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If you have a problem with someone, as in to say a practical issue, like some creep stalking your wife or child, or something like an asshole coworker or bully, who'd actually be hurting you, or your reputation, in ways that has real effect, how do you deal with them magically if you're not using a curse or hex?
I also think law enforcement is a joke! I mean, in my country, whether you are a thief, a rapist, or a murderer, it doesn't matter. The only thing matter is whether your daddy has enough money, power, and connections; if he has, then you can fu*cking do whatever you want.
And I've seen this dude @Durward, going around these kinds of threads, preaching how you should leave it to the police! I mean, dude, do you even have any fucking idea that in some countries (including America), police are a joke! I mean, what kind of justice is to kill civilians using our own fucking tax money to buy those bullets used to kill us (Yeah, it happens to our country, more often)? So no, I'm not giving any authority to any law enforcement or police, in something like protecting myself if I can take matters into my own hands. And no, I need no preaching from you, dude @Durward
You can't. You have no authority. Instead, invoke divine justice. But be careful. Bearing false witness is a crime, and divine justice will strike the caster in that case.
One option: Walk the path of "Father Abraham": Those who bless you will be blessed. Those who curse you will be cursed.
ואברכה מברכיך ומקללך אאר ונברכו בך כל משפחת האדמה׃
And I will bless those who bless you, and curse him who curses you; and in you shall all families of the earth be blessed.
It wasnt peoples practices and interests I was commenting on but the insistence that we must all be doing it for the same reasons ;
'' The only reason anyone is even on this forum is because we want to use magic for our own personal reasons to manipulate the world in ways we wouldn't otherwise be able to .''
( note ; as well , 'for our own ' is a giveaway ... ' for their own ' ie it was a projection . )
I also think law enforcement is a joke! I mean, in my country, whether you are a thief, a rapist, or a murderer, it doesn't matter. The only thing matter is whether your daddy has enough money, power, and connections; if he has, then you can fu*cking do whatever you want.
And I've seen this dude @Durward, going around these kinds of threads, preaching how you should leave it to the police! I mean, dude, do you even have any fucking idea that in some countries (including America), police are a joke! I mean, what kind of justice is to kill civilians using our own fucking tax money to buy those bullets used to kill us (Yeah, it happens to our country, more often)? So no, I'm not giving any authority to any law enforcement or police, in something like protecting myself if I can take matters into my own hands. And no, I need no preaching from you, dude @Durward
@hussainsirat577
Go ahead and foam at the mouth and rant and rave about things.
That alone will burn up all your energy and you won't be able to do much of anything anyway... Hussain... not a great look for you, but likely normal for wherever it is you crawled out from. Your whining about police and how things operate in your backwoods zone are showing how immature and ignorant you are, to me. Remember, opinion counts, and free speech. You get to rant and throw shit at me, guess what happens? You gonna run to mommy and whine about it?
I also need no preaching from you, dude. Your language gives you away as a punk to me. Who cares what you think? Not me. You are just another victim of the brainwashing and mind control, and lashing out, being a bully, etc. If you want to get back to the subject matter, throwing magical curses is not something for hothead punks to be playing with. If you can't control yourself, you can't control magic. All that attempt will do is blow up in your own face, and that would then be deserved. Again, in my opinion. Have your meltdown somewhere else. If you don't want to be cursed, and would lash out at anyone using magic on you, then you have no right to use magic on anyone else. Again, IMHO. If you think this is some free-for-all, swing away dude, swing away. This isn't some one-way Harry Pothead world where you get to do things and have all the right to do so, and nobody else can do the same thing to you.That you took it all so personal, and mentioned me specifically, shows you already feel bad and guilty, or spoken to, when I mention things like psychopaths and sociopaths. Get some therapy. Should I tell your mommy on you?
This is why we have laws, and why we enforce them. In your imaginary world, likely ruled by Abrahamic cult people, it sounds more like some movie plot, and I highly doubt you are anything but an angry and frustrated child that can't magic their way out of a wet paper bag. But oh! Let the insults fly and act like a jerk to me for MY OPINION. Exactly why we can't let the religious freaks control governments or have any powers. Nothing but hysterical vigilante nonsense, bullies, punks, and so magic is not available to you. So go cry somewhere else where someone cares.
Now go get your diapers changed and keep trying to use your hatred to justify horrible behavior and threats. You are a poser to me, my opinion again. Throw some curses, see what happens. I'm waiting.
@Digiquo
LMFAO, that is pretty narrow and shows you obviously haven't bothered to read many threads or look at the many subjects here. What planet are you visiting from?
What makes you think a good use of magic is cursing people, and if so, what makes you think others wouldn't return the favor and are more powerful than you? Some magical pissing contest is such a great waste, and it is a good thing NONE of you are capable enough.
@hussainsirat577
Go ahead and foam at the mouth and rant and rave about things.
That alone will burn up all your energy and you won't be able to do much of anything anyway... Hussain... not a great look for you, but likely normal for wherever it is you crawled out from. Your whining about police and how things operate in your backwoods zone are showing how immature and ignorant you are, to me. Remember, opinion counts, and free speech. You get to rant and throw shit at me, guess what happens? You gonna run to mommy and whine about it?
I also need no preaching from you, dude. Your language gives you away as a punk to me. Who cares what you think? Not me. You are just another victim of the brainwashing and mind control, and lashing out, being a bully, etc. If you want to get back to the subject matter, throwing magical curses is not something for hothead punks to be playing with. If you can't control yourself, you can't control magic. All that attempt will do is blow up in your own face, and that would then be deserved. Again, in my opinion. Have your meltdown somewhere else. If you don't want to be cursed, and would lash out at anyone using magic on you, then you have no right to use magic on anyone else. Again, IMHO. If you think this is some free-for-all, swing away dude, swing away. This isn't some one-way Harry Pothead world where you get to do things and have all the right to do so, and nobody else can do the same thing to you.That you took it all so personal, and mentioned me specifically, shows you already feel bad and guilty, or spoken to, when I mention things like psychopaths and sociopaths. Get some therapy. Should I tell your mommy on you?
This is why we have laws, and why we enforce them. In your imaginary world, likely ruled by Abrahamic cult people, it sounds more like some movie plot, and I highly doubt you are anything but an angry and frustrated child that can't magic their way out of a wet paper bag. But oh! Let the insults fly and act like a jerk to me for MY OPINION. Exactly why we can't let the religious freaks control governments or have any powers. Nothing but hysterical vigilante nonsense, bullies, punks, and so magic is not available to you. So go cry somewhere else where someone cares.
Now go get your diapers changed and keep trying to use your hatred to justify horrible behavior and threats. You are a poser to me, my opinion again. Throw some curses, see what happens. I'm waiting.
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@Digiquo
LMFAO, that is pretty narrow and shows you obviously haven't bothered to read many threads or look at the many subjects here. What planet are you visiting from?
What makes you think a good use of magic is cursing people, and if so, what makes you think others wouldn't return the favor and are more powerful than you? Some magical pissing contest is such a great waste, and it is a good thing NONE of you are capable enough.
What would you do if a person abused your child and got away with it? Or a stranger murdered your mother and the police couldn't catch them? As somebody with magic at their disposal... would you use it?
Yep yep, Signal boosting Abammon's and FireBorn's take. There's a place for fighting fire with fire , but like money and sex, cursing is a another very fraught area, one clustered around warfare and the justified use of violence. As it should be. You are not supposed to all be okay with it.
Geburah / Mars has always correctly been seen as a morally fraught area because of its finality. It "is" on the Pillar of Severity in the Kabbalistic world-vision. In Vodou, the warrior lwa Ogou Feray of the fierce Nago nation is the "point," in liminal space, the "pwen" that pivots into the wrathful and hot Petwo nation. Mars, iron, steel, and violence can be the beginning of the descent into "Hell," especially when paired with the setter of limits, Saturn.
But I would not be the sorcerer I am today without having to survive in psychopathic corporate environments. Aside from being a service magician for the drug cartels, I imagine, there's no other place where you are required to hunt for your own dinner and deal with the big predators.
But destruction of one's enemies over the long haul can be equally terrifying, if only for what you have become. It is very easy to become extremely world-weary. If you have any sense of compassion for others, you will question what you have done and any cascade effects. The effect you have brought onto their families.
We are not supposed to be "okay" with violence. It's a liminal space. Warfare is the Blood Meridian of Texas writer Cormac McCarthy. Unless you are a total psychopath it's very easy to become weary of the world's embrace of violence, and then, like all things, you might seek something bigger and more inclusive.
Year ago I had to give up paying attention to the war god of Thelema (as archetype or literal being, or both. Take your pick. ). It was giving me anger issues. I'm a Folk Catholic because it helps me be calm, compassionate and forgiving. (Again personal visions there, I won't go into.). You become what you pay attention to.
Miguel Connor and the Gnostics over at Aeon Byte speak with much wisdom at a certain level of consciousness, that should be noted in our awareness of the dynamic the world, and slotted, imho, into a much smaller place in our sense of the universe, without letting it take over.
War is God (How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Dark Archetype)
A palliative followup to my post on the thread about cursing found here: https://wizardforums.com/threads/if-not-curses-then-what.19680/post-125375 This bit of inspired media from Miguel Connor and the Gnostics over at Aeon Byte , for context, as a non-denominational invocation of Sophia /...
What would you do if a person abused your child and got away with it? Or a stranger murdered your mother and the police couldn't catch them? As somebody with magic at their disposal... would you use it?
I went that route already, and my choice was to join law enforcement and think of all people who need justice, not just your own personal family or your bruised ego problems. There is a much bigger problem out there, and personal vendettas create a circle of feuds and hate, division and chaos. Not the right path, over.
who'd actually be hurting you, or your reputation, in ways that has real effect, how do you deal with them magically if you're not using a curse or hex?
“I will interpret every phenomenon as a particular dealing of God with my soul”
Understanding oneself's own nature helps with response.
Inquiring "What are the factors contributing to the situation?" "How can those be magickally engaged?" "What's the goal here?" "Is there a larger frame to view this in?" "How is recurrence preventable?" "How can this benefit the universe?"
Also there is no single magickal response to every situation since what could be suitable for one person at a particular time may not for another person in a different time and place. For example, a situation may require withdrawing presence, the same at another time requires increasing. Neither is a curse. Though an instigator may interpret it as a curse since they're not getting what they want.
I've been called by belligerents the most vile person they've ever encountered when I've only not given them what they want.
Damn, Durward. For the sake of argument let's define "evil" as "the initiation of violence. " I have never seen Abammon even hint initiation of violence (being evil) was acceptable.
Respect to law enforcement and soldiers, but you are making the Max Weber-ite argument that only state-sanctioned violence is legitimate? While I think violence should be mitigated (an even bigger discussion) , in your view, do you not make space for self-defense? What if someone comes at you with a knife? Or a checkbook? Do we you have a right to stop them, if you can?
Most ethical frameworks, and many pacifist traditions, distinguish between aggression and defense. Even in highly regulated societies self-defense, the protection of innocents is understood, along with the "natural right," to preserve one’s own life, is generally viewed as preceding the law. If someone comes at you with a knife, the ethical response is usually governed by proportionality - using the minimum force necessary to neutralize the threat.
In my case, I was the one person who had the power to remove a evil executive at a famous game publisher. In that world it is profit and power makes power. . so I am playing by their own rules. Live by the sword, die by the sword. .Now, I did not kill them, as a younger me would have. I only "killed" their job and their power to hurt others by destroying their career. Not sure if that is more merciful, but I feel no sense of moral evil here.
Being wolf brings you closer to being an animal, and resorting ones humanity and compassion is required. Being wolf all the time only bring doom to your family ans community. You become what you conjure so you have to ask if that is what you wish to be.
I went that route already, and my choice was to join law enforcement and think of all people who need justice, not just your own personal family or your bruised ego problems.
Interesting framing. Why is his solution for justice coming from a 'bruised ego problem' and yours somehow elevated because you were thinking of others? Shouldn't their need for justice be judged as the same?
Your stuff is shit, my shit is stuff. Framing is everything.
I do not know what traditions many speak from here but similar disagreement over legitimate use of violence is what in the past has placed me in conflict with white light New Agers.
(... back in the 1990's before I learned to not include them - who all apparently think we should let evil multiply, or that evil even exists. How they hold both ideas in their fuzzy brains and still make moral pronouncements for everybody, I have no idea.)
Conversely, it's ideological opposite, the whole recent white brujeria thing of "cursing is just my culture" is equally absurd. Violence is nothing to be proud of.
In New World traditions a line is usually drawn between what is "hot" (violence, anger, chaotic, wrathful or "unclean" magic) - and what is "cool " (peace, harmony, grace, kindness, compassion, community, balance). Reintegration is the process of moving an individual from a "hot" state back to a "cool" one. Folk Catholicism has rituals of atonement, as do many Indigenous North American cultures. Violence is seen as a form of spiritual pollution that affects the entire tribe. European traditions of restoring "the humors" also fits here.
New World Folk Catholicism ( which blends with Brujeria / witchcraft ) treats bringing spiritual harm to others as a stain on the soul that requires both physical and spiritual cleansing to rstore right relation. Post ceremony cleansing baths are a big deal here. In many folk traditions, once the "work" the trabajo is done, the individual might also host or participate in a communal meal or a velacion (vigil). Eating together is the sign that the poison has been removed and the individual is no longer "spiritually contagious."
The bigger point, in these traditionsa violence is not removed from the world-vision , ) which usually just means it sneaks in the back door, but is contained. But that also does not mean it is nothign but "fraught," as I have suggested above.
To answer OP’s question, it ultimately depends on the situation. But if someone is actively trying to harm you or your loved ones, simply avoiding curses or hexes is not a good response on its own.
I recently had someone curse me on behalf of another person. They justified it based on assumptions rather than facts. And no, I’m not going to waste time filing a police report against two people who don’t even live in my area, trying to convince law enforcement that they “harmed” me through occult means.
The person who sent the working called on their closest demons to carry it out. It didn’t land on my end, but that detail alone told me enough. I responded by sending the working back to its source.
I’m the one being harmed in this situation. Even if the curse didn’t reach me at all, that doesn’t mean I’m going to sit back and take it. If someone initiates harm, I’m entitled to respond.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
A curse is a tool, nothing more. A tool that doesn't even necessarily need to be deployed, if one has confidence in wielding it. Think of a huge bald MMA champ walking around- you're going to fuck with him? He doesn't need to beat up anyone in front of you to make you wary of him. Magick is indeed a lot more subtle, but if you're confident in your ability to curse someone it'll change the way you carry yourself around other people, acting as a subtle warning to them that trying to fuck you over will end poorly for them.
To answer OP more directly- you asked how would I deal with it magically IF I didn't use a curse or a hex, which is a tricky question since I'd define anything that brings harm to target as malefica (or black magick, or a curse more broadly). So, I'd petition a god, angel or a saint for help. They might still work in a negative way for the person harassing me (good is not necessarily nice), which IMHO would technically fall under a curse but a lot of practitioners would disagree because of different intent behind it (protection vs intending direct harm), and because you're going through more "divine" channels.
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