[Help] Searching For REAL Magic

[Pestifer Mundi]

Nah. An average man, or a good man, would understand that you need to build relationships and offer the universe respect and reverence.

You just think like a rapist, and you think you can rape your way into being a successful magician. But the more you try that, the worse your very rude awakening shall be.

Maybe the universe likes it rough and its waiting for an occultist of the new era to dominate her

 

[Alfher]

The only irony I see in this thread is your ignorance.

Enjoy making a fool of yourself, though. You won’t be the first, and you certainly won’t be the last.

 

[Pestifer Mundi]

The only irony I see in this thread is your ignorance.

I am very ignorant when it comes to anything occult

Enjoy making a fool of yourself, though. You won’t be the first, and you certainly won’t be the last.

I find it weird that I have to state something so obvious, but we all look like fools here from the outside looking in within this modern age of science and technology

You can claim you've done the things you've done but there's really no way to verify whether you have healed your eyesight, treated peoples ailments, performed an exorcism, etc, its all hearsay, it can't be verified

You really think the average person reading what you said doesn't think you are ignorant or foolish?

That's why the limitations you are imposing are so ironic

Once again, thank you for the advice, I've already found some old grimoires and papyri downloads, but try and look at this from an outside looking in perspective and see how funny it is what you're saying

To everyone else reading (random people who are browsing, not actual members of the forum) we are two crazy people arguing over whose crazy beliefs are "the real deal", their line of what is possible is no different than your line, its just drawn a lot closer

Having no line (my preference) is a neutral starting point

 

[Alfher]

Nah, see. That’s why you’re particularly ignorant and foolish, far beyond any of us here.

You have no idea where my lines are. You have no idea what my practice consists of, or how far my sights are set on the path.

I told you to let go of your expectations, not lower them. I told you this because your expectations and prejudices are preventing you even from properly comprehending things written in this thread, much less The Mysteries.

If you had taken time to be respectful and build relationships, you might have learned that I am in fact one of the extra crazy bastards who does study immortality. You might have learned that I spent several years studying and practicing Psionics, and I actually know a fair bit about Psychokinesis and how to do it. You might have learned that my limits are far broader than most occultists, and that I am happy to discuss the mysteries with most people.

But you are so rude, disrespectful, and ignorant that I am left with no desire to be your friend or discuss anything further with you.

So as I said, enjoy making a fool of yourself.

It will bring you more harm and hinder your path far more than you will ever know, because not all of your elders will be compassionate enough or patient enough to type out a message like this for you, hoping you will learn a bit of wisdom before you run into the next opportunity the universe offers you.

 

[SkullTraill]

I see @Alfher has already called you a fool, so I won't bother reiterating that.

TBH I find it kind of ironic to be speaking about something as grand as "MAGIC" or "OCCULTISM" and yet trying to impose limitations

I don't care what you find ironic. The world doesn't have to fit itself to be unironic by your standards with the assumptions you have on what magic is/isn't.

I would assert that there are no limitations to the possibilities but instead limitations to our knowledge and the time required to acquire said knowledge

Then assert it and shut the fuck up. We do not agree.

I have a lot of minor goals, here's one, moving a small object directly with just the intent of my mind (not using my body to move it)

Not possible.

But I also have a major goal, the goal that many occultists in the past hundreds of years before me have pursued, immortality

Not possible in any physical sense.

That's where my obsession with the philosopher stone comes from, the idea of "the elixir of life", the idea of creating something that defies the limitations of the world that we know of SO FAR

You might say the minor goal is just as impossible as the major goal, in fact that's what I'm expecting based on what you've said so far, but in my book these are still goals worth pursuing regardless. especially since occultists from the past who actually had access to "the writings of old" pursued these goals too, they didn't just give up and write these things off as impossible

Immortality has been something always sought after by occultists through the ages, so I find it funny that the occultists of the future have basically "lost their spirit" and given up completely. Who knows if an immortal already walks among us in this world because they succeeded. If I ever achieved such a feat I would obviously never make my existence known

No. I wouldn't say the minor goal is just as impossible as the major goal. At least one could argue that some sort of spiritual immortality is achievable. But no one with any sense would say that moving a physical object without using some kind of external force is achievable. It's laughable.

The way you guys speak about magic, is as if "magic, has lost its magic" so to speak, there's no more passion when it comes to magic, there's no more drive to surpass limitations, only walls that one must accept

You think that, because you came into this discussion/the occult with obscene and offensively stubborn expectations.

To me that is the antithesis of "the spirit of occultism"

To me, you've just outed yourself as a "larper"

Magic has lost its "spark", or to be more accurate, practitioners of magic today have lost the vigor and spark that those in the past had

Typical "larper" argument.

You say my expectations are too high, I say your passion and ambitions are too low

No one cares what you say. You came here with ridiculous pressumptions and asked us questions, with the lunatic expectation that we would feed into your roleplay fantasy.

You have to see how ironic of a mindset you guys have when it comes to occultism, because if that mindset is carried to its logical conclusion, nobody would dabble in occultism to begin with, because the most realistic expectation to have when it comes to this modern technologically advanced scientific era, is that occultism is nonsense and none of it is real

Either/or fallacy.

The line you guys are drawing in the sand is a very ironic line

To a fanatic roleplayer, maybe.

In the end, it's obvious. You're the larper. You came here with an XY problem (read this:

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), then when no one agreed with your roleplay fantasy, you start overusing the word ironic, and spewing other fallacies multiple times each comment.

This has crossed a line into borderline trolling at this point, so I encourage you to read our rules here: [Rules] - Official WF Rules

 

[Scottish_Pride]

TBH I find it kind of ironic to be speaking about something as grand as "MAGIC" or "OCCULTISM" and yet trying to impose limitations

I would assert that there are no limitations to the possibilities but instead limitations to our knowledge and the time required to acquire said knowledge

I have a lot of minor goals, here's one, moving a small object directly with just the intent of my mind (not using my body to move it)

But I also have a major goal, the goal that many occultists in the past hundreds of years before me have pursued, immortality

That's where my obsession with the philosopher stone comes from, the idea of "the elixir of life", the idea of creating something that defies the limitations of the world that we know of SO FAR

You might say the minor goal is just as impossible as the major goal, in fact that's what I'm expecting based on what you've said so far, but in my book these are still goals worth pursuing regardless. especially since occultists from the past who actually had access to "the writings of old" pursued these goals too, they didn't just give up and write these things off as impossible

Immortality has been something always sought after by occultists through the ages, so I find it funny that the occultists of the future have basically "lost their spirit" and given up completely. Who knows if an immortal already walks among us in this world because they succeeded. If I ever achieved such a feat I would obviously never make my existence known


@Alfher
The way you guys speak about magic, is as if "magic, has lost its magic" so to speak, there's no more passion when it comes to magic, there's no more drive to surpass limitations, only walls that one must accept

To me that is the antithesis of "the spirit of occultism"

Magic has lost its "spark", or to be more accurate, practitioners of magic today have lost the vigor and spark that those in the past had

That's to be expected when we live in this modern age of science and were speaking to eachother through computers, I can't really blame you guys tbh, it makes more sense to think they way you do, but I just can't do it

You say my expectations are too high, I say your passion and ambitions are too low

You have to see how ironic of a mindset you guys have when it comes to occultism, because if that mindset is carried to its logical conclusion, nobody would dabble in occultism to begin with, because the most realistic expectation to have when it comes to this modern technologically advanced scientific era, is that occultism is nonsense and none of it is real


The line you guys are drawing in the sand is a very ironic line

Its like - "I can heal my eyesight and exorcise demons (which shouldn't exist), but give up on creating fire, that's too unrealistic"

Everything mentioned so far is "unrealistic" to begin with so I have no reason to doubt that more is possible

I am grateful for all of the input but I think I'll end this back and forth here as our perspectives on the occult couldn't be any more different

If I place mental limitations on myself I wouldn't even bother pursuing this path to begin with, because I'd place my limitations even further behind the line you guys drawn, and assert that "none of it is possible"

Think of normal jogging as the typical spellwork you see, and sprinting with the speed of Usain Bolt as the fireball shit. Is it possible? Maybe with enough effort. That is, if you train around the clock like Usain Bolt does, and don't slip up over years and years and years. That's probably why a lot of the videos you see of "real" physics-breaking stuff are done by isolated monks who are over 80-90 years old.

 

[SkullTraill]

I know nothing about magic

Remember this.

Don't spew your delusional assertions on what you think magic should be as facts that actual practitioners with years of experience should follow as gospel.

You need to check yourself and re-evaluate your tone and stubborness. Before you get banned for trolling.

You've been given multiple recommendations on reading materieal, so I suggest that rather than subjecting us to even more of your verbal dysentry that you do a bit of reading, a bit of thinking, and come to us with questions if you need, rather than crackhead assertions of what magic is.

 

[WalkerOfSorrow]

Remember this.

Don't spew your delusional assertions on what you think magic should be as facts that actual practitioners with years of experience should follow as gospel.

You need to check yourself and re-evaluate your tone and stubborness. Before you get banned for trolling.

You've been given multiple recommendations on reading materieal, so I suggest that rather than subjecting us to even more of your verbal dysentry that you do a bit of reading, a bit of thinking, and come to us with questions if you need, rather than crackhead assertions of what magic is.

I fear I've come into the thread too late, but I wanted to share my perspective. My wheelhouse is so-called "energy" work, which kinda got thrown under the bus.

This is an excellent illustration of the property of physical essence. It stifles, resists, and breaks down. It obscures sensation, and halts psychic development. Unless it is put to proper use.

A lot of these fairly common expectations are purely physical? What would it solve to telekinetically roll a ball bearing across the desk? You are psychically capable of moving your hand to control the ball instead. This is an asset coveted by spirits too frail to create the physical force required. You don't have to move it with your mind, because you can move it with your hand.

You can start fires with a lighter. You can make a fireball with hairspray. These were all magic once, because science lacked the power to produce these effects. In the age where the chinese invented black powder, that was magic. You could say it still is. Magic has not changed, science has improved, and skepticism has increased. In a 4th century village, people would believe you if you said there was a werewolf. Now many people would doubt, even if they did not seek proof.

Science is magic, a form of ritual that relies on rigors and evidence.

If you're looking for real magic, look to the power to shape horizons, often misused for deception. Look to the power to motivate minds and move hearts, often misused for brainwashing. If you control how people think and act, you can build civilizations, start or end wars, destroy forests, raise the sea. If you crave physical results, on a scale your mere hand cannot accomplish, look beyond yourself. Look to the people around you, and the consequences of everything you do and say.

 

[The God-King]

I'm not looking for anything as vague as "an experience", I'm looking for something to "actually happen" based on my intent

Here's a simple example, me being able to visibly levitate and move an object with intent (specific speed, trajectory, etc)

An "experience" is more like something like a "seance" where people channel/summon a spirit and then it throws a bunch of random stuff around the room

Not only can that be staged, but if you did the "real deal" you are now this weak physical being completely at the mercy of an "ascended" spiritual being, that doesn't sound very smart

If there is no "control factor" its not "magic" in my book, in the same way that randomly mixing chemicals together isn't "science", you would just be haphazardly playing with forces you can't comprehend

There has to be some kind of structured method of learning as there are many texts describing groups that practiced such things, but its like all that knowledge is lost and/or hidden so modern day humans are stuck throwing random stuff at a wall and hoping something sticks lol

Like some kind of really old book from which you can read, learn and practice and slowly grow your knowledge and ability, safely, so you don't overstep your bounds and wind up killing yourself or someone else

By your definition, a "seance" that you and you alone set up and perform should be acceptable since everything is in your control and nothing is staged.....unless you staged it yourself.

As for structured learning.....you must not have looked very hard. Those "really old books form which you can read, learn and practice" exist and are in abundance. You just have to know what to look for. Googling "old magic books" won't help. You have to know exactly what you're looking for. The problem though is that those really old books weren't written for you. They weren't written for millions of people to learn and study from. They were written for small groups of adepts (usually priests, nobles, royals and other such well off and educated people) who already knew the basics. If you don't know the basics then studying from a really old book won't help. If you're looking for structured learning you shouldn't focus on books but on groups from living traditions. Go on Facebook Groups, Facebook Events, and Meetups.com and search for occult and/or magical groups in your area. Groups like The Golden Dawn, Thelema, other Western Esoteric traditions, folk systems of magic, even some Gnostic groups that promote the study and practice of magic such as the Johannites. Qabalistic/Qlippothic groups also tend to structure their teachings in a easily digestible way such as the Dragon Rouge.

 

[Pestifer Mundi]

Think of normal jogging as the typical spellwork you see, and sprinting with the speed of Usain Bolt as the fireball shit. Is it possible? Maybe with enough effort. That is, if you train around the clock like Usain Bolt does, and don't slip up over years and years and years. That's probably why a lot of the videos you see of "real" physics-breaking stuff are done by isolated monks who are over 80-90 years old.

Its kind of sad that you are the only person so far to reply asserting beliefs like this

A lot of these fairly common expectations are purely physical? What would it solve to telekinetically roll a ball bearing across the desk?

I thought it would be obvious that this would just be a "starting point"

Imagine if every person could move building sized objects with their mind and it was common knowledge taught in schools

The world would look quite different, certain machinery would probably have never been invented, a lot of jobs wouldn't even exist, wars would have been fought differently, etc

So telekinetically rolling a ball bearing across a table would solve a lot if honed and taken to an extreme, its just a starting point, like a test of feasibility

There's a reason why telekinesis (psychokinesis) has been a common thing researched by various military groups across the world

You can start fires with a lighter. You can make a fireball with hairspray.

Alfher in this thread claimed they healed their own eyesight, well they probably could have done that with laser eye surgery too or some other procedure. So if we go by your logic should they have not bothered to learn any of the things they did which allowed them to heal their own eyesight?

You can only say "start fires with a lighter" because you exist in an era thousands of years ahead of "the days of old". Science one day is going to reach a point in which it functions as if its "high magic"

One day nano tech will be able to repair wounds on the cellular level making healing virtually instantaneous. Would being able to heal a wound with the wave of your hand be any less amazing in that era? (I don't think so)

Science being able to "emulate magical concepts" doesn't make doing a specific task via magic any less amazing, if anything it makes it more amazing because its defying a confirmed reality of the modern era - "You can't start a fire with your mind, that's make believe nonsense"

Science is magic, a form of ritual that relies on rigors and evidence.

I get what you are saying, but you know full well that if a man shocked you with a taser gun and another man shocked you with bolt of electricity projected from his hand of equal voltage, you wouldn't treat those two situations as the same thing and think "science is magic"

You wouldn't be thinking - "Should have just used a taser gun bro"

Go on Facebook Groups, Facebook Events, and Meetups.com and search for occult and/or magical groups in your area. Groups like The Golden Dawn, Thelema, other Western Esoteric traditions, folk systems of magic, even some Gnostic groups that promote the study and practice of magic such as the Johannites. Qabalistic/Qlippothic groups also tend to structure their teachings in a easily digestible way such as the Dragon Rouge.

Thanks for the advice, however I doubt there are any groups like that in the country I live in

Its not developed to the point where many people would be unconcerned enough with "modern everyday problems" to take time out of their life to engage in such things when they have to worry about rent, bills, etc (COVID has also really done a number to most economies across the world, especially for small business owners)

If such a group does exist the people in that group are leagues above my socioeconomic class, there would probably be some kind of fees involved, and I'd always be the "odd man out" either way

Plus I'm starting to get the idea that for most people magic is mostly about "what you let happen" and "what you experience" (ritualistic), rather than "what you will into happening" and "what you can directly observe" (practical)

The path I am on may entail that I pursue it alone, which I will even if to my own detriment

 

[WalkerOfSorrow]

Lasik surgery and nanotech are not comparable to what I said. Hairspray, a lighter, and especially an empty hand are mundane. They are easily accessible for little money and intuitive to use. Your answer was to instead go for a highly sophisticated, expensive, and bleeding edge direction. You don't need to. Whole point of my hand comment. No god or spirit would be likely to give you power to miraculously move a ball or lift a can, when you have the power to do that yourself.

As for whether magic would let you move buildings with your mind, that gets into the other important thing I said. The real power is in controlling people. You are tilting at windmills when the answer is in front of you. What's more, you've established that you're looking to crack the code to brute-forcing physics for instant, extreme gratification without the consequences. you're not looking for magic, you're looking for a cheat. That's never been what magic is, outside if contemporary fantasy fiction. Historic magic has always been about correspondence, perception, and the mind. About influencing grand scale changes at a grand scale cost. It's not something you smoke, distill, and sell on the shelf, no more than a veteran brain surgeon's unique field of experience is. Medical training is publically available, but not the unique blend of practice and mistakes that created that great surgeon. No two specialists are the same, not can they mass produce the best results of surgery for all patients. Because every human body, and every surgery attempt, occupy different circumstances.

Have you even studied the forces you seek to bend over your knee? To change how objects gravitate, you would have to change mass. To propel the object forward, or steer, you would have to introduce thrust, or warp space. To cause ignition, you'd need fine control of molecular and atomic interactions. How do you propose to do that? With your mind? Your brain doesn't have the amperage needed to exert that kind of force. So you would at least need access to a higher level of energy. Let's say you have magic that would even let you use the power source to accomplish this, what kind of source do you have access to? What means would let you interface it with your brain?

 

[WalkerOfSorrow]

When I make use of sensual essence, I am not interacting with physical objects bound to laws. I am using my senses, and my ability to act upon those senses, to alter the world of perception. My perception. If I wanted to alter someone else's, that would take a different skill set. Suggestion, empathy, analysis, cooperation. By these things, I learn of the differences between my perception and theirs, and combine forces with them to guide a change. I can't just wave my hand and make them see a green gnome with a pointy hat, with no prior exposure, no wearing down of mental blocks. No one can.

When I explore the psychic realm, that is technically all occuring inside my mind. By reaching out to thought signals I have learned to detect, I can create a space in my mind that I allow that person's unconscious to define. I simulate their mind, give symbol to their thoughts. Can I literally hear their thinking like a chatroom? No. But I have once sent an image with no verbal prompting or clues of any kind. That is not something I can just do with any random stranger. It takes a level of trust and connectedness for two people to be that close.

You know what you can do with little or no prep? Punch someone. Hit them with something. Grab their arm. This is the beauty of the physical, which you seem to lack the perspective to appreciate. You want to punch them with your mind, and that is not what minds do. Don't go to a mind for the hand's work, just like you don't walk on your pancreas or eat with your lungs. Not everyone has the physical abilities you do. Don't take them for granted.

 

[8Lou1]

Maybe the universe likes it rough and its waiting for an occultist of the new era to dominate her

Just talked to the Lady and she wasnt impressed. Humans raping the universe That i wanna see, she giggled. So i showed Her all the plans and things they've done sofar. You know what she said? I'll rape that lil' nitwit myself, so he knows what it means to use such big words, with no backup. Just to honor his new found title..

Now that's a Woman!

Ps: the rest of this fun playdate will be in the lounge....

 

[The God-King]

Thanks for the advice, however I doubt there are any groups like that in the country I live in

It costs nothing but a few moments of your time to check, rather than assuming no one in an entire country studies or practices magic because of bills and covid. By that logic there should be no churches, mosques, synagogues or other religious temples and buildings in your country since no on has time for spiritual things cuz bills.

 

[Ang3l]

It depends on what you refer as "real" in the context mentioned by you in the original post.

 

[Drezuli]

You'll never experience the fun stuff like teleportation and shade shifting, or even real mind control, because you simply don't have the right pedigree for it. You would already know it if you did and would be advanced with that already.

Such "real magick" exists and is beyond mainstream scientific understanding.


The best you can do is spend some time with the indigenous communities in Mexico or Southwest US to observe some it. Doubt you'll be able to do that.

Other magical traditions exist in pockets all over the world and they're often forbidden to tell or write anything about it.


The best you can do is to just practice astral projecting and remote viewing. You can do that. Anyone can. Everyone does.

 

[Mider2009]

Hello, I know nothing about magic that is worth knowing, I am a blank slate, and I've been searching for years.

I am sorry if I come off as rude with what I have to say next.

I kind of feel stupid typing this out based on the level of delusion I've seen in my many years of searching the internet for such knowledge, but I'm hoping there is atleast one legitimate practitioner on this forum, that would hopefully atleast be amused enough by my plea to start me along the path, because for the most part it seems like REAL magic is hidden and kept secret.

I've even tried searching on the deepweb but the deepweb search engines never turn up any results, couldn't even find a page or a forum

Based on the years I spent searching the internet, I think most people who are into magic/occultism are:
1. Delusional (they have not tested their beliefs in any legitimate way)
2. Larping (its just a fun hobby for them, they don't care if its real, and they think people like me are "taking things too seriously")

I however do truly believe in magic and that there are actually real life practitioners of magic that deal with real world issues, and use magic to affect actual reality (to affect the world around them).

Maybe I'm also delusional for even believing that real magic exists, that may sadly be the case.


In my book, if your magic is merely theoretical and you can't use it to do something "tangible", something that can be observed and tested in front of your eyes and affect physical reality in front of you, then you are just delusional and the "magic" that you practice isn't real (since there's no real way for you to know if its a placebo or not).

I've scrolled through this forum and seen all manner of posts by users claiming they've used "energy" to create a "protection field" or something like that, but how did they test that field?, what was their criteria to determine whether the field failed or succeeded?, etc.

It all becomes really frustrating looking for real magic in this world, because deep down I truly believe it exists, but its just "hidden in the background", and most people are content with self delusion and/or "make believe", but for me its not enough

I NEED THE REAL THING


I'm looking for guidance (or atleast a push/hint in the right direction) from an actual practitioner of magic or some form of occultism (alchemy, psychic, etc)

I'm looking for a specific task that if I complete would have a real life effect that I can observe, not something that takes place in "my minds eye", not "astral projection during lucid dreaming", not whatever other nonsense we've all seen a million times that conveniently can never be observed and tested in real time

So to the real practitioner(s) that is(are) reading this, I hope you hear my cry. I know there is more to this world than what meets the eye, and I want to be a part of that more

The best thing you can do is learn yourself or find a teacher...don’t go from spirit to spirit, art to art. Use common sense

 

[Mider2009]

Just letting you know right now don’t think you’re going to see levitating or gold fall from the sky...even in kaballah God works more through nature then miracles

 

[Roma]

In craft Freemasonry there are 3 stages given in the progress towards being a mage:

- Entered Apprentice has to become ethical/moral and establish right relationships. This includes within the subconscious of the brother. This takes most humans many lifetimes.

- Fellowcraft is told to study "the hidden mysteries of nature and science". Nature only admits those that have made suitable progress on relationships, and who have worked hard on the hidden mysteries. Very few Masons make much progress on the work of the FC.

- Master Masons have only oblique references to their work. If they have made good progress with the hidden mysteries then parts of the work will unfold before them


In my view this sequence applies to any form of spiritual (inner plane) science

There are of course later stages.

 

[Roma]

don’t think you’re going to see levitating or gold fall from the sky..

Some years ago I read about "harvesting" what one had contributed to the greater good. Late one week I decided that I had contributed more to the planet than I had taken and wanted to harvest some of that excess.

So the next Monday, on my way to work, I was standing the station queue waiting to swipe my card to exit - as I had done for a decade or more. And just in front of me fell a 2 dollar coin. The person in front was facing the other way and no coins were needed for the exit, so it was not hers. So I picked it up.

Next day, standing in almost the same place and another 2 dollar coin falls just in front of me, apparently from nowhere. I pick it up.

Nothing on Wednesday.

On Thursday, another 2 dollar coin falls. By this time I have worked it out.

I claim I am worth more and they agree and are paying it 2 dollars at a time. I'll fix you guys!

I turn to the woman behind me and hold out the coin saying: I think this is yours. She takes it.

And that is the end of the coins from heaven.