[Help] Creation of a contract according to Jake Stratton-Kent Grimorium Verum

[cormundum]

Pacts are a silly idea. I've never used them. What use is offering a spirit a cigar or whisky or money? Do the Abramelin, you will then have power over all spirits through your HGA. I have had spirits refuse a request but then after a very long argument we come to an agreement that is fine with me; no contracts, no offerings, no threats to destroy the entity, simply a reminder to the spirit that as I am an Adept they are obliged to help me.

You've got the right idea. I work in the exact same way after having done Abramelin.

 

[MorganBlack]

David Wilson-Steer, Corundum, this is getting very off-topic, and the HGA has nothing to do with the Verum system. I am not unsympathetic to what you're saying, but please make another thread.

That said, I'd love my HGA and talk with her every day. As the resident god of my universe, I don't need demons for magic and can make miracles myself. I do Goetia because I enjoy it, and I like the daimons of the Underworld.

The Underworld Initiation is greatly misunderstood, but while more dangerous, the benefits and adventure are also tremendous. I should probably write more about it one day.

The HGA is an Overworld Initiation method, but I challenge you to ask yourself what "becoming divine" looks like in other cultures that are not specifically Abrahamic in mythic structure. For instance, the Logos can "be" both Christ and Hermes as reason and meaning itself enters the biosphere. Claiming all the people who are not using your highly specific mythic framework and methodology are "doing demons wrong" is not helpful.

I am just a voice on the internet, and you have no reason to believe me, but I have lived a very full life in my half century - and the underworld daimons have been a huge assist with rising to the highest ranks as director level at very famous and/or creative companies in the video game, film and tech industries. Because I wanted to. Those are what i wanteds to do with my life at that time. So I did. The demons were a big help here. You attack JSK, asking what "did demons do for him," but maybe they did exactly what he wanted them to do? His life is not my life. I strongly suggest you cannot judge the life expression of another person's soul and their own HGA or divine spark.

But you know this, I'm sure, having achieved Knowledge and Conversation of your Holy Guardian Angel, and all.

 

[SeekerPS]

An example of a contract with a spirit found in the Goetia of Dr rudd

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[William66]

So, after reading JSK Grimorium Verum, he outlines the importance of the contract, adorned with the sigils of the spirits one desires to make contract with. On the blue cover grimoires, i have only seen one mention of a contract in the grand grimoire or red dragon (Or spanish San Cipriano) in the conjuration of Lucifugo Rofocale



Then, supposedly, the spirit turns it down, but then you insist and he will ask for something completly different

Althoug romantic, i guess a contract so vague and open would not be advisible to any practitioner. has anyone worked with written contracts? what clauses do you use?

If for example, i would want to have money or find treasures, as is the case in the GG, wouldn't it be better to specify to at least not hurt you and your loved ones?

This is Goetia but not so much off topic

I do work the Goetia, last evocation was 2021 summer, it was verbal contract, i asked for four favours, i did have to do follow up rituals again, but it ended up with good results. I just said what i wanted and why, and said what i was gonna offer for a period of time, but it wasn’t such as give yourself over to the demon after twenty years, that i would not do, and would not dare. I do value contract when i have written them, even job contracts, the spirits know if you have keep your contract/promise or not. If not it might be harder to get them to do you favour, but not impossible.

What i have heard is that some exorcists put the contract into the triangle before hand, and then start the operation, at the end of the operation, they could see ”burn marks” or other signs on the signature side of the paper which could indicate that the spirit signed the contract/paper and has agreed.

Yes you must mention that no one gets hurts, not even a single leaf from a tree. As we know they can be fishy and find ways to go around things we say or write, it is a must to be as specific as possible. Hope it helped.

 

[FireBorn]

What i have heard is that some exorcists put the contract into the triangle before hand, and then start the operation, at the end of the operation, they could see ”burn marks” or other signs on the signature side of the paper which could indicate that the spirit signed the contract/paper and has agreed.

Yes you must mention that no one gets hurts, not even a single leaf from a tree. As we know they can be fishy and find ways to go around things we say or write, it is a must to be as specific as possible.

I don't know… the whole "burn marks = demon signature" thing feels a lot like Hollywood Satanic Panic. And this idea that demons are just itching to twist your words? I mean… maybe, if you invoked them into a triangle and screamed at them in the name of a god you don't even believe in, thinking that somehow gave you authority.

Think about it: If I invited you to coffee, surrounded you with biker enforcers, yelled demands at you in their name, and offered you a cup of joe in exchange for a favor, how would you respond? Would you help from the heart? Or would you do the bare minimum, maybe even look for ways to mess with me later? Would you see me as the good guy in that story?

Perspective matters.

Here’s what I did. I invoked Duke Bune. No protection. Sovereign. I told him what I needed, assistance in getting $10k to fix my diesel truck. I didn’t bribe him. I didn’t beg. I didn’t even offer a pact. I just asked, respectfully and directly.

He answered. exactly as I asked. I mean exactly. Words mean things, better be razor sharp with your language with demons.

I received a flood of ideas (the assistance), downloadable products I could build and sell on my own site. I got to work. He met me halfway. Simple as that.

No triangles. No threats. No contracts. Just mutual respect and willingness to move.

 

[MorganBlack]

I was just saying on another forum the grimoires do us a bit of a disservice by presenting the demons as a D&D 'Monster Manual' populated by distinct personalities and beings. While in ritual it is useful to approach and treat them as fully distinct individuals, but they are truly Legion.

What the grimoires mostly do, in my opinion, is provide stories, personalities , and myths that structure the type of manifestation and experiences you'll have with the daimons. (This does not mean that the myths are "untrue" btw.) Modern simplified Goetia... ala GOM, S. Connolly et all, I hear can work, so all good. The GV too can provide even newcomers obvious and fast results with a few of the trivial operations. The full GV working is not required for results magic, but then again, neither are demons, so the question becomes what you'd like to experience over the course of your magical career.

The ritual framework you choose structures to a certain degree the effects and types of manifestations you'll have. The Grimorium Verum, as well as other "pact" - based grims are deeply chthonic in form, and create a ritual context that is similarly chthonic and outright paranormal. The most dramatic results, including theophanic manifestations, - and useful ones, not just poltergeist thrashing about - have been in using GV's protocols. Conversely the Lemegeton , which I admit to not having much experince in, I find more "stellar" and mental in effect. That said, as always, YMMV.

 

[William66]

I don't know… the whole "burn marks = demon signature" thing feels a lot like Hollywood Satanic Panic. And this idea that demons are just itching to twist your words? I mean… maybe, if you invoked them into a triangle and screamed at them in the name of a god you don't even believe in, thinking that somehow gave you authority.

I do believe in God, and do believe God is the one who gives authority, that is how i think.
I don’t scream/yell at them, i see no need for that then to piss them off.

Think about it: If I invited you to coffee, surrounded you with biker enforcers, yelled demands at you in their name, and offered you a cup of joe in exchange for a favor, how would you respond? Would you help from the heart? Or would you do the bare minimum, maybe even look for ways to mess with me later? Would you see me as the good guy in that story?

Yes good question. I think there is a hiearchy and God is at the top, so they do obey, that does not mean we should be rude . And for offering, it is up to the person and the spirit, in my case i saw faster and direct results after commanding him into the triangle.

Here’s what I did. I invoked Duke Bune. No protection. Sovereign. I told him what I needed, assistance in getting $10k to fix my diesel truck. I didn’t bribe him. I didn’t beg. I didn’t even offer a pact. I just asked, respectfully and directly.

He answered. exactly as I asked. I mean exactly. Words mean things, better be razor sharp with your language with demons.

I received a flood of ideas (the assistance), downloadable products I could build and sell on my own site. I got to work. He met me halfway. Simple as that.

No triangles. No threats. No contracts. Just mutual respect and willingness to move.

Yes indeed there are easier method, glad it worked out for you.

I did not evoke him into the triangle the first few times, i did not see results, so that is why i put him ”into the triangle”. Otherwise i just have the triangle there but evoke only outside the circle. Having the triangle isn’t a bad idea.

 

[FireBorn]

Yes indeed there are easier method, glad it worked out for you.

I did not evoke him into the triangle the first few times, i did not see results, so that is why i put him ”into the triangle”. Otherwise i just have the triangle there but evoke only outside the circle. Having the triangle isn’t a bad idea.

I agree with you here, there are many methods to get to the same place. I think the point is to get to that place.

If a specific structure gets you there, then that is the best structure for you. My lens, and my path is only for me. It most likely wouldn't be great for anyone but me (as much as I think its a great path, this is just reality).

I just hope you get results, contact is pretty sweet. Triangle or no.

I would be curious to hear from someone with ceremonial experience that has also worked via Demonolatry regarding if and how contact with demons was different. (Total aside, but still a curiosity of mine. Not that one is better or worse.)

 

[AxelAchiLles]

I don't know… the whole "burn marks = demon signature" thing feels a lot like Hollywood Satanic Panic. And this idea that demons are just itching to twist your words? I mean… maybe, if you invoked them into a triangle and screamed at them in the name of a god you don't even believe in, thinking that somehow gave you authority.

Think about it: If I invited you to coffee, surrounded you with biker enforcers, yelled demands at you in their name, and offered you a cup of joe in exchange for a favor, how would you respond? Would you help from the heart? Or would you do the bare minimum, maybe even look for ways to mess with me later? Would you see me as the good guy in that story?

Perspective matters.

Here’s what I did. I invoked Duke Bune. No protection. Sovereign. I told him what I needed, assistance in getting $10k to fix my diesel truck. I didn’t bribe him. I didn’t beg. I didn’t even offer a pact. I just asked, respectfully and directly.

He answered. exactly as I asked. I mean exactly. Words mean things, better be razor sharp with your language with demons.

I received a flood of ideas (the assistance), downloadable products I could build and sell on my own site. I got to work. He met me halfway. Simple as that.

No triangles. No threats. No contracts. Just mutual respect and willingness to move.

Finally. Spot on! Threating the Goetic Spirits........who does in this in 2026? I mean why one even bother? Anyways, could you provide some authors and books or your own style of magick, @FireBorn ?

 

[MorganBlack]

Threating the Goetic Spirits........who does in this in 2026?

While it's not my thing, there are some in the Daemonolatry community who do use the Lesser Key's "spirit-hostile" methods. They say the spirits who manifest to them want to be treated this way, and they seem to enjoy being treated be like masochists in a spirit BDSM dungeon.

Anyway, not my thing, but I'm not into kink-shaming entities either.

I have also heard that the daimons do enjoy the image of suffering on the cross of a Catholic rosary, which makes their own suffering feel seen, but that is not my experience. But I also don't like to erase the experiences of other magicans.

 

[SeekerPS]

Finally. Spot on! Threating the Goetic Spirits........who does in this in 2026? I mean why one even bother? Anyways, could you provide some authors and books or your own style of magick, @FireBorn ?

A lot of people do that in 2026. You can make it work without that, but then you start bargaining, and they start trying to make you accept less. You are there asking for 10 grand before next week and you start thinking: is it fair? Maybe I can do with 7k or 6k… after all, getting 6k in a week is rough enough, right?

And then you fell off into their game, those thoughts were put there by them, trying to give you less and less while asking you for more offerings, because, it’s difficult, right? And they are doing the heavy lifting…, while you are there just wabbling some weird words and burning some incense…

That’s how they start to shaft you. They are not your pals, they are not humans, and they will manipulate you if you allow them.

 

[AxelAchiLles]

While it's not my thing, there are some in the Daemonolatry community who do use the Lesser Key's "spirit-hostile" methods. They say the spirits who manifest to them want to be treated this way, and they seem to enjoy being treated be like masochists in a spirit BDSM dungeon.

Anyway, not my thing, but I'm not into kink-shaming entities either.

I have also heard that the daimons do enjoy the image of suffering on the cross of a Catholic rosary, which makes their own suffering feel seen, but that is not my experience. But I also don't like to erase the experiences of other magicans.

Does the Grimorium Verum require any rare or difficult-to-obtain ritual tools? Are there specific requirements concerning the wands or other implements? Does it involve animal sacrifice, such as the sacrifice of a lamb, or any similarly violent and time-consuming procedures?

Post automatically merged: Aug 23, 2026

A lot of people do that in 2026. You can make it work without that, but then you start bargaining, and they start trying to make you accept less. You are there asking for 10 grand before next week and you start thinking: is it fair? Maybe I can do with 7k or 6k… after all, getting 6k in a week is rough enough, right?

And then you fell off into their game, those thoughts were put there by them, trying to give you less and less while asking you for more offerings, because, it’s difficult, right? And they are doing the heavy lifting…, while you are there just wabbling some weird words and burning some incense…

That’s how they start to shaft you. They are not your pals, they are not humans, and they will manipulate you if you allow them.

What is your personal philosophy regarding daimons? Is there a particular guide, author, or grimoire that you consider your primary reference or that has had a significant influence on your practice?

 

[SeekerPS]

Does the Grimorium Verum require any rare or difficult-to-obtain ritual tools? Are there specific requirements concerning the wands or other implements? Does it involve animal sacrifice, such as the sacrifice of a lamb, or any similarly violent and time-consuming procedures?

Post automatically merged: Aug 23, 2026

What is your personal philosophy regarding daimons? Is there a particular guide, author, or grimoire that you consider your primary reference or that has had a significant influence on your practice?

The traditional way instructs you to use the black handle knife to sacrifice a goat or similar, skin it and so you can make the required virgin parchment for the procedures

 

[AxelAchiLles]

So, what is the difference between invoking or evoking a daimon through the Grimorium Verum and doing so through a modern demonolatry book?

What practical or spiritual difference would it make if the practitioner personally killed and skinned the goat? In 2026, do people truly need to follow such medieval methods in order to forge a pact with a Goetic deity—or with any other daimon?

What happens if someone is neither willing nor capable of killing a goat? Would the daimon simply reject them or refuse to establish a relationship with them? That makes no sense whatsoever to me. Why would an ancient, non-human intelligence care whether a modern practitioner had personally slaughtered an animal?

 

[FireBorn]

Finally. Spot on! Threating the Goetic Spirits........who does in this in 2026? I mean why one even bother? Anyways, could you provide some authors and books or your own style of magick, @FireBorn ?

I dont see demons as adversarial, evil or out to get you. This has been my consistent experience dealing with many of them.

When I started out, I read a little bit of S Connolly. She was very instrumental in helping me view demons as just entities rather than fallen angels from the Abrahamic lens. I do not subscribe to anything from that world view.

I dont learn by reading books. In fact, I try not to learn everything about a demon from a book. To me a book, or grimoire preloads an expectation from someone else's lens and framework. I will have my own lens no matter how I do it, but I try to keep that as clean as possible. I am not saying this is the right/best way, just my way. Take it for what it is.

Lilith is my Matron, so every demon I work with, I run past Lilith to find out if it aligns with me right now or not. This helps avoid a lot of extra bullshit. This doesn't mean things wont be unpleasant or hard, but it keeps things aligned.

I dont use protections. I just evoke or invoke and develop a relationship with said demon. It really is that simple. I show respect, but I dont bow, or worship (this is where I differ from some of the Demonolaters out there). I am irreverent, but respectful. My consent is the final word. I may not be in full control of the demon, but I do control 100% of my willingness to participate in said contact.

Now, this doesn't mean every encounter is wonderful. Sometimes lessons are hard, sometimes I face shit that sucks. This doesn't mean the encounter is 'bad' in the way many seem to perceive what an encounter should and shouldn't look like.

Also, for what its worth, I do not sit and make deal with demons. I do not treat them like the infernal Santa Claus so I can get blowjobs. I work with, I dont try to get them to just give me stuff. Again, this isn't for everybody, and it isn't a strict system that I learned from books.

I learned from Lilith and the demons I work with (this requires trust, hence relationship). For example, I am currently working with Azazel. he told me that he prefers invocation rather than evocation. This may only apply to me and what he has to teach me. each experience is its own thing, this helps me keep things grounded and sane.

Last thing, this isn't for everybody and that's fine. There are many ways to work with demons, and my way isn't what the popular kids are doing and I am fine with that. I dont do this for flex or popularity. I can tell you that I am not the same man who began this path, and that is positive in every way. I would 100% do it all over again the same exact way, mistakes and all.

Hope this clears things up regarding your question. Take what helps, burn the rest of it.

 

[SeekerPS]

So, what is the difference between invoking or evoking a daimon through the Grimorium Verum and doing so through a modern demonolatry book?

What practical or spiritual difference would it make if the practitioner personally killed and skinned the goat? In 2026, do people truly need to follow such medieval methods in order to forge a pact with a Goetic deity—or with any other daimon?

What happens if someone is neither willing nor capable of killing a goat? Would the daimon simply reject them or refuse to establish a relationship with them? That makes no sense whatsoever to me. Why would an ancient, non-human intelligence care whether a modern practitioner had personally slaughtered an animal?

That’s not really the point of my post. My point is that people start believing these entities are their friends and become empathetic toward them. I don’t agree with that. You can absolutely practice magic without a circle, triangle, wand, or any of the other traditional apparatus. You can summon something, or something that presents itself as that entity, and have it perform the work for you. You can call that demonolatry or whatever you want, but that isn’t Solomonic magic.


The grimoires have you prepare everything yourself because they place a lot of emphasis on the purity and preparation of the materials. That doesn’t necessarily mean you have to manufacture every object from scratch. I’ve used paper I bought from a store and then consecrated it myself, and it worked perfectly fine. The important part is that you consecrated it and incorporated it into the operation. You are the magician; you are responsible for preparing, consecrating, and maintaining your tools.


Where I strongly disagree is with the idea that threatening the spirit is pointless. Within the logic of the Goetic system, it isn’t pointless at all. The coercive aspect is important both for the magician and, within that system, for the spirit.


If you wanted $10,000 but settled for $6,000, did you actually want the $10,000 badly enough? Or were you prepared to insist on the original demand? If you’re not willing to stand your ground with the spirit, then why perform a coercive Goetic operation in the first place? You should perform the ritual when you know you want the result strongly enough that you’re willing to summon a demon and command it to obtain that result for you.


The spirit is also supposed to recognize your authority and, in the logic of the tradition, have reason to fear disobedience. Otherwise, the whole hierarchy starts falling apart. These entities are portrayed as extremely good at persuasion, deception, and getting the operator to change their mind.


Take the Goetic ring, for example. Do you really think the ring is literally going to protect you from a dragon breathing fire through its mouth? Obviously not. Its purpose can be understood as helping you maintain your composure, remember your authority, and stay focused on the request instead of allowing yourself to be intimidated or persuaded into abandoning it.


There are also plenty of philosophical discussions about spirits that predate the grimoires. I’ve found some of Iamblichus’ descriptions of spiritual beings interestingly consistent with what the grimoires describe, at least regarding some of the lesser entities.


And this is where I have trouble with the idea that the spirits are simply your supernatural friends. If these beings are intelligent enough to deceive the magician, why would they be incapable of recognizing ritual authority? They can be fooled by a paper crown, some utilitarian cosplay, and a magician declaring himself to be Solomon or one of the prophets, You wouldn’t even fool a child with that.


So either the entire system is being interpreted incorrectly, or the ritual objects and titles are literally “tricking” an entity into thinking you’re someone you’re not. The traditional Solomonic framework makes much more sense to me as a system of authority, preparation, coercion, and maintaining control over the operation. Whatever I don’t hold the universal truth, I just relate the way I do things and why

 

[MorganBlack]

I can only speak bout the GV (and while this is a JSK Verum thread, I think the bigger topics here are more important).

Daimons are LEGION. In Vodou, it's understood a Lwa's specific manifestation is the one of that specific Vodou House. So in using the GV, my Guland is MY Guland. The entity that responds to the very same name and seal for you will be a different Guland, one who manifests for you and where you are.

If your Guland shows up outside the circle as a desiccated 7-foot tall lamprey black cat thing , I will say 'that's weird,' but I can also recognize the Underworld chthonic language of black cats and disease.

I am not saying this is required for every sorcerous objective, but for things far outside of chance, or when attacking hard, spiritually protected targets, you WANT them as 'hot' (as we say) as possible, and depending on your mythic framework, they could appear very much as Hellspawn.

If you are not in a hurry, go with the gentle routes. The JSK route or by internalisng neoplatonism can get you cooler manifestations. Just be careful buttering them up too much, and or giving them too much sugar, sweet treats, and bonbons. You'll just make them 'fat and lazy,' as we say in Vodou. And then they will chat you up and maybe flatter you (Becasue deep down you still want that.) , but then real results may take a long time - OR - the results will only more than a little above normal chance if you only just put in a little effort yourself, juding only from other people's practices.

John King is to NOT wrong here to say to push harder. Pushing harder heats them up. Heating them up makes them meaner.

If you are in a hurry and/or have a BIG magical objective - meaning far outside chance - you need to 'heat them up,' as we say. Fire, hot rhetoric, and 'hot' ritual frameworks - the Catholic ones work here - can help 'heat them up,' but they will also manifest more as rabid hellspawn out to kill your enemies or get what you want. But beware, they are also given the sublunar bodies of rabid dogs and can bite your hand. At that point, a firm hand is often useful.

Fat, pasty, well-fed Neopagans in First World economies are playing on easy mode, so the more slow, 'cool and wise' placid manifestations work fine because their real-world stakes are so low. Do not judge people in other part of the world who need they a bit more firey and active.

I am sure British Luciferian Peter Grey would love all the daimons to be wise, sage, Byronic heroes, but he has to deal with this practical sublunar reality:

From Lucifer: Praxis:
"To valorise the demonic without exercising discrimination is to clutch the asp to one’s breast. It is foolish to accept, unconsciously or out of ignorance, the levelling terms of Christianity. Inversion is a reactive simplification which often leads to the removal of all the safeguards in ritual procedure, leaving the magician vulnerable to parasites, obsession, delusions and spiritual error. However, when we read the descriptions of spirits in the grimoires, we find that a nuanced world is often preserved, beyond the simple categories of good and evil. It does not mean that the demons are all demoted pagan gods whom we can placate with offerings, but neither are they one dimensional devils."

 

[AxelAchiLles]

That’s not really the point of my post. My point is that people start believing these entities are their friends and become empathetic toward them. I don’t agree with that. You can absolutely practice magic without a circle, triangle, wand, or any of the other traditional apparatus. You can summon something, or something that presents itself as that entity, and have it perform the work for you. You can call that demonolatry or whatever you want, but that isn’t Solomonic magic.


The grimoires have you prepare everything yourself because they place a lot of emphasis on the purity and preparation of the materials. That doesn’t necessarily mean you have to manufacture every object from scratch. I’ve used paper I bought from a store and then consecrated it myself, and it worked perfectly fine. The important part is that you consecrated it and incorporated it into the operation. You are the magician; you are responsible for preparing, consecrating, and maintaining your tools.


Where I strongly disagree is with the idea that threatening the spirit is pointless. Within the logic of the Goetic system, it isn’t pointless at all. The coercive aspect is important both for the magician and, within that system, for the spirit.


If you wanted $10,000 but settled for $6,000, did you actually want the $10,000 badly enough? Or were you prepared to insist on the original demand? If you’re not willing to stand your ground with the spirit, then why perform a coercive Goetic operation in the first place? You should perform the ritual when you know you want the result strongly enough that you’re willing to summon a demon and command it to obtain that result for you.


The spirit is also supposed to recognize your authority and, in the logic of the tradition, have reason to fear disobedience. Otherwise, the whole hierarchy starts falling apart. These entities are portrayed as extremely good at persuasion, deception, and getting the operator to change their mind.


Take the Goetic ring, for example. Do you really think the ring is literally going to protect you from a dragon breathing fire through its mouth? Obviously not. Its purpose can be understood as helping you maintain your composure, remember your authority, and stay focused on the request instead of allowing yourself to be intimidated or persuaded into abandoning it.


There are also plenty of philosophical discussions about spirits that predate the grimoires. I’ve found some of Iamblichus’ descriptions of spiritual beings interestingly consistent with what the grimoires describe, at least regarding some of the lesser entities.


And this is where I have trouble with the idea that the spirits are simply your supernatural friends. If these beings are intelligent enough to deceive the magician, why would they be incapable of recognizing ritual authority? They can be fooled by a paper crown, some utilitarian cosplay, and a magician declaring himself to be Solomon or one of the prophets, You wouldn’t even fool a child with that.


So either the entire system is being interpreted incorrectly, or the ritual objects and titles are literally “tricking” an entity into thinking you’re someone you’re not. The traditional Solomonic framework makes much more sense to me as a system of authority, preparation, coercion, and maintaining control over the operation. Whatever I don’t hold the universal truth, I just relate the way I do things and why

Forgive me if my question was somewhat off-topic; I simply jumped into the conversation-TOASTYYYY-out of nowhere to share my thoughts, haha.

If I understand you correctly, are you actually proposing that we coerce and threaten a literal higher intelligence—an entity from another dimension, potentially capable of manipulating reality in ways we cannot fully comprehend—simply so that the practitioner can maintain a sense of composure and authority?

Is approaching such an entity with respect, reciprocity, and a sense of equality not considered a legitimate option?

Solomonic magic simply does not make sense to me personally. I am speaking only for myself, of course, but once it is removed from the oppressive, deeply Christianized worldview of the medieval period, I struggle to understand the rationale behind treating vastly intelligent spiritual beings as though they must be threatened, constrained, and forced into submission, just to prove a point.

 

[MorganBlack]

literal higher intelligence

Where do you get that idea?

 

[SeekerPS]

Forgive me if my question was somewhat off-topic; I simply jumped into the conversation-TOASTYYYY-out of nowhere to share my thoughts, haha.

If I understand you correctly, are you actually proposing that we coerce and threaten a literal higher intelligence—an entity from another dimension, potentially capable of manipulating reality in ways we cannot fully comprehend—simply so that the practitioner can maintain a sense of composure and authority?

Is approaching such an entity with respect, reciprocity, and a sense of equality not considered a legitimate option?

Solomonic magic simply does not make sense to me personally. I am speaking only for myself, of course, but once it is removed from the oppressive, deeply Christianized worldview of the medieval period, I struggle to understand the rationale behind treating vastly intelligent spiritual beings as though they must be threatened, constrained, and forced into submission, just to prove a point.

Threatening is not disrespectful. Or at least not in the way you are required to do it. When the spirit arrives you welcome it:

WELCOME Spirit N., O most noble king

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(or kings)! I say thou art welcome unto me, because I have called thee through Him who has created Heaven, and Earth, and Hell, and all that is in them contained, and because also thou hast obeyed. By that same power by the which I have called thee forth, I bind thee, that thou remain affably and visibly here before this Circle (or before this Circle and in this triangle) so constant and so long as I shall have occasion for thy presence; and not to depart without my license until thou hast duly and faithfully performed my will without any falsity.

My boss doesn’t need to insult me just to remind me that if I fail in my duties, they will fire me

And about the point of them being super intelligent. Look, a chatgpt model knows much more than me about any general culture topic, and it will still suggest you to walk to the car wash that is 5 minutes from your home so you can save on gas. Each of those spirits is good at something, but you wouldn’t use Sitri to find treasure, as you wouldn’t ask Bune for the love of a person. Each one is concerned with their offices.