Bardon's Bullshit 'Kabbalah'

[jzatopa]

This is one of the more interesting threads I have skimmed through this month. I have looked into Franz Bardon a bit, but I have never bought one of his books yet. This thread really helped me sort through some of his history and such.

He really is the gold standard. If you haven't picked up his book, Id pick it up today! Start with Initiation into Hermetics (once called path of the true adept). The third book takes years to even get to without completing his first two books or having a teacher.

 

[Beyond Everything]

If you claim smoking is harmful to health, I can point to people who smoke and are far healthier than you are; so, don't try to impose your own ridiculous moral standards on others.

Smoking is indisputably. statistically unhealthy, a few outliers doesn't alter that. Furthermore, this hasn't the least to do with morals. Your very hypothetical 'healthier' people dont include Bardon, who is the topic of this thread. You may consider a chainsmoking obese person the model of personal will and esoteric healing accomplishment, but others outside a delusional bubble will likely laugh at that contention.

 

[ihateclowns]

If you have some emotional need that figures of the occult should be above critique, that is something to work out on your own.

I didn't say occult system or any one should be above critique but one should look at the credentials of the person who is doing the critiquing.

Crowley has gone mental in the end but he was no idiot he has produced some great works and his Thoth deck is a testimony to his credibility. I gave an example of the guy who runs a website with some followers who made his life's mission to attack famous occultists but the people who follow him religiously should ask what are his credentials what has he produced that helped at least even handful of people.

Instead of critiquing a better use of one's time is to upskill oneself to be of use to others and help other beings.

You may come across a fat martial artist and even laugh at him but may be in for a surprise how fast he moves and how easily he takes his opponent down.

I don't want to waste anymore time on this so not going to respond to your other points.

 

[Beyond Everything]

Instead of critiquing a better use of one's time is to upskill oneself to be of use to others and help other beings.

Knowing what to avoid can be a large part of real esoteric development.

If Bardon is proposing someone spend many, many years studying his system in order to gain the powers claimed in the kabbalah book, when in fact no one achieves them in anything like the degree they are promised, then being aware of an indisputable critique is highly useful early on. And it is indisputable, no one can gainsay the two facts of his claims vs his own results.

Then again, most people lack the inner strength and inborn spiritual quality to not just follow along with what some book or teacher says is so. This circles back to some much deeper esoteric isssues.

 

[jzatopa]

Knowing what to avoid can be a large part of real esoteric development.

If Bardon is proposing someone spend many, many years studying his system in order to gain the powers claimed in the kabbalah book, when in fact no one achieves them in anything like the degree they are promised, then being aware of an indisputable critique is highly useful early on. And it is indisputable, no one can gainsay the two facts of his claims vs his own results.

Then again, most people lack the inner strength and inborn spiritual quality to not just follow along with what some book or teacher says is so. This circles back to some much deeper esoteric isssues.

I am not sure you noticed but I asked you some basic questions to help you on this. You have some mistakes here but before I can help you, I'd need to have those questions answered. You mentioned that no one achieves something but that is a false statement in it's nature, as you would have to be omnipotent to have that as fact to have the correct data, I've also achieved much of the book and working on further right now. Bardon's theory is solid and one of the best written versions of the universal way of understanding what it's like to explain God to others as well as outlines a functional path for your own experience that does work. Yes there are ways to improve upon it in this day and age thanks to the numerous teachers, and related shaktipat, transmissions and lessons they provide but one can achieve whats in his books. Most of what you're asking about though is achieved in his first book, not his third.

In the start of the post you mentioned, with some odd spellings, the result of Y-H-V outlined and that you were struggling to understand and achieve such a result. It's not hard, I've lived it and worked it, I use this in more than one way, now have I achieved the full value of that in permanence? For the most part yes but I have range to me. What I think you may need is to know that you can do this without Bardon, there is more than one way. So if you're already working with God on the great work and talking with God all the time, the ability to move the ruach is more than just this, it's much more like reaching AHYH and then developing the ability to move the ruach and that is something I am still cultivating to this day. Granted, I will hit another level in a few days, my skills will improve and I will have more revealed but now you know you can do it if you set yourself to it!

I personally supplement Bardon with Ophanim yoga to open the third book faster but if you haven't achieved most of book one, you won't have the comprehension, let alone the energetic skills and personally I find IIH + Ophanim/Christ yoga rotated with AYP/Kundalini Yoga and Qi Gong to really be where we get a huge amount before we attempt biblical level work with God.

 

[Beyond Everything]

You mentioned that no one achieves something but that is a false statement in it's nature, as you would have to be omnipotent to have that as fact to have the correct data

You don't even know the difference between omnipotence and omniscience, and you're going to lecture others?

, I've also achieved much of the book

So you communicate with animals as easily as another human, you induce earthquakes, you have stopped your aging? Your claim that you have achieved 'much' of these powers ,well, we both know that isn't true. So what induces you to lie like this? Oh wait, I found out- you charge money for 'spiritual services', so that makes perfect sense. lol

 

[kazuriel01]

You don't even know the difference between omnipotence and omniscience, and you're going to lecture others?


So you communicate with animals as easily as another human, you induce earthquakes, you have stopped your aging? Your claim that you have achieved 'much' of these powers ,well, we both know that isn't true. So what induces you to lie like this? Oh wait, I found out- you charge money for 'spiritual services', so that makes perfect sense. lol

Hahahaha, you’re a typical Muggle. That is to say, you have no occult or magical abilities—and clearly, you can’t even make the effort to acquire them. That’s why you choose to badmouth successful people; it’s an inferiority complex. I’m sorry, but you’re just a Muggle who thinks they know everything while knowing absolutely nothing. I wish you luck—given your level of intelligence.

 

[Frater M.M.]

.. sorry, accidentally posted. will add to bottom of this post hopefully

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So you communicate with animals as easily as another human, you induce earthquakes, you have stopped your aging? Your claim that you have achieved 'much' of these powers ,well, we both know that isn't true. So what induces you to lie like this? Oh wait, I found out- you charge money for 'spiritual services', so that makes perfect sense. lol

Well, hang on, let's give jzatopa a chance to to explain themselves

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Ok, so I skimmed this post. I've achieved the letters within the book although I have yet to work with every combinatio

You mentioned that no one achieves something but that is a false statement in it's nature, as you would have to be omnipotent to have that as fact to have the correct data, I've also achieved much of the book and working on further right now. Bardon's theory is solid and one of the best written versions of the universal way of understanding what it's like to explain God to others as well as outlines a functional path for your own experience that does work. Yes there are ways to improve upon it in this day and age thanks to the numerous teachers, and related shaktipat, transmissions and lessons they provide but one can achieve whats in his books. Most of what you're asking about though is achieved in his first book, not his third.

...

I personally supplement Bardon with Ophanim yoga to open the third book faster but if you haven't achieved most of book one, you won't have the comprehension, let alone the energetic skills and personally I find IIH + Ophanim/Christ yoga rotated with AYP/Kundalini Yoga and Qi Gong to really be where we get a huge amount before we attempt biblical level work with God.

No one said nothing in Bardon works at all, and one can some achieve results even using a system that is shaky itself. The question is if the bold claims hold any water. The topic was his kabbalah and its grand claims, and you like everyone else here are unable to formulate a response to that.

My take:

It's pretty uncontroversial to say the bulk of IIH has loads of interesting/useful training techniques and kundalini/qigong have a lot to recommend for themselves in general (Ophanim/Christ yoga - dunno what this is, so can't comment on it).

However, BE's complaint is about the wilder claims of KTQ. If we park to one side all the stuff about being fat and smoking, etc. and take a look at KTQ, Bardon claims there are 100,000s of letter combinations (551,853 + 27 individual letters, apparently) and some of them are pretty wild:

A-K-A -- the experienced Quabbalist can "recall dead people to life".
E-Y -- invisibility even prevent a photographic image from being obtained, causing the film/plate to turn black.
L-A-W -- "water miracles", explicitly including walking on water.
E-Ch -- producing water even in a dry desert or directly from rock, causing rain and fog, and producing other unusual physical effects involving water.
E-L-M -- attainment of the "omnipotence of working creatively in all spheres".
M-H-Sh -- "the greatest miracles that are at all possible"
D-M-B -- the Quabbalist achieves anything he wishes
J-Ch-W -- the practitioner gains the same "absolute power" possessed by God.
Joe-Hoe-W -- brings about perfect harmony in the mental, astral and material worlds … which then must result in perfect health.
Ch -- allows the practitioner to understand all languages of the universe, including spiritual beings, humans and animals, and to be understood by them all.


A search on Rasmus shows me he does workshops focused on roughly 20 single letters (revolving around clairvoyance, healing and wealth) and a double letter E-S for awakening clairvoyance. By WF standards, I don't find this particularly controversial.

Personally, I'm curious if any "Bardonite" has achieved any of the following in the last 70 years or so, which would be really easy to test:

D-Sh -- accelerated seed growth, a treated seed will “shoot up and grow with unnatural rapidity.
D-T -- improved memory, which strengthens one’s own or another person’s memory.
D-R -- increased manual dexterity.
A-F -- removal of mental fatigue, the formula strengthens will, intellect and feeling so that fatigue disappears
E-Z -- increased sporting endurance, food/drink influenced by E-Z produces “great endurance in sports” by strengthening the nervous system.
E-I -- doubled or trebled muscular strength, material mastery can make muscular energy 2/3× greater, even mentioning bending thick iron bars and lifting heavy stones (apparently).

 

[ahathoor]

I think we don't need to bring criticism to the man himself to criticize his works... He was human, I don't think any of us are ontologically better. That said...

People tend to judge practitioners like Bardon. I have my own beef with Bardon, Crowley, Regardie, etc. What you have to understand is that they lived in different times. They didn't have access to the information we do, just a bunch of mistranslations and some questionable oral tradition. With what they had, they did their bloody best.

I don't particularly have "beef" with Bardon, but find him far less savory than Crowley or Regardie as a source...

Sure he was doing his best... but when looking at his works as a source or curriculum, it lacks the poetic flair and free spirit of Crowley, and is instead presented as a straitjacketed schoolbook, which makes his aberrations from the traditions he reinterprets to read more as mistakes rather than personal flavor within the natural flow of the grimoire tradition...

Also, for me his Saturnian perfectionism has always read less as an aspirational ideal than an easy way out if something doesn't work... ie. "the text is right, it's a you problem"... while in my opinion being just as potentially harmful as the opposite "just do whatever, dude, summon King Paimon with ChatGPT" approach of goetic tiktok kids... it feels almost like a spiritual trap...

 

[Beyond Everything]

A search on Rasmus shows me he does workshops focused on roughly 20 single letters (revolving around clairvoyance, healing and wealth) and a double letter E-S for awakening clairvoyance. By WF standards, I don't find this particularly controversial.

Even if we excise the ones claiming tremendous miracles, some of the 'simpler' ones are not in evidence. One combo is supposed to help one control weight- and neither Rasmus nor Bardon demonstrate that. You can point me out any Bardonite who has amassed great wealth through the letters- we have people having to sell courses on the letters to make money.

That’s why you choose to badmouth successful people; it’s an inferiority complex.

But my slow fellow- Bardon was not successful. That's why as I keep pointing out he was far, far from a state of perfect health, while the letters claim perfect health would be obtained through the letters. People who want to remain in fantasy land (apparently in your case with harry potter) have to wilfully ignore that, and by engaging in such self-deception they won't develop real powers. Humans have tremendous potential, but most of these powers only come to fruition post-mortem, that is if one has obtained the ultimate transformation. Ok, you can go and induce an earthquake now with bardon's little books.

 

[ihateclowns]

Personally, I'm curious if any "Bardonite" has achieved any of the following in the last 70 years or so, which would be really easy to test:

We will never know at that level that person could become a prophet or someone to oversee the fate of the planet and for someone to have reached that level and still show off to general public for getting famous or starting a lodge of his own is highly impossible. Talk is cheap anyone who just talks can't be taken seriously.

There are yogis from India recorded from the time of Blavatsky to even now who have shown miracles like creating fire out of nowhere, turned into a puddle of water, turning steel into gold etc.

There are ridiculous claims of Tibetan monks doing crazy things and Shaolin monks breaking steel rods with their skull (this you can see in one documentary).

There is a guy who does/did morphic fields (similar to subliminal audios) based on Rupert Sheldrake's work of morphic fields became a pioneer and famous on YouTube and he created so many fields to induce physical changes. I heard he retired but if you see his work people in thousands have benefited from his work.

So, if he could do then with training so rigorous and intense as IIH may be one can do even a little bit of what Bardon says that itself can be adventure may not be everyone's cup of whisky.

Some claims by Bardon may be far fetched for example possessing the power of God but Bardon's idea of God is not general definition of God by most people on the planet.

The entire argument of this guy is what Buddhists have known to do - condemn everything regardless without doing due diligence and branded themselves as intellectuals that is why West loves Buddhism.

If he wants to prove Bardon as a charlatan he should work it out the entire IIH first and if the initial steps fail to deliver then it gives credence to calling Bardon a charlatan but as said elsewhere people like to shit on others in occultism more than in academia because it is all ego trip. You can give up everything in life but not ego so easily.

It is nothing new or specific to this guy, orthodox magicians/occultists act like they were ordained to be the caretakers of all the esoteric knowledge and only their families were given rare grimoires which can't be shared with the world, to such people one should say "No thank you, I will find my own path".

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Buddhists have been known to do*

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:08 PM

Also in Patanjali Yoga Sutras there is one entire section on occult powers or siddhis and everyone on the path if carried out rigorous work is bound to gain those but the author says they are a trap to prevent you from knowing our true nature. And if you read the descriptions some are too hard to believe, can you become tiny or heavy like a mountain?

But yogis swear by, I can only say either go through the path and prove to yourself or travel all the world gathering evidence like Paul Brunton did.

 

[kazuriel01]

Even if we excise the ones claiming tremendous miracles, some of the 'simpler' ones are not in evidence. One combo is supposed to help one control weight- and neither Rasmus nor Bardon demonstrate that. You can point me out any Bardonite who has amassed great wealth through the letters- we have people having to sell courses on the letters to make money.


But my slow fellow- Bardon was not successful. That's why as I keep pointing out he was far, far from a state of perfect health, while the letters claim perfect health would be obtained through the letters. People who want to remain in fantasy land (apparently in your case with harry potter) have to wilfully ignore that, and by engaging in such self-deception they won't develop real powers. Humans have tremendous potential, but most of these powers only come to fruition post-mortem, that is if one has obtained the ultimate transformation. Ok, you can go and induce an earthquake now with bardon's little books.

Does it happen after death? That shows just how little you know; you can actually attempt this while undergoing an experience identical to death—that is precisely what astral projection is. Once you project and enter the astral realm, you can perform magical workings directly using your astral body. Furthermore, magic isn't for worldly gain; true power comes only when you let go of such things. If you pursue this path for money or material possessions, you’ll achieve nothing but black magic. Our goal is enlightenment, not causing earthquakes.

 

[Faria]

Crowley didn't even have control over his own mind in a basic fashion. IE being addicted to heroin.

You strike me as someone who probably uses psychiatric meds. Is this true? Have you ever tried to stop?

 

[Beyond Everything]

Talk is cheap anyone who just talks can't be taken seriously.

Why don't you apply that standard to Bardon? He publishes a book about the letters in which he doesn't say "I think it is possible that this particular letter can help in this area', but authoritatively states 'this letter can induce earthquakes'. How is that not just talk?

If he wants to prove Bardon as a charlatan he should work it out the entire IIH first and if the initial steps fail

Fallacious. The benefits of thought control have no bearing on the claims regarding the lettets (and brunton was a total, documented fraud btw)

you can actually attempt this while undergoing an experience identical to death—that is precisely what astral projection is.

Astral projection is not identical to death, and I invite you to go out of body and induce an earthquake. People with -actual- obe experience would not claim to do be able to so.

As for your claim that pursuing wealth is'black magic" (primitive schematization), why are there letters precisely for that? Both you and Bardon suffer from cognitive dissonance, which I might add has negative esoteric implications.

 

[jzatopa]

You don't even know the difference between omnipotence and omniscience, and you're going to lecture others?


So you communicate with animals as easily as another human, you induce earthquakes, you have stopped your aging? Your claim that you have achieved 'much' of these powers ,well, we both know that isn't true. So what induces you to lie like this? Oh wait, I found out- you charge money for 'spiritual services', so that makes perfect sense. lol

I'm not yet ready to lecture you but if you're requesting one we could set one up.

You have no idea what I have achieved or not achieved.

I understand you're in distress here, I'm not sure if you need my help but we in this community are here to help you.

I have given my work away for almost a decade so if you need to be one of my clients, that's ok and I could point you to others outside the system who I work with and train with from around the world who could help you too.

I usually see these types of traumas when someone's false sense of reality is shattered when they learn God's a fact and what God does through us on earth for those who are with God. You'd be amazed how bad it can be even by those who are training as for some it exposes the seperation between what they are achieving and why they "think".

So to help you more. Youve avoided some really serious basic questions, could you help us help you by telling us are you able to answer these questions or is that still not a level of life you're able to share with us yet. That really is the first step to developing if you want to achieve what's in this book. One must know how to walk on water to start and I'm talking in the literal sense, not the physical only one way to know this sense. It's designed that way to let the aspirant of alignment with God to realize it's small and has no idea about anything until it surrenders to God and then start to live in alignment (which you're showing you need help here deeply with, and maybe this cry for help is just what you need, help is here). As alignment happens, one becomes, "walked upon the water" and that's advanced but the body becomes one with God and thus God walks us.

If Bardon challenges you too much, as it seems like this is a dishonest post as one who achevies the first step of the first book would demonstrate the ability even in everything typed, and you haven't modeled it yet here (this is an invite to move to that level if youve done the first step of the first book). You have many other options to achieve the same results eventually and I'd be happy to point you into those directions. I'd hate to think you are experiencing any suffering considering suffering has ended for us who have achieved this for the most part from the first few steps of the first book + the right related physical practice (if you're not using the right physical practice you can limit development a whole lot and while I haven't seen or treated it, possibly deviation, Qi or otherwise).

 

[Frater M.M.]

Even if we excise the ones claiming tremendous miracles, some of the 'simpler' ones are not in evidence.

Well, yes, I agree. That was my point. There is no reason (a priori) to assume D-Sh (accelerated seed growth) and E-Z (food/drink influenced by E-Z produces “great endurance in sports” by strengthening the nervous system) require a radically higher level of attainment of Bardon's system than E-S (awakening clairvoyance) to achieve.

Not to go full Randi on Bardon (and others) but I'm personally not going to invest loads of money and decades of my life to investigate KTQ on a "trust me, bro".

In the context of health/healing, Spring forest that I mentioned further up also makes wild claims e.g. "Spring Forest Qigong students and practitioners have shown that their SFQ practice has helped to heal many health challenges, including:

Cancers
Comas
Spinal Problems
Hearing & Vision Problems
Gallbladder & Kidney Stones
Sinus Problems, Allergies, & Lung Problems
Strokes
Migraines
Glandular Dysfunction
Reproductive Organ Problems
Heart Disease & Circulatory Problems
Stress, Anxiety, Panic Attacks, & Depression
Diabetes
Weight Issues
Kidney & Liver Dysfunction
General & Post-Operative Pain
Autoimmune Dysfunction (AIDS, Lupus, Etc.)
Addictions, PTSD, OCD, ADD/ADHD, & Dyslexia"

However, at least they bothered to support a research program and publicly link their studies to cover some (but not all) of their claims, plus their system claims some results may only take a few months to start appearing (in theory, anyway).

D-Sh and E-Z would be incredibly easy to test empirically (as would most of the other letters/combos I've seen, really) and I see no reason why anyone wouldn't want to publish studies if they were teaching Bardon KTQ letters in 2026. This isn't asking someone to empirically demonstrate something like A-K-A (recalling dead ppl to life).

Also, what is making the issue raised in the OP more complicated is that nobody seems to be following a pure Bardon syllabus anymore. Ppl are mixing all sorts of other systems in so it's starting to get a bit confusing as to how to untangle what is actually responsible for any effects. For example, if ppl are mixing IIH + KTQ/Quabbalah letters + qigong + Reiki + yoga + whatever, how are we meant to know what causal weight KTQ letters have, if any?

Anyway I was just curious to see if anyone had at least some kind of material/empirical evidence for KTQ letters and their specific effects but haven't seen any in this thread (unless I missed it). And that's fine, each to their own, etc. I'm not the Quabbalah police.

-----------

There are yogis from India recorded from the time of Blavatsky to even now who have shown miracles like creating fire out of nowhere, turned into a puddle of water, turning steel into gold etc.

There are ridiculous claims of Tibetan monks doing crazy things and Shaolin monks breaking steel rods with their skull (this you can see in one documentary).

There is a guy who does/did morphic fields (similar to subliminal audios) based on Rupert Sheldrake's work of morphic fields became a pioneer and famous on YouTube and he created so many fields to induce physical changes. I heard he retired but if you see his work people in thousands have benefited from his work.

So, if he could do then with training so rigorous and intense as IIH may be one can do even a little bit of what Bardon says that itself can be adventure may not be everyone's cup of whisky.

Yes, this is all fair, but I would hold all these groups to the same standard as I would Bardon. In fact, Sheldrake is a good case in point. I thought his experiments on "dog telepathy" were very interesting, for example. Regardless of what you think about his conclusion/interpretation, at least he did a load of experimental research on it.

It seems like you're talking about Sapien Medicine/Dreamweaver? Again, like with Spring Forest, we may get to see some claimed effects in weeks/months, which is good. Unfortunately, it looks like an experiment of theirs using EEG measurements and a public group was abandoned due to Covid, which I would have quite liked to have seen.

But yeah, something I'll take a closer look at as it sounds interesting (especially as it has links to Sheldrake), but I'll still hold it to the same standard as everything else. I guess at the end of the day results are what count for me really but I only have so much time (and money) to personally investigate everything, so I need some way to cut down on options

 

[Beyond Everything]

You strike me as someone who probably uses psychiatric meds. Is this true? Have you ever tried to stop?

I'm not yet ready to lecture you but if you're requesting one we could set one up.

You have no idea what I have achieved or not achieved.

I understand you're in distress here, I'm not sure if you need my help but we in this community are here to help you.

I have given my work away for almost a decade so if you need to be one of my clients, that's ok and I could point you to others outside the system who I work with and train with from around the world who could help you too.

I usually see these types of traumas when someone's false sense of reality is shattered when they learn God's a fact and what God does through us on earth for those who are with God. You'd be amazed how bad it can be even by those who are training as for some it exposes the seperation between what they are achieving and why they "think".

So to help you more. Youve avoided some really serious basic questions, could you help us help you by telling us are you able to answer these questions or is that still not a level of life you're able to share with us yet. That really is the first step to developing if you want to achieve what's in this book. One must know how to walk on water to start and I'm talking in the literal sense, not the physical only one way to know this sense. It's designed that way to let the aspirant of alignment with God to realize it's small and has no idea about anything until it surrenders to God and then start to live in alignment (which you're showing you need help here deeply with, and maybe this cry for help is just what you need, help is here). As alignment happens, one becomes, "walked upon the water" and that's advanced but the body becomes one with God and thus God walks us.

If Bardon challenges you too much, as it seems like this is a dishonest post as one who achevies the first step of the first book would demonstrate the ability even in everything typed, and you haven't modeled it yet here (this is an invite to move to that level if youve done the first step of the first book). You have many other options to achieve the same results eventually and I'd be happy to point you into those directions. I'd hate to think you are experiencing any suffering considering suffering has ended for us who have achieved this for the most part from the first few steps of the first book + the right related physical practice (if you're not using the right physical practice you can limit development a whole lot and while I haven't seen or treated it, possibly deviation, Qi or otherwise).

I didn't read all this drivel but the fact you confuse perpetual amusement with distress demonstrates you have no bardonian supreme abilities. As well, people under the sway of egregores (aka so-called god) often couch their very human motives and reactions in sanctimony.

 

[Faria]

I didn't read all this drivel

You suggest that heroin addiction invalidates Crowley's reputation as a magician. That's usually the first thing detractors bring up, especially those who have not read The Book of Thoth which he wrote at 70. Do you know a whole lot of 70 year olds who could write that? I don't. I also don't know a lot of heroin addicts about whom it could be said, "He was at the forefront of every major cultural movement of his century." Will that be said of you?

But my point is that almost everyone has some kind of addiction. Those who don't, tend to be very carefully concealing monstrous things about themselves, or at least concealing a case of booze. So how about you? Psych meds? Coffee? Or are you a devout Mormon?

And by the way, since you're critical of the current fan clubs, who do you see as a great magician of the modern age? Whose work and career as a magician would you say had it right?

 

[Beyond Everything]

That's usually the first thing detractors bring up, especially those who have not read The Book of Thoth which he wrote at 70. Do you know a whole lot of 70 year olds who could write that?

Well, as I didn't say he couldn't write, this is irrelevant. He could put bullshit from pen to paper all day, yet when he tried to do money magic he usually failed.

But my point is that almost everyone has some kind of addiction.

Yet not everyone claims to have achieved a grade that explicitly states : The Ipsissimus is pre-eminently the Master of all modes of existence; that is, his being is entirely free from internal or external necessity.

Those who don't, tend to be very carefully concealing monstrous things about themselves, or at least concealing a case of booze. So how about you? Psych meds? Coffee? Or are you a devout Mormon?

Just make up whatever you like. Though how you get 'devout mormon' out of my saying god is an egregore is a mystery.

 

[ihateclowns]

Why don't you apply that standard to Bardon? He publishes a book about the letters in which he doesn't say "I think it is possible that this particular letter can help in this area', but authoritatively states 'this letter can induce earthquakes'. How is that not just talk?

You are again doing the same thing, there is a difference between claiming something as a part of a magical system/grimoire and someone in the modern times completing calling it as quackery in order to establish himself as superior magician or intellectual. To satisfy you then Bardon ideally should have recorded photographic or video evidence of everything he wrote in his books.

Then again which author did it in history and till now? I don't know if it is possible to induce earthquakes or not but as mentioned in the reply above there are enough recorded evidences of some of the things Bardon claims by yogis from the East for god knows how long that is enough for me not to call him a charlatan.

A charlatan is someone whose entire work is false or misleading. Carlos Castaneda was/is considered as charlatan by so many academicians but boy never in my life I have seen a Spanish native in the history of humanity write such beautiful English literature which just by reading transports you to different realms.

Fallacious. The benefits of thought control have no bearing on the claims regarding the lettets (and brunton was a total, documented fraud btw)

Who is not a fraud according to you?

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:46 AM

It seems like you're talking about Sapien Medicine/Dreamweaver? Again, like with Spring Forest, we may get to see some claimed effects in weeks/months, which is good. Unfortunately, it looks like an experiment of theirs using EEG measurements and a public group was abandoned due to Covid, which I would have quite liked to have seen.

Yes he is the guy. Forget the experiments people have reported results as comments in hundreds they indeed work. I used some and they do.

I guess at the end of the day results are what count for me really but I only have so much time (and money) to personally investigate everything, so I need some way to cut down on options

Yea baseless arguments to prove which author is better and which lodge is better sheer time wasting and Bardon himself says to be gentle with others and ruthless with oneself.

Post automatically merged: Today at 2:55 AM

But my point is that almost everyone has some kind of addiction. Those who don't, tend to be very carefully concealing monstrous things about themselves, or at least concealing a case of booze. So how about you? Psych meds? Coffee? Or are you a devout Mormon?

Occult knowledge is with both good and evil forces/entities there are no restrictions, anyone who tries and puts in the work get the knowledge. Imagining some powerful entities latch on to you for their own purpose in return deliver occult secrets is quite possible.

Some people probably from Abrahamic upbringing think God is all good and positive while anything bad and evil is not God which even a beginner in occultism would laugh at, so people making silly arguments that a guy used to maintain harems, an addict so he is not worth anything is very naive or just intentional.