[Help] has bdsm ever been interlaced with the occult or did i completely hallucinate this

[Butterfly Affect]

maybe there was one occult group that did but i genuinely can't remember

"whats with all the sexual questions" because sex is part of life and part of magic and i don't know if i'm actually seeing things that are really there and all search engines suck now. yes this is a serious question

 

[Firetree]

Do you mean Gerald Gardiner's 'symbolic' naked trying up and flogging ' stuff ' ?

 

[AbammonTheGreat]

maybe there was one occult group that did but i genuinely can't remember

"whats with all the sexual questions" because sex is part of life and part of magic and i don't know if i'm actually seeing things that are really there and all search engines suck now. yes this is a serious question

You mean OTO, Gardnerian Wicca, every Satanic order, O9A, New Age "Tantra" workshops, and Hellenic Recon? The entire reason I left orders, groups, and lodges was because without fail every single one was rampant with sexual abuse and was using the occult to justify whatever kinks and fetishes they were walking around with. Literally pick a group and youll find weirdos infusing BDSM in it claiming their kink is a part of their magic.

 

[Firetree]

Damn its boring down here then . I suffered a great lack of all that .... I searched here , I searched there ...... nuffin ! Then I realized all one had to do was go to a BDSM club !

 

[HoldAll]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

There's a copy on welib.org in case anyone is interested.

 

[A.Nox]

From my experience, it’s not that BDSM was a built-in component of occult systems — it’s more that certain groups attracted people who used the occult as an excuse to act out their kinks.
There were traditions where sexual work had a legitimate ritual purpose, but there were also plenty of groups where things went off the rails and turned into straight-up fetish environments dressed up as “magick”.

So yes, the overlap existed, but not because the magic required it — it happened because some circles got… let’s say, creatively undisciplined.
The important part is knowing the difference between actual esoteric technique and someone’s personal kink being marketed as a spiritual practice.

 

[AlfrunGrima]

it’s more that certain groups attracted people who used the occult as an excuse to act out their kinks.

Yeah, that was one reason why I left one group. The person who leaded the group fell in love with all to much women, except for his own wife.

 

[sahgwa]

Obviously if those are the kind of things you want to do on your own with willing partners sure, and you can make any action magickal. But having it as 'part of the curriculum' seems a bit weirdly specific.
The human sexual energy is extremely powerful, and can be channeled to amazing things. And also just wasted, but as we all know a lot of the time, this energy is manipulated and abused in others for power , control , or even politics, instead of explored and expressed in a creative way.
You can learn a lot from the shadow side, but only as a balancing act, I think.
People that focus only on that to the exclusion of all else, obviously generally have some kind of malfunction in their current being.

 

[A.Nox]

Yeah, that was one reason why I left one group. The person who leaded the group fell in love with all to much women, except for his own wife.

That was a solid decision on your part.
Unfortunately, this pattern shows up more often than people admit — a “leader” using the occult framework to play out personal issues instead of actually practicing magic.
Leaving a group like that isn’t weakness, it’s clarity.
It takes a lot of self-awareness to recognize when something has crossed a line and to walk away before it becomes even more damaging.

I’m glad you trusted your own judgement.

Too many people stay in situations that stopped being magical a long time ago.

 

[MorganBlack]

Wha!? Never!

(Except - cough - the Frosts ritually penetrating underage girls with a wooden dildo to "initiate" them into 'The Paganism'.)

Yeah, it's weird and annoying. You think you're joining a magical order, only to find out it's a swingers club with libertarian politics. (With some good folks doing magic on the side.)

 

[Firetree]

That was a solid decision on your part.
Unfortunately, this pattern shows up more often than people admit — a “leader” using the occult framework to play out personal issues instead of actually practicing magic.
Leaving a group like that isn’t weakness, it’s clarity.
It takes a lot of self-awareness to recognize when something has crossed a line and to walk away before it becomes even more damaging.

I’m glad you trusted your own judgement.

Too many people stay in situations that stopped being magical a long time ago.

An XGF of mine was in a group once described as ' The main occult teaching order in Australia ' ( a long time back, it was in some book on the occult ) . Apparently the leader ( who had promised to pass on his position to her ) had some unresolved karma relating to sexual inequality that needed to be 'ritually worked out ' - which involved her tying him to a cross ( which he just happened to have set up in his basement ) and leave him these for a few days, only feeding him dog food .

She thought he might be a masochist and asked my opinion on what she should do about it .

I suggested , if that was the case , she should tie him to the cross and NOT feed him his dog food .

It didnt eventuate ( and of course she never got to run the 'Order' ) .

 

[A.Nox]

An XGF of mine was in a group once described as ' The main occult teaching order in Australia ' ( a long time back, it was in some book on the occult ) . Apparently the leader ( who had promised to pass on his position to her ) had some unresolved karma relating to sexual inequality that needed to be 'ritually worked out ' - which involved her tying him to a cross ( which he just happened to have set up in his basement ) and leave him these for a few days, only feeding him dog food .

She thought he might be a masochist and asked my opinion on what she should do about it .

I suggested , if that was the case , she should tie him to the cross and NOT feed him his dog food .

It didnt eventuate ( and of course she never got to run the 'Order' ) .

I’m sitting here thinking: ‘I have a feeling you’ve seen much more of this than you’re willing to admit.’
Because every time someone drops a story like this, it sounds less like occult practice and more like a highlight reel from a lifetime of… creative encounters.

It’s that classic moment when you internally go: ‘…dear god, there’s more, isn’t there?’

Professionally speaking, of course.”

 

[Firetree]

Wha!? Never!

(Except - cough - the Frosts ritually penetrating underage girls with a wooden dildo to "initiate" them into 'The Paganism'.)

Yeah, it's weird and annoying. You think you're joining a magical order, only to find out it's a swingers club with libertarian politics. (With some good folks doing magic on the side.)

Wooden dildo ?

I got thrown into a Wiccan spring rite of something , years back . The HP was supposed to give me some phallic symbol and I was supposed to take it and chase the spring maiden around the circle . At the moment in the ritual he handed me a dick shaped 'soap-on-a-rope ' (ohhhh, very funny ! ... the members of that coven laughed at it . When it was time to chase the spring maiden ( some young innocent new to paganism girl that had been thrown into the rite as well ) ... yeah, well, I gave her a run for her money ! It was a big circle and she had a half lap on me . I was told that at the end of the chase I should sit opposite her , so I di, in her face virtually, panting, wild and lustfull , she was taken aback . HP came over and '' No no, sot opposite her on other side of the circle '' and led me away , with me looking back wildly at her .

Man the look on he face !

Later I was talking to her '' You know, traditionally, after doing that, we would go off into thse bushes there and I would **** your brains out ''

Thinking she would see the 'joke ploy' and laugh but no, she was ''Ohhhh ? Okay then .''

Ohhh dear the innocence . yes there was some validity to my statement but I wasnt going to advantage of her like that ... but what to do ? So , again trying to make a joke ; '' But I am little too old for you I think, here take this instead .'' and gave her the dick shaped soap-on-a-rope ... and she rook it ! and said ''Oh thank you ! '' and put it in her handbag .



And I will bet you , to this day, at that location there is now a coven going with her as the HPP and on her altar she has a 'wand ' once given to her in a ritual , by a 'senior magician ' .

Oh no, dont doubt it , its very possible in a place like

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Beyond Everything]

maybe there was one occult group that did but i genuinely can't remember

"whats with all the sexual questions" because sex is part of life and part of magic and i don't know if i'm actually seeing things that are really there and all search engines suck now. yes this is a serious question

Stephen Flowers wrote a book about it. Not really recommending it bc I recall it being pretty thin on detail and not really impressed with his work overall.

Rough sex in general can really amp up the limbic system. So there can be a value to raising instinctual fires to a great degree and then switching to a centered state. Like anything, it can be grist for the developmental mill.

 

[Firetree]

I’m sitting here thinking: ‘I have a feeling you’ve seen much more of this than you’re willing to admit.’
Because every time someone drops a story like this, it sounds less like occult practice and more like a highlight reel from a lifetime of… creative encounters.

It’s that classic moment when you internally go: ‘…dear god, there’s more, isn’t there?’

Professionally speaking, of course.”

Well, of course my curiosity was piqued ... I had to go along and join to see what the hell was going on there ... seriously , from the moment I arrived out the front .... right to the end of the whole months long episode, you would not believe what happened !

hang on, I will check to see if they are still extant ( I believe the 'Head' in question has passed on now )

AI check on status ... first of all it said no , no such thing .... stupid AI ... I had to tell it yes there was as I went to it and it is mentioned in an occult book ... then AI 'remembered ' OHHHHH THAT Golden Pheonix ! (it tried to tell me it was a Chinese restaurant )

Spoiler

....
No, it was an occult group , I went to it and it was featured in a book on the occult as australias oldest running magical order

'' Ah, that clarifies it perfectly! You are likely thinking of the
Order of the Golden Phoenix (O.G.P.), also known by its Latin initials O.P.A..
The group is famously documented in the seminal book "

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

" (1980) by

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, where it was indeed described as a significant and long-running magical order in the Sydney occult scene.
According to historical accounts:

• Founder: The order was led by Barry Salkilld (known within the group as Frater C.D.), who served as its Imperator.
• Focus: It was a ceremonial magic group that, at one point, broke with traditional
  Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
  attributions regarding elemental tools, preferring different elemental correspondences for the wand and dagger.
• Current Status: Most contemporary researchers and former members of the Sydney occult community describe the original Order of the Golden Phoenix as now-defunct. It was highly active through the 1970s and 80s, but it appears to have faded or transitioned into more private, unadvertised circles after the passing or retirement of its key founders.

While the "original" public-facing order is no longer active, its legacy remains a cornerstone of Australian occult history

Okay its defunct , so I can probably reveal its secrets ... if ya want a further hilarious disclosure

 

[A.Nox]

Well, of course my curiosity was piqued ... I had to go along and join to see what the hell was going on there ... seriously , from the moment I arrived out the front .... right to the end of the whole months long episode, you would not believe what happened !

hang on, I will check to see if they are still extant ( I believe the 'Head' in question has passed on now )

AI check on status ... first of all it said no , no such thing .... stupid AI ... I had to tell it yes there was as I went to it and it is mentioned in an occult book ... then AI 'remembered ' OHHHHH THAT Golden Pheonix ! (it tried to tell me it was a Chinese restaurant )

Spoiler

....
No, it was an occult group , I went to it and it was featured in a book on the occult as australias oldest running magical order

'' Ah, that clarifies it perfectly! You are likely thinking of the
Order of the Golden Phoenix (O.G.P.), also known by its Latin initials O.P.A..
The group is famously documented in the seminal book "

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

" (1980) by

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, where it was indeed described as a significant and long-running magical order in the Sydney occult scene.
According to historical accounts:

• Founder: The order was led by Barry Salkilld (known within the group as Frater C.D.), who served as its Imperator.
• Focus: It was a ceremonial magic group that, at one point, broke with traditional
  Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
  attributions regarding elemental tools, preferring different elemental correspondences for the wand and dagger.
• Current Status: Most contemporary researchers and former members of the Sydney occult community describe the original Order of the Golden Phoenix as now-defunct. It was highly active through the 1970s and 80s, but it appears to have faded or transitioned into more private, unadvertised circles after the passing or retirement of its key founders.

While the "original" public-facing order is no longer active, its legacy remains a cornerstone of Australian occult history

Okay its defunct , so I can probably reveal its secrets ... if ya want a further hilarious disclosure

Of course we want more — you can’t drop a teaser like that and expect us to walk away

 

[Firetree]

Of course we want more — you can’t drop a teaser like that and expect us to walk away

Where do I put it ( I have already been 'tied to a cross and fed dog food ' for going 'off topic' ) ?

 

[A.Nox]

Where do I put it ( I have already been 'tied to a cross and fed dog food ' for going 'off topic' ) ?

Just drop it here, Firetree — we’ll risk the dog food together

 

[Butterfly Affect]

I think I had some specific occult group in my mind and I got into a weird frenzy trying to remember whatever it was. Could have just been Thelema, or maybe a Satanist org. Still, I didn't know there was so many of these...