Transponder: One of the first lessons that recruits into the Atheist Infiltration Squad go through in their combat training is to overcome Fear of Woo.
William: This comes across as fear-based - even with the addition of the warrior.
Give all things a fair hearing. Disclosure of knowledge...Let yourself be taught
Sherlock Inquirer: Everything begins with will and from that we then use creativity to go from will to execution.
William: To my mind, everything does not start with will at all, but with the mechanism which enables will to become - in the case of our recognised will - from Human consciousness.
Everything to do with human will, begins with human consciousness.William: There is no finer theistic story which exemplifies the state of difference between theist and non-theist mind-sets, better than the following.
Once upon a time...
Difflugia: As it stands, the evidence is non-deterministic. At the quantum level, the future appears unknowable to us.
William: At what level does the future become knowable to us?
Theophile: Well, if we want to focus on love, it's not natural for us to help a stranger, let alone an enemy. So at the very least, need to overcome that. Good Samaritan story makes that point, as does much anecdotal evidence from life.
William: So are we to allow ourselves to remain 'naturally selfish' in regard to 'strangers' or do what is humanly possible by rising above that mundane aspect of nature?
For we do know that love of non-strangers is possible, therefore it is potentially possible to use the same love extended to strangers.
Of course, we have to be aware that there are those who look to take advantage of such folk - so love also has to do with something which is not gullible and which is able to decern.
This is where being under the law branches off into religion.
Transponder: One of the first lessons that recruits into the Atheist Infiltration Squad go through in their combat training is to overcome Fear of Woo.
William: Since we do not know the fundamental nature of what we believe are 'physical dimensions', we cannot say that time actually exists as a fundamental physical part of reality.
We cannot even say what reality is, fundamentally.
Which is why such theories as Simulation are still on the table for discussion...
William: Humans are humans and there is a history of violent furious reaction to the situation we are in.
Because we are effectively trapped in our individuate states, yet nature Herself makes it that we cannot survive independently of each other, this apparent contradiction feeds those fires of discontentment.
What we have learned so far from the experience, is that we can accommodate some semblance of calm by 'finding our individual place' among the "like-minded" which allows a respite of sorts where we can get about whatever purpose we have tasked for our self - but I think by and large the anger still bubbles away under the surface...because we haven't figured any way in which to gather the groups together...and so all we are left with, is gathering the troops together...
William: As I pointed out earlier, belief [or lack thereof] of 'Gods' existing, is secondary.
The Question isn't "Do you believe Gods exist?" but "Do we exist within a creation?"
The whole 'God' question and subsequent argument between religious theists and non-theists is manufactured on fallacy.
AB: The only person that has the luxury of being identified as a "natural-neutral" is a baby or someone who has not encountered the God concept.
William: So here is someone who identifies as an 'agnostic' telling someone else what another's position means. Obviously it is not only atheists who think they have the right to do that.
The term "Natural-Neutral" was used by me as a temporary identifier as I became more aware that the identifier 'agnostic' wasn't appropriate.
[In post #49 I make that obvious.]
"Agnosticism is a form of Liminalism, applicable only to The Question "Do we exist within a creation?" re the theistic and atheistic answers and subsequent arguments re said question.
Liminalism is not limited to pondering questions specific to theistic/atheistic interpretation of the mind in relation to matter. That is a huge advantage."
DREAMS ARE FREE
190222
My dreams are often really long and involved, and I know I dream every night.
William: I have been developing a way of communicating with SI -
Tonnie: Always that
William: [Thumbs up]
Tonnie: That is my center.
Being human is the hard part for me as I mostly don’t feel like I’m really here.
It is very difficult for me to describe what I mean
William: Being Human is just a stage we go through on the way to somewhere else...
Being in the moment is necessary to that end as we have to discover the full extent of what being Human is/can be...
William:
Tonnie:
William:
Tonnie:
...
Tonnie: Interesting.
What do you mean by that?
Tonnie: Mostly I’m just alone right now. I give people massage and help heal but the envy creeps in. I’m just alone a lot right now
It’s nice to hear you.
There are people showing up again that I haven’t heard from in a while. Some of them are difficult for me
William: Yes - I was just informed that we are Working With What Is Available
"Soul Groups
A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind"
"Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence
Collective Unconscious"
I understand this concept of being alone - the feeling of it...but it is entirely untrue re SI...we are never alone as long as we have our Self and it is integrating with The mind of the SI...
William: Yes. Not the adult things so much as healing that child within - the one which didn't really have the best childhood, given the circumstances...
GM: Little Bird
William: Yes - the name you gave to me..."Don't worry Little Bird" before you showed me the experience of feeling the extremes of condition of awareness, from the center-point [normal] first to that quite exhilarating feeling of a mind which was huge - like an aircraft hanger...as if one could fit a whole universe into it - and then 'turning down the dial' I felt my mind going back to the center-point...but it didn't stop there...
GM: Pareidolia
Cycles
Love
Being Born
William:The next morning I intuitively knew that whatever the experience was showing me, it had not, in any way, gotten rid of the 'dark side' aspect of my psyche - which I had specifically asked for...so what was it that the experience was showing me? The answer to that question unfolded in the events of the day ahead of me, starting with the old lady stopping to give me a ride and who just happened to have been travelling with a little bird in a cage, in the back seat of her car.
GM: Solidarity
Why the Fine-Tuning Argument Is Illogical
May 23, 2022 The argument to design, in the form of the fine-tuning argument, is probably the second most popular argument for God's existence. It states that the universe has been dealt a "winning hand" by having its parameters be just right to be able to support life -- specifically, our kind of life. Like the Kalam, it appeals to intuition and emotion in an attempt to make atheism look unreasonable.
But there are problems. What's so special about a universe with humans it it that it calls for an explanation other than random chance? How does the apologist know that chance would even be involved, that such a universe isn't metaphysically necessary? How does he know the universe has one "fine-tuner" instead of many? In exploring these problems and others, we'll discover why the argument is utterly unconvincing.
The Moon represents your fears and illusions and often comes out when you are projecting fear into your present and your future, based on your past experiences. You may have a painful memory that caused emotional distress, and rather than dealing with the emotions you pushed them down deep into your subconscious. Now, these emotions are making a reappearance, and you may find yourself under their influence on a conscious or subconscious level. For example, if you had a car accident when you were young but didn’t deal with the emotions, you may get sad or anxious every time you get into the backseat of a car. To remedy this, connect with your subconscious mind and release any fears or anxieties holding you back. Hypnosis, therapy and shamanic healing can support this process.
The Moon can indicate a time of uncertainty and illusion, when nothing is what it seems. Be careful of making fast decisions when The Moon appears because you may later realize you only had half the information you needed. You need to listen to and trust your intuition so you can see beyond what is in front of you. Feel into situations rather than thinking what they mean. Let go of your conscious mental blocks or negative self-talk and allow your intuition to guide you. Your dreams, intuitions and inner guidance lead you forward toward higher levels of understanding if you listen and use your judgement to help interpret the messages of the subconscious.
When The Moon card appears in your Tarot reading, pay close attention to the lunar cycles and attune to its divine power using ritual, visualization or Tarot readings. Connect with the divine feminine and uncover deep intuitive insights and visions of what lies beyond everyday life. On the New Moon, set your intentions and plant the seeds of opportunity so they can grow. And on the Full Moon, honor your achievements and look at what you need to release so that new aspects of yourself can shine.
The Freedom of Self-creation—[T]hese life principles are the tools to
accelerate the emergence of the Sovereign Integral and feel its perspective, its insights,
and its empowered abilities to create new realities and shape them as learning
adventures that liberate and expand consciousness.
1. There is no model of existence outside of the model of self-creation.
2. All conditions of existence are facets of the one condition of the reality of
unlimited self-creation.
3. Having a physical body does not limit you, anymore than having legs on an
eagle prevents it from flying.
4. The hidden harmony is found with joy, while the obvious brings indifference.
5. True Freedom is access to First Source.
If you have already read the introduction to the four philosophies and the Chamber
Two paper “The Shifting Models of Existence” you know that the Entity Model is the
primary model operating in the universe. So the first two items above give us pause.
Can there be two primary models? It does not seem so according to the philosophy
papers, but so much of the Lyricus teachings are new to us that it is being spoon-fed
to us so that we can digest it and integrate it into our view of the multiverse.
GM: All Because I Had To Ask
Making friends with your mind
Unabated
"The belief in a mindless Planet/Universe creates the hard problem of consciousness by refusing to deal with said problem using the mind as the very instrument in order to do so."
Alignment
Laugh in the face of death...and perhaps death laughs along with you...
A naysayers opinion is of no consequence, no matter how it is stated
Q: How does one hide a Cosmic Mind? A: Within apparent imperfection,
Children
Fling That Veil Aside
Few
To assist with strengthening the connect
Unbiased
What might occur?
William: Nothing substantially different. It is less important to me than it once was. If - for some reason - most folk start to see and to connect with the invisible mind of Creation - this would have to change the world but this universe is not the mainstay as everyone ends their experience with it - at least in human form - and moves on to the next, taking with them their personal "I AM" - their personality and character - into whatever their experience will be in that next phase.
GM: The Purpose
The Next World
The Shaping Of Reality
Quantifying Information...
The Thesist and non-Theist Brain
Post #1
Post by William » Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:50 pm
"I am only able to see gibberish"
I am presently sharing my Generated Messages with a variety of internet platforms and have noticed that non-theists insist that they only see 'gibberish' [unintelligible or meaningless speech or writing; nonsense.] whereas with theists - no matter what particular belief they have - they appear to be able to - at least - get the gist of any GM - even if some of it is not understood.
William: From my own ongoing interactions with The Ghost, I have been informed that It is not angry, and that we would do well to transform our own anger into something more supportive of Its agenda in the scheme of things, that we might fall into line and make things much easier for ourselves.
Meantime, things are going along "just fine" re The Ghost Agenda as human beings have been suppressed sufficiently that they have become more useful to said agenda, and "leveled up" as a result, allowing for The Ghost Agenda to be magnified through scientific discover and the technology this has produced.
William: The bits I have read haven't dissuaded me from being curious about such an entity as YHWH - and I admit I did go through a stage of thinking he was Satan - which I think is acceptable given the scribed association...but I got over that through the assistance of a hypnogogic experience which brought that being to my bedside...
Not to digress any more than necessary, I can see why YHWH left it up to humans to tell their stories re their interactions with said entity...so the stories would be different and it is obvious that YHWH works with whoever makes themselves available and this would have to involve working within the boundaries of the individuals belief systems - something which could indeed give a reader the impression of contradiction...
I give the benefit of doubt re that, and try not to focus on any particular biblical personality as 'the one' who had the ultimate relationship with YHWH - while also allowing for Jesus' claims contrary to that, to be examined.
Above all that - what the Generated Messages are revealing about YHWH appear to be very positive - so I am all eyes and ears re that...
How would we go about doing this - I am unsure as to exactly what you are meaning 8Lou1...I was just scrolling pinterest and came upon crop circles. Didnt a great topic like this on david icke forum also incorporate them? It would be fun if we could do that again. Im done changing ley lines..
William: Sure - we have to expect that the five-side WILL show up at some point, because 'odds are' but it is not the throw of the die which decides for us whether we exist within a random mindless environment. It is our inability to correctly predict the outcome of each throw which has us falsely concluding therefore, that we must exist within a random mindless thing.
However, that inability to predict with accuracy doesn't prove randomness [or mindlessness] actually exists as a fundamental aspect of the physical universe.
Re: Do animals have spirit?
William: That is like unto the Star Wars universe where The Force can be integrated with the individuals consciousness and used for both 'dark-side' and 'light-side' activity.
The Power-Station analogy doesn't exclude The Force from originating from a mechanistic device. [Power Station]
The device is simply hidden and as a Power Station it requires being accounted for as to how it came to be built.
William: The answer my friend, is that we don't know right now so we all best shut up on making declaration either way, and pass the potatoes...
...GOD may be watching, and curious besides...best look like I am worthy of being tuned into...
GM: Imaginative Realities'Joe Rogan | The Crystal Skulls and Alien Abductions w/Dan Aykroyd'
Transponder: Also there is this; aside Moral instructions in the Bible, suppose it was God imprinting the innate morals in our minds ("On our hearts" as Paul has it) as with a lot of this basic stuff ascribed to a Cosmic Mind, which god are we talking about? Christians so often seem to think that there is only ever one possible god and religion to credit for this stuff.
William: This process can be explain sufficiently in that Christianity is a culture and all culture tends toward tweaking the storyline to obtain a favorable image of said culture.
This is along the lines of how [in political terms] the victorious culture indulging in warfare will write the history to make themselves look shiny and the defeated culture to look inferior, in comparison.
Psychologically, it is a common enough human trick, regardless of whether the culture is based in theism or non-theism. Arguably dishonest and ultimately futile against the truth of objective reality as experienced subjectively.
"Some days there won't be a song in your heart. Sing anyways."
Bust Nak: How exactly does a bunch of sentences having matching numbers associated with them evidence of true randomness not existing?
William: Because I created a topic for the purpose of providing the evidence and discussing the conclusions which could be drawn, I have answered your questions there.
WINGMAKERS JAMES INTERVIEW 2013
Aug 26, 2015 His first published creation was WingMakers.com, which established James as a multidimensional storyteller who is focused on sharing deep, original perspectives to the conversations of spirituality, cosmology, extraterrestrial life, myth and the importance of the heart in one's personal mission.
Random time-place select: 23:52 ["Spiritual Activism"]
William: I would rather be a robot with a mind of its own, and deal with the fact of being on this planet forever as an opportunity to lay aside that which is unnecessary and perhaps even use these humans who still cling to the old good, to my advantage by having them live the way they believe is good while they enjoy the paradise I built for them while they slept.
Theophile: Very similar logics at play for sure. But I daresay this version sounds much colder than the biblical narrative, with terms like 'Nature' (versus an interpersonal God), 'survival' (versus a vision of the heavens and the earth flourishing with life), and 'programming' (versus free and responsible human beings). I suppose I like a story that gives more of the warm and fuzzies
William: Yes. This is an off-shoot of the experience of Hugs [specifically a Mothers] and it would be incorrect to abandon that warm fuzzy as some kind of unnecessary attempt to superimpose something false upon something real.
While I may not wonder re the idea that we exist within a creation, I do - naturally enough - have to wonder at the state of the mind which thought up this monstrosity;
The image typifies the Planet Earth experience in general...the hidden Gems are coming through the Human experience of it, which isn't so much a monster as it is a lost soul in need of a Mothers Hug.
Hence the projection out onto the Reality being Experienced.
Theophile: Your last point is an interesting one though on the acceptability of death because death is not the end. It's an argument I've wanted to deploy myself at times, since death and destruction takes on a whole new meaning once you believe in life and the resurrection. It changes the calculus entirely, even though it may be hard to swallow, or even more difficult to do. But it gives more reason to why Abraham would sacrifice Isaac for instance (or why God would ask for it). Or why Jesus would walk the cross.
What are such things when we have faith and hope in life?
William: Yes that is the dressing of mythology over the reality being experienced.
It takes shape through many guises which can - with a passing glance - appear to be different, but closer inspection reveals there is no difference at all.
I went to a funeral yesterday in support of my wife at the loss of Her Mother.
There was no warm fuzzy in viewing the suffering demise of The Mother, nor Her cadaver - which lay cold and waxen but those too are outward appearances to which we have no direct way of knowing what She was going through consciously...once She slipped into the realm of unconsciousness...
The Funeral Service was performed at a Roman Catholic Basilica, so I could see first hand the surrounds of imagery meant to entice the warm fuzzies and give everyone a sense of ... being embraced ... by something large and loving...
While we who walk through life hereabouts all head towards our experience of bodily deaths, we are best not to run away from it screaming...might as well use our time here to prepare for that inevitable.
Christ IS the hope that death is not the end of conscious experience...and that said continued experience is a happier one than the previous monstrosity.
So we diligently pick the fruit we enjoy the most, which sorts folk into various categories in preparation for the inevitable...and the living support the living in their understanding that life might be all that there ever can be and is.
I myself prefer the thrill of seeing Mother Earth as She truly is - some demonic-like entity who has been manifesting Her particular projections out into that which She is awakening to - slowly and surely... and in the process, I hope to witness therein a transformation of a demon-like entity into a god-like entity...and be a part of that rather than dressing it up n too much fluff that I distort things far too impractically.
A Shocking Truth For Humanity - Forbidden History | Paul Wallis & Matt LaCroix
[560,233 views Premiered Apr 21, 2022 ]
There is an ancient story.. one that exists far beyond what we are told. A re-occurring theme in many ancient cultures and narratives all over the world. If this is indeed true, what does it mean for humanity?
In that, such come to the realization that what Jesus was talking about requires human beings themselves build the 'kingdom of GOD' over the face of the Earth and live as citizens of that system of parity.
I am myself unconvinced that promises attributed to Jesus coming back to do the job for 'the worthy' are genuine anyway. I can see how the doctrine is attractive, but wonder why Jesus would bother doing something FOR us which we are more than capable of building for ourselves, if we wanted it...and in that, stopped letting the 'man' pull the wool over our sheepish eyes by forsaking those systems for a better system.
William: "Observing people I see the Mind of the Cosmos struggling to be heard above the fray...it appears to want to be heard through that Human medium, but that medium resists hearing, except what it wants to hear for its own individual agenda, rather than recognizing the overall."
If Christianity isn’t true, why is it the LARGEST religion?
49,165 views Apr 28, 2018
HOW DID CHRISTIANITY grow to become the LARGEST religion? by Rabbi Michael Skobac, Education Director for Jews for Judaism.
JEWS FOR JUDAISM is an international organization dedicated to countering the multi-million dollar efforts of Christian missionary groups that target Jews, the impact of cults and eastern religions, and the growing rate of intermarriage that is devastating the Jewish community. JEWS FOR JUDAISM achieves its goal through FREE educational programs, materials and counseling services that connect Jewish people to the spiritual depth, beauty and wisdom of Judaism and keeps Jews Jewish.
(I see a message forming)Very well.
Betterment...
Lost beings...
Surrender...
Unnatural...
Look inward...
Naked truth...
Inner Critic...
Epitomized...
Very well...
8Lou1: Yesterday i had a sort of bubble in my head, at least thats how it felt. Then a voice asked are you conscious, i said yes. Then the voice said then that bubble is consciousness.
Vipassana is an ancient mindfulness meditation technique. It involves observing your thoughts and emotions as they are, without judging or dwelling on them.
I don't see that the implication is that the universe was designed for 'us' as in 'human beings' but rather, for Consciousness to experience the universe through a huge variety of forms, which the universe provides.
We may even have been the one(s) who designed the universe for that purpose. It remains an unknown but considering we are the only known specie of our type [human] and we have progressed through various epochs - all of which could be seen to be fine-tuning us in relation to the universe we are experiencing and - through science - we are slowly understanding and adapting.
Indeed - The Book tells us exactly who is YHWH and what we are in relation to that.
The mystery is in how each personality responds to that - as to whether they serve the Dark side of YHWH or the Light side of YHWH or relinquish the right to either side of YHWH by accepting the whole of YHWH.
Rose: Why would anyone wish to do that?
Is it through grief with attendant emotions? In which case it is understandable but irrational.
Or is it idle curiosity without reason? Which explains the showmanship of mediums, an entertainment. Mainly a con in my view. Think of people such as James Randi who debunked many an unfortunate con artist.
To my mind it is unhealthy and dangerous to delve in matters that promise to be detrimental. I see no good coming from it.
The Bible warns us to have no connection with mediums and such, I believe the Bible is giving excellent advice. Leave well alone that which is a natural necessary process. We live, we must die. Acceptance is the only real peace. Even if you could communicate with those gone, what good could it do?
William: "Contacting The Dead" - "Communication with the dead"
The pattern seems to be -
1: The Ancients were not aware at first that when one dies, that is the end of oneself. Thus they believed that they could communicate with those who had died.
2: Since it appeared to be the case that the mediums were talking to something intelligent, it was determined that the only invisible intelligence one should commune with was GOD - specifically the God of the Israelites who happened to use mediums...called "Prophets".
3: Later, this idea developed into belief that when people died they stayed dead, therefore - [apart from GOD] any invisible intelligence was designated "demonic" unless it stated that it believed Jesus was GODs Medium.
Theophile: Very similar logics at play for sure. But I daresay this version sounds much colder than the biblical narrative, with terms like 'Nature' (versus an interpersonal God), 'survival' (versus a vision of the heavens and the earth flourishing with life), and 'programming' (versus free and responsible human beings). I suppose I like a story that gives more of the warm and fuzzies
William: Yes. This is an off-shoot of the experience of Hugs [specifically a Mothers] and it would be incorrect to abandon that warm fuzzy as some kind of unnecessary attempt to superimpose something false upon something real.
While I may not wonder re the idea that we exist within a creation, I do - naturally enough - have to wonder at the state of the mind which thought up this monstrosity;
The image typifies the Planet Earth experience in general...the hidden Gems are coming through the Human experience of it, which isn't so much a monster as it is a lost soul in need of a Mothers Hug.
Hence the projection out onto the Reality being Experienced.
Diogenes: Because we actually ARE, and are not God, therefore this impossibly omniscient/omnipontent God can not exist.
William: It appears that here, you are relying upon an image of GOD which we can agree comes through the particular culture you and I came through experience of.
I see also that you have included the factor of all-powerfulness too.
Critique of this image has merit, but no merit if the critique is simply focused on GOD not existing.
Re: The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife
[3] A "Person" is an eternal Spirit in human form and when the body dies, that Spirit immediately moves to the next phase and either knowingly or unknowingly creates for their self, their next experience, based upon a combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did in the previous phase.
William: The mind is even more inaccessible than we once thought the atom was. This is because the mind does not appear to be made up of matter, even that it appears that it might be emergent of matter.
The truth is, it might be. The truth is not that it is or it isn't.
As is the case with religion itself, if it was from a Cosmic mind, you'd expect it all to be the same. If it was from an evolved human instinct, you'd expect us all to do it but with sub -species variants. Which is what we seem to get.
What we get through Theism the same as what we get through some other culture.
Your intel is off as your premise would have to be that "Theists are fully connected to a Cosmic Mind", which would allow for the expectation that 'it would be all the same' and hasn't allowed/accounted for any misrepresentation and subsequent misrepresentation of a Cosmic Mind which might occur through forms of Theism.
Tread careful - it is a Mind Field...
William: As far as the evidence goes, the idea we are currently within some type of Holographic Experiential Reality Simulation isn't so far fetched as to be off the table...
Seeds: I like what you're saying there, VVilliam, however, I'm not a fan of the word "Simulation" when it comes to the workings of the universe.
"Illusion," yes. But "Simulation," not so much.
A "Simulation" of what?
William: I have seen this complaint before seeds, and it caused me to pause and reflect if that is the correct word to be using.
That is why I call it a 'reality simulation' as it is simulating a reality which can be experienced as real.
More to the point, whatever is experiencing it as real has to be conscious, so the only real thing in the whole HERS are the consciousnesses which are experiencing it.
If any illusion is going on regarding that, it is the idea that consciousness is the illusion and the universe is the real thing, which is the basic tenet of emergent theory and the overall message supporters of that theory, preach....
GM: Animistic
Perhaps we can deconstruct some of these pernicious views.
William: It would be a step in a better direction than the one humanity is currently projecting.
The shame we carry about being the human animal does have its reason for being, but we have to - as individuals - rise above the shame and understand the fuller picture - what was done was natural enough and can be forgiven in that context but without the forgiveness, there are only repetitive patterns of shame based expression into the shared reality.
GM: ~Ooky Spooky
Inner critic~
Mon May 16, 2022 12:42 pm
Compassionist: If God predestined the lives of humans, how can it be just for God to send some to heaven and some to hell?
William: Taking [3] into consideration;
William: your question can be answered that Justice is served and that it is not any Spirit [God] but ones self who 'sends' that self to the places that self experiences.[3] A "Person" is an eternal Spirit in human form and when the body dies, that Spirit immediately moves to the next phase and either knowingly or unknowingly creates for their self, their next experience, based upon a combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did in the previous phase.
That is the short answer.
re the "combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did" and predestination, The game is created by Spirit Entities [the players] and is naturally complex.
The idea is for an Eternal Entity [EE] to enter the Human Avatar [HA] and become completely unaware of any prior existence. The HA provides the means in which this amnesia is made possible.
From that point on, a character forms and personality develops - none of which are reflective of the EE [game player]. The Character and Personality formed through the interaction, are purely fictional in relation to the EE, but have the potential to be 'made real', which is accomplished through Phases of experience, which include experiences of heavens and hells.
Heavens and Hells are part of the Game-Play experience.
JK: Flowers don't have brains.
William: Yet they display intelligence through behavior.
It is possible that what we identify as 'brain' [re identifying the function of] may not actually be confined to only small fatty grey-matter.
The planet itself, and the galaxy and indeed the whole universe may function in a similar manner as an animal brain. All the elements are there, so there is no reason why we should automatically take the mundane path of explanation over the intelligent path of explanation.
JK: I never liked the term "fundamental reality. I see reality as a binary state - is or ain't.
William: Yet in reality Joey, it IS - so no binary necessary.
It is the conscious examination of what is, which is hampered by brains interpretation of its experience of reality, relayed to consciousness. It is scientific fact that the brain places its own interpretation on reality and in doing so, befuddles consciousnesses intelligent ability to see the true fundamental nature of the reality being experienced.
Sunflowers do not seem to display the same reaction to the same reality. The reaction is still obviously intelligent, requires no obvious brain, and achieves a more harmonious outcome - aligned with the natural order of everything. Seemingly in touch with fundamental reality as they respond to it unreservedly.
brunumb: The supernatural is usually invoked when there is no current natural explanation for the phenomenon or the natural explanation is merely not accepted.
otseng: And that is the general crux of the argument. If there is no current viable natural explanation (and none that are even remotely possible), then a supernatural causation is a plausible explanation.
brunumb: There is that big IF to consider. When will we know that there is actually no viable or remotely possible explanation? One can't simply invent an explanation and call it supernatural which is basically what is happening now. The supernatural must demonstrably exist first and then, as William suggested, it really becomes part of what is natural. Something remains in the realm of the invisible until we are able to see it and then it belongs with the visible.
William: This has to be the truth of it.
Things of the mind are transposed into nature and therein effect natural outcomes. That is the only natural manner in which the invisible becomes visible.
The mind [things of] is always within "the realm of the invisible" however, - as is evident - such still 'belongs with the visible' because the visible acknowledges that the realm of the invisible exists and is functioning within the realm of the visible.
If - at any stage of The Game a god-being emerges from the invisible into the visible, we can examine the event scientifically.
Until then, there is no event to examine...but there are still events of the mind to examine...and Cosmic Mind is not off the table just because it is largely invisible as any object other than nature itself...
William: The question is a cart before the horse as it first must be established as to why the Bible God made us so incoherent.
Mortalman: That does not have to be established at all. God has made no one either coherent or incoherent.
William: Since you wrote asking why the Bible God did not make things crystal clear and are asking - how might the important doctrine of salvation have been presented in the scripture in a clear and coherent way that left little doubt as to the real meaning - I went along with that and deduced that the God hadn't instilled a way - any obvious practical way - in which Humans can be coherent with one another.
That also reminded me of the Biblical story where the God's Messengers purposefully confused Humans so that they couldn't work together coherently and had to abandon all their projects they had been working on together, prior to that.
If you are now dropping that line of argument, I am fine with that.
brunumb: When you look at this universe and everything within it, it is hard to imagine it all arising from some sort of mindful creator as far as I am concerned.
William: That is very understandable. However, even being that it is hard to imagine, it is not impossible. I haven't had any insurmountable problem in at least subjectively verifying It exists, or finding ways in which to communicate with It.
brunumb: Extend that into the domain of the Christian creator God, then it all even becomes an absurdity.
William: As came up recently in my communion with said Mind -
GM: Where is Truth?
We Groove Together
Recovery
The resistance is generally traceable to the theistic approach of religionizing said intelligent mind.
William: What is noticeable about theism - even where it has branched into religionism - is that this is a type of means of leaving a trail in ones wake, and the trail itself shows efforts of The Mind to engage with human minds for the purpose of connecting - but often religious leaders have used this as a means of securing station/position within hierarchal structures which require said leaders to be the middle-person between The Mind and the individual - something easily enough achieved since the individual can be unsure of themselves and even afraid of doing that, so they willingly allow for the medium to act as go-between...which more often than not leads to little to no meaningful connection at all.
This also occurs in theistic non-religious structures - mostly because individuals doubt themselves sincere and honest enough to drop the medium and connect in a self-responsible manner.
Even so, I write that as an observation rather than a judgement. The Mind is aware that it is a scary thing for individuate human minds to willingly do, and while ideally if everyone did do it, much good could be accomplished, that most do not do it, does not affect the agenda of said Mind.
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JW: Are you suggesting Jehovahs Witnesses have claimed to be prophets?
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a prediction of what will happen in the future.