Author What are your opinions on Jason's Miller occult material?

[Faria]

It's how it works for any observer on this thread who can clearly see you whined about it being "not historical," lol. And that is what I care about.

So quote it. I think you've failed to read it carefully.

If a course isn't offering historical/traditional/existing knowledge about magic, the alternative is whatever the author invented. Anyone who signs up to learn about "authentic" Hecate sorcery is going to be disappointed, and that's not whining it's just a fact. I contend that what you are getting isn't even what he himself uses. Outside of telling some anecdotes about his personal work, the contents are things he put together for students to use. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but people contemplating taking the course ought to understand that they're getting what this one guy put together as a product rather than an immersive course in magic with relevance outside of the class itself.

I, and the vast majority of sensible people who take coursers, know that it doesn't guarantee anything or help you buy your way into anything.

I think that if you want to become a great magician, you should do great deeds, even terrible deeds. You can go ahead and enjoy your slightly-better gig work, while the people who "get it" will be attempting and occasionally accomplishing the incredible. If what you want is to be a community member and a participant, great, but I'm here to offer opinions as requested, and I think that's lame. Be a jewel in God's crown or a boil on His ass, and you'll do better as a magician than someone who diligently takes notes. Sensible people make bad magicians.

 

[stellarjourneyman]

If a course isn't offering historical/traditional/existing knowledge about magic, the alternative is whatever the author invented.

Someone, at some point, invented every magical method you practice. Fine to focus more on historical methods, but JM is extremely up front about the fact that his system came to him by revelation. He also actively promotes the work of Hekateans who are more rooted in tradition and tells you they are more rooted in tradition if that is your preference. Your opinion is fine and not really harmful, but it's like complaining that you got sardines and not canned tomatoes when it says "SARDINES" in red letters, very clearly, on the tin.

The more sane reaction to going through the entire pirated course in order to rant about it when this reality is clear to anyone who does a bit of research would be to move on to something better suited to your style.

You can go ahead and enjoy your slightly-better gig work, while the people who "get it" will be attempting and occasionally accomplishing the incredible.

I am occasionally accomplishing the incredible. This isn't my main art, but I love it, and I'm good at it. My love magic is off the chain and has helped many people; I am also trying to make it in a very difficult-to-crack-into field and am doing fantastic. I have a small handful of stories where the results were unmistakably magical that have made very accomplished magicians' jaws drop. I just don't care about money magic that much beyond what I strictly need, lol. And I consider myself to be always learning, hence trying out SoH, since it also has some advantages compared to the systems I've learned.

Again, you can have all of these opinions without slandering people, making unsubstantiated claims, and assisting horrible people in infernal money laundering schemes that damage others.

 

[Faria]

JM is extremely up front about the fact that his system came to him by revelation.

And again, I believe that is entirely fictional. Beyond that, the contents of the course are clearly not "what Hecate revealed," but what Jason Miller made up. And you are right, there's nothing wrong with that, but people coming to this thread to decide whether or not to spend their money on it ought to know that before getting involved.

The more sane reaction to going through the entire pirated course in order to rant about it when this reality is clear to anyone who does a bit of research would be to move on to something better suited to your style.

I've had a bone to pick with him for more than twenty years over a personal issue. This is me returning the favor. I have not the slightest interest in taking occult classes of any style.

Again, you can have all of these opinions without slandering people

There's a difference between slander and giving his course a bum review. On that note, I encourage everyone to go over to the Book Shares and download the course, listen to it, and read the supplementary materials. I especially recommend this for those who aren't interested in taking the course or even in reading the material. I think that after a few sections you will agree with me that this is some LARPy stuff the author made to fill out his pocket-stuffing scheme, aimed at people with a high school reading level.

 

[stellarjourneyman]

Beyond that, the contents of the course are clearly not "what Hecate revealed," but what Jason Miller made up.

"Clearly" lol. You have no earthly idea. You're the one making unsubstantiated claims here. As far as I can tell, JM has not.

You have your suspicions, and those suspicions are fine. They've been brought up to him many times and he understands them.

And you are right, there's nothing wrong with that, but people coming to this thread to decide whether or not to spend their money on it ought to know that before getting involved.

Again, even the most cursory research into the course will reveal that JM tells you that he received this from Hekate; it is entirely up to you whether you believe him. And if you are comfortable with Hekate and don't like this approach or don't think it's legit or worth chancing on, he points you to people more historically rooted! This is about all he can do in my opinion.

I've had a bone to pick with him for more than twenty years over a personal issue. This is me returning the favor. I have not the slightest interest in taking occult classes of any style.

The truth comes out! Why does so much nonsense gossip that's said online boil down to occultists not liking each other? It's truly incredible. If anything, you should have put this on your review from the start. As a community, I don't know what inspires this kind of ridiculousness. Even the art world isn't this bad. We should do better.

There's a difference between slander and giving his course a bum review.

Exactly my point. You could have had one without the other.

On that note, I encourage everyone to go over to the Book Shares and download the course, listen to it, and read the supplementary materials.

Plenty of people have taken this course and had favorable opinions of it. Others haven't been so impressed. There is not an inevitable opinion at the end of the SoH course. I suggest you use basic discernment and decide whether the style and content of this course is for you. If you are compelled, I also just recommend, of course, trying out the cash box spell or something similar and seeing if it works.

 

[Faria]

The truth comes out! Why does so much nonsense gossip that's said online boil down to occultists not liking each other? It's truly incredible. If anything, you should have put this on your review from the start.

If I had begun with that, it really would be slander. I was never in a position to put a case together for civil action. Fortunately I'm a patient person.

There are so very few people who are qualified to review anything in the occult, and by that I mean people who have read everything and experimented with nearly everything, whether or not they ever got anything for it. As one of those people, I'm offering my thoughts on what is arguably the best-known course on the market at this time. That kind of perspective, even if it is unwelcome, will help people who do not have the befit of that knowledge or experience.

The two types of people I see promoting this course are those who really are new and want to learn something, and those who see it as a community function. I want the former type to understand that not all of the old timers are on board with it, that at least one person who has actually read/listened to it had an unfavorable opinion of it. Most critics are either people who don't understand the occult, or people who haven't spent a whole week with Jason Miller in their ears, and so it's easy enough for prospective students to give him the benefit of the doubt along with their cash. I expect that between this thread and the fact that it's available for free, Jason will have to cook up some new income streams if he wants to maintain that middle class lifestyle from class revenue.

 

[darkphoenix]

I know a few who never inherited a thing, and live quite well as a result of their work. My first exposure to European magic was a guy who did actually have a model girlfriend, an expensive car, and his own very nice house. He got that from being a successful fiction author, not from selling classes on magic. His success was inspiring because he was obviously making it work for him. My first magical mentor was a guy who used demon summoning to win a major lawsuit against his city, and he won enough from it to buy a beach house, with no need to beg money from me. I was taught how to make infernal pacts by a guy who bought his own $3 million church and used it to collect sex slaves and free labor... there are indeed wealthy magicians of all sorts. There are several well-known music performers and famous artists who are practicing magicians... want to see their proof of success, just turn on the radio. Peter J. Carroll has been teaching people magic for free since the 1970s, and you can find him on the beach with a surfboard. If you insist on paying for classes, Oberon Zell has his stuff up for half the cost of Jason Miller's, and there's just no comparison between the two in terms of who's a real wizard. You go ahead and take podcast classes in how to make a prosperity box from a middle class advertising salesman, but realize there are other options.

While I agreed with some of your early general criticisms above, this is fucking appalling.

I was staying out of this whole argument, since JM isn't really my focus, but I get notifications each time this thread is replied to. And I saw that you said this.

You are a disgusting, disgusting, disgusting, D-I-S-G-U-S-T-I-N-G utter flaming piece of shit.

Please shut the fuck up about scammer occult teachers and fix your own broken morals. I don't particularly like or respect Jason Miller (like, AT ALL), but I don't think he's hanging out with sex traffickers, narcissistic model-chasers, and or demonic musician-magicians like P. Diddy. You probably are.

 

[Faria]

I don't particularly like or respect Jason Miller (like, AT ALL), but I don't think he's hanging out with sex traffickers, narcissistic model-chasers, and or demonic musician-magicians like P. Diddy. You probably are.

Yes, there are bad people in this world. Many of them are making good money from it. So, to be clear, having ever known such people makes me one of them? Interesting.

 

[darkphoenix]

Yes, there are bad people in this world. Many of them are making good money from it. So, to be clear, having ever known such people makes me one of them? Interesting.

You boasted about them and their crimes as if they were something to emulate versus a middle class occultist, in a thread about morals and money. So yes, you're one of them.

The fact that you don't see this, that you don't even see that your relationship with money is clearly even more immoral than the guy you're criticizing, is....kind of a mindfuck for me.

At least your post confirmed what a lot of people have suspected about wealthy occultists for years, and were called "conspiracy theorists" for saying.

May the most vicious reckoning of all come for your friends, and all who defended their actions. May there be no fucking mercy. May they get exactly what that healthcare CEO got, and much worse.

 

[stellarjourneyman]

For one thing, you were never in an opinion to put together any kind of statement at all, let’s be clear. There was some good criticism and insights against the course in this thread, but not by you.

What I was suggesting was that you flag that you have a personal vendetta in the review. Only fair to share that you might be biased.

I expect that between this thread and the fact that it's available for free, Jason will have to cook up some new income streams if he wants to maintain that middle class lifestyle from class revenue.

You are very out of touch if you think you or Wizard Forums have that much sway over a clientele which is largely “ordinary people with ordinary jobs who don’t care about the Occult Online Discourse and liked an interview they saw of him on YouTube.” I assure you that is a huge number of people taking the course. Most of them don’t even know how to scry yet, are busy with their normal lives and have no idea this place (and you) exist. And thank God for that, for all the reasons the previous poster outlined. (Even if they weren’t, you are very much delusional about your own performance here lol)

 

[Faria]

So yes, you're one of them.

May they get exactly what that healthcare CEO got, and much worse.

I guess it's not a proper occultist debate without someone wishing death on a stranger.

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 1:46 AM

You are very out of touch if you think you or Wizard Forums have that much sway

If they use Google, they're probably going to find this thread. If they want a preview/peek at the course, they're probably going to get it here. This place has been the go-to drop box for anyone not on the bz site looking for scans and PDFs, for years. There are very few other occult discussion sites, and none hosting such a diverse library on site.

 

[stellarjourneyman]

And none of that matters because they’re not terminally online in the ways you are lol. They operate mostly via ordinary people social media. Most absolutely do not know or care about you, and even if a few of them stumble upon this site, you have given plenty of them reason to distrust you in this thread.

 

[Azerate]

Jason Miller is too long in the occult scene, he had several hundred students, so the claims that he was a fraud are simply not sustainable.

My opinion is that Miller's method of working with Hekate is valid, authentic and requires daily practice from students.

If someone doesn't like this approach, they should choose something else.

I've completed the Jack Grayle and Jeff Cullen's course and i didn't notice that they were more original and authentic than Miller.