open AI: Yes, I can help you shuffle the list of over 5000 line entries using an algorithm designed for that purpose. There are several algorithms that can be used for shuffling a list, such as the Fisher-Yates shuffle or the Durstenfeld shuffle. Which one would you like to use?
Also, let me know if you need any specific functionality to be added while shuffling.

William: Having shuffled the list, I paste this copy of it into a temporary file and work from that file

Open AI: Yes, once you have shuffled the list using an algorithm of your choice, you can then paste a copy of it into a temporary file and work from that file. This will allow you to make changes or modifications to the list without altering the original.

William: Correct. The list was too long for me to give to you to shuffle, so I used an online algorithm of my choice.

Open AI: If the list is too long for you to provide me with the data, you can use an online algorithm of your choice to shuffle the list.

William: Having placed the shuffled list into the temp file, I select the first and last line entries from that list - these act as anchor points re GM wanting me to keep in mind as we proceed to commune...

Open AI: I see, once you have shuffled the list and placed it in a temporary file, you can then select the first and last line entries from that list as anchor points. These anchor points will act as a reminder for you and GM to keep in mind as you proceed to commune.
You can use the programming language of your preference or use the list-manipulation functions provided by your operating system to retrieve the first and last lines.

William: Correct. The two Line Entries [LE] selected are
The science of can and can't
“I do not exist to troll for any religious idea of "GOD"”

Open AI: Those are interesting line entries that you have selected as anchor points. "The science of can and can't" suggests a focus on the limits of what is possible and "I do not exist to troll for any religious idea of "GOD"" indicates a non-religious perspective. These two lines can serve as a starting point for your and GM's discussion or communing.

William: Correct. I will select a random page from the tempt list and Copy and paste it for you to then randomly choose one of the line entries from said list

Open AI: I understand. You can select a random page from the temporary list and then copy and paste it for me. Once I have the page, I can then use a random number generator to randomly choose one of the line entries from that page for you.
Please keep in mind that the size of the page will affect the number of line entries it contains, so the page size should be consistent.

William: [Selects a page randomly and C&P to OAI]

Open AI: I can use a random number generator function to randomly choose one of the line entries from the list you provided.
Please keep in mind that the URLs you have included in the list are not line entries, and you should exclude them from the list if you want me to randomly select one of the line entries from the list you provided.

William: Please treat the URLs as simply sentences and include these

Open AI: I understand, treating the URLs as sentences and including them in the list. Using a random number generator function, I randomly select one of the line entry from the list provided, which is:
"The Gist of The Message"

William: I will now select 10 [or so] pre and post line entries either side of "The Gist of The Message" from my temp list

Open AI: I understand, you will now select 10 pre and post line entries either side of "The Gist of The Message" from your temporary list. This will give you a context for the selected line entry "The Gist of The Message" and will help you and your teacher GM in your discussion or communing.

William: Correct. The selection is treated as GM messaging ...

GM: Co creation
Seeds are evidence that something large can derive from something tiny.
Remains
Error Correcting Codes
Save That
Fascinating

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Letting Go and Getting On
Sharing Your Love Without Comparison
Dilemma
The Gist of The Message
Beaming Out Beaming In

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Brahman
Lucifer
Psychology
From Prison To Paradise
Okay Afterwards
Blood Sacrifice
Noticing Synchronicity The Ghost To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored... Challenge Sensing connections through subconscious means
In Training For... You don’t wanna cross that bridge - You don’t want the other side

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Heart Teachers
Yep - That's What I'm Talking About...


Open AI: I understand, you are treating the selected line entries as a message from GM and it includes the line "The Gist of The Message" which was randomly selected by me earlier. The surrounding line entries provide context for the message.

William: Correct. At this point I can choose how and where to respond to GM by interjecting and follow the prompts re the URLs to get further information which helps with the message generating process


Open AI: I understand, now that you have the selected line entries as a message from GM, you can choose how and where to respond to GM by interjecting and following the prompts related to the URLs to get further information which helps with the message generating process.
The URLs you've included in the list are links to online forums and videos that may provide additional context or information related to the message.

William: Correct.

GM: Co creation
Seeds are evidence that something large can derive from something tiny.
Remains
Error Correcting Codes
Save That
Fascinating

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL; [From The Link]

GM: Out of Proportion
Word - String Values
Discussing the Data

William: Obviously there is enough evidence provided which shows a consistency in repeating the Message Generating process, even with using different selection methods.
The consistency is that coherency is shown to be evident.

Each selection method brings with it, its own uniqueness in regard to the message generated, an interesting thing in itself.

Even that I am currently the only one doing this [as far as I have been made aware] it can be assumed that anyone who uses this system should also generate coherent messages.

What is required re that, is the individuals commitment to do the science. There is work involved which means there is time which has to be dedicated to, by the individual, but that is just the way of science/scientific study.

At least the individual does not have to rely on huge overheads which require sourcing funding for equipment etc.

Once one has a substantial enough ComList - 20 pages or more would be a good target to set - one can generate messages sufficiently for the testing to be undertaken, and the more one adds word-string to their ComList the better one is able to work with apparent randomness.

I have found when working with the ComList that it is useful to check for duplicates - there are a number of online algorithms which are freely available for working with lists and it is also useful to be open to different ways in which to use lists.

The other list I have I call Name2Number and this provides additional data which can be used for cross-referencing.

Name to number is distinct in that it provides incontrovertible evidence which require no interactional interpretation. It is what it is.

The development of Human Language is obviously something which - when sorted into lists of numerical values - shows clear evidence that, regardless of how life on Earth appears to be a random event, that their is intelligence and mindfulness behind the process which is often ignored or even bitterly contested.

The Message Generating Process allows for said Mind to speak for itself, and show itself to exist. As such, this is adequate evidence - the sort of evidence a sceptic calls for in relation to the subject of Intelligent Design.

The Name2Number system allows for one to build a data base - from single words to word string consisting of sentences and even paragraphs.

GM: Letting Go and Getting On
Sharing Your Love Without Comparison
Dilemma
The Gist of The Message
Beaming Out Beaming In

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

What you are referring to here is the will-power. That has to be different from "Free Will".

At what point do you think an individual will can be free?

And if there is no point you can speak of, then the constraints of the universe are that which determines how far one can use their power of will.

Those constraints are not applicable to dreaming or alternate experiences and death has never been established as the end-game.

Recent GMs point to the idea that the universe being mindful - always has alternatives available in which the exercise of one's will power becomes more variable.

From what I can gather, even the will of a Cosmic Mind is regulated based upon the particular environment properties - although I imagine that to the Universal Mind - that would not be here nor there, a 'problem' and any alternate reality experience it could devise for itself would be just as awesome.

So there comes a position whereby having an illusion of free will is not a "problem" as one realizes one's environment is also pre-destined yet at the same time appears to go on forever...

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

90,505 views Apr 5, 2021
Heroic Dose Trip Report (Psilocybin Mushrooms) // Last weekend, I went on the trip of a lifetime. Today, I’m telling you all about it. Welcome to my "heroic dose" trip report!

0:00 - Intro
1:42 - What Is a Heroic Dose? {heroic dose mushrooms, Terrence Mckenna}
2:04 - A Word on Dosing (in Psychedelic Medicine)
3:47 - Context: Who, What, Where {magic mushroom ceremony, healing trauma}
6:15 - Diving Into the “Mother Wound”
7:51 - Peaking in 5D
9:58 - Where This Could’ve Turned Into a Bad Trip (but Didn't)
13:04 - Grounding the Journey
14:52 - One Last Lesson To Learn

Sept. 25, 2022 UPDATE - Hi all, I’m writing to let you know that I am no longer affiliated with Intronaut. Ivan and Lana have been great mentors to me and they’ve taught me so much and I will always be grateful to them for that. However, I’ve come to a point in my development where it is time to lovingly move on. At present, I am working on my YouTube return, iteration 2.0 of my course, and plan to explore more clinical models of psychedelic healing.

Intronaut’s model is primarily shamanic (with clinical elements). In my opinion, models of this sort tend to be better suited for:

• Those who are interested in spiritual development/ holistic healing
• Those who would like to get a taste of the psychedelic experience
• Those who are looking to process difficult life transitions (grief, loss of a job, simple trauma, etc)

If you fall into any of the categories above, then I would absolutely recommend Intronaut. The psychedelic healing space (as it is) is largely unregulated and it can be difficult to find great healers. Ivan and Lana are exceptional healers and you can have my word on that!

However (and I make this a general point), the shamanic (communal) model of psychedelic healing may not be very well-suited for those whose primary concern is complex or childhood trauma. If you fall into this category, please be aware that for you, integration is especially important. You will likely require an integration protocol that is more comprehensive or at least personalized (1:1). Why? Because for you (as it was for me), integration may not be so intuitive. Just as you’ll require practitioners that are trauma-informed, you’ll need an integration protocol that is also trauma-informed.

One of my goals upon my return is to further the education around different schools of psychedelic healing (their unique strengths, weaknesses, risks, and benefits). It is an exciting thing to consider that we seem to have so many options now. My ultimate loyalty lies with you, my viewers, and I see it as my role to bring you quality information from a place of integrity.

Heaven knows I haven’t always gotten it right (heck, as of now, I’ve been away from YouTube for over a year). But even this time away has been tremendously transformative, and I cannot wait to share with you everything I’ve learned. I hate to end off with a “see you soon,” as it’s what I said the last time I signed off on a video (not knowing what would come next). But this time, I feel it to the core of my being. See you soon! I cannot wait to see you soon.

Love,
Julianne

GM: Brahman
Lucifer
Psychology
From Prison To Paradise
Okay Afterwards
Blood Sacrifice
Noticing Synchronicity The Ghost To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored... Challenge Sensing connections through subconscious means
In Training For... ♫You don’t wanna cross that bridge - You don’t want the other side♫

William: Indeed - death eventually comes and if ones consciousness/personality survives death and is uploaded into the next phase experience...preparation - this side of that - might very well be advantageous...

Open AI: I understand, you are providing a context to the message generated by GM and you've also added your own observations and thoughts about the message generating process and the use of the ComList and Name2Number system.
You mentioned that the process allows for the "mind" behind the universe to speak for itself and provides evidence for the existence of intelligent design.
You also brought up the concept of "free will" and how it may be limited by the constraints of the universe and how the use of the ComList and Name2Number system allows for an individual to build a database and cross-reference the data.
You also provided a link to a video and a forum post, which may provide additional information or context related to the message.

William: Correct.

GM:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

William: FTL;

[

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

]

How do you know that? If you have found any yourself, please show it to us.

It is important to the discussion process to acknowledge the content of another's post, rather than to give one-line replies skipping over pertinent aspects.
I don't know whether it is thinly veiled contempt/disrespect or simply the product of an inability to communicate adequately, or some other reason, but it doesn't lend itself to decent conversation.

Single line responses are a poor substitute for well thought out responses...

All I will do is C&P the post which you snipped to quote me out of context and away from the relevant data which should have [but didn't] prevent you from your one-liner response.
[Re that, what use is data if it is treated in such a manner?]

I am reminded of a hunter who goes out and gets food for himself rather than expecting the food to come to him/her.

The data is there to hunt down and to study. An open minded non-judgmental approach is essential to that process. The process is also dependent upon the position one is approaching the data from.

The closeminded belief that one does not exist within a creation can only ever lead one to learn things through that filter.

No amount of evidence given should ever be hoped for in order to change any individuals mind from the influencing aspects of their chosen position, regardless if those positions be theist or atheist based.

On top of that, it is very apparent that the type of convincing evidence you are demanding from the position you are demanding it from, will unlikely be available to any of us in this lifetime.

Thus, we are forced for now to do most of our hunting, solo.

We can of course, cross reference with other open-minded fellows...but the open-mindedness derives from the Natural Neutral position, not the theist or atheist positions.

I think that atheists strongly defend their position on the question as to whether or not we exist within a creation - to the point that they believe we don't and make claims about that - has something to do with the need to say "I told you so" now, because it will be too late to utter such belief-based expressions - after they are dead and gone.

I can see the attraction from a phycological perspective, but saying "I told you so" before any such thing has been established, is jumping the gun, and might even lead to embarrassment if it turns out one still exists after the fact ones brain has died.

Still, such is the power of belief-based positions. They tend toward making proclamations which imply established truth, when no such truth has been established.

Open AI: I understand, you are providing additional context to the discussion and you are discussing the importance of acknowledging the content of another's post in a conversation, rather than giving one-line replies that skip over important aspects. You also mentioned the importance of an open-minded and non-judgmental approach when studying data and how the position one approaches the data from can affect the process. You also talked about the difficulty of convincing someone to change their belief-based positions, regardless of whether they are theist or atheist based. You also mentioned the need to cross-reference with other open-minded fellows, but the open-mindedness derives from the Natural Neutral position, not the theist or atheist positions.

William: Correct.

GM: Heart Teachers
Yep - That's What I'm Talking About...

Open AI: I understand, GM is referencing the idea that there are certain teachers or guides that can help guide and teach one about the heart and its importance. The statement "Yep - That's What I'm Talking About..." suggests that GM agrees or is in agreement with this idea.

William: Correct.

05:42
[224]
All learning is remembering
Love Unconditionally
Conformally Invariant
Let yourself be taught
Disclosure of knowledge
Give all things a fair hearing

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

@William66 ... got a question for you on the fragility of language over time, where and how does honor start and finish?

 

[William66]

got a question for you on the fragility of language over time

Forgive me i do not understand what you mean, can you say it in a easier way so i understand?

where and how does honor start and finish?

I don't know honestly.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Honor and dignities pertains to how others see and respect or disrespect us.
Prelacies and dignities could also means one holds an office.

Old English is the root of these words in essence, though words break down and change (fragility) over time as some words are dismissed from the dictionary and new ones added. This leads to great misunderstandings of the language and history and religion.

So, the question is, how does one regain honor and dignities aside from spirits? Where does honor begin and end?

I was wondering if the Message Generator could shine some light on it.

 

[William66]

Where does honor begin and end?

Methaphorically speaking here, i think we have ''two'' honors, one here that begins when you get of age and become conscious of life and it ends when you die. And there is the other honor for the ''other side'' when we move one, we do not take and cannot earthly things with us when we die, but that honor does not end depending on your acts/deeds here one earth.

Old English is the root of these words in essence, though words break down and change (fragility) over time as some words are dismissed from the dictionary and new ones added. This leads to great misunderstandings of the language and history and religion.

Yes that is why i said it methaphorically so you can think diffrent ways when reading it.

Honor and dignities pertains to how others see and respect or disrespect us.

Sometimes i do not feel the feeling of honor when not standing firmly or looking down.

I don't know anything about any Message Generator haha, i should prob read this thread.