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Martial Arts and Magick.

Audiolog Edu

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The question always is whether these chinese monks will be able to use this ability spontaneously in a stressful situation like a real fight without having time to prepare. Conditioning the stomach against blows like a boxer does is relatively straightforward - in striking martial arts, you are taught to forcefully exhale (and thus automatically clench your abdominal muscles hard) whenever you practice a punch, and you test that ability not only in 'abstract' exercises but also in free sparring so it becomes an automated reflex. I once shared a changing room with some of these orange-clad Shaolin fighters who were invited as a 'supporting act' for a famous motivational speaker; they were all very short and looked kinda delicate .. I wouldn't give them much chance against a trained heavyweight boxer, supernatural abilities or no.
I think thats asking too much because there must be pretty tall and heavy monks, and besides that something our muay thai teacher explained to us was things like the different rules on kick boxing, muay thai and full contact, fights for different pourposes will have different rules, what I want to say I saw a regular sized prob american Ju Jitsu fighter take on a body builder wich was profetional, and he couldnt make it against the strong looking guy (JuJitsu guy), he was not a body builder but at some point he recived damage from the body builder but he (again Ju Jitsu guy) got I think his leg or arm on a lock and made him tap out, body builder was not a boxer but he was masive compared to the ju jitsu and it was a very real fight in a dojo, with probably not a big monetization that I hate for example.
 

HoldAll

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I think thats asking too much because there must be pretty tall and heavy monks, and besides that something our muay thai teacher explained to us was things like the different rules on kick boxing, muay thai and full contact, fights for different pourposes will have different rules, what I want to say I saw a regular sized prob american Ju Jitsu fighter take on a body builder wich was profetional, and he couldnt make it against the strong looking guy (JuJitsu guy), he was not a body builder but at some point he recived damage from the body builder but he (again Ju Jitsu guy) got I think his leg or arm on a lock and made him tap out, body builder was not a boxer but he was masive compared to the ju jitsu and it was a very real fight in a dojo, with probably not a big monetization that I hate for example.

The difficulty a BJJ guy has against a striker is closing the gap to his opponent, to get so close to the other guy that any punches will become ineffective. Royce Gracie achieved this by throwing a (rather half-hearted) short left in the first few UFC tournaments and then going for the front leg for a takedown which nobody was used to at a time, defeating much larger opponents (there were no weight categories at that time) with his BJJ.

I wonder if there was any magick associated with grappling arts, which god the wrestlers at the ancient Olympic Games sacrificed to, for example.

Don't muay thai fighter wear all kinds of charms btw? How do they come by them, and who makes them?
 

Audiolog Edu

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The difficulty a BJJ guy has against a striker is closing the gap to his opponent, to get so close to the other guy that any punches will become ineffective. Royce Gracie achieved this by throwing a (rather half-hearted) short left in the first few UFC tournaments and then going for the front leg for a takedown which nobody was used to at a time, defeating much larger opponents (there were no weight categories at that time) with his BJJ.

I wonder if there was any magick associated with grappling arts, which god the wrestlers at the ancient Olympic Games sacrificed to, for example.

Don't muay thai fighter wear all kinds of charms btw? How do they come by them, and who makes them?
even I practiced it I did not got tought a lot of the esoteric wich now I value a lot, ive been watching thailands yoga for muay thai but thats it.
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This is a very interesting YT chanel of someone who uses martial arts and also is a law enforcer. He even apply philosophy and is nice.
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You know why I also made this thread man, there is scientific proof that meditation like yoga or even visualizations are great for people that exercise. People that trained martial arts had to do meditation because apparently when people work out you need to recover and meditation helps a lot in the recovery proces, is like an activity athletes must practice to rid off stress and well perhaps gain focus in what ever be their goal. And I think I said I practiced Aikido and that is when I started knowing meditation from an eastern asian perspective, being in seiza before and after was very nice thing I liked before I knew the scientific approach on meditation because western science did not wanted to open up in certain practices.
 
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Faaram

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You're on to something, someone in reddit even said that they don't trust in any magical school that don't involve martial arts training as well. But as HoldAll said, just meditation and energy work won't prepare you for a fight. Ideally, you should take up either Krav Maga or Muay Thai + Brazillian Jiu Jitsu. Striking + Grappling. Paralel to that, you should be doing the Iron Body training. I shared a good book on it, btw, specially if you don't have a trustworthy sifu nearby.

Once you have a base in the MA, you should start to train, during sparring sessions the usage of your magical abilities in the fight. Also, the longer the fight goes on and the more you get hit , the harder it is to concentrate, so make good use of sparring sessions with your classmates because it will be the closest you get for training besides actual fights, and those are, well, dangerous. Musashi's work is great, check it out, as well as the work of the founder of Mugai Ryu.

The book on Iron Body or Iron Skills training

The ninja and the british yogi special ops are kinda the closest we have to jedi.
 

Amur

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To get back to the mental aspects of martial arts, I'd like to address the unfortunate phenomenon that most people will freeze and go all rigid when faced with an unforeseen threat, making them unable to pull their weapon or apply any self-defense techniques they've learnt. It's the "This can't really be happening to me!" sort of incredulity as well as panic that prevents them from responding adequately to a threat, and I wonder if it's possible to use purely mental methods such as meditation to learn how to stay calm in the face of danger and react instantaneously and efficiently… probably in the abstract only, as it were, you'd need actual physical practice to acquire that ability.

When practicing not-thinking while going for a walk, I sometimes entertain myself by imagining a ninja lurking with a drawn sword behind a tree and remaining utterly unfazed so I can react completely spontaneously and naturally (and totally ruthlessly, of course). The main point is the relaxed and empty state of mind here - NOT mentally prepared for anything, NOT paranoically suspicious and alert, NOT feeling like some great big invincible warrior, just staying relaxed, calm and collected like I would go routinely through my daily business, entirely serene and unafraid but somewhere in the back of my mind capable of almost casually wreaking total mayhem when attacked. It's a fascinating exercise.
Somehow I figured out a technique which works for me to always keep calm. I process the emotions BEFORE something happens and then because I have already processed the emotions I can go with calm liquicity to the situation. Tends to work very well and you can just be calm and observe the underlying situation.
 

Amor

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to find good books in english about the meditation techniques of Ninjas. How they developed their super human skills is incredible to read, is a very well kept secret this Bujinkan method
Could you name the books
 

Audiolog Edu

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Sorry, since I wrote this thread I bought a new PC and apparently I did not moved those books into my USB.
 

Cartae

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Nothing beats the fight itself; however, if any form of meditation can be useful in combat, it is the one practised by the samurai: visualising one’s own death. I am not a soldier, but I have been in street fights before, and in my best fights—though I haven’t had many— it was contemplating my own death or that of my opponent that allowed me to give my all and ensure my survival (though the gods forbid it, I’ve never actually gone that far; I mean to annihilate the opponent right to the very last limit). Sorry for my English, I’m using a translator.
 

diana_i_gusarova

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It seems to me that the books by Masaaki Hatsumi and Stephen Hayes contain a lot of information about meditation and ninja energy practices.
 

hollowglasd

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I hold the tank of ni dan(second degree black belt) in Japanese goju ryu karate do seiwa Kai yamaguci ha lineage
For occult leanings read the bubiahi where Goju gets it’s name article 3 8 poems of the fist found within it
Also every kata we have has occult lore to them as well as it’s animal
Now time to do some kata in the rain
Oss
 

Firetree

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I have over 45 years experience in various martial arts (including weapons ) I could write about it all day .... but I thought this thread was going to be about martial arts and magick? I see a bit of talk about 'meditation' and Ninjas .

Here is some food for thought , I won't go into it unless someone is interested :

'' the work of the wand and the work of the sword; these he shall learn and teach." Al1 :37.

Some correlations ;
Wand - short staff / stick .
Sword - sword.
Disc - shield.
Dagger - dagger.
Cup ... the 'water element' is harder to associate with a weapon , I associate it more with a range of 'drawing in ' .... 'accepting' techniques .

The 4 'states' of 'holding ki' are related to the four elements as well .

In a fight or spar , a whole lot of 'mental magick' is going on ... a whole lot of psychic stuff - one needs to manage that ( for example I was an orderly in a public hospital for 10 years , many a time I was required to 'bring order' to the violent , aggressive , drug crazed , confused , etc . Sometimes 'prescience' overrules or stops further development of chaos - suppression / diffusion in various ways, one has to gauge the other to find what suits .

Mental projections and 'mental broadcasting ' ( dont just feint a move ... believe you are goijng to do that move with your whole being - convince yourself even you are going to that move ... I have found this works well with some ; '' Where did that left hook come wrom? I was SURE you were doing a front kick ! ) ;) - play a big part .

I see above someone has an issue with aikido :) I think I know why . Aikido class can be a fun ritual ( martial arts training - of a type ) combined with family ancestral worship cult ( see that picture of Grandpa on the wall , with the traditional altar and elemental; set up ? part of your annual dues and fees will STILL go to his family and descendants , even though they mighty have nothing to do with martial arts .

So you might not be practicing magick but you will be practicing a 'martial religion' . But here is the thing ... vary competent aikido can exist , one just has to mix it up with other techniques and use when appropriate ..... like ALL techniques . In a free for all without the overly restrictive rules of an aikido session , I could best most of the teachers ... including with weapons ... they are too 'in the box' not enough outside experience ...... However ; an example .

I was training with a club for a while, Okinawan karate and kobudu .... unfortunately the teacher was a real dick , but he knew somethings I wanted to learn . We trained on the weekend at a park by the river in town . Nearby were some Aikido guys ( knew their instructor and had done some training with him. The karate instructor, although being outwardly friendly was always criticizing them ; '' Look at that, look at what they are doing , thats hopeless, that wouldn't do anything ,,, that would not work ... they should train with us .... '' :rolleyes:

Part of what I did was to analyse street fights and violent attacks . here the machete is one of the most common weapons used (as well as knives , but they are very similar ) so I would train with and against them . A few weapons I learnt, they were double weapons, one in each hand ( sai, kamma, etc ) so I used to do a double machete 'form' . Training friends got nervous so I got a friend to make me a set out of wood , did a good job , looked pretty good .

So, 'instructor' decides this weekend we will go out the coast and train at a picnic park near the beach and have a lunch afterwards . Busy park so a lot of people were watching us . We took a break.. that means training and martial arts had stopped .... time out , bow out . Guys were chatting, drinking water and dick 'instructor' has picked up one of my wooden machetes, looked at it, balanced it ... looked at me and ...

Outside of training - taking a break , not a pre-arranged drill, no warning , nothing he just rushes in with downward stike to the top of my head or shoulder . What I did , every other time the person has rolled away to the right as I threw them ... for some reason he tried to 'sit down ' (or something , the guy done NO groundwork, rolls, breakfalls ever ! - and supposedly a 6th dan :rolleyes: ) to the left ... totally against the arm'lock/throw .... snap ! I felt it thought my hand . he ended up a pile of mess on the ground and out his mouth came ''You did it wrong ! ''
- which caused the other guys and some onlookers to laugh ... stupid thing to say when you been smashed ! The other guys insisted to him I was moving slow and looked even gentle , I was not even being rough with him ( they asked later, what was that move ... Aikido, I told them )

His wife came over looked down at him and said ''Good ! Well done ! '' ( she never liked it when he hurt others ) and helped him back to the car and they left . he was out of action (no training ) for a few weeks after that .

There are a lot of moves in aikido that can be used in a fight or bout ... you just have to know hopw to use them and how to fight . Just doing the 'aikido ritual dance ' (only ) in a class might not have any value in a fight . Even so there are elements of movement, timing, distance , etc that can give benefit from aikido training .

And most thorough martial arts have a variety of 'aikido like' ... or at least 'jutsu' ; grips, locks, takedowns etc . many of the old kata forms include that ( I did old style karate * ) that got changed in more modern times to 'blocking and striking' techniques .

* ie, used to be a deadly no rules fighting system but changed into a kids PE primary school curriculum . . . The current form evolved from that . However a few schools have adopted some old things or from cross-training , to get it back to a more self-defense / fighting aspect .
 

HoldAll

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I only have one such story to report, and it got me thinking whether it might not belong into this thread. There was this guy I knew from like fifteen years ago from my first dojo, a bit eccentric but cool. One time I was paired up with him for kihon ippon kumite, with him as an attacker, all formal and traditional. So he stepped back, loudly announced "Oi-zuki jodan!" and smiled at me. I remember thinking "Nice innocent smile for a grown man", and the next he was standing close in front of me, still smiling innocently but with his fist held under my chin - I hadn't moved at all, not that I was paralysed or hypnotised or something, apparently I had just forgotten to step back. It was the damndest thing. I usually enjoy that drill very much because it teaches you to attack/react out of the blue without telegraphing or flinching, but on that occasion… has anybody heard of innocently smiling ninjas? Because that's how he looked to me. I have no idea if he was a practitioner, it nevertheless felt a bit spooky.

If it had been deliberate, I wonder whether that trick (if trick it was) could have worked in free sparring (I never got the chance to spar with the guy, he left shortly after). Dominating a weaker guy until he goes deer-in-the-headlights, fine, you're doing that instinctively by means of your body language, a grim face, heavy breathing, and playing the all-around Wild Man of Borneo, but against someone with equal or superior abilities? Casting a glamour while at the same time occupied with saving your skin?
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I still had my arms at my side and didn't even attempt the age-uke. Eerie.
 
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Firetree

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Not many realize but aikido itself started off as being involved with an old obscure magical religious system that came about originally from a case of spirit possession .

The system was ruled by women , and curiously is still active today

'' Uniquely among Japanese religions, Oomoto makes extensive use of the constructed language
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to promote itself as a
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. Oomoto has historically engaged in extensive
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with religions such as the
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, Christianity, and Islam, since a key tenet of Oomoto is that all religions come from the same source... ''

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