LP / RP - Faith compatibility

[Nobody]

Hello everybody,

As a novice in the occult disciplines, I have some questions about the compatibility of beliefs and magical paths. I am gradually becoming aware of the possible paths, namely the left and the right.

My questions will probably make some of you smile. The objective is to learn and I wanted to submit two of them related to this subject:

I) Is it possible to follow the left-hand path, while maintaining a faith (whatever it may be), without worshipping a demonic entity? Ex: practicing Solomonic ceremonial magic.
II) Is working with demons for various knowledge-related reasons considered incompatible with the Judeo-Christian ways?

Thank you in advance for your answers,

N

 

[Ancient]

I). Yes, entirely! Many even choose not to be confined to the label of LHP or RHP and just do whatever calls to them or works for them. To hell with your social conditioning! Rules are imaginary anyway.

I’ll leave question II for someone else, as I would simply provide the above answer.

 

[Nobody]

I'm not a fan of path labelling either - but it's a recurrence I notice when I do research. Notions of rules are ultimately quite arbitrary in human societies, I quite agree. That said, not being enlightened, I was wondering if this had any bearing on the meta/divine nature.

A lot of the information seems to be influenced by a "New Age" approach tending to create a form of distortion in learning. So I am often faced with everything and its opposite.

 

[Lazarus]

As for your second question, I would say it depends on the “pantheon” of demons you’re working with. For example, all the goetic /Solomonic demons strictly ARE Judeo-Christian.

 

[stalkinghyena]

II) Is working with demons for various knowledge-related reasons considered incompatible with the Judeo-Christian ways?

From the strict exoteric viewpoint, the general answer would be "no" because at best one is courting delusion and at worst one is tempting God by luring the Devil. From this POV, the rites of grimoires ape the rites of religion and are blasphemous. A holder of this position might ask warningly that if you truly are faithful, then why would you not trust God to give you His approved knowledge under the conditions of accepted doctrines?

In the esoteric shadows of the Judeo-Christian spectrum, it gets more murky. You can conjure (meaning command) demons, yes, but only in the service of God and even then under only the most strict and paranoid conditions, like taming a wild animal. This is still inherently risky because you are exposing yourself to all sorts of wiles and temptations, so you must be clean and pure as possible to go down that path. This might seem contradictory given the sinful spheres of operations over which these spirits preside. However, mastery and domination of these beings through command can equate to a transcendental path which further promotes a type of deifying self-empowerment that would enable one to do God's work in this fallen world.
Of course, such an attitude inevitably courts charges of heresy and presumption from the exoteric no matter what the excuse, so it's a little like setting oneself between a rock and a hard place in terms of the dominant aspect of the J-C spectrum.

A lot of the information seems to be influenced by a "New Age" approach tending to create a form of distortion in learning.

"Milk for babes and meat for the strong," so the saying goes. New Age consumer products often appeal to the the natural instinct that many people have to only seek for and listen to what soothes them. The "distortion" is a hypnosis, but one should never underestimate what it can drive people to do.

So I am often faced with everything and its opposite.

That pretty much sums up the occult in general. Happy seeking!

 

[Roma]

By some accounts the regulation of inner initiations for humans in this solar system is managed by a Sirian group. It seems that the LHP has a limit preventing the initiate from controlling its soul body (neschama).

Thus the LHP practitioner may learn to control its physical-etheric body, emotional body and lower mental body - but not its higher mental body (neschama) nor its buddhic/heart body

Does observation support that proposition?

 

[Nobody]

From the strict exoteric viewpoint, the general answer would be "no" because at best one is courting delusion and at worst one is tempting God by luring the Devil. From this POV, the rites of grimoires ape the rites of religion and are blasphemous. A holder of this position might ask warningly that if you truly are faithful, then why would you not trust God to give you His approved knowledge under the conditions of accepted doctrines?

In the esoteric shadows of the Judeo-Christian spectrum, it gets more murky. You can conjure (meaning command) demons, yes, but only in the service of God and even then under only the most strict and paranoid conditions, like taming a wild animal. This is still inherently risky because you are exposing yourself to all sorts of wiles and temptations, so you must be clean and pure as possible to go down that path. This might seem contradictory given the sinful spheres of operations over which these spirits preside. However, mastery and domination of these beings through command can equate to a transcendental path which further promotes a type of deifying self-empowerment that would enable one to do God's work in this fallen world.
Of course, such an attitude inevitably courts charges of heresy and presumption from the exoteric no matter what the excuse, so it's a little like setting oneself between a rock and a hard place in terms of the dominant aspect of the J-C spectrum.

If the motives for using magic(k) are in the pursuit of knowledge that could benefit others, is this also considered blasphemous? "A holder of this position" could be biased by their faith or by the result of external conditioning by their environment on the subject. I understand, however, that the connotation of "demons" may frighten some believers. Wouldn't the blasphemy lie more in the motivations (which can be harmful, of course) to use magic(k) than in its use itself?

It is therefore difficult but not impossible for a human being to use it without going against the will of God, if I understand correctly. The notion of purity is strictly arbitrary and therefore variable according to the individual. If we cultivate virtue and chase away vice, the external gaze ultimately remains the psychological bulwark that makes us doubt our deepest will to resort to it. If God is merciful, perhaps He will be able to understand and even forgive the individual who decides to take this path. If one assumes that free will exists and comes into play, then the judgment would be based on the underlying motives for using these practices and not on the practice itself. Using such tools to disguise God's will or to attempt to substitute it could indeed be debated.

"Milk for babes and meat for the strong," so the saying goes. New Age consumer products often appeal to the the natural instinct that many people have to only seek for and listen to what soothes them. The "distortion" is a hypnosis, but one should never underestimate what it can drive people to do.

Manly P. Hall said that wisdom is not about seeing things... but rather seeing through them. I will keep this in mind so as not to fall into the fallacious traps.

 

[Amur]

Belief in self is an absolöute must for everyone, without it you can not even have Divine belief.

Belief without logic is dumber than belief without deeds.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Hello everybody,

As a novice in the occult disciplines, I have some questions about the compatibility of beliefs and magical paths. I am gradually becoming aware of the possible paths, namely the left and the right.

My questions will probably make some of you smile. The objective is to learn and I wanted to submit two of them related to this subject:

I) Is it possible to follow the left-hand path, while maintaining a faith (whatever it may be), without worshipping a demonic entity? Ex: practicing Solomonic ceremonial magic.
II) Is working with demons for various knowledge-related reasons considered incompatible with the Judeo-Christian ways?

Thank you in advance for your answers,

N

I'm going to be frank with you - I do not know.
However, here are my answers:
1. The LHP is devoted to self mastery, to become deified. I am not so sure that any LHP practitioner lasts long once contact has been made regularly (ie a pact). However, there have been Golden Dawn and OTO adepts who worked with Goetia. The question is what was the cost for them, and that is the prime question you should keep in mind. The more you are immersed in darkness, the more you become ensnared in darkness thinking you're free when you are not nor ever will be again.
2. Yes, working with demons is incompatible with Judeo-Christianity. Unless you endeavor to control demons as Solomon did. However, for all the wisdom he had, he fell due to the Seven Sisters. How much more wisdom do you have?

Concentrate on primary magic principles, and pick a system to work and master that system first.

 

[Amur]

King Solomon is burning in hell for as long as magick exists. It is forbidden to use magick to capture beings that are on the unholy side that have a Punishment put by God, and it is forbidden to control them.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Well, all of us here will be there forever by that reasoning. Is that what we all truly want for ourselves and each other?

 

[stalkinghyena]

If God is merciful, perhaps He will be able to understand and even forgive the individual who decides to take this path.

I hope so. Especially in my case!

 

[Nobody]

I am not so sure that any LHP practitioner lasts long once contact has been made regularly (ie a pact).

What do you mean by "lasts long once a contact has been made regularly" ?

Yes, working with demons is incompatible with Judeo-Christianity. Unless you endeavor to control demons as Solomon did.

So capturing them for purely learning purposes (e.g. asking questions) is tolerated in traditional religions?

Another question: Is it possible to get something from a demon without it being qualified as a pact? I have read, but I could be wrong, that it is possible to get something from them in exchange for an offering. This seems to be different from a pact.

Post automatically merged: Jan 7, 2023

It is forbidden to use magick to capture beings that are on the unholy side that have a Punishment put by God, and it is forbidden to control them.

Some people argue that Solomon's ceremonial techniques are compatible with the faith because the capture of these is an apparently tolerated practice. I have found that some individuals work with the Goetia but at the same time retain a faith of their own related to a religion such as Judaism or Christianity. Could you please elaborate further? Thank you.

 

[Roma]

It may be of interest that there appears no archeological evidence for the kingdom of Solomon the Great, but much evidence for that of Suleiman the Magnificient.

Indeed the Song of Solomon was not named that until the existence of Suleiman the Magnificient.

Oddly enough Solomon and Suleiman have the same personal characteristics.

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[Diluculo_DelFuego]

What do you mean by "lasts long once a contact has been made regularly" ?




So capturing them for purely learning purposes (e.g. asking questions) is tolerated in traditional religions?

Another question: Is it possible to get something from a demon without it being qualified as a pact? I have read, but I could be wrong, that it is possible to get something from them in exchange for an offering. This seems to be different from a pact.

Post automatically merged: Jan 7, 2023

Some people argue that Solomon's ceremonial techniques are compatible with the faith because the capture of these is an apparently tolerated practice. I have found that some individuals work with the Goetia but at the same time retain a faith of their own related to a religion such as Judaism or Christianity. Could you please elaborate further? Thank you.

Lasts long in not returning out of the LHP. The Testament of Solomon is a story of the rise and fall of Solomon - who originally summoned Asmodeusu to find out why he was taking milk money from a child, bound him and his demons and forced them to build the temple. He was lured by the seven sisters and fell from grace.

 

[Amur]

What do you mean by "lasts long once a contact has been made regularly" ?




So capturing them for purely learning purposes (e.g. asking questions) is tolerated in traditional religions?

Another question: Is it possible to get something from a demon without it being qualified as a pact? I have read, but I could be wrong, that it is possible to get something from them in exchange for an offering. This seems to be different from a pact.

Post automatically merged: Jan 7, 2023

Some people argue that Solomon's ceremonial techniques are compatible with the faith because the capture of these is an apparently tolerated practice. I have found that some individuals work with the Goetia but at the same time retain a faith of their own related to a religion such as Judaism or Christianity. Could you please elaborate further? Thank you.

I don't know, will need to check this out. Unholy beings are punished beings that are inside their punishment by God. That's why it's forbidden to use holy Light against them if they are not attacking you, because they will hate you for it.

Just asked some Christians about Solomon and they did say that he was friendly to the demonic beings, as have I been. So he is not fried. But when dealing with the negative beings it is very necessary to keep calm and be friendly to them.

Post automatically merged: Jan 8, 2023

I don't know, will need to check this out. Unholy beings are punished beings that are inside their punishment by God. That's why it's forbidden to use holy Light against them if they are not attacking you, because they will hate you for it.

Just asked some Christians about Solomon and they did say that he was friendly to the demonic beings, as have I been. So he is not fried. But when dealing with the negative beings it is very necessary to keep calm and be friendly to them.

Dead christians I mean, that are not materially reincarnated.

 

[Bandaboy]

My understanding is that right hand denotes mercy and left hand denotes punishment. The same God that is merciful is also ready to punish you at a moments notice. Rather than seeing them as different paths, how about accepting them as part of just one body?

 

[Roma]

How do we know that God has only two hands?

Various Hindu gods have more.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

It's spelled out in literature about him, the left hand is much like activities of the LHP, and his right hand commands the angles and mankind.
This is clearly shown in literature such as the Sepher Yetzirah, Zohar, Tanakh, etc.

Post automatically merged: Jan 9, 2023

My understanding is that right hand denotes mercy and left hand denotes punishment. The same God that is merciful is also ready to punish you at a moments notice. Rather than seeing them as different paths, how about accepting them as part of just one body?

Great point.

 

[Roma]

I prefer a God with many hands, otherwise I might have to queue for help

Many hands allows parallel processing