Making a pact

[Mars]

How does one know that the pact is successful? Or has been accepted?

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Use tarot or a pendulum.

 

[Roma]

My experience with a pendulum indicates that it is important to make contact with an honest spirit that knows the answers.

For example, often the default pendulum spirit is the sacral chakra spirit of the human. Its knowledge/experience is largely internal to the human's biology. It may have useful views on a place to live but is unlikely to know much about investments

Some spirits when asked about things of which they are ignorant, do not wish to disappoint and will make up answers

If the human is too keen on particular answers, many spirits will provide those to keep the human happy

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

There is also geomancy and i-ching.
I also think that if it comes to pass through no effort of your own, then it was accepted.

 

[Mannimarco]

you talk like you went through it, is that right?

Yes and no. I haven’t made any traditional pacts or oaths, mostly because when I was working with entities into that sort of thing, the relationship would go sour before we got to that stage. The norse and the qliphoth, specifically. Nowdays if an entity wants to work with me, I have a simple agreement they have to agree to, basically to treat me how I want to be treated, and help me with whatever they do. In return I burn a stick of incense for them every week that I'm able to do so. It's a kind of a pact I suppose.

 

[Mars]

Yes and no. I haven’t made any traditional pacts or oaths, mostly because when I was working with entities into that sort of thing, the relationship would go sour before we got to that stage. The norse and the qliphoth, specifically. Nowdays if an entity wants to work with me, I have a simple agreement they have to agree to, basically to treat me how I want to be treated, and help me with whatever they do. In return I burn a stick of incense for them every week that I'm able to do so. It's a kind of a pact I suppose.

Huh? Just a stick of incense? That seems rather miniscule tbh. And in return they do whatever you want?? What entities? How did they present themselves? How do you converse or "talk" with them?

 

[Mannimarco]

Huh? Just a stick of incense? That seems rather miniscule tbh. And in return they do whatever you want?? What entities? How did they present themselves? How do you converse or "talk" with them?

Of course they don't do "whatever I want", as I said, they help me with whatever it is they do. If they are healers and I'm doing a healing spell, I call on them and they boost it. We co create together.

As to the incense being miniscule, if I was asking for something larger, of course I would offer much more. I have done that when entities offered to help with something, but i was way to busy to do spell myself, so we would negotiate on a large incense offering after they did the job themselves.

Entities have a purpose, and accomplishing that purpose has some kind of reward in itself, I'm not entirely clear on how it works but it does. Also, human time and attention are inherently valuable somehow. If an entity is associated with a system or current of magick, whenever someone practices that magick, it is strengthened. So they benefit again. These reasons are why I think many pacts are ridiculously imbalanced in favor of the entity, and they are just taking advantage of people, and farming huge offerings out of them.

Now if someone is going to the entity, large offerings might be necessary to get thier attention at all, but I have never had that work out anyway.

I'm not naming the entities I'm working with, but they aren't popular or well known.

They have presented themselves to me in meditation, through one of my familiar/guardian spirits. I communicate with spirits clairvoyantly like anyone else.

 

[pixel_fortune]

Just a stick of incense? That seems rather miniscule tbh.

If you hire a cab to drive you 100 km, it'll cost you hundreds of dollars

If you ask a friend (and they're in a position to help) they'll do it for just the money to cover petrol/gas. So: building a relationship helps

Often a neighbour will help you for a token gift - a bottle of wine or a case of beer that it isn't technically that valuable but says "hey I appreciated that, I don't take it for granted" (which is how I view offerings like incense). It's also because they see you as part of their community. People in the same profession will help each other out for the same reason, that perceived sense of kinship. Possibly spirits see magicians as members of their community, particularly if they do things that show a participatory attitude, such as offerings.

I think some people who've had really negative life experiences (and/or have depression or anxiety, which gives one a negative bias) have a badly warped sense of how willing other people are to help each other. They have a negatively biased view of humans that they apply to spirits, but it's a distortion filter.

People are just not that ultra transactional, for the most part. They like helping each other where they can, and especially when it's in line with their personal strengths and skills. SOME people are coldly transactional, but it's fair to assume that the spirits we interact with are, by definition, the kind who don't mind doing this sort of thing.

(Also: when you ask someone a favour that plays to their strengths, it's a much smaller favour for them than it would be for you. Like a locksmith has the tools to open a locked door in 30 seconds, it's trivial for them, whereas if you asked me for help, it'd be a huge favour because I'd have to track down the right tools and learn how to use them)

The main thing people care about is gratitude and sincere appreciation. If you ask me for help and behave sincerely grateful for it, I'll feel good and want to help again. If you ask me for help and then act like you're the one doing ME a favour, or start treating me like your servant, I won't help a second time.

Incense is a way of expressing that sincere gratitude; it's not currency with which you buy services.

(That's my view anyway)

 

[Mars]

Of course they don't do "whatever I want", as I said, they help me with whatever it is they do. If they are healers and I'm doing a healing spell, I call on them and they boost it. We co create together.

As to the incense being miniscule, if I was asking for something larger, of course I would offer much more. I have done that when entities offered to help with something, but i was way to busy to do spell myself, so we would negotiate on a large incense offering after they did the job themselves.

Entities have a purpose, and accomplishing that purpose has some kind of reward in itself, I'm not entirely clear on how it works but it does. Also, human time and attention are inherently valuable somehow. If an entity is associated with a system or current of magick, whenever someone practices that magick, it is strengthened. So they benefit again. These reasons are why I think many pacts are ridiculously imbalanced in favor of the entity, and they are just taking advantage of people, and farming huge offerings out of them.

Now if someone is going to the entity, large offerings might be necessary to get thier attention at all, but I have never had that work out anyway.

I'm not naming the entities I'm working with, but they aren't popular or well known.

They have presented themselves to me in meditation, through one of my familiar/guardian spirits. I communicate with spirits clairvoyantly like anyone else.

Thank you for your detailed response I appreciate it.

Communicating clairvoyantly But how? I always thought it only works in a state of Gnosis? I only was able to see them a few times, briefly before I "blackedout"(?). One time during this I was even able to compliment one on how pretty she was though ugh. How do you this? Could you please explain or help me in this? It's a bit of a sentimental topic for me.

I heard others achieving Communication pretty conciously with Astral Entities/ Suprasensible Powers or however one might want to call them. I'm honestly jealous at people experiencing this

 

[Xenophon]

Thank you for your detailed response I appreciate it.

Communicating clairvoyantly But how? I always thought it only works in a state of Gnosis? I only was able to see them a few times, briefly before I "blackedout"(?). One time during this I was even able to compliment one on how pretty she was though ugh. How do you this? Could you please explain or help me in this? It's a bit of a sentimental topic for me.

I heard others achieving Communication pretty conciously with Astral Entities/ Suprasensible Powers or however one might want to call them. I'm honestly jealous at people experiencing this

Depends on the long-term quality of the communication, dunnit? In college I envied a classmate, an ex-MLB prospect with the hot g.f. till she cleaned him out in a divorce a few years later.

 

[Roma]

Communicating clairvoyantly But how?

I have noticed in guided group meditations that the sharing afterwards demonstrates agreed information/detail that was not part of the guidance.

This seems to be because the close proximity and alignment of lightbodies produces a group lightbody that draws on the highest skills in the group and may even be augmented by friendly entities.

Less developed members of the group are able to see much than when alone.

When someone asks me about a relative/friend I ask them to visualize the person so that I can see them too. No words are used

 

[Misty Mystic]

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I think, that comunication with spirits is a lot like comunication with people.
To have good chances on close contact with John Doe from GB, you will have to know English language, have self-presentation skill, know the mentality and traditions of people in GB, know John's spheres of interests, ideal situation here is sharing same interests with John.

If you have no exp. in the spiritual field, but you're skilled enought to have clear feeling of energies and to make clear divinations, I would suggest to try comunication with spirits of location with neutral or positive attitude to ppl. Spitits of nature could be good option here.

Your first targets of communication should be:
-Self-presentation trainings and development of personal power, if first Self-presentations ;
-The understanding of ettiquette, principals of spirital "life" and mentality. If you will meet huge problems with this position, you could want to try OBE trainings to have more energy and to understand creaturs without flesh better.

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You can do it as a parallel activities with spiritual trainings

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Here I would suggest to choose the exact revision on view. According to my exp:
-Semi Trad Norse has huge lore an language threshold for entrance, than fantasy one;
-Twelve Olympians pantheon is not too good in you see authenticity. It's synthetic pantheon, which was created by the people after the dark ages, caused by Dorian migration.
-Daemonolatry is one of the most most variative and heterogeneous magickal background in the World. It includes a lot of variations, which could be close to wide spectre of backgrounds, like Abrahamic/Pagan/Neoshamanic/Atheistic/Post Modernistic/etc. To be good with certain way of Daemonolatry you will have to understand it's approach. It will help you greately to have more info/skills in the closest backgrounds.

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This is not nescessary, but it could help greatly. Also it could ruin your life.
I belive good divination skill and wise sence are youre best friends in situations like this.

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Three deities with such a comlicated and contradictory principles?! It's hard to imagine. I hope you was not scammed.

IMHO: to have good connection with any Face of entity, you will have to conduct it's principles to the World.
Let's take Odin as an example: it's rather hard to conduct by your own life the principles of Aldafaðr ("Father of men"), Auðun ("Friend of wealth") and Bǫlverkr ( "Evil-Doer" ) at the same time. Odin has 170 of such Faces, some ot which are more or less close to each other, but the other ones are contradictory

 

[Mannimarco]

Could you please explain or help me in this?

Not really, sorry. I haven't had any big breakthroughs that I could attribute to a particular practice. I think most of the psychic abilities I do have come from stubborn persistants and my 12th house stellium.

 

[Mars]

Not really, sorry. I haven't had any big breakthroughs that I could attribute to a particular practice. I think most of the psychic abilities I do have come from stubborn persistants and my 12th house stellium.

Interesting. If someone were to ask me what remote viewing feels like or appears as, I could give a pretty descriptive reply and instructions. Nonetheless, thank you

 

[Blackrose00]

I have general questions about making pacts with spirits, entities, demons, beings, Deities and other types of beings.
Q1)-Is it better for me to create a personal & meaningful pact with a spirit, entity, demon, being or Deity, even though i'm not really experienced?
I still need to do research about specific pantheons, but I already know basic information.
I want to prove my respect, loyalty, interest, devotion, that I trust & believe in the divine.
I feel drawn to specific Greek, Norse Deities & specific demons.

Q2)-Should I ask for help from a experienced witch, Occultist/other types of spiritual people?
I have paid for spellwork in the past, to help me create a connection/bond with Zeus, Odin & recently with Lucifer.
There are specific things I want/need spiritual help with & specific things I want to change & manifest in my life.

If you try to make a deal, it becomes a toy, after a while they might find you dead.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

How does one know that the pact is successful? Or has been accepted?

What method did you opt to verify answers to your questions?

 

[Nocturnum]

Use tarot or a pendulum.

If you use a pendulum how do you know a Deity is communicating with you?
I want to learn various divination methods.

Post automatically merged: Feb 10, 2024

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I think, that comunication with spirits is a lot like comunication with people.
To have good chances on close contact with John Doe from GB, you will have to know English language, have self-presentation skill, know the mentality and traditions of people in GB, know John's spheres of interests, ideal situation here is sharing same interests with John.

If you have no exp. in the spiritual field, but you're skilled enought to have clear feeling of energies and to make clear divinations, I would suggest to try comunication with spirits of location with neutral or positive attitude to ppl. Spitits of nature could be good option here.

Your first targets of communication should be:
-Self-presentation trainings and development of personal power, if first Self-presentations ;
-The understanding of ettiquette, principals of spirital "life" and mentality. If you will meet huge problems with this position, you could want to try OBE trainings to have more energy and to understand creaturs without flesh better.

Please, Log in or Register to view codes content!

You can do it as a parallel activities with spiritual trainings

Please, Log in or Register to view codes content!

Here I would suggest to choose the exact revision on view. According to my exp:
-Semi Trad Norse has huge lore an language threshold for entrance, than fantasy one;
-Twelve Olympians pantheon is not too good in you see authenticity. It's synthetic pantheon, which was created by the people after the dark ages, caused by Dorian migration.
-Daemonolatry is one of the most most variative and heterogeneous magickal background in the World. It includes a lot of variations, which could be close to wide spectre of backgrounds, like Abrahamic/Pagan/Neoshamanic/Atheistic/Post Modernistic/etc. To be good with certain way of Daemonolatry you will have to understand it's approach. It will help you greately to have more info/skills in the closest backgrounds.

Please, Log in or Register to view codes content!

This is not nescessary, but it could help greatly. Also it could ruin your life.
I belive good divination skill and wise sence are youre best friends in situations like this.

Please, Log in or Register to view codes content!

Three deities with such a comlicated and contradictory principles?! It's hard to imagine. I hope you was not scammed.

IMHO: to have good connection with any Face of entity, you will have to conduct it's principles to the World.
Let's take Odin as an example: it's rather hard to conduct by your own life the principles of Aldafaðr ("Father of men"), Auðun ("Friend of wealth") and Bǫlverkr ( "Evil-Doer" ) at the same time. Odin has 170 of such Faces, some ot which are more or less close to each other, but the other ones are contradictory

Thank you for your detailed answer. I still need to research mythology & folklore. Why are they contradictory? What is a synthetic pantheon i'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Well, that there is the central problem.
If it is a well known entity, immerse yourself in its enn. Chant it repetitively for a week. You should feel a presence in your dwelling. Ask it to guide you in use of your divination tool. Ask it if it is who it says it is. Finally, ask if it accepted the pact.

 

[Nocturnum]

Well, that there is the central problem.
If it is a well known entity, immerse yourself in its enn. Chant it repetitively for a week. You should feel a presence in your dwelling. Ask it to guide you in use of your divination tool. Ask it if it is who it says it is. Finally, ask if it accepted the pact.

okay I will di that thanks.

 

[Mars]

What method did you opt to verify answers to your questions?

I just want to know if theres actually an entity or intelligence there. The only times I see them are either in dreams (highly likely to be fantasy elements coming from me) or during "sleep paralysis" where it could be hallucinations or interpretations.