i will have to think on some answers, but isnt in the creation story of masonry and rosecruscianism the holy city of jerusalem a se/acret meeting and melting. and didnt each religion take its task upon themselves to create orders and networks in the world? and didnt we after that create wars and rulings for money and didnt we after we restructured the world ( kolonialism ) decide to rekindle each other for chaos and didnt we need visionary adversaries for that?
so why satanism? it was that time of the aeon i guess....
The free Masonic creation story starts
"in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth..." because we use a KJV Bible as the basis for our ritual. This does not mean that you have to be Christian or believe that the Bible is the truth, however Freemasonry did emerge out of a Christian culture and if you aren't comfortable with that you're going to have a bad day if you join Masonry.
Likewise the Rosicrucian creation story starts out the same way because it is also based on the Bible. I stress again however that Freemasonry does not ask you to believe in a certain creation story.
I can only assume you are asking how Freemasonry and was a Christian is in both started... In which case Freemasonry started in the stone guilds of Scotland. It did not develop overnight but over the course of 100 to 200 years until we start to see in the 1300s the first inklings of speculative ritualistic Freemasonry.
Now from there there's a few tall tales which may have varying degrees of truth. The most popular of these is that it was the knights Templar finding refuge in the stone guilt which was a catalyst which transformed us from a merely operative craft into a speculative one. Even as Mason's we can't prove that. However we do know that the Templars were needing refuge in the early 1300s in our earliest reference to speculative masonry is in the late 1300s. The time frame does line up, and what's more, there was indeed a Templar stronghold close to where Freemasonry started. No I don't know that a Mason ever shook the hand of a Templar and exchange stories with them about King Solomon's Temple as our lore states but I can tell you that when Freemasonry was first emerging as a speculative art it would have been surrounded by stories of the knights Templar, and the local law especially would have been perfect for adoption into such an order as the first FreeMasonic guild.
Our meetings aren't secret so much as they are private. The goings on may be secret to you however, most lodges will publicly State win their states meeting times are.
The Rosicrucians until ever were far more secretive. Dandy did have secret meetings, which were often likely held at a masonic lodge. And Truth we know very little about the first Rosicrucians. The manifesto tells us that there were four of them and that they did me I didn't undisclosed location once a year.
I feel to see the significance of this regards to our earlier conversation but moving on to your next point...
Freemasonry is not a religion. It is however a fraternity of deeply religious or otherwise very spiritual men. Oh yes I suppose you could say that we do have a habit of starting other organizations for the benefit of people in general and especially to help them find their way in life. Yes it is true, we are guilty of starting Alcoholics Anonymous, The FFA, The Bot Scouts etc. Of course when I say we are guilty I mean individuals who were Mason started these organizations, not that any large voted on the creation of these organizations. We often get accused of running the world and I suppose in light of this information we used to somewhat but not in the way people think we did. We are not a political organization nor a government organization and we don't in any way influence the laws of the land. We do however have an ethic and helping each person and prove themselves and helping them be a productive member of their community. There are very few things that you can say Mason's believe as we are a system of morality not a system of belief outside of the requirement to believe in a supreme Creator God, but I don't know of a single brother who would disagree with me that masonry has a belief that you changed the world through changing yourself and helping other people change themselves, not through coercion or the taking walk away of God-given Rights or dignities. So yes I profess that it is true we influenced the world not through buying legislation but they're creating organizations to help people.
Now as for the Rosicrucians. Most of us are masons and you are charity work through Masonic organizations. You however were referring to the original Rosaecrucians I'm sure. Yes like Freemasonry they did have quite the reputation of starting various organizations. Although they were so damn secretive that it cannot be proven which, if any organizations they started. This point might be best explained with the likelihood that they were also Freemasons and work through Freemasonry to that end. There may even be a degree in the northern jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite that talks about our relationship; I'd say a couple. Others have taken the statement to mean that these rows of Christians were the secret Chiefs of many esoteric order, and it is no secret that the secret chiefs were at least modeled after the Rosicrucians and their secrecy. Why, I see no reason to believe that the roads are crucial didn't help establish both public civil groups and various esoteric orders for the purpose of helping humanity along. That was sort of what they were chartered to do.
Why if it wasn't for Rosicrucianism with the assistance of Freemasonry there would have been no Golden Dawn or neopagan revival. Though I seriously do not think those Brothers could have foreseen how their influence would ripple out through the advancing timeline.
Up until this point you weren't too far off and then you just went straight off into the deep end after this point. Just exactly who are you referring to when you say "we" created or started wars?
Both Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism are apolitical in nature. We are not political orders. Well we do have an ethic to help the world where we can we are not taught to be it saviors, nor do we profess to get involved with what one may call the worldly while guiding the world. Now you cant very well know what the world needs if you're not a resident of it, and is individuals we are, but when we step into that Lodge it is about relationship with God and improving ourselves and our communities so that we can meet the roles we are to play with dignity and integrity. It does not matter if the brother is sitting next to me is of an opposing political party or religion; what matters to me is that he learned to navigate the circumstances of his life with virtue and honor.
Now that I haven't been said you have to understand that in the late 1700s we still had Protestant Kings fighting Catholic King so over territory and the people continue to suffer for it. Frankly this has been going on since about the start of the Protestant Reformation, which was supposed to be over at the time, and everybody was just about sick of it. Masonry also has an ethic that a man's religion is between that man and God. You might say we have an ethic of religious freedom and Masons, as individuals, have a habit of defending the other dog in defending they're right to live as they choose so long as they are not infringing upon the rights of others or trying to start a culture war.
So yes, a number of us certainly had our hand and both the US revolution and the French revolution.. which among other things were worse about being sick and tired of having Kings. I want to be clear however that nowhere during those events did a lodge ever vote to promote mutiny nor tyranny or to organize any event of civil disobedience. We have been very careful not to drag the fraternity into political conflict.
So for example, the lodge did not vote on the Boston tea party but every member knew that they were not meeting for Lodge that night because they had a party to go to.
Freemasonry has absolutely no control over the economy or the currency used within it. That is beyond our power and influence. I would say most Masons wish that we were still on the gold standard and you don't have to be a Mason to know the dollar has gone shit.
As for colonialism well it is true that colonialism did help Freemasonry spread across the world, Freemasonry should not be equivocated with colonialism. It should be understood to have spread by that same culture that was responsible for colonialism. You probably do not know, and there's no reason why one would expect you to, that many Freemasons fought for the rights of Native Americans. There were also those who were members of the fraternity who committed genocide against Native Americans. They were also times when Freemasons were called in to be third-party arbitrator between natives and other colonials because the natives in question respected and trusted the Masons, and the natives still got a bad deal despite the efforts of the Masons. So it is a mixed bag. I would say more Masons were beneficial to Native Americans than those who were not, however because the most famous one who was not was Andrew Jackson who my people call Tvsgino, the devil, Masonry gets a bad reputation.
That reputation especially pervades more Western tribes. Masonry historically has been very popular within my tribe.
I don't know what you mean by kindling each other for chaos unless you are coming from a misunderstanding of the Masonic axiom "Order ab Chao" nor do I understand what you mean by these adversaries.
But please do go on and explain to me how Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism has anything to do with you choosing to mix Satanism and Sufism, because I think that's neither here nor there.
