A thought on learning

[Öwnchef]

You need a certain level of energy that I don't have right now. I am down with salt in my body. Still 3 days Corona and I can seek help. Never felt so shitty in my life before.

 

[Mider2009]

Imagination and creativity are keys to magic. These can be qualities found in both arts and sciences.
Magick is the art and science causing change in conformity with will.
So, it might be useful to concentrate on a blend of art and science limited by imagination and creativity held under will.
The lust for results stops magic in it's tracks.

More rambling

Who cares

If you want measurable results that pertain only to yourself, then you might try using tarot and your intuition, sharpening your intuition, that might open up clairvoyance and clairaudience for you.
Of course .. if you are looking for scientific results, then you would have to figure out how to prove that clairaudience and clairvoyance to others, like say Jonathan Edwards.

my issue is that this thread is about discussing the fact that understanding something opens one up to new possibilities

idk why you’re giving other people advice or why others are discussing theoretical bullshit. you’ve read a ton of books, great, go practice em.

my best advice for people here is to pick up a book, try it, if it works keep at it, if you run into issues then stop

imo depending on the system it may be best to have a teacher as some systems can screw you up.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Mider,

I'm on the Neophyte curriculum moving shortly to Zelator. I honestly don't know what you expect.
Honestly, clairvoyance and or clairaudience might be helpful. I am currently reading a book in our library on this by Buckland. And I do practice.
Same with divination, the problem with this is everyone's the expert at it.
So, if they are, great. If not. I will continue as I do.

 

[DiLoco_DelEted]

Understanding and knowledge are necessary to practice(dare and will).
I agree.

 

[RoccoR]

General Occult Discussion
SUBTOPIC: A thought on learning
et al,

We do live in a causal universe after all. If I ever come up with scientific rationale for these theories I’ll be sure to let you know

(COMMENT)

I do not know how anyone can answer that address. (BUT) But I'll give it a shot.

In a previous posting, (somewhere around here) I introduce the scientific concept of: The Principle of Sufficient Reason. (PSR)
is another way of saying: "Casual Universe" The PSR explains that every event ... all the way back to the "Unknown" (beyond scientific explanation) force (or sometimes to the "First Cause)" that was the beining.

Even Richard Fieynman cannot explain the origin of the First Energy and he knows all the math [(quantum Mechcanics) + (Relativity)] - "our current physical theories break down" (another controversy).
.

if magick became science (which is what I hope for) it would be mundane

(COMMENT)

The merge of the SYFY Languages [(quantum Mechcanics) + (Relativity)] just does not work. And THAT pushes the current line of thought closer to a possibility.

REMBER: WE all have to understand the spectrum of this problem: The Faith-Based side and the Science Based Side. For now, humanity has to work through the unknown energy of the universe.
.

Quite lofty and fun, but it doesn't really mean anything tangible to me. Magick is a science, right? You can measure and record it.

.
(COMMENT)

Magic may or may not fit into the scenario --- but, it is derivative of the energy that is common to us - that is beyond us " (Dark Energy) teaming. in the universe.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

General Occult Discussion
SUBTOPIC: A thought on learning
Ownchef, et al,

Yes, this is one of the big debates.

Magic is not a science. That is wrong. Religion tries to be a science.

.
(COMMENT)

Magic is outside the ability to be examined by the Scientific Method, but then
so is String Theory.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Centh]

The merge of the SYFY Languages [(quantum Mechcanics) + (Relativity)] just does not work. And THAT pushes the current line of thought closer to a possibility.

REMBER: WE all have to understand the spectrum of this problem: The Faith-Based side and the Science Based Side. For now, humanity has to work through the unknown energy of the universe.

What does this even mean?

If magick became science (through measurement) then it might not use the old terminology, but it would use terminology. Also, this isn't a two sided thing. I don't know a whole lot of people who always trust religion exclusively above science. Religion and science aren't even on the same axes of discussion. Science is completely agnostic, it's religion that does not hold up to science.

I do not think unspecific language is very helpful.

 

[Centh]

And this is the first step towards learning: "I am wrong, I merely don't know how."

Can prove it's real?

 

[Centh]

My reputation proceeds me.

I don't go by Maxwell anymore. I don't know what kind of response you expected from this comment. You're looking into a mirror. Your ramblings journal looks a lot like some of my journals on BALG.

I'm sorry if I offended you with how fucking god awful I am with magick. I'm decent with divination though. Want a reading? It would save me time, because I wouldn't have to read myself.

 

[Centh]

Precedes* FUUUUUUCK

 

[RoccoR]

General Occult Discussion
SUBTOPIC: A thought on learning
Centh, et al,

If I omitted a point that you thought was key and Germaine... let me know. Sometimes I just don't pick it up the first time around.
.

What does this even mean?

.
(COMMENT)

When you try to merge two dissimilar inquiries, then in general discussions the meanings do not match. What you think they said in not what they really said.
.

If magick became science (through measurement) then it might not use the old terminology, but it would use terminology. Also, this isn't a two sided thing. I don't know a whole lot of people who always trust religion exclusively above science. Religion and science aren't even on the same axes of discussion. Science is completely agnostic, it's religion that does not hold up to science.

.
(COMMENT)

•. IF magick became science (through measurement) then it might not use the old terminology: THEN they MIGHT not.
• IF you are using standard Test and Measurement Equipment (TME) THEN the entire setup will speak in a technological manner.

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(IONS) has been seen by the mainstream professionals like

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into the questions of inquiries. Many of us use TME to detect and exploit during evaluation. We speak in technical terms all the time. What has happened is that an overwhelming number of participants in Wizards Forum speak either predominately Faith-Based concepts or antiFaith-Based concepts.

But the science of Metaphysics is out there.

I do not think unspecific language is very helpful.

.
(COMMENT)

I cannot force people to correct the terminology. And, most forum members of the forum would not know that 3.4m is the wavelength at the very low end of the commercial Broadcast band (FM) while 2.7m is at the high end of the band. There are people out there looking for evidence. IF you can see an apparition, THEN you know it must have a footprint between 350nm - 725nm. IF you can see it (like those that talk about Near Death experiences). THEN at some point, someone is going to capture that evidence. Even now, I employ a Software Defined Radio (SDR) as one of my solutions.

The Science is out there.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Jarhyn]

Can prove it's real?

Can I give you an awakening?

You start out wrong about everything. Not-even-wrong, even. You didn't know how to add before you did know, you didn't know how to walk before you learned, you didn't know how to speak before you learned.

The whole scientific method is based on trying to test whether you are right, and the iterative process of it is founded on going back to re-address the model with new hypotheses.

The proof is in the fact that the scientific method and the application of sound logic and math put people on the moon, and in fact brought you these forums. This is all just based on the pattern of assuming we are wrong, and just don't know how yet.

In fact, I strongly suspect that Sin is just a metaphor for ignorance.

If the mind does not have the capacity to accept it is wrong about how the world works, it will hold onto that wrongness.

 

[Centh]

Can I give you an awakening?

You start out wrong about everything. Not-even-wrong, even. You didn't know how to add before you did know, you didn't know how to walk before you learned, you didn't know how to speak before you learned.

The whole scientific method is based on trying to test whether you are right, and the iterative process of it is founded on going back to re-address the model with new hypotheses.

The proof is in the fact that the scientific method and the application of sound logic and math put people on the moon, and in fact brought you these forums. This is all just based on the pattern of assuming we are wrong, and just don't know how yet.

In fact, I strongly suspect that Sin is just a metaphor for ignorance.

If the mind does not have the capacity to accept it is wrong about how the world works, it will hold onto that wrongness.

I mean, sit from that standpoint. Sit from where I am. I do not know if this intuition is real or fake. So I test it. The results are in: if there is such a thing as intuition, mine is garbage. Where do you even go from there?

 

[Jarhyn]

I mean, sit from that standpoint. Sit from where I am. I do not know if this intuition is real or fake. So I test it. The results are in: if there is such a thing as intuition, mine is garbage. Where do you even go from there?

Accepting that you can gain power from understanding the nature of probabilistics rather than trying to do an end run around it. Learn discrete math and probability theory well and you will again be empowered, not by your "lack of intuition" but by the statement "I realize that the way I have been trying to seek power within the system is flawed; perhaps there is some other way to accomplish the leverage I seek over systems in general"

When you do this, you can learn to count the cards instead of trying to beat the intersection of chaos and the die.

 

[Centh]

Accepting that you can gain power from understanding the nature of probabilistics rather than trying to do an end run around it. Learn discrete math and probability theory well and you will again be empowered, not by your "lack of intuition" but by the statement "I realize that the way I have been trying to seek power within the system is flawed; perhaps there is some other way to accomplish the leverage I seek over systems in general"

When you do this, you can learn to count the cards instead of trying to beat the intersection of chaos and the die.

Okay, so I'm reading multiple messages here. The reason I don't go well with unspecific language is because I am prone to be wrong when I do that.

"Accepting that you can gain power from understanding the nature of probabilistics rather than trying to do an end run around it."
Define power in this case. If I wanted to steal from casinos I wouldn't come to this magick forum. I'm here for magick.
You should know I am not practicing intuition on coin flips so I can win games of chance.

I want to hone my intuition so I can use it for everything else. Career decisions, guidance for my craft, etc. Intuition, provided I've been using it, can be used for just about anything. But I don't know if I even have it, really. I'm saying this with full confidence, despite the fact that I've been doing magick since I was pretty young and I've been divining since I was even younger. I'm of the school that you should act as if you know nothing until you can prove it. I have to measure intuition to develop it, flipping coins is a really simple and clear cut way of doing that. It's hard to scoff at 21 flips guessed in a row.

 

[Öwnchef]

This all comes down to a person walking in a dojo with a gun. Make it even a dojo forum. You will be kicked. Because you have no idea how the arts of self defence work. You just know how a gun works. Everybody does.

Learn what an art is. Or go. There is nothing in between.

 

[Centh]

This all comes down to a person walking in a dojo with a gun. Make it even a dojo forum. You will be kicked. Because you have no idea how the arts of self defence work. You just know how a gun works. Everybody does.

Learn what an art is. Or go. There is nothing in between.

Okay "AN" art is different from art (that you have described as not influencing reality). Which is it? Please stay consistent.

 

[Öwnchef]

Magic is an art. Not science, not Religion. An art.

 

[Centh]

Magic is an art. Not science, not Religion. An art.

AN art, okay. Would you call baking an art? I think baking is both an art and a science.

That's because everything has science involved somewhere, without exceptions. Everything that is real has a science that covers it, or it could have a science that covers it or explains it.

That means premonition would have a science, and manifestation(s) would have a science.

 

[Öwnchef]

And guns have a science. Nobody cares though. Kung Fu is not a rifle. They are no subject in a dojo forum.
There are sceptics forums out there. Use them.