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The most interesting take on it I've ever seen was one I encountered many years ago. The premise was that Jesus wasn't a person but a "movement," and that there were many "Jesus schools" in the region hoping to groom the "Master."
I don't have the answer to that. However, I just read an excellent horror novel that has a remarkably intelligent proposition contained within. It is not Christian fiction and it is not preachy whatsoever. Imaginary Friend by Stephen Chbosky (author of The Perks of Being a Wallflower). PDF upon request.
Jesus to me is the Crucified God, the Universal Christ, the Bread and Wine I eat and drink during the Holy Mass. Yet I only believe this by faith that's not a 100% certain and that's ok.
My favourite theory is that jesus was a Roman psyop to pacify the jews. They wanted a messiah to crush Rome and establish their kingdom, so Rome gave them a story about a messiah that told them they had it all wrong, "the kingdom of heaven is within you", and they needed to turn the other cheek and pay their taxes, etc. Who knows, but it would be hilarious if that was the case.
For what its worth, my pendulum says jesus is 100% created by, and dependent on, human attention. He came into existence 1,950 years ago, and was never an incarnate human. Which is a very similar answer to what I get for other gods.
If i ever successfully create magick than can permanently cut an egregore off from human attention, I guess we'll find out. Because jesus won't be around for long after that.
You do realize most historians reject that psyop theory propagated by Atwill since there's is lack of evidence to prove that. I'm also going to point out that some of the examples you give are best understood in the cultural context of the Ancient Near East and not in our own eyes. For example, turning the other cheek was to be a tactic to prevent oppressors from further oppression as explained in this article.
The most interesting take on it I've ever seen was one I encountered many years ago. The premise was that Jesus wasn't a person but a "movement," and that there were many "Jesus schools" in the region hoping to groom the "Master."
I've sometimes thought of it as a Robin Hood story where the words and deeds of many people were attributed to one person. I hope some history emerges to clarify this time period, but I won't hold my breathe.
It's likely Jesus never existed and was just a figure to really emphasize a story in one of the, if not the most popular fictional writings of all time.
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Jesus becomes the epitome of triumph, of sacrifice, of a vessel of god, or someone to contains God's likeness.. He becomes the conduit between God and man, he is the epitome of the higher consciousness or "Christ consciousness"..
But the fact that no article of his clothing or no relics he owned are kept anywhere are very odd.. considering they even have stuff from Prophet Muhammad, sandals he wore, pieces of his hair, and others.
Prophet Muhammad might be one of the only religious figures that we not only have lots of testimonials of his life and his day to day behaviors, lifestyles, how he was with his youngest wife, (story of them having foot races to see whos faster, her winning,then later when she got more fat, him winning and teasing her, etc).. stories of how he was with friends or people who were known to be unattractive (story of Julaybeeb, ) and treated less by others, and how he showed them even more care, boosted them up.. There are stories of how he ate, what he liked to eat, how he dressed, how he washed up (which muslims follow today), etc..
The sad reality is, the ways of Jesus ar enot even followe dby Christians.. Jesus abstained from swine and drink, grew his beard, fasted, prayed with his face on the ground-- The Christians dont follow any of this.. it almost seems blasphemous.. But the Muslims, they follow these things and the ways of Muhammad very closely..
Why is any of this important? From a theological perspective, Christianity is not a strong enough discipline and holds little regard when it was revised and re-written by a European king who basically just had his scribed write whatever he wanted.. and this is the religion the majorit of the world believes in...
From what I can tell, he was just another in a long lineage of wise sages throughout the times. I believe he may have said he was the "son of god" metaphorically. I remember a line where he said "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do". I believe he was referring to Apotheosis. Which means he likely meant we are all sons and daughters of God. Because if Apotheosis was an option, then that must point to the fact we all have a divine spark within us, and that no one person gets a unique divine position to the other. Meaning, we could reach levels just as divine as Jesus.
Sages throughout the times have been known for speaking in confusing and obscure metaphors, and I believe Jesus was no exception, just that he may be the most widely misinterpreted.
The two are often conflated to the detriment of the other.
I'm more of the Christ = Logos and Jesus is a magician who embodied the Logos so fully he became an Ancestor (which is sort of like a pattern / demigod across all space-time reality, rather than ghostly shade or Proclian henead. )
Interestingly the English Qaballa number cypher of the Book of the Law, for those who accept Liber AL, rather agrees with pagan-to-Orthodox convert Dr. Martin Shaw has suggested that "Jesus is the Last Greek God." Take it as you will.
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From The Magickal Language of the Book of the Law
by Cath Thompson
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The numbers are the primary idea rather than the names or concepts that they resonate.
JESUS=68.
In the English Qaballistic system 6=LAW and 8=0 or infinity. This is based on Liber AL Ch.I v.46, “Nothing is a secret key of this law...I call it eight...” and that the symbol for infinity is an 8 on its side. Therefore we may say that 68 is Law expressed to Infinity or Infinite Law, and Jesus is a resonance or expression of this Law.
JESUS = 68 = LIFE, CHANGE. It is certainly true that the infinite law is LIFE and CHANGE. Everything that lives, changes; this is not merely a statement of physical evolution, for life is not necessarily bound into form. The infinite law of life is change; everything lives, and nothing that lives remains the same. The symbol of JESUS illustrates to the Initiate how life and change proceed through time. In the change from one form of energy to the next it is necessary that some of the original energy is given up. Jesus led a life of sacrifice, simply illustrating that to move forward in time something must be sacrificed.
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Finally, the context of a word sheds light on the meaning of that word. The only place that Jesus is mentioned in Liber AL is in Ch. III v.51, “I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.” Note that the present tense of the word ‘HANGS’ means that he still hangs on the cross. This is quite precise, Jesus hangs on the cross throughout all eternity, as Spirit is forever crucified upon the Cross of Matter.
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The speaker is identified with Horus of the Hawk’s head, and since the word PECK has the same value as POWER the phrase can be read “I power (at) the eyes of Jesus,” meaning that Horus is a factor of resistance against the eyes of Jesus. Of course at the same time this is the very impediment that causes the phenomenon of those eyes to exist, for it is only by resistance (what Dion Fortune described as “the thrusting block of the engine”), that any phenomenon can occur, and without it all energy will just pass on through until it does find something to react against.
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Finally let us find out what separates Man from Christ, which is the way in which Man should aspire to Christ. To do this we simply subtract the one from the other, 81 – 36 = 45 = NOT. In accordance with mystical tradition, the system of the English Qaballa demands that the Aspirant depolarises himself, becoming consciously negative (NOT) to the power called the Divine Bridegroom.
45 is also the value of HORUS. Man must experience and become Horus before he can be of Christ. HORUS = 45 = I AM. Man must develop for himself a discreet identity peculiar to himself to become Christ. He must be able to say ‘I am unchangeable and thus a God’. The way he does this is to follow all the ways of Love through Christ: “there is no bond that can unite the divided but love,” (Liber AL Ch.I v.41).
The power of Jesus in the English Qaballistic system is maternal and preserving, and although he himself is male he personifies and demonstrates all the feminine values, for the body from which he issues is female. It is worth remarking that the Word of Christ , 81 + 34 = 115 = MERCURY, resumes the male-female symbolism. It is his female unconscious that drives the conscious male just as it is Venus or the Holy Ghost that is the power behind Christ.
Gee Whiz! So many great thoughts, opinions, and viewpoints in this thread, and from people much more learned and accomplished than myself. (Big Sigh).
I try to keep it as simple as possible. I have come to realize that I have a human body and a human consciousness. I have to take care of both. Often the question is which of these “bodies” do I prioritize?
No one (ok I am probably being a little generous here but let’s hope). No one wants to be so greedy that they steal, so lustful that they rape, or so angry that they kill. Yet we all like nice things, enjoy sex, and get mad.
The trick for me is how to take care of my physical needs and desires without adding shame, guilt, and regret to my consciousness. Because, at least in my case, the psychic scars that I allow into my consciousness last much longer than the temporary enjoyment of the “things” I get from bad behavior.
How does this relate to the topic? No matter how much a spiritual story has been twisted over the years, I find the seeds of how to navigate life without hurting myself and others contained therein. Honestly, I don’t understand a lot of it. I tend to skip over those parts. I find the seeds that will grow in my garden. Those few seeds keep me plenty busy.
