A thought on learning

[Öwnchef]

There probably lies the difference between religion and magic. A magician knows the parts and uses them right. Mystics don't. They wait for assistance.

 

[Mider2009]

But please, try to do anything to your car parts without knowing what they're for, and you will see how wrong you are. You must know how something works to use it.

That’s fine but if you’re just gonna endlessly debate n discuss these things then who cares...not me, toodles

 

[Jarhyn]

i see no point in these pointless debates, i Can know a lot 9f stuff in books doesn’t make me an engineer

There's no debate here, just straight up discussion, mostly in fact coming from an engineer who applies and has applied these principles exactly for the sake of constructing learning systems.

If there is debate it's coming from folks who don't want to treat things academically.

You can read a lot without becoming an engineer, but you can't become an engineer without reading a lot.

Trying to engineer systems that literally have a mind of their own is difficult to say the least. Understanding what those minds tend to contain as you engineer on them is also important.

Going into it blind is not recommended.

 

[Mider2009]

There's no debate here, just straight up discussion, mostly in fact coming from an engineer who applies and has applied these principles exactly for the sake of constructing learning systems.

If there is debate it's coming from folks who don't want to treat things academically.

You can read a lot without becoming an engineer, but you can't become an engineer without reading a lot.

Trying to engineer systems that literally have a mind of their own is difficult to say the least. Understanding what those minds tend to contain as you engineer on them is also important.

Going into it blind is not recommended.

Again I don’t have an interest with discussing things with you, you seem like a bullshitter to me. I once gave you a source of info which you blew off

 

[Centh]

There probably lies the difference between religion and magic. A magician knows the parts and uses them right. Mystics don't. They wait for assistance.

Not even particularly true. Source: Sadhguru. Runs the Isha Foundation. Does a LOT of talks, and he describes himself as a mystic. According to what he says, he thinks "exporting one's responsibilities to the heavens" isn't a good way to live, and it wont necessarily bring results.

I mean, even in general matter-of-fact knowledge it can be seen in many religions that one's outcome is determined by what they put in. Buddhism and Jainism are ones that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Öwnchef]

How many Gurus do you know personally? I had enough of this liars.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I recall in my teens being told concepts like the Bible wasn't 100 percent true and hell wasn’t forever, I fought these concepts, I suppose that at the time I actively fought to remain in the religious indoctrination I was raised in.

it wasn’t till I was in my 30s that I began to slowly let go of the concept of eternal hell, the need for a savior, etc. the reason I mention this is because I recall a wise Rabbi say that if you study the sacred texts of the Kabbalah you won’t grasp it till you are meant too

supposedly there are spirits that guard the sacred Kabbalah from people learning them. Maybe because There is a danger of people learning the texts and misusing them. (read the story of The Four who entered the Pardes.)

This may be the reason as to why many cultures venerate the need for a teacher, guru, master. to gate keep...sometimes for good reasons sometimes for bad. I have noticed that in our modern times...the secrets that were hidden are slowly becoming revealed by great teachers like Sadhguru, Rabbi Ariel Bar Tzadok, etc

There is a balance in silence, either throwing pearls at swine, or keeping secrets between insiders. Most of us want the middle part. We don't want to be swine 9r elitists.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

You all need to stop making this academic...you will either understand something and be able to use it or not.

There is a need for a teacher and a student, even if the teacher is god.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

You may be able to use a system of magic, especially if your background fits it.
Regardie taught me Hebrew, not God, not my upbringing. But someone had to teach me a magickal language.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

I recall in my teens being told concepts like the Bible wasn't 100 percent true and hell wasn’t forever, I fought these concepts, I suppose that at the time I actively fought to remain in the religious indoctrination I was raised in.

it wasn’t till I was in my 30s that I began to slowly let go of the concept of eternal hell, the need for a savior, etc. the reason I mention this is because I recall a wise Rabbi say that if you study the sacred texts of the Kabbalah you won’t grasp it till you are meant too

supposedly there are spirits that guard the sacred Kabbalah from people learning them. Maybe because There is a danger of people learning the texts and misusing them. (read the story of The Four who entered the Pardes.)

This may be the reason as to why many cultures venerate the need for a teacher, guru, master. to gate keep...sometimes for good reasons sometimes for bad. I have noticed that in our modern times...the secrets that were hidden are slowly becoming revealed by great teachers like Sadhguru, Rabbi Ariel Bar Tzadok, etc

On the other hand....
Terrestrial spirits or fae nature spirits are probably closest to our vibratory rate.
Infernal spirits next.
Gods and goddesses next.
Celestial spirits next.

Hoodoo. Voudoo, or Teutonic (Norse -Kelt) or indeginous ways seem to be key.

 

[Centh]

How many Gurus do you know personally? I had enough of this liars.

So a Mystic says "do it yourself" when you said they wouldn't, and your only response is to doubt the validity of the practices this person you do not know.

Your practices are just as easily brought under scrutiny. I don't exactly trust most magicians or gurus on their word alone.

 

[Centh]

Not with Chasidim. When their ship gets in a fierce storm they all move under deck and let G_D sail the ship.
Don't get me wrong. If you have no idea what you are doing, you better keep your hands off. Most Americans do this with their shitboxes. If it stops moving they open the hood and kick at the tire. And wait for assistance.
I brought a Peugeot RV over to the US and drove it from the Keys to Alaska. Even when I only changed the exhaust pipe or made an oil and filter change they wanted to hire me on the spot. They looked at me as if I did some Voodoo.

I dont really know what this is trying to say. Cool story, though.

 

[Öwnchef]

I am in this for over fifty years. I know what a Mystic is. When I say they are of no worth then I saw it myself. That has nothing to do with you. It's just what I saw.

 

[Centh]

I am in this for over fifty years. I know what a Mystic is. When I say they are of no worth then I saw it myself. That has nothing to do with you. It's just what I saw.

So what are your greatest accomplishments?

 

[Öwnchef]

Lead over 30 disciples to High Magic. Most to Magus. Wrote and published a book. Finished two own different magical systems. There is more of course. Like crossing the Abyss.

 

[Mider2009]

Key to what...

 

[Mider2009]

You may be able to use a system of magic, especially if your background fits it.
Regardie taught me Hebrew, not God, not my upbringing. But someone had to teach me a magickal language.

Ok, what’s your point?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: A thought on learning
et al,

No one has to believe in "magic." But most religions have a component that goes beyond that which is explainable by man. The Dictionary Metaphysical Bible the Metaphysical piece the "Executive power of divine law." This is in direct contravention with a chunk of philosophy called the "Principle of Sufficient Reason" (PSR). PSR stands on the ground nothing happens at random (chance) or that is beyond explanation.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Centh]

Lead over 30 disciples to High Magic. Most to Magus. Wrote and published a book. Finished two own different magical systems. There is more of course. Like crossing the Abyss.

I meant tangible.

 

[Öwnchef]

I meant tangible.

Lol. Like a book?