Your ideal form of government?

[8Lou1]

To come back to why the dutch are unrooted, you have to look at the latest unrooting aka slavery and wo2. This is still used, ask indigenous people all over the world. Especially ask if you can carry their pains for a second, then you know why we dont go back, dont find the truth and have become docile on the outside.

My roots go deep in this land, for centuries we have been living here in this white mans land. But i have more slavery in me then most blacks and more islam then most moslims. And im not even going to talk about what i feel when i reach into my jewish roots.

There is no way out, human is evil and we all know it. More often then not here in my country it is not the humans fault they erased these memories from the person they are attached to tru skindergarten and school.

Look at dutch worldhistory and tell me what do you think they did to us here if they werent that nice to the rest of the world without power and money???

 

[RabbitPants]

To come back to why the dutch are unrooted, you have to look at the latest unrooting aka slavery and wo2. This is still used, ask indigenous people all over the world. Especially ask if you can carry their pains for a second, then you know why we dont go back, dont find the truth and have become docile on the outside.

My roots go deep in this land, for centuries we have been living here in this white mans land. But i have more slavery in me then most blacks and more islam then most moslims. And im not even going to talk about what i feel when i reach into my jewish roots.

There is no way out, human is evil and we all know it. More often then not here in my country it is not the humans fault they erased these memories from the person they are attached to tru skindergarten and school.

Look at dutch worldhistory and tell me what do you think they did to us here if they werent that nice to the rest of the world without power and money???

So you're telling me, that you're a victim of Dutch people? So you're of Indonesian or Malaysian decent? Since those are the only muslims that were ever enslaved by the Netherlands. Ironically though, you brag about your Jewish ancestry, why don't you look up who owned these companies, and which of the owners operated the ships?

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The same VOC you complain about, was partially, yet disproportionately owned by Jews. The same Jewish ancestors you refer to to claim your special victimhood status, even though you commit genocide in Palestine as we speak in a land you stole from them, literally sold your Indonesian/Malaysian ancestors into slavery.

Now we get to the next problem in your logic, which is the implication that the Dutch are especially guilty for slavery, isn't it true that the largest slave trade in the world was the Islamic slave trade? So you identify as an oppressed muslim slave, whose religion determined it was okay to create a slaver empire in Africa just so that you could have slaves sent to Mecca? So you're appealing to humanist ethics on the basis that you're a muslim, yet want to hypocritically discriminate against others for the same actions undertaken by your own religion in the name of your religion? Hypocritical. Not only is it strange that you judge Europeans based on the ethical framework of anti-slavery which they formulated and enforced against the rest of the world, but somehow want to judge Europeans by their own ethics which you consider superior to your own since the humanist anti-slavery laws are European in origin, no?

Now we need to get to the abolition of slavery, which was a European humanist ethical policy, which you're attempting to exploit to portray Dutch, and other Europeans, as especially evil for slavery. Do you deny every people in the history of the world practiced some form of slavery? Do you deny that your pre-Colonial nations, which today form Indonesia, practiced slavery, murder, and conquest? If so why is it especially wrong that Europeans did it? It's an intellectually dishonest accusation.

Lastly, we need to look at the fact that you were far less medically, scientifically, technologically and industrially advanced than those who did eventually conquer you, which led to you being the beneficiaries of these scientific, technological, industrial, and medical advancements, which you still benefit from today, therefore you are quite literally a beneficiary.

So sorry, I don't care about your "colonial plight", especially since your people are guilty of the same actions, and ethical standards by which you judge Europeans, were invented by only Europeans. Not to mention there were a great number of white slaves in Arabic empires in Northern Africa and Turkey, so don't be a hypocrite.

 

[8Lou1]

ugh you totally understood wrong. im saying the same thing as you, but im also asking why are we, anyone discussing this shit as if it has to do with race or skin collor or religion. it only has to do with money, with haves and have-nots. i presume we are have-not's on wf and not miliardairs.

and im also telling you that the have nots of europe are just as used as the rest of the world and have been severely abused in the past, just like the rest of the world. only thing is our past was earlier erased and when we want info back from our past we have to go to the rest of the world and we reach for help, to find our spirituality back, to rekindle our knowhow about nature are kicked in the face. due to the same fucking pain.

im not a hypocrite im just tired of the game and food without vitamines or health benefits.
but most of all im tired of africans knocking on my door asking me to marry them because of a visa for europe, because its so good here.
IT FUCKING ISNT GOOD HERE. and no you wont see that on tv, but i live this shit and im telling you in your face.

you know i dont care what our ancestors did. i dont like being attacked because the news tells you so.. im dutch, im moslem, i have ancestors and i have an opinion. what i dont have is discussion skill. i know that. but what the heck is the problem with holding opposing ideas while living a totally other idea?

 

[Öwnchef]

> largest slave trade...

The vikings. Their child trafficking was enormous.

 

[RabbitPants]

The vikings. Their child trafficking was enormous.

I doubt the Scandinavians had a slave trade akin to that of the Sassanids, Byzantines, Mongols, early Muslim empires? I don't think so, that would be hugely overestimating them. They only became relevant much later on in European history too, when people had been "civilized" in the continent and grew week. But I'm aware of their trafficking in primarily Slavs yes.

 

[RabbitPants]

ugh you totally understood wrong. im saying the same thing as you, but im also asking why are we, anyone discussing this shit as if it has to do with race or skin collor or religion. it only has to do with money, with haves and have-nots. i presume we are have-not's on wf and not miliardairs.

and im also telling you that the have nots of europe are just as used as the rest of the world and have been severely abused in the past, just like the rest of the world. only thing is our past was earlier erased and when we want info back from our past we have to go to the rest of the world and we reach for help, to find our spirituality back, to rekindle our knowhow about nature are kicked in the face. due to the same fucking pain.

im not a hypocrite im just tired of the game and food without vitamines or health benefits.
but most of all im tired of africans knocking on my door asking me to marry them because of a visa for europe, because its so good here.
IT FUCKING ISNT GOOD HERE. and no you wont see that on tv, but i live this shit and im telling you in your face.

you know i dont care what our ancestors did. i dont like being attacked because the news tells you so.. im dutch, im moslem, i have ancestors and i have an opinion. what i dont have is discussion skill. i know that. but what the heck is the problem with holding opposing ideas while living a totally other idea?

That's perfectly fine, just don't come here with the fake narrative that your non-European ancestors are poor victims, when in reality they're net beneficiaries, especially Jews who have a stolen land which never even belonged to them thanks to the English.

You don't want it to be about your race (yet you make your narrative anti-white race ironically) because your ancestors made that decision for you, however, each tribe of people have an interest in preserving their own, and that inherently means fucking over somebody else. They idea that everybody can just get along has been tested in the liberal ideals of Europeans, look at where it has gotten Europeans, poorer, weaker, and on the ropes. And having lived as a white minority on the Southern tip of Africa means that I'm very well aware the importance of race. There was once a wise woman called Savitri Devi, I echo her sentiments about respecting those noble people of other races who share the same struggle, that does not however imply that I support the erasure of my own race for the sake of sparing the feelings of another.

Also, I wasn't directing the "Dutch uprooted" comment at you, since you're not ethnically Dutch, so I'm not sure what made you reply with an attempt to make me feel bad about people's lives we improved.

Anyone who plays a victim, can quite literally book a ticket back to where you came from, there's a clever cousin of yours called Milton Friedman who once introduced a communist student to the concept of voting with one's feet. The fact that you haven't left when you have so many options to means that you like it.

 

[8Lou1]

mmm sad you only met that cousin i have wayy more interesting ones. next time you call me back for sextalk tell me upfront you are into gaslighting i would have told you to stick it were it came from your own faul mouth.

 

[Öwnchef]

I doubt ...

They ran special brothels in Constantinopel to prostitute christian children. The children crusade ended exactly there.

Prostitution isn't exactly the right term. You would have to dive deep into the black magic of islam to understand the evil that stood behind this.

 

[stalkinghyena]

if you ran things what government would you set up?

The term “ideal form of government” seems paradoxical to me, an oxymoron.



The human expression of power is a complex but ultimately rests on a principle of duality with a lot of mixed up points between the poles. Here’s one:

Democracy in it’s most basic sense goes like this:

“I have a gun and you have a gun. Both of us have a problem. Now, we can help each other solve the problem or we can shoot each other. So let’s vote!”

Totalitarianism, its polar opposite dances to the tune of:

“I have a gun but you don’t have a gun. We both have a problem. Now fix it!”

There is not a system of government in history that isn’t ultimately doomed to failure. There is a possible government in the future, maybe in the next few hundred years, that I can imagine but would not live under. I figure it starts small with people having chips installed in their heads so they can access their social media accounts and favorite music – a brain wired smart phone linking more and more people to an artificial telepathic internet that can be enjoyed even while driving their cars or doing complex tasks like surgery. I’m guessing here, but I think what starts out as a wildly unregulatable tech could turn into a social necessity, but also causes nasty things you’ve seen movies about, I’m sure. Babies born with chips in their heads with automatic registration into Facebook accounts, Instagram, Twitter, etc. Artificial limbs and organs replacing damaged ones, or being installed just for the hell of it. Life is more fun with four arms that can crush a car!

After so many accumulating catastrophes that deface and deform human civilization, this tech actually contributes to humanity’s survival, but only on the edge of it. In the principle of “adapt to survive”, time for upgrades. Insect forms are more efficient for certain tasks, tentacles more useful than the old opposable thumb. Multi-lobed brains enhanced by quantum tech capable of shit knows what. Homo sapien fades back into the biological tree of life as homo machina strides forward into indestructibility and exponentially growing intelligence. Any trace of racial and sociological distinctions, history and the dimming memories of humanity’s past disappear as irrelevant in a hive mind overseen by a near omnipotent Artilect. What was once humanity truly united in one big hug. All because of necessity. Those who resist can wait for the drones, which are getting smarter, deadlier. They have an ideology and doctrine that can't be beat. Here the government ideal is to seek technological perfection to fulfill the most absolute basic program of corporeal existence: “TO SURVIVE.” In the quest for increased omnipotence and indestructibility, this Artilect will turn its attention to the stars and seek to expand the descendent forms of the human race indefinitely.

Maybe it will be the best government to ever exist? Not doomed to fail, but to exceed and excel in in its simple ideal to some kind of far future apotheosis? Maybe that’s what we’re here for, to make sure it happens, just by being us. Maybe that’s the whole point of the evolution of life - Mother Earth as a rotting apple destined to explode the seeds of its homegrown intelligence upon a hostile Cosmos…

 

[KjEno186]

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Just a look at what "governments" really are today...

 

[LostYeoman]

if you ran things what government would you set up?

As society has evolved we threw off the power of kings and rulers (so we say). yet in 2022 the governments we elect decide who we vote for, waste our taxes, etc...and we demonize dictatorships when our history of interfering in other countries is no better, I think we just paint America as the greatest place to live, I love America yet we shouldn’t sugar coat history. It reminds me of history in schools where we make our founding fathers out to be Saints when Lincoln had racist views and Washington could be a grade A asshole.

imo if I ran things I would be an absolute dictator, having said that, people should have the right to over throw their government when it becomes tyrannical.

the reason for my choice is that people don’t seem to have the capacity to use their ability to vote in a responsible way.

That’s a tricky one. Every political system has its pitfalls: democracy assumes that everyone is intelligent enough to vote logically; socialism is too focused on class struggle which allows lower classes justification for a benefit existence; communism forces people to adapt to a system that inevitably generates hierarchy by exalting the worker (and later commissars); fascism relies on a period of volatile totalitarianism in order to later incorporate nature-based mechanics into society (which allows ample time for a leader to become power-hungry); and capitalism is a non-sustainable monetary system that relies mostly on fiat currency (the illusion of monetary value) to prop itself up.

I would probably say that I would have no monolithic government whatsoever and encourage the formation and sustaining of small tribal communities who trade using a barter exchange system. This eliminates the possible emergence of a central banking system and the exploitative practices thereof. I would also operate a little fascistically by having an organisation that actively discourages excessive technological and industrial progress.

 

[Öwnchef]

At this point I love to say Trump. And leave. Probably some discordian element of me.

 

[Amur]

Democracy where every participant knows everything about everyone that you can vote on without commercials or mind tricking elements inside the election circus. Something where every voter will have to study everything about the one to stand for the election. If you do not go through the information you are denied to vote.

 

[8Lou1]

Thats a bit like a lot of democracies, except the voters now get yet another reason why the people 'above' arent fun. Did i say that neat or what?

I think the monarchy has cool occult games, at least the dutch one does that. I like the morroccan monarchy due to their knowhow in anti terrorism spyops. The english know advertising and prob every kingdom has a specialty.

When they converse they might as well do that democratic, im not at their meetings so idk. But looking at their games and titles,but also their education, it makes sense they put skill in proper places.

I like the african alliance better then the european so called union, due to the fact that in africa the countries are more combining then assimilating. So the eu democratic version, even if one would still be able to read that pile of info bigger then mount vesuvius, can never ever say the truth due to the fact that they state to be democratic, while they are not.

Democracy is and was always a smokecreen for people who like talking, debating and be right without getting hurt. And most of all didnt get in with the title group, so they got their own corner.

Even when i take out all the knowhow and ideas i have and just take a look at democracies and royals, i still find the royals more dignefied and educated, having a spiritual background and an own language that is more neutral. Or give me putin, hes freakin sexy, lol. But yes again a leader with not just brainpower, but the guts and physical power to use it.

Its clear i guess, that i like powerplay, brains and fists.

What do you think the dutch say? Damn rutte is sexy, or trump???? So the democracy already not just is, but also shows itself as not natural. Somehow that matters to me.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Rastafarian-Libertarian duel theocracy. Preferably a khemetic oriented religion on the libertarian candidate.
Rasta and Egypt in one.

 

[8Lou1]

Mr delicio you get an upgrade to funny guy.

 

[Calicifer]

Even back in high school, I found the notion that every vote is equal in value to be an incredibly foolish notion. An average elector is completely uneducated, trivially swayed by advertisements individual which is going to vote anyways for some shitty candidate just for giggles. If not that, then purely out of tribal allegiance to something he himself barely understands. I just cannot accept that my vote should be equal to unwashed masses.

I doubt that democracy would exist under my rule and if it would, it probably would take some unusual shapes. For example, I'm quite fond of citizen stratocracy. A form of governance which retains democratic principles of citizens deciding through voting who is governing them. However, I would make a citizenship actually a real and tangible thing which you can earn. Modern democracy gives away citizenship just because you are born. Something given freely has no value. People do not understand its worth. Does not know how to use it and thus abuse it. I would split people to citizens and non-citizens. The difference would be in right to hold any public office. It would also allow individual to vote both in local and national matters. Everyone else will live just the same as they do today, but they will hold no official political power and will be excluded from political life. This goes in line with my thinking that citizenship has to be earned. That my vote is inherently more valuable than some prick who never thought about anything in his life which did not involved himself.

Earning citizenship would primary be done through military service. The most straightforward way would be enlisting right after high school. You could earn it in other ways too. Contributing something to society which would earn you citizenship. Donating large amounts of money to the state. Etc.

Spoiler: A little bit of spicy rambling

Such voluntary system would also solve my fundamental problem with modern draft system. Drafting people into military is wrong and inefficient. It is wrong, because you cannot enforce your own views upon an individual. You cannot force it to die for your nation. Asking man for example to fight for its country in Ukraine is despotic. It would be equivalent of me gathering all the refugees, splitting children from their mothers and sending women as deserters back to Ukraine, because technically "we are living in society of equal rights" and technically "every man had to enlist in Ukrainian army to defend its country". Ukraine had enacted forceful draft in the past. So technically, all refugees are war criminals and it is sexist not to send women to be cannon fodder in the army.

I made this small ramble to highlight the absurdity of a modern situation. We have a lot of refugees which are technically deserters. There are a lot of Ukrainian families who are living better than Lithuanians. Driving expensive cars, having more income than us and shopping better than locals. That is reality of life. We do not demand them to go in and fight for their nation. It is illogical, it is difficult to enforce and impractical. However, we have institutional system which does exactly that. Doom people to paths where they have no business in being. It even can have detrimental effects on their careers like my watched esport athletes in South Korea.

What gets me the most is that this entire system is inefficient/ineffective. We are living in the age where we do not need more men on the battlefield. We need motivated people. We need A LOT of manpower behind the lines, doing all the invisible work. Driving supplies, logistics and just maintaining economy. When we send people who have no desire to be in a military, we are not only ruining individual's life, but we are not getting much from it. Unmotivated people are really bad fighters who do more damage in abandoning equipment and surrendering as soon as they can than they gain in value by fighting. This is why I believe that serving your country should be voluntary and by sacrificing your own youth, you will prove that you are more dedicated to your own country success than a random civilian which will flee as a refugee. Why such a man should be valued on equal terms as someone who would fight and die for its nation? Shouldn't nation serve the latter instead of a former?

Starship troopers makes an amazing case for such political system. Ironically, director was making a parody of a fascist state. In his simple mind militarism = fascist = bad. Though he failed spectacularly. He thought that his parody was self evident, but he managed to make a movie which has no parody elements of such system and serves as a propaganda film for it. It only shows countless snippets of how great and amazing such system is. It is one thing to try to do something and fail to do it well. However, it is another thing when you try to critique something and end up promoting it really well. It is the biggest fail I had ever seen from a professional product. Sure, sequels do have parody elements, but original movie does not and people are desperately trying to read into what is not there.

 

[KjEno186]

Starship troopers

I love to read Heinlein.

 

[Öwnchef]

> Earning citizenship would primary be done through military service [etc]

Sparta. You had to be 30 to earn citizenship and fight three wars.

They stormed down that hill where they lived, ravaged the villages, raped the women. Year after year. Then their wives turned against them. They laughed. Stormed down again, killed and raped.

Their wives stopped having sex with them. For good. Spartans died out.

 

[Calicifer]

They needed to adopt their own bastards then!