[Help] Searching For REAL Magic

[Pestifer Mundi]

Hello, I know nothing about magic that is worth knowing, I am a blank slate, and I've been searching for years.

I am sorry if I come off as rude with what I have to say next.

I kind of feel stupid typing this out based on the level of delusion I've seen in my many years of searching the internet for such knowledge, but I'm hoping there is atleast one legitimate practitioner on this forum, that would hopefully atleast be amused enough by my plea to start me along the path, because for the most part it seems like REAL magic is hidden and kept secret.

I've even tried searching on the deepweb but the deepweb search engines never turn up any results, couldn't even find a page or a forum

Based on the years I spent searching the internet, I think most people who are into magic/occultism are:
1. Delusional (they have not tested their beliefs in any legitimate way)
2. Larping (its just a fun hobby for them, they don't care if its real, and they think people like me are "taking things too seriously")

I however do truly believe in magic and that there are actually real life practitioners of magic that deal with real world issues, and use magic to affect actual reality (to affect the world around them).

Maybe I'm also delusional for even believing that real magic exists, that may sadly be the case.


In my book, if your magic is merely theoretical and you can't use it to do something "tangible", something that can be observed and tested in front of your eyes and affect physical reality in front of you, then you are just delusional and the "magic" that you practice isn't real (since there's no real way for you to know if its a placebo or not).

I've scrolled through this forum and seen all manner of posts by users claiming they've used "energy" to create a "protection field" or something like that, but how did they test that field?, what was their criteria to determine whether the field failed or succeeded?, etc.

It all becomes really frustrating looking for real magic in this world, because deep down I truly believe it exists, but its just "hidden in the background", and most people are content with self delusion and/or "make believe", but for me its not enough

I NEED THE REAL THING


I'm looking for guidance (or atleast a push/hint in the right direction) from an actual practitioner of magic or some form of occultism (alchemy, psychic, etc)

I'm looking for a specific task that if I complete would have a real life effect that I can observe, not something that takes place in "my minds eye", not "astral projection during lucid dreaming", not whatever other nonsense we've all seen a million times that conveniently can never be observed and tested in real time

So to the real practitioner(s) that is(are) reading this, I hope you hear my cry. I know there is more to this world than what meets the eye, and I want to be a part of that more

 

[SkullTraill]

Moved to General Occult Discussion

 

[8Lou1]

Not really amused by it, but why not...
Could you share what kind of occult paths you have studied, besides the larping(im tired of it too)?

Due to your use of vocabulary i am also inclined to ask if you are aware of a path called spiritual vampirism.

Last, but not least: wanting to be part of the real deal, means a lot of innerwork, self development, etc. So where are you on that trail?

 

[Pestifer Mundi]

Due to your use of vocabulary i am also inclined to ask if you are aware of a path called spiritual vampirism.

I've heard of it before but I am very ignorant when it comes to anything occult, I don't even know where to start, I've never dabbled because anything I came across always seemed fake and basically "untestable", it was always a "if you feel it its real" kind of deal, nothing that can be observed in physical reality

However I've always been kind of obsessed with the idea of Alchemy and the philosopher stone, and how so many alchemists over centuries of human existence have tried to create this thing, and its been their life's work

It really makes you wonder if one was successful, and if they may have achieved immortality and still be alive today because of that

Last, but not least: wanting to be part of the real deal, means a lot of innerwork, self development, etc. So where are you on that trail?

I'm nowhere on that trail, but also the things you just mentioned are pretty vague, it just seems like more of the same of what I've been talking about really

Someone can spend years trying various things for "self development" and "innerworK" and go nowhere because its not specific

What would "self development" and "innerwork" entail with regards to spiritual vampirism?

How would one confirm that they are making progress?

 

[The God-King]

Perhaps I'm reading you wrong but I don't think you want magic, rather I think you want mysticism. It seems like you're looking for an experience and mysticism can provide you with that but I won't lie, it takes time. Magic can give you experiences as well, but most practitioners in the West are after materialism, not spiritual experiences. So most magic in the West is directed at getting something; a better job, a spouse/lover, new house or car, better health, etc. Experience based magic does exist in the West, of course, we have Western Esotericism, but these systems take time to work properly. I think you may be interested in studying mystical paths rather than magical ones. Or, if you do want to stick with magic focus on more spirit led systems as the chances of physical phenomena happening during ritual is much higher, which would lend to your ideas of proof and "the real thing". Systems such as Voudon, Santeria, Palo Mayombe, Quimbanda, Current 218/NCAQ, etc.

 

[8Lou1]

thank tgk, i was thinking the same thing.

op said: 'if you feel it its real' kinda deal.
well just like with lots of things in life. fake it till you make it, works when you have enough patience in magick workings. so in that sense it really depends on your perseverance. this has often to do with the spiritworld needing to know your true needs and your true being. otherwise they get in trouble and they dont like that. feelings and emotions are important tools in magick so even though it sounds fake it is a start to more.

the philosopher's stone is to be found in the direction tgk is mentioning.

self development and innerwork are actually quite specific as it deals with the path from ya average you to the magickal you. in order to reach that one needs to find the loops one walks and the loops of others that interfear and need to be discarded. but there is more one needs to recognize and accept ones flaws so that one can turn those into powers or at least bring it to a neutral stance.

how this combines with spiritual vampirism is for me ( and i dont know if thats a general thing or personal) that i by that way can manipulate the world to my liking. at this point in time i can get aggrivated by the attacks and spyops going around on more spiritual evolved people, so i use it for spreading knowledge and safekeeping.

if a spiritual vampire doesnt truely know it self, the above creates a mess, where people can get sick, misfortune happens, etc.

so yes knowing who is the real 'I' is quite important

and how do i confirm what i am doing, well i see the things i create happening in front of my eyes. there are also parts i have to be more like water and just flow. this is because i dont understand it and therefore i know it is not me doing it. i do know however that what is happening is my will. so again know thyself and you start to notice what you create.

 

[Pestifer Mundi]

Perhaps I'm reading you wrong but I don't think you want magic, rather I think you want mysticism. It seems like you're looking for an experience and mysticism can provide you with that but I won't lie, it takes time. Magic can give you experiences as well, but most practitioners in the West are after materialism

I'm not looking for anything as vague as "an experience", I'm looking for something to "actually happen" based on my intent

Here's a simple example, me being able to visibly levitate and move an object with intent (specific speed, trajectory, etc)

An "experience" is more like something like a "seance" where people channel/summon a spirit and then it throws a bunch of random stuff around the room

Not only can that be staged, but if you did the "real deal" you are now this weak physical being completely at the mercy of an "ascended" spiritual being, that doesn't sound very smart

If there is no "control factor" its not "magic" in my book, in the same way that randomly mixing chemicals together isn't "science", you would just be haphazardly playing with forces you can't comprehend

There has to be some kind of structured method of learning as there are many texts describing groups that practiced such things, but its like all that knowledge is lost and/or hidden so modern day humans are stuck throwing random stuff at a wall and hoping something sticks lol

Like some kind of really old book from which you can read, learn and practice and slowly grow your knowledge and ability, safely, so you don't overstep your bounds and wind up killing yourself or someone else

 

[Pestifer Mundi]

thank tgk, i was thinking the same thing.

op said: 'if you feel it its real' kinda deal.
well just like with lots of things in life. fake it till you make it, works when you have enough patience in magick workings. so in that sense it really depends on your perseverance. this has often to do with the spiritworld needing to know your true needs and your true being. otherwise they get in trouble and they dont like that. feelings and emotions are important tools in magick so even though it sounds fake it is a start to more.

the philosopher's stone is to be found in the direction tgk is mentioning.

self development and innerwork are actually quite specific as it deals with the path from ya average you to the magickal you. in order to reach that one needs to find the loops one walks and the loops of others that interfear and need to be discarded. but there is more one needs to recognize and accept ones flaws so that one can turn those into powers or at least bring it to a neutral stance.

how this combines with spiritual vampirism is for me ( and i dont know if thats a general thing or personal) that i by that way can manipulate the world to my liking. at this point in time i can get aggrivated by the attacks and spyops going around on more spiritual evolved people, so i use it for spreading knowledge and safekeeping.

if a spiritual vampire doesnt truely know it self, the above creates a mess, where people can get sick, misfortune happens, etc.

so yes knowing who is the real 'I' is quite important

and how do i confirm what i am doing, well i see the things i create happening in front of my eyes. there are also parts i have to be more like water and just flow. this is because i dont understand it and therefore i know it is not me doing it. i do know however that what is happening is my will. so again know thyself and you start to notice what you create.

Is there some kind of book, guide, manuscript that I can learn from, that's really what I'm here for

 

[8Lou1]

yeah i just read your comment to tgk, i would advise you to read the berhatiah.
there are several downloads online. i know nineveh shadrach has a nice translation with explanation. he advises a lot of meditation as for work though. my father in law uses the same thing, but says you just need the berhatiah and it's code nothing more. either way i tried the prayer and it works, but im quite spiritual aligned anyways so i dont know if that works for the average joe.

either way it is a fun book with a lot of umpf and power in all directions

 

[Pestifer Mundi]

yeah i just read your comment to tgk, i would advise you to read the berhatiah.
there are several downloads online. i know nineveh shadrach has a nice translation with explanation. he advises a lot of meditation as for work though. my father in law uses the same thing, but says you just need the berhatiah and it's code nothing more. either way i tried the prayer and it works, but im quite spiritual aligned anyways so i dont know if that works for the average joe.

either way it is a fun book with a lot of umpf and power in all directions

@The God-King

I downloaded the book, will take a read a bit later, I have another question though

Have you ever or do you know of anyone that has done actual telekinesis (move objects with their mind)?

I feel like "physical magic" is closer to the core of what magic is and people who could do it would have a better understanding of the forces around us that most others, and that's because they have to directly invoke their will rather than do a ritual and hope that another being acts on their behalf

 

[SkullTraill]

Have you ever or do you know of anyone that has done actual telekinesis (move objects with their mind)?

No.

 

[Alfher]

What is actually real and what you want to be real may not be the same thing, kiddo.

I have certainly put my magic to the test over the years. I’ve healed my eyes so that I no longer need glasses. I’ve gotten healthier over all, and helped other people with ailments when I’m able. I’ve improved my finances, dramatically improved my general living situation, and so on. Nevermind performing a couple of exorcisms and dealing with some drama like that. My entire life is what it is now because I have used magic to change things to improve my circumstances again and again.

That is all stuff you can learn how to do.

But if you wanna play Harry Potter or cast Fireball, you’re gonna be sorely disappointed no matter where you go.

If you want a book to read, Jason Miller’s books are excellent for beginner sorcery. The Sorcerer’s Secrets especially. He also has classes he teaches online.

If you want more ancient stuff, roll up your academic sleeves and start studying old grimoires or the Greek Magical Papyri. Dr. Stephen Skinner and Robert Peterson have given some excellent and extraordinary academic efforts to translating and reviving old manuscripts of old magic. Jason Newcomb is also teaching an online PGM class next month that I will be attending myself.

But my key advice is this: let go of your expectations, and let the Other be what it is. What is real, is real. Approach it on its terms. Not yours.

 

[SkullTraill]

In my book, if your magic is merely theoretical and you can't use it to do something "tangible", something that can be observed and tested in front of your eyes and affect physical reality in front of you, then you are just delusional and the "magic" that you practice isn't real (since there's no real way for you to know if its a placebo or not).

You can think that if you want. That's just a different kind of delusion to think that just because something doesn't have a guaranteed, immediate, physical effect that it must be "placebo". There are plenty of things in life, and the universe that are hard to predict and have statistically noticable results but not guaranteed... That doesn't mean they are not real... and it doesn't mean there aren't legitimate, effective ways to increase the odds of something happening. The fact that you dismiss it entirely because "nothing happens in front of your eyes" tells me either you're really desperate for some control in your life, or you're smoking some good crack.

I'm looking for a specific task that if I complete would have a real life effect that I can observe, not something that takes place in "my minds eye", not "astral projection during lucid dreaming", not whatever other nonsense we've all seen a million times that conveniently can never be observed and tested in real time

Seems to me you're looking for some fantastical "harry potter" magic, and you're convinced that's the only type of magic that matters. Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, but it doesn't exist. If it did, it would be common knowledge by now. Like how Alchemy turned into Chemistry. Whatever happens in this universe needs to obey the physical laws of this universe. And while there may be some areas of physics that are yet to be fully understood, enough is known about it at this point that we know things like telekenesis and forming "energy orbs" in your hands is just not possible. The answers to those questions lie in science and technology (which may have been called magic in the past).

Even if it was possible, that means it's been kept hidden and secret for so long by the people who know about it, so what do you hope to gain by reading on the internet and reading books? You'd have better luck jumping into bushes and walls randomly with the hope that one of them is a portal to some kind of hogwarts secret society.

Maybe you've just watched too many movies, and read too many novels, or played too many games. Remember that magic is esoteric, difficult, and unpredictable because it is simply beyond our understanding, and beyond our absolute control. If it wasn't it wouldn't be magic, it would be science. There is no "secret admin menu" you can open that allows you to easily do whatever you want and send objects flying. You have to work with mechanisms that are not fully understood, pulling strings that are attached to more fundamental and abstract mechanisms that aren't designed to exercise petty human whims.

 

[Pestifer Mundi]

You can think that if you want. That's just a different kind of delusion to think that just because something doesn't have a guaranteed, immediate, physical effect that it must be "placebo".

More likely than not it is just a placebo because it can't really be tested now can it

effective ways to increase the odds of something happening.

I don't think you get it, the things I'm talking about that aren't "real magic" are the things you can't test period, you don't even get to check for "increased odds" because there's no way to test it at all, its just "I believe/feel that something happened", that has nothing to do with odds at all

Odds ironically have to do with things that can be tested, because that's how you confirm that the rate of occurrence/incident has changed

Seems to me you're looking for some fantastical "harry potter" magic, and you're convinced that's the only type of magic that matters

"Matters" is vague, "useful" isn't, something can "matter" to someone even if its "useless" (can't be used for a specific task) because it makes them feel a certain way

This is the mindset I was talking about with the "larpers", they don't care if anything is actually happening or not, the idea of magic makes them feel a certain way about life (happy) and its fun hobby for them, they don't take the concept of magic "seriously"

Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, but it doesn't exist. If it did, it would be common knowledge by now.

That's ironic, why isn't what you know "common knowledge" then? (I doubt most people know what you know)

Even if it was possible, that means it's been kept hidden and secret for so long by the people who know about it, so what do you hope to gain by reading on the internet and reading books? You'd have better luck jumping into bushes and walls randomly with the hope that one of them is a portal to some kind of hogwarts secret society.

Well I'm going to keep looking, no reason to stop, I have a few decades left on this earth before I die anyways and what I'm looking for is worth finding even if it takes my entire life

If you want more ancient stuff, roll up your academic sleeves and start studying old grimoires or the Greek Magical Papyri. Dr. Stephen Skinner and Robert Peterson have given some excellent and extraordinary academic efforts to translating and reviving old manuscripts of old magic. Jason Newcomb is also teaching an online PGM class next month that I will be attending myself.

I will definitely look into this

But my key advice is this: let go of your expectations, and let the Other be what it is. What is real, is real. Approach it on its terms. Not yours.

There is no point to interacting with forces that you cannot manipulate with an end goal in mind

You yourself said you healed your eyesight and performed exorcisms (specific tasks executed with intent - REAL magic), so its kind of ironic to tell someone to let go of their expectations when you are the one assuming limitations, despite the amazing feats you have alleged to do. Whose to say the line stops at what you've done so far

You have to see the irony in citing these amazing feats that go past most human expectations, but then drawing a line and saying - "lower your expectations" past this point

If after all your years of study all you could do is create a light show of sparks and fire, a kids magic trick, would you really have bothered?

If everything you had done didn't allow you to heal your eyesight, do an exorcism, etc, but instead all it allowed you to do was a kids light show, like some random light magic something or other, would that have been a worthwhile outcome to you?

I doubt it, you would never have bothered to go on the path you chosen if you knew that was the absolute limit and there was no way around it

 

[Alfher]

I’m not telling you to lower your expectations. I’m telling you to let go of them entirely, and approach the universe on its own terms instead of trying to force your preconceived notions to exist.

The universe is ineffably and unfathomably larger than you, and she will not simply bend over and let you make her your bitch. But if you wanna learn that the hard way, good luck.

 

[Pestifer Mundi]

I’m not telling you to lower your expectations. I’m telling you to let go of them entirely

If I remove my expectations then I also remove any reason to bother investing time and energy

It makes much more sense to go in with my own expectations and then learn overtime how far I have to dial it back

If I learn that it has to be dialed back far enough that my cost vs benefit analysis makes it pointless to me, I'll stop

The universe is ineffably and unfathomably larger than you, and she will not simply bend over and let you make her your bitch

Why did you have to phrase it like this man, you know full well this is going to make the average man want to do it even more

I'll keep you guys updated

 

[Alfher]

Why did you have to phrase it like this man, you know full well this is going to make the average man want to do it even more

Nah. An average man, or a good man, would understand that you need to build relationships and offer the universe respect and reverence.

You just think like a rapist, and you think you can rape your way into being a successful magician. But the more you try that, the worse your very rude awakening shall be.

 

[SkullTraill]

More likely than not it is just a placebo because it can't really be tested now can it

What do you mean "tested"? You mentioned seeing things before your eyes as the only way something could be real. That was what I was talking about. Plenty of us on this forum have had repeatable results. It's just not guaranteed and it's definitely not things that happen right before our eyes like telekenesis.

Like I said before, if magic was entirely predictable and lab testable it would be science, not magic.

I don't think you get it, the things I'm talking about that aren't "real magic" are the things you can't test period, you don't even get to check for "increased odds" because there's no way to test it at all, its just "I believe/feel that something happened", that has nothing to do with odds at all

Odds ironically have to do with things that can be tested, because that's how you confirm that the rate of occurrence/incident has changed

Okay then say that. Earlier you said "something that can be observed and tested in front of your eyes and affect physical reality in front of you" which is what I was refering to. If you can't remember what you yourself said then don't accuse other people of "not getting it".

Like I said before, most magic related things can't be lab tested, but it doesn't have to be for it to matter or be useful to someone. That doesn't mean it didn't help. It's perfectly possible for your actions to increase the odds of something happening even if you can't directly measure it and confirm the cause yourself. You could observe a period of your life where X happens consistently, and then do some magical working and then observe a period where Y happens instead. You may not be able to consistently, scientifically prove cause and effect, and scientifically it could be dismissed as coincidence, but when it happens with a satisfactory degree of certainty to any one person, then that person would find it useful to them.

"Matters" is vague, "useful" isn't, something can "matter" to someone even if its "useless" (can't be used for a specific task) because it makes them feel a certain way

This is the mindset I was talking about with the "larpers", they don't care if anything is actually happening or not, the idea of magic makes them feel a certain way about life (happy) and its fun hobby for them, they don't take the concept of magic "seriously"

"Matters" and "useful" are both equally "vague" and subjective, but I understand what you mean regarding the difference between something that makes someone feel good and something that actually has a positive effect on someone's life. Yes, there are "larpers" as you eloquently put it, but the vast majority of people here on this site are not role players but people actually looking to better their lives.

That's ironic, why isn't what you know "common knowledge" then? (I doubt most people know what you know)

It's not ironic. The reason why magic as discussed on this forum isn't mainstream is precisely due to the lack of scientifically provable and guaranteed results, combined with the esoteric nature of it. If you could do some "spell" to move a metal ball from point x to point y without any external stimulus with a guaranteed result every single time, then that would quickly be diseminated to the public, who could easily replicate it and then it would become common knowledge.

Well I'm going to keep looking, no reason to stop, I have a few decades left on this earth before I die anyways and what I'm looking for is worth finding even if it takes my entire life

I won't stop a stubborn octogenarian from looking for the hidden truth of telekenesis. You're free to do that. Just don't expect to find the answers here.

You are so full of presumptions and expectations. I hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[SkullTraill]

If I learn that it has to be dialed back far enough that my cost vs benefit analysis makes it pointless to me, I'll stop

Tell me one actual goal you have and I will tell you whether it is worth pursing magic as a means to achieve it.

 

[Pestifer Mundi]

Tell me one actual goal you have and I will tell you whether it is worth pursing magic as a means to achieve it.

TBH I find it kind of ironic to be speaking about something as grand as "MAGIC" or "OCCULTISM" and yet trying to impose limitations

I would assert that there are no limitations to the possibilities but instead limitations to our knowledge and the time required to acquire said knowledge

I have a lot of minor goals, here's one, moving a small object directly with just the intent of my mind (not using my body to move it)

But I also have a major goal, the goal that many occultists in the past hundreds of years before me have pursued, immortality

That's where my obsession with the philosopher stone comes from, the idea of "the elixir of life", the idea of creating something that defies the limitations of the world that we know of SO FAR

You might say the minor goal is just as impossible as the major goal, in fact that's what I'm expecting based on what you've said so far, but in my book these are still goals worth pursuing regardless. especially since occultists from the past who actually had access to "the writings of old" pursued these goals too, they didn't just give up and write these things off as impossible

Immortality has been something always sought after by occultists through the ages, so I find it funny that the occultists of the future have basically "lost their spirit" and given up completely. Who knows if an immortal already walks among us in this world because they succeeded. If I ever achieved such a feat I would obviously never make my existence known


@Alfher
The way you guys speak about magic, is as if "magic, has lost its magic" so to speak, there's no more passion when it comes to magic, there's no more drive to surpass limitations, only walls that one must accept

To me that is the antithesis of "the spirit of occultism"

Magic has lost its "spark", or to be more accurate, practitioners of magic today have lost the vigor and spark that those in the past had

That's to be expected when we live in this modern age of science and were speaking to eachother through computers, I can't really blame you guys tbh, it makes more sense to think they way you do, but I just can't do it

You say my expectations are too high, I say your passion and ambitions are too low

You have to see how ironic of a mindset you guys have when it comes to occultism, because if that mindset is carried to its logical conclusion, nobody would dabble in occultism to begin with, because the most realistic expectation to have when it comes to this modern technologically advanced scientific era, is that occultism is nonsense and none of it is real


The line you guys are drawing in the sand is a very ironic line

Its like - "I can heal my eyesight and exorcise demons (which shouldn't exist), but give up on creating fire, that's too unrealistic"

Everything mentioned so far is "unrealistic" to begin with so I have no reason to doubt that more is possible

I am grateful for all of the input but I think I'll end this back and forth here as our perspectives on the occult couldn't be any more different

If I place mental limitations on myself I wouldn't even bother pursuing this path to begin with, because I'd place my limitations even further behind the line you guys drawn, and assert that "none of it is possible"