Suggestions for hard-headed individuals

[adpacero]

Hi,

I want to start out by saying I speak this in the most respectful way possible and mean no offense to anyone, it’s just my current mindset I’m trying to actively change. Ive experimented with a lot of religions and occult practices ranging from energy work, nlp, and hypnosis all the way to order of the golden dawn, demonology, and . Point being, over the past 15 years, I’ve read/experimented a lot in the field of the supernatural. However, I have been unable to convince myself of anything existing outside of the realm of physical reality, despite my best efforts to for a lack of a better term, “brainwash.” it seems my whole goal in life for quite some time now has Simply been to have a spiritual side and have a knowing that something exists that I cannot see.

With that being said, would anyone have any suggestions on how to train yourself to feel/see/hear/know non-physical world does exist? I’ve went as far as to travel to known “haunted” sites and graveyards after midnight etc to try to hunt ghosts down and even do superstitious things like walking on cracks and under ladders just to try to get a feeling that something will happen. I would say my biggest enemy is my mind itself. I’ve tried my best to perform method acting when actually performing magick but it seems I’m not able to fake the unconscious part of the mind to really believe.

How would one actually “trick” themselves into believing something that they feel like is not actually real/true despite how much they tell themself consciously it is? Because each time I try something and nothing happens, it feels like it just reinforces that “ spirituality doesn’t exist and is just self-delusion of the mind” mentality.

 

[Asteriskos]

You might read (and Practice) the contents of Mat Auryn's Psychic Witchcraft. There's a lot of Practical information, and it stresses Practice!
It's in the WF library, and it's good for those who "Want" to believe.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

Well, if it's any help, I don't believe in the supernatural either. I do however know that there are many natural things that we don't have an explanation for, and which are normally labelled 'supernatural'. I know that magic exists; I've done it. I know that there is a thing that happens with humans that people normally call 'energy'; I've felt it, even when I wasn't trying.
When you try too hard, the logical/ focussing side of your brain gets in the way of the things you are hoping to experience. You should try to master empty mind meditation, or even just concentrate on your breath. Basically you need to learn how to quiet the 'monkey mind' that we all have. You can do magic by overloading the monkey mind, but unless you can get it to shut up on command, you won't feel the benefit.

 

[Asteriskos]

Another recommendation often given out here is Advanced Magic for Beginners by Alan Chapman which also stresses Practice!
Lot of Insights come from Practice!

 

[Tehuti]

Hi,

I want to start out by saying I speak this in the most respectful way possible and mean no offense to anyone, it’s just my current mindset I’m trying to actively change. Ive experimented with a lot of religions and occult practices ranging from energy work, nlp, and hypnosis all the way to order of the golden dawn, demonology, and . Point being, over the past 15 years, I’ve read/experimented a lot in the field of the supernatural. However, I have been unable to convince myself of anything existing outside of the realm of physical reality, despite my best efforts to for a lack of a better term, “brainwash.” it seems my whole goal in life for quite some time now has Simply been to have a spiritual side and have a knowing that something exists that I cannot see.

With that being said, would anyone have any suggestions on how to train yourself to feel/see/hear/know non-physical world does exist? I’ve went as far as to travel to known “haunted” sites and graveyards after midnight etc to try to hunt ghosts down and even do superstitious things like walking on cracks and under ladders just to try to get a feeling that something will happen. I would say my biggest enemy is my mind itself. I’ve tried my best to perform method acting when actually performing magick but it seems I’m not able to fake the unconscious part of the mind to really believe.

How would one actually “trick” themselves into believing something that they feel like is not actually real/true despite how much they tell themself consciously it is? Because each time I try something and nothing happens, it feels like it just reinforces that “ spirituality doesn’t exist and is just self-delusion of the mind” mentality.

The main problem is forcing yourself to experience the supernatural. When you chase signs or try to prove something exists, you create tension and block subtle perception.
The key is to relax and be fully present.
Instead of focusing on seeing or hearing something extraordinary, focus on ,Breathing,nner-body awareness ,Emotional shifts Subtle environmental changes
Over time, you may begin noticing temperature shifts, tingling sensations, changes in atmosphere, or deeper stillness not because you forced them, but because you became more aware.
The simple principle:
Stop trying to produce results. Be present during the process, and allow experience to unfold naturally.

 

[Asteriskos]

You might read (and Practice) the contents of Mat Auryn's Psychic Witchcraft. There's a lot of Practical information, and it stresses Practice!
It's in the WF library, and it's good for those who "Want" to believe.

There's a Lot of practical material in this book on changing and creating a positive "attitude". Doing something "practical" that will allow you "see improvement" little by little is a key to progress. Nothing here about stressing out in any form, it's not necessary as has been said.
But, if you have no "structure" or plan to follow, it's difficult to progress in anything in life, playing the piano or practicing magic, it's really that simple. Best of Luck to You!

 

[hoiz7]

would say my biggest enemy is my mind itself

I understand where are you coming from. It seems like there’s some sort of a veil obstructing your view into the supernatural and stuff.

What I can advise you is bit extreme but really worth it if you want to see the magical side of this world

pure ego death and paradigm/framework shift.

You can’t look at the supernatural from your angle of perspective, so you need to change your angle. This is easier said than done, and in my experience the only efficient way to achieve it is through ego death of some sort.

I used to be like you, materialistic and stuff and “there’s no studies behind it.” And “God? Lol there’s no such thing like that.” This sort of thing. And I probably would be like this till I die until I was hammered by life and lost all my sense of self and worth and ego with absolutely no sort of values I can cling to. You (kinda) need to lost before you can be found.

Best of luck tho!

 

[NecromanticFox]

I was skeptical of most things myself when I first started out.

I was on the fence of spiritual communication with using an ouija board until I used a not so great DIY one my friend who was mentoring at me at the time had made, just to have spirits mention things that she didn’t know about — let alone what I would even tell anyone about, so I knew then she definitely wasn’t just messing with me.

I got into practicing witchcraft under her teaching me, but I always went outside of that and took the initiative to do my own research and work. I will never forget some “silly” stupid spell I found on Spells Of Magic, basic to design and call your own familiar, and I drew out a cute little calico cat. Not long after, the outside cat we had fed and she stuck around awhile was pregnant and gave birth to one singular calico kitten that matched exactly what I had drawn and described. In the years she had been around, she had never once previously had any calico kittens and she never did again later after.

The point is, I think skepticism is normal… and sometimes even healthy, but I think the best thing is being open and receptive to new experiences, especially the unknown. Sometimes it’ll feel stupid and silly, other times you’ll probably want to say it’s only purely coincidental. But really, you really don’t know unless you try, and I don’t mean just once and giving up and calling it good.

 

[Swampdweller900]

I started off a strict materialist, data-only decision-making, etc. so I hear you on your perspective. I still rely on data-informed decision-making, I'm just more tolerant for subtle data.

My opinion is that critical thought and self-reflection may be what you're lacking in a way. You're wondering how to "trick" yourself into believing in something you haven't experienced? OK, well you've let a set of materialist media and perspectives outside of you "trick" you and brainwash you your whole life into thinking that it's NOT possible. That's what you're struggling against. You can't help that you're so deeply entrenched in a worldview where nothing outside of materialism is possible because it's all you know. You can't help but rationalize away everything even when you may have had subtle experiences already. Which is fine - question everything - but you don't realize how deep that goes, and how much that actually prevents you from being open to experiencing things outside of the mundane materialist worldview.

The short version is you need to have an experience that shakes your worldview and cracks it open enough to set you free from how you think currently. Often, these are not pleasant experiences at the time, and that's the price of admission. A lot of people start off with a ouija board, which is like learning that the stove is hot by burning your hand. You'll learn, alright. It's both a mistake and evidence, and you can, and many people do, let it take you to a negative place before pulling back. It's an option, but IMO not a great first stop without a real human partner.

A softer option is to learn how to do remote viewing, which you can do yourself at home. If you don't think it will work, or don't want to do well at it because it will scare you, you won't. That's sort of the catch-22 of intent. You may well be filled with intent not to change your perspective on the world for any number of rational reasons. Check the reddit /r/remoteviewing community, they have a guide and a lot of experience. Once you get a few solid hits where you know you're blind to the target, you can't help but take a step back and wonder what else you've been missing.

Good luck out there.

 

[tranmut3]

Hi,

I want to start out by saying I speak this in the most respectful way possible and mean no offense to anyone, it’s just my current mindset I’m trying to actively change. Ive experimented with a lot of religions and occult practices ranging from energy work, nlp, and hypnosis all the way to order of the golden dawn, demonology, and . Point being, over the past 15 years, I’ve read/experimented a lot in the field of the supernatural. However, I have been unable to convince myself of anything existing outside of the realm of physical reality, despite my best efforts to for a lack of a better term, “brainwash.” it seems my whole goal in life for quite some time now has Simply been to have a spiritual side and have a knowing that something exists that I cannot see.

With that being said, would anyone have any suggestions on how to train yourself to feel/see/hear/know non-physical world does exist? I’ve went as far as to travel to known “haunted” sites and graveyards after midnight etc to try to hunt ghosts down and even do superstitious things like walking on cracks and under ladders just to try to get a feeling that something will happen. I would say my biggest enemy is my mind itself. I’ve tried my best to perform method acting when actually performing magick but it seems I’m not able to fake the unconscious part of the mind to really believe.

How would one actually “trick” themselves into believing something that they feel like is not actually real/true despite how much they tell themself consciously it is? Because each time I try something and nothing happens, it feels like it just reinforces that “ spirituality doesn’t exist and is just self-delusion of the mind” mentality.

Investigate Quaeria.
a couple of points -
Magically, people are either 'gifted' or not, most are not. By the time we reach adulthood our psychic centres have totally closed up and it takes GREAT effort to reverse this situation.
If you are not naturally gifted, developing a 'real' magical practise takes at least 10 years, based on daily / weekly practises.
There is no way past this. It takes 10 + years commited, focused practice to develop in any way.
If you are prepared to go through a long perioid of training consistently and with commitment then you will see results, including in the area of magic.
but if you're just curious + not naturally gifted this will need to be a long term thing, akin to going up the middle pillar of the tree of life. It literally can take a lifetime.
the best 'course' for the 2nd group i've seen is Quaeria. Of course, it depends what you are looking for, its a very slow paced, steady course which is designed to take years to complete, and will change you in the process, awakening your magical centres and putting you in touch with inner contacts who will work with you / guide you on your path.
One problem is finding a good system, and it's quite seductive to try something for a few months, see no results and move on to something else, concluding 'that doesnt work / that's a waste of time' But in this way, we can simply jump from superficial layer to superficial layer. Magic exists in the deep depths, like full meditation, which also takes years to see begin to work. It needs a wise selection of the system, and a long term dedicated application

 

[Van Horne]

I like to call myself a skeptical mystic. To me this means there is an "absolute truth", but this is outside of my personal and everybody else's reach. We can get closer to it, but most likely we will never get hold of it. Everybody is bound to "relative truth", formed by personal perspectives, believes and experiences. I'm willing to accept the possibility that basically everything the human mind can imagine exists, but I deny the indisputable certainty of those things. Therefore I'm very estranged by individuals who claim this certainty for themselves, especially when they try to sell their "absolute truth" to others.

Furthermore I believe there are boundaries for us as human race, which we might never overcome. Think of bats or spiders i.e., their perception of the world is completely different to ours. To us their worldview is almost unimaginable. But there is the possibility to find means which will enable a change in our perception.

@adpacero
I understand your point. Sometimes I think about myself as a very bad occultist because of my skeptical stance. By nature I am a historian and theorist, what I call my "magical practice" would make folks like S.L. Mathers and Aleister Crowley facepalm themselves. But yet - with or without practice - I had very personal experiences in my life that convinced me of something beyond "the veil". Like you described for yourself, I still have this intrinsic drive to continue my studies and to practice, and I like to believe their is a deeper meaning behind it. Or this is just part of a cosmic comedy I'm not able to grasp, then I'll accept my role as a fool in this play. And btw a good portion of skepticism can be protective barrier. To quote Tropic Thunder: "Never go full retard!"

I believe it's important not to force things, not trying to make it happen by any means necessary, even if this means that it will never happen at all!
And it's a question about ones personal goals. Do you want to see things just to make yourself believe? And for what purpose? And never forget, the human mind is a treacherous thing. Humans have a unique ability, they can lie to themselves profoundly! If you have certain goals, then go on and reach for them, if your willing to pay the price!

 

[Morell]

Hi,

I want to start out by saying I speak this in the most respectful way possible and mean no offense to anyone, it’s just my current mindset I’m trying to actively change. Ive experimented with a lot of religions and occult practices ranging from energy work, nlp, and hypnosis all the way to order of the golden dawn, demonology, and . Point being, over the past 15 years, I’ve read/experimented a lot in the field of the supernatural. However, I have been unable to convince myself of anything existing outside of the realm of physical reality, despite my best efforts to for a lack of a better term, “brainwash.” it seems my whole goal in life for quite some time now has Simply been to have a spiritual side and have a knowing that something exists that I cannot see.

With that being said, would anyone have any suggestions on how to train yourself to feel/see/hear/know non-physical world does exist? I’ve went as far as to travel to known “haunted” sites and graveyards after midnight etc to try to hunt ghosts down and even do superstitious things like walking on cracks and under ladders just to try to get a feeling that something will happen. I would say my biggest enemy is my mind itself. I’ve tried my best to perform method acting when actually performing magick but it seems I’m not able to fake the unconscious part of the mind to really believe.

How would one actually “trick” themselves into believing something that they feel like is not actually real/true despite how much they tell themself consciously it is? Because each time I try something and nothing happens, it feels like it just reinforces that “ spirituality doesn’t exist and is just self-delusion of the mind” mentality.

So you say that you believe in fully material world, but want to believe in the physical as well as non physical world.

Don't.

Accept things as they are. Faith is for sheeple. Physical world is the basics. We can observe it etc. Can we observe non physical world? If we can, it is real. If you can dream and observe the world of dreams, then there is something real about it. If you can get out of body and observe non physical world, then it is real. Can it be hallucinations? Hallucination is non standart working of your senses. Unstable, but not unreal. Can it be illusion? Illusion is reality read or understood wrong. It is not fake reality.

Do you want to accept that non physical is real? Then accept it. If you cannot accept it, then okay, believe it. Faith doesn't require evidence, but is supposed to be drive for you to find it in time.

 

[Ziran]

With that being said, would anyone have any suggestions on how to train yourself to feel/see/hear/know non-physical world does exist?

Many begin with contemplating the "gateless-gate". Have you heard of it?