What an engaging conversation, so very full of desire, ego, and pride— that’s not an accusation or condemnation, just an observation. I myself am filled with all of these.
I think the point made about Barron (I used to be a very big Bardon fan, and then, oddly through it found myself deep in the Saturnine with the Ordo Saturni , the “traditionalist” branch off of the Fraternitas Saturni” and , though some cry “not true” the basic foundation for the “Golden Centurion” in Bardons works)
Anyway, my many Saturn decades have given way to brighter paths, less bogged down in Thelema’s chitter chatter about self will, and yet uncontrolled rapture of ecstasy and hedonistic self aggrandizement — Oh Crowley though lusting wrenching drug-fiend once, so akin to my own heart— but Saturnus teaches a much heavier lesson, and its emerald-lighted wisdom exacts a heavy, leaded melancholy of being. (There’s no moving on the Uranian Blues… Gregorius was fibbing a black fib)
so I think the accusation of one to another, that of saying “if you can manipulate reality, why haven’t you done so and made yourself rich!” Is a very grounded critique— so true of all the fibble fabble about “powerful spells” with the Nudist Gardners (Wicca so called) and one’s own power — power? Like my glowing magic blasts will best yours? Egg Shen defeats Lo-Pan in a projected power blast mental video game?
whether one can do such things as change weather through thought , or leave the physical to astral travel, well we all have our experiences, but the more important question becomes, if it worked at all : why on earth did/should it work? What does that say about reality if you can bend it? You are God? The observer effect is your god consciousness? Prideful allure to be sure and a recipe for vast Megalomania (we’re all stars !!! Do what thou will’t… I am my own god , — but let’s not forget Liber Samekh and all the (quote) “
Father, O Satan, O Sun!"
"Thou, the Saviour!"
"Silence! Give me Thy Secret!"
“Give me suck, Thou Phallus, Thou
Sun!"
OOO "Satan, thou Eye, thou Lust!"
It’s quite a dogma of servitude and begging for power from those more powerful than thou, to be truly having anything to do with one’s will as supreme law —- Nietzsche would be unabashedly ashamed !!
So, is this magic? Or cultism? I dare say that Magic proper (without all the late 19ce into New age psychological “me and my mind stuff”) is genuinely what Dr.Stephen Skinner promotes: the completing of tasks by summoned spirits that the practitioner could not otherwise do themselves. A long and deep tradition (especially that we now have the Summa Sacred Magice translated — good by Lemegaton ! ) — but again, that these invocations work! Why ! What does it say that these entities obey because of the invoked name of God? (The various names, the Shemhamphoresh even). Why on earth would they obey you? Because you are pretending to be King Solomon with a lion skin belt? They are not fools, as any genuine case of Catholic exorcism can prove (the fu*kers speak Latin ! They know you through— not stupid nor can be tricked by a Mathers costume in Egypt headdress and leopard fur) …
So what’s going on? It’s not “your will” that commands them, but it is to do with something special about you , you by threatening punishment from God on high (if you’re not a thelemite and Believe in the Divine and so haven’t given up your one true inheritance claim for a bunch of impotence making glitter that so very much mental magic boasts) … but why should your threat carry import? What are you? Oh fallen man, who seeks to reclaim his once high throne ? … perhaps.
a lot of rhetoric here, but I’d say this— magic comes to those with worthy cause for doing it, and with consequences for those who just want to dizxle with a beauty, or find some treasure, or “become powerful” whatever that means …. For what purpose? What aim? What’s the telos of the quest?
I’ll tell you this… of the Te of Saturn (FS and OS) , the end claim telos is a bad deal . I like a promethean legend like the next, but what on earth do you get for rebelling against the light? You get eternity in the Abyss and that’s the point : deny the reintegration of the devouring Sun, the light and become your own god, brilliant and radiant in the cosmos forever , become a bodisatva and help humanity with its evil and untether them too ! I learned what a terrible goal this was after many many years of deep practise —. We would all do well to learn a little Theodicy (the study of evil) before jumping on that Luciferian saviour self will bandwagon—
here’s a quick example — take the LBRP !
so , you call the archangels by name “so and so before me, so and so to my right..” you know how it goes. Now ask yourself : do you really believe the archangels have come? I hope so or you’re doing a tidy bit of cosplay theatre . So let’s say you do believe … what are you calling them for? To cleanse a space -fine… did what purpose? Better be a damn worthy one if they are to show up for you and do anything … better not just be to dive mentally into some colours, or chakras, or your conception of a spirit on the tree… are you saving a life? Sacrificing your own for another to serve? No? Just having fun in Egyptian headdress? … would Michael come for such silly self aggrandizement? Because the mortal magician wants to @be powerful?” I dare say no Archangel showed up for such an unworthy cause.
that’s my incendiary interjection for the month
I absolutely love this forum and that you all were even talking about the pros/ foibles of bardon or whatever … refreshing
oh !
And that Raven fella thinks he’s the Ubermensche ! But the Overman wouldn’t care about the “evils” of man , no protecting angel is he , but tramples out the whispers of decadent ages without a second thought …
Yea… posting in forums for aggrandizement I think not .
maybe he’s a David Beth Follower with all the poison spreading Voudon-Cosmo-Gnostic muck—-
great chatting with you all — Aahh my first longer post — I’ll be more concise and less rhetorical in my next— I promisr
happy to be with you all .
