Your thoughts on altered states of consciousness being 'mandatory'?

[szamatlii]

I don't think you have to, but I only have experience with rituals while slightly impaired. I like it. Helps me get into a trance, especially with the right background music.

 

[Morell]

Good background music helps a lot.

 

[Amur]

I don't know that it's mandatory, but some folks find it useful. It's not called "spirits' by accident. Ol' Sam Houston in Texas used to call his whiskey-sipping "talking to my ancestors." Or so I have been told.

Yeah well not perhaps mandatory you are right. But it does quicken the process inside, instead of going the natural route

 

[Xenophon]

Yeah well not perhaps mandatory you are right. But it does quicken the process inside, instead of going the natural route

Hunter S. Trismegistus, if I may.

 

[Amur]

Hunter S. Trismegistus, if I may.

Who was that? Only know of Hermes Trismegistus and Hunter S. Thompson I found by googling.

Post automatically merged: Aug 14, 2024

On another note psychedelics like LSD and shrooms are pretty good for reaching Divine states. Nothing like alcohol which makes you descend. But these can be very uplifting and life enhancing experiences if taken in the right set&setting which is the most important thing before taking a psychedelic.

 

[Xenophon]

Who was that? Only know of Hermes Trismegistus and Hunter S. Thompson I found by googling.

Post automatically merged: Aug 14, 2024

On another note psychedelics like LSD and shrooms are pretty good for reaching Divine states. Nothing like alcohol which makes you descend. But these can be very uplifting and life enhancing experiences if taken in the right set&setting which is the most important thing before taking a psychedelic.

My remark was a what-if. What if Thompson had tried magick; what if Hermes has turned to gonzo grimoire-writing?

 

[Amur]

My remark was a what-if. What if Thompson had tried magick; what if Hermes has turned to gonzo grimoire-writing?

Ahh yeah now I got you Good remark.

Post automatically merged: Aug 14, 2024

I believe for shamans it's mandatory really to do alcohol in times to get into the 'states' where you can just interract in "Truth" with spirits, from this you feel a bad feeling if you have lied and then you puke or then it's a pure feeling meaning you survived the test. Mandatory in the sense that the spirits trust you if you do these alcohol ceremonies but if you don't the spirits distrust you.

 

[GodWhom]

@Al-Zalaam message me when/if you come back

 

[David Wilson-Steer]

I was wondering about something that seems to be the consensus amongst my local peers: one must be in an altered state of mind/gnostic state to perform any magickal operation.
For me, it is not something that's obligatory, but sorta helps me keep my mind censor in check, so that I don't think about how ridiculous I look praying over oils and herbs or dressed in ceremonial garb addressing the spirits.
I'd love to read y'alls input and, if possible, learning a bit of your experience

The fact is, you're ALWAYS in a state of consciousness. You're awake or asleep or happy or sad, excited or in love. Different things and experiences like food, drugs, the weather will alter your state of consciousness. So yes, it is mandatory but you're in it all the time. Maybe changing your state of consciousness is what's important & I know that feeling of ridiculousness praying over oils and herbs or wearing robes as you describe; even when reciting a ritual. But now, I simply tell myself that whatever I'm doing, especially if it involves words, is creating a magical effect and the more I become one with the words and actions, the better the effect I'm creating. If that makes sense. I do this by imagining I'm performing in a play or acting in a film. For me, it works well, especially if someone else is doing the ritual with me. The first time I performed the Bornless Ritual with a group someone told me after that I suddenly started sounding like Crowley & then looked like him! They thought I'd been possessed. I became aware that I was sounding like him too but I didn't feel I was possessed.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Square of Venus Attraction Spell: A Bottle of Honey and A Piece of Cardboard
SUBTOPIC: Magic of Numbers
⁜→ et al,

(OPENING)

The first describes consciousness as “the phenomena that humans report experiencing including mental contents ranging from sensory to somatic perception to mental images, reportable ideas, inner speech, intentions to act, recalled memories, semantics, dreams, hallucinations, emotional feelings, ‘fringe’ feelings (e.g., a sense of knowing), and aspects of cognitive and motor control.”

The second part of the definition speaks of “any of various subjective states of awareness in which conscious contents can be reported,” giving examples of “altered states” such as sleeping and the “global access function” of consciousness, which presents an endless variety of focal contents to executive control and decision-making.
SOURCE:

• What is consciousness?: (Three sages look behind the veil) Copyright 2016 © by Ervin Laszlo, Jean Houston, and Larry Dossey; -- First Edition, published by SelectBooks, Inc., New York, New York.

The fact is, you're ALWAYS in a state of consciousness.

(COMMENT)

I will agree to the extent that this assumption sounds reasonable, it is by no means fact. To some measure, brainwave activity is detectable. Still, the current state of affairs does not permit the recording of thoughts and replay of the patterns to replicate the same mental imagery or interpretation. The center of "consciousness" is unknown and the processes that generate "(self) awareness" are still unavailable; although there are many "theories." To that point, it is still beyond science ("metaphysics").

Maybe changing your state of consciousness is what's important

(COMMENT)

"Consciousness" is closely associated with some form of awareness. But the scope, nature, and detail of the awareness are not the same for each of the types, kinds, and characteristics of the minds (assumption here) that become aware.

creating a magical effect

(AT ISSUE)

This is a question that philosophers and scientists distinguish between → 1) What is "real?" → 2) What is outside the laws of the universe? Can science completely rule out the existence of "Magic?"

[Source Notes]
__________________
• Handbook of Metaphysics, by Michael Loux and Dean Zimmerman, Copywriter © Oxford University Press Inc., New York (2003)
• Science in Metaphysics - Exploring the Metaphysics of Properties and Laws, © publishes by Palgrave & Macmillan, New York, NY, 2017
• Future Metaphysics by Armen Avanessian Copyright © Armen Avanessian 2020 Polity Press 101 Station Landing Suite 300 Medford, MA 02155, USA
• What is consciousness?: (Three sages look behind the veil) Copyright 2016 © by Ervin Laszlo, Jean Houston, and Larry Dossey; -- First Edition, published by SelectBooks, Inc., New York, New York.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Robert Ramsay]

I believe that, yes, you need to be able to change your consciousness state to do magic. You don't need drugs, and it doesn't even have to be for very long. Psi/magical acts occur when your normal state of waking consciousness is pushed out of the way, which would make it altered by definition

 

[GodWhom]

@Al-Zalaam it wont let me message youuu anymore, idk why, or reply. Did you change ur settings?

 

[HoldAll]

@Al-Zalaam it wont let me message youuu anymore, idk why, or reply. Did you change ur settings?

You need 20 posts to send a DM.

Messages not working for me

Hi, sorry to bother but I found that I was unable to send another message in a conversation, not sure why.

wizardforums.com

 

[GodWhom]

Whyy haha I guess its a relatively new rule

Post automatically merged: Mar 17, 2025

Does that mean just 20 comments on posts?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Your thoughts on altered states of consciousness being 'mandatory'?
SUBTOPIC: Independent Quality (An Alternative View)
⁜→ Robert Ramsay, et al,

Nearly all evolutionary adaptations have some consequence (assumption), and our brain is central to the human biochemical and electrical nervous system. But, there is no agreement as to when and where consciousness arose. There is the theory put forth by Sir Roger Penrose and Dr Struart Hameroff, known as the quantum theory of consciousness [AKA: 'Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch OR)]. It involves the microtubule components of the brain as Biomolecular Computational Devices. However, it does not have a viable impact on the nature of paranormal or psychic phenomena and [Extra sensory Perception (ESP), Psychokinesis (PK)]. It is a question of empirical Evidence and the application of the Scientific Method.

Article in

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by Ralph Lewis, MD​

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Do Psi Phenomena Exist? Debating the Nature of Consciousness​

Part 1 of 2: Mainstream scientific materialism versus parapsychology.​

Posted May 19, 2020 |

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I believe that, yes, you need to be able to change your consciousness state to do magic. You don't need drugs, and it doesn't even have to be for very long. Psi/magical acts occur when your normal state of waking consciousness is pushed out of the way, which would make it altered by definition

(COMMENT)

Consciousness, Awareness, and the Development of Perceptions are descriptions of faculties one human recognizes in another. But there is no direct connection between these faculties and any measure of paranormal or psychic abilities.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[GodWhom]

Thanks for making me able to message 🫶🫱‍🫲

 

[bartyblack]

All the steps for traditional magick are meant to get you into an altered state. Agrippa says as much in his Three Books, particularly in Book Three. That said, I think chemical alterations to the functioning of the mind must be avoided. In the Liber Juratus there is a reference to toasting the spirits with a glass of wine after they arrive, so I think that is fine in its context, but doing shrooms or getting high otherwise before ritual work is definitely to be discouraged.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Consciousness, Awareness, and the Development of Perceptions are descriptions of faculties one human recognizes in another. But there is no direct connection between these faculties and any measure of paranormal or psychic abilities.

I beg to differ, as according to my research, I consider magickal/psi abilities to be an edge condition of normal human consciousness.

Put simply, the narrative each of us experiences is the result of our choices. Some of those choices are expressed purely mentally, but we can still end up experiencing their consequences physically, in what looks to us like the world has changed.

Post automatically merged: Mar 18, 2025

All the steps for traditional magick are meant to get you into an altered state. Agrippa says as much in his Three Books, particularly in Book Three. That said, I think chemical alterations to the functioning of the mind must be avoided. In the Liber Juratus there is a reference to toasting the spirits with a glass of wine after they arrive, so I think that is fine in its context, but doing shrooms or getting high otherwise before ritual work is definitely to be discouraged.

The trick is to be able to alter your state of consciousness at will.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Your thoughts on altered states of consciousness being 'mandatory'?
SUBTOPIC: Research and the Evidence
⁜→ Robert Ramsay, et al,

(OPENING)

The

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’s definition of “consciousness” is twofold.

The first describes consciousness as “the phenomena that humans report experiencing including mental contents ranging from sensory to somatic perception to mental images, reportable ideas, inner speech, intentions to act, recalled memories, semantics, dreams, hallucinations, emotional feelings, ‘fringe’ feelings (e.g., a sense of knowing), and aspects of cognitive and motor control.”​

​

The second part of the definition speaks of “any of various subjective states of awareness in which conscious contents can be reported,” giving examples of “altered states” such as sleeping, as well as the “global access function” of consciousness, presenting an endless variety of focal contents to executive control and decision making.​

It is vitally important that in discussions of "Consciousness" and the associated themes and concepts of the "Paranormal" (including the experiences documented as the unusual) → the track maintains an overwatch through the "

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" be present at every step. This is essential when discussing "

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" of some paranormal event or activity - in which "

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" is paramount.

Is there a paradox? "Science is concerned with discovering what is real and true (the nature of the reality). However, social reality is grounded on consensus - a consensus of opinions and studies shown to be driven by what some segments want to believe - as opposed to the

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.

I beg to differ, as according to my research, I consider magickal/psi abilities to be an edge condition of normal human consciousness.

(COMMENT)

The Challenge: Think about it! Can you define (a universally accepted position) the "condition of normal human consciousness?" The first paradox becomes the question of whether or not Person "A"s "normal" consciousness is the same as Person "B"s. Person "A"s experiences (of a high-functioning autism spectrum disorder - formerly known as Asperger's) may be altogether different than the experiences of Person "B"s which shape the associated knowledge, skills, and abilities.

The trick is to be able to alter your state of consciousness at will.

(COMMENT)

The undefined characteristics of "consciousness" can be altered in any number of ways. But altering "consciousness" does not necessarily lead to anything other than a misrepresentation of reality.

a state of psychological functioning that is significantly different from that experienced in ordinary states of consciousness. Reports of the experience of ASCs are highly subjective, but the phenomenon is susceptible to some degree of empirical study. It tends to be characterized by altered levels of self-awareness, affect, reality testing, orientation to time and place, wakefulness, responsiveness to external stimuli, or memorability, or by a sense of ecstasy, boundlessness, or unity with the universe.
SOURCE: APA Dictionary of Psychology, Editor in Chief Gary R VVandenBos, PhD, Copyright © 2015 by the American Psychological Association, Published @ 750 First Street, NE, Washington, DC 20002

___________________

Cambridge Handbook of Cognitive Science / edited by Keith Frankish and William M. Ramsey © Cambridge University Press 2012 Published in the United States of America by Cambridge University Press, New York

Parapsychology - Science of Unusual Experience by Ron Roberts and David Groome © 2001 Distributed in the USA by Oxford University Press Inc., 198 Madison Avenue, New York, NY 10016

Synesthesia •

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Psychology Today, Posted March 29, 2018 by

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,

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The Meaning of Magic

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Psychology Today, Updated June 26, 2024 by

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APA Dictionary of Psychology, Editor in Chief Gary R VVandenBos, PhD, Copyright © 2015 by the American Psychological Association, Published @ 750 First Street, NE, Washington, DC 20002

magic n. 1. a system of practices in which humans attempt to manipulate natural or supernatural forces through such means as rituals, incantations, and spells. Magic had an important social role in many prescientific societies, where its practitioners often held great power and authority. In the modern world, magical belief has survived most obviously as an underground esoteric tradition (see occult) but also in many popular superstitions and New Age practices. Magical rituals can be said to differ from religious rituals in that they involve a direct attempt to control certain physical facts (e.g., the weather), as opposed to a supplication to a higher power or powers. 2. in some individuals with obsessive-compulsive disorder, attempts to allay anxiety by invoking certain numbers or performing certain rituals. See also magical thinking.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Is there a paradox? "Science is concerned with discovering what is real and true (the nature of the reality). However, social reality is grounded on consensus - a consensus of opinions and studies shown to be driven by what some segments want to believe - as opposed to the

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.

I believe the consensus to be a consequence of the 'true nature of reality'; i.e. there is a physical reason why we all mostly agree with each other about what we observe. So not opposed to the nature of reality at all.
Also, to quote Richard Feynman, "The 'paradox' is only a conflict between reality and your feeling of what reality 'ought to be'.”

(COMMENT)

The Challenge: Think about it! Can you define (a universally accepted position) the "condition of normal human consciousness?" The first paradox becomes the question of whether or not Person "A"s "normal" consciousness is the same as Person "B"s. Person "A"s experiences (of a high-functioning autism spectrum disorder - formerly known as Asperger's) may be altogether different than the experiences of Person "B"s which shape the associated knowledge, skills, and abilities.

I'm taking the lowest level of definition here; there is a thing that it is like to be a person, that person is aware of themselves and their surroundings, and the person is able to model possible futures in their awareness. I realise that one can cavil on the ninth part of a hair about the nature of consciousness, but assuming that we agree about humans being incredibly complex arrangements of atoms and nothing more, I consider the above to be a reasonable working definition.

(COMMENT)

The undefined characteristics of "consciousness" can be altered in any number of ways. But altering "consciousness" does not necessarily lead to anything other than a misrepresentation of reality.

OK, I was not specific enough; I meant altering your consciousness in such a way as to make magic possible. Yes, random alterations of consciousness might well not be helpful