[Opinion] Is creation a trap?

[Firetree]

I don't understand what is meant by creation being a 'trap' . To me , creation is an 'inevitable unfolding ' . . . on all three levels ( macro, human & micro ) .

 

[Sedim Haba]

It sorta

I don't understand what is meant by creation being a 'trap' . To me , creation is an 'inevitable unfolding ' . . . on all three levels ( macro, human & micro ) .

means this world is an illusion or mask, which to a certain extent I do think. But, it's the framework we must operate in, so what does that matter?

 

[Firetree]

I am familiar with the philosophical idea of material creation being 'an illusion' , but to me that does not automatically mean it is a 'trap' .

 

[zyfrtheFirst]

Well if it weren’t for creation, then we wouldn’t even exist to be TRAPPED, so i suppose it is besides the point.
If I create a machine, then the machine does now exist as an ENTITY (as opposed to a series of parts). The parts scattered were not conscious - free from structure, they were in a chaotic ONENESS with their surroundings. Only when ordered, did they become capable of being conscious of themselves.

Now say the machine resents its creation because it’s creator has trapped it at this level, with this form. Is this ethical?
The short answer is we have no choice. The creator was the one that put the parts together in the first place so they don’t even have to hear the question. He was the one that gave you the ability to complain in the first place , so how would you ask that question if he Had not made you that way in the first place?

The question is moot, IMO

 

[Firetree]

Except that ^ involves the whole 'creator thing' ( that might be the trap; assuming a creator ? ) - if it is an 'inevitable unfolding ' , no need for 'a creator' or a 'trap' .

 

[Ohana]

Well if it weren’t for creation, then we wouldn’t even exist to be TRAPPED, so i suppose it is besides the point.
If I create a machine, then the machine does now exist as an ENTITY (as opposed to a series of parts). The parts scattered were not conscious - free from structure, they were in a chaotic ONENESS with their surroundings. Only when ordered, did they become capable of being conscious of themselves.

Now say the machine resents its creation because it’s creator has trapped it at this level, with this form. Is this ethical?
The short answer is we have no choice. The creator was the one that put the parts together in the first place so they don’t even have to hear the question. He was the one that gave you the ability to complain in the first place , so how would you ask that question if he Had not made you that way in the first place?

The question is moot, IMO

I don't know if there is a creator but I want to complain. I want to complain for a very long time. Thats what I want to do personally.

 

[Firetree]

The Lord does have a ' complaints in ' trays .... but its one of those bottomless ones that sit over the waste paper bin .

 

[Sedim Haba]

I thought it was the shredder, meself...

 

[Firetree]

We could start a 'class action ' complaint thread here .

 

[Ohana]

Complaint number one existing complaint number two the story of the flood. Complaint number three every person that is left behind saying they can't be helped.

I don't like that mentality about people. People are complicated and sometimes if someone doesn't have the energy to help someone then fine to cut contact but to say I can't be helped because they couldn't help me.

I don't like that personally. It hurts to hear. And I have a lot of energy and I feel like I can help some people only if they want it though. But I've also been on the opposite end of it where people told me to leave people behind.

I guess I'll just be left behind with them. Thats just my choice. Thats just what I want to do because the minute someone said that I was put into that place so many times before that I might be next. So I just sped it up.

Thats my complaint list. Thank you for reading.

Post automatically merged: Jan 24, 2026

Complaint number one existing complaint number two the story of the flood. Complaint number three every person that is left behind saying they can't be helped.

I don't like that mentality about people. People are complicated and sometimes if someone doesn't have the energy to help someone then fine to cut contact but to say I can't be helped because they couldn't help me.

I don't like that personally. It hurts to hear. And I have a lot of energy and I feel like I can help some people only if they want it though. But I've also been on the opposite end of it where people told me to leave people behind.

I guess I'll just be left behind with them. Thats just my choice. Thats just what I want to do because the minute someone said that I was put into that place so many times before that I might be next. So I just sped it up.

Thats my complaint list. Thank you for reading.

This all therotical though if a creator does exist. I just have bad personal expierences with some things. Pure emotion.

Apologies if this is too off topic. If anyone wants to add let me know and can make another thread

 

[Keldan]

I don’t read those books, so I did some quick research before trying to use Gnostic framework here based on the way I understand. I get why you’d say “creation is a trap” because the material order can function like a veil that keeps the divine spark hidden. That spark is not contained or used to confuse us.

But I don’t agree that creation itself is a trap. Even if you remove Gnosticism entirely, people still become who they become. They still wake up in their own way, they still gain insight, they still mature, and they still reach turning points. Ignorance isn’t unique to the system. Humans can be ignorant with or without any of these frameworks, because ignorance is also just a human condition.

Calling creation a trap makes it sound like the world is the enemy and escape is the only point. I don’t see it that way. I think the real work is recognition, not hatred of creation. Sometimes, the whole “creation is a trap” becomes its own trap because it breeds depression. In Gnostic terms, it’s exactly the states that keep people manageable. So the answer is gnosis.

 

[Firetree]

I too , find the idea , 'black Gnosticism ' (ie, the school of life denial , thinking life and incarnation is 'bad' )

I cant imagine the mind set and outlook one would have if they believed that . Tragic, actually , when the alternative is realized . Life should be or aim to be a joy and celebration lived in wonder .

 

[Frater R.P.G.]

I think the "material world as a prison" idea is a useful metaphour to motivate spiritual ascent, but I generally prefer the more balanced Hermetic view, where the Demiurge is not some evil force or an accident, but rather an intentional part in the process of creation.

 

[Van Horne]

That's a very interesting topic! Lately I got the impression there is a very vivid "neo-gnostic" internet community, who hates life and blames the Demiurge for that. Their proof for this claim: there are bad things happening in this world, so the world is a bad place. Yeah, but what's about the good things in life? And don't tell me there are no good things. Ever had a purring kitten on your lap? That's a great feeling, and if the Demiurge is responsible for that I will include this deity in my daily prayers for life. I'm getting a little cocky here, I know, but some of these "neo-gnostic" mystics should go outside to touch some grass!

Is creation a trap? First thing coming to my mind is the question, what actually is a "trap"? I would define a trap as a device created deliberately to lure in and to capture (or kill) prey. So, I'm here. Was I lured in? Honestly, I don't know. I'm here because my father fornicated my mother and as a result my tiny little self was manifested into flesh, and now I have to deal with it. Do l like it? Sometimes. Do I complain? Sometimes!
I don't really believe in classical rebirth, simply put as "same soul into new body" mechanic. This whole "from brahma to atma and back again"-thingy is a little bit more complicated I guess. Some Gnostic movements believed, sex is a cardinal sin because you help the Demiurge maintaining the trap. Bummer! Can I disproof this claim? No! Can they proof it? No! We will see at the end.

Therefore, each person must work on both their light and their darkness and accept both parts—understanding that both are good and that they are parts of oneself.

I couldn't agree more! There is no light without darkness, no pleasure without pain, you cannot value life without death. There is always a prize to pay. Blaming an evil god for this to me seems childish. The stupid Demiurge made my tummy ache so he can feast on my soul! Ok! Actually, this seems to me like an attempt to give up all responsibility by diminishing the world to an evil plot by an evil mastermind. Blame it on the Demiurge. No wonder there are so many conspiracy guys into that, and oh, no surprise, the Demiurge is actually the Jewish god! Knew it!!!

I keep it with Aleister Crowley. The Divine lives through us and every man and every woman is a star! And with Ronnie James Dio: The lover of life is never a sinner!

 

[ragingmagus]

Its a trap for most, for others it is the liberator

 

[supermagic069]

I think those views are just reflections of the human mind.

 

[Durward]

Argh… a part of my soul is screaming from those words….


It’s both I think.
There’s many things that can cause people to come back. Desire is certainly one of them.
But corrupted myth is another, and is far fouler. Vices are you holding yourself back.
Corrupted myth is others holding you down…

And myth can’t get anymore corrupted than, “you are inherently lost and in need of saving from us.”
Guidance that does not possess, a mirror that holds and does not own. A space to expand and grow… that is what is needed…
That’s fertile soil for the soul.

My two cents anyways.

And likely another, where some of the people here are very obviously tossed down here like a prison because they are plain evil monsters needing punishment. That could be from anywhere in the universe, or other worlds, for all we know. But sometimes we get to recycle them with extreme prejudice in the here and now, and it feels right. Stripped of all powers as well.

I'm still wondering if I recently ran into Dahmer or Gacy, or that perhaps both the evil turds are incarnated into the same person, yuck.

What do Mediums do when someone is already reincarnated? Do they report that accurately or talk to residual akashic awareness? Read the person's mind sitting in front of them? Read grief?

There is so much about this that could be accurate or real, and so much that makes absolutely zero sense in any scenario.

I feel I decided to come back because living incorporeal is pretty dull. You miss the tastes, smells, sex, fighting, and even pain. That isn't existing, it is just boring. You can't even feel the warmth of the sun, or any grass between your toes.

 

[Ohana]

And likely another, where some of the people here are very obviously tossed down here like a prison because they are plain evil monsters needing punishment. That could be from anywhere in the universe, or other worlds, for all we know. But sometimes we get to recycle them with extreme prejudice in the here and now, and it feels right. Stripped of all powers as well.

I'm still wondering if I recently ran into Dahmer or Gacy, or that perhaps both the evil turds are incarnated into the same person, yuck.

What do Mediums do when someone is already reincarnated? Do they report that accurately or talk to residual akashic awareness? Read the person's mind sitting in front of them? Read grief?

There is so much about this that could be accurate or real, and so much that makes absolutely zero sense in any scenario.

I feel I decided to come back because living incorporeal is pretty dull. You miss the tastes, smells, sex, fighting, and even pain. That isn't existing, it is just boring. You can't even feel the warmth of the sun, or any grass between your toes.

So from two of your other posts your saying that people who are here and right now deserve what they have to go through. Then they cannot even complain or healthily express themselves?

That sounds like oppression. Like now because a soul did a bad thing previously that they might not even remember now because their life sucks they can't even complain about it. They can't make music from it. They can't have a healthy outlet of art from it.

What are they supposed to do just be miserable? And keep the misery in forever and throw a pity party? What is this. Say I probably deserve this? Then what do nothing. Help no one. Don't live? Don't sing. Don't express melancholy just be sad and wait for maybe the next life to be better. What if there is no next life? What if reincarnation doesn't exist or whatever cycle that makes this stops? They could have been making a poem, a piece of art for others to enjoy that never gets realized.

Or maybe not just art maybe they could have made scie tific breakthrough that deals with making more sustainable energy. Now will never.

Art comes from people in pain. Singing is way to relieve to oneself. Poetry another way. Art therapy is a thing. People can healthily express there misery without causing further damage to others.

People used to sing when working hard labor to make it easier. And since it was easier more work could be done. Leading to better results for everyone.

If reincarnation is real then I really do not think people can fully remember their other lives. I cannot even remember what I had for lunch the other day.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 4:15 AM

By that logic because Van Gogh had depression he should have just never started painting. No starry night I guess. I like starry night

Langston Hughes I think said he wrote only wrote poems when he was sad. No poetry for Langston Hughes now should just keep it to himself.

No Edgar Allen Poe either. He did not have a good life. So should just do nothing, say nothing and be nothing.

Martin Luther King goes in jail. I guess he deserved it because in a past life he did something randomly wrong. So no speeches from him either. No more dreams. No more I have dreams. That is a foundational speech to history. It is amazing.

 

[Evara]

And likely another, where some of the people here are very obviously tossed down here like a prison because they are plain evil monsters needing punishment. That could be from anywhere in the universe, or other worlds, for all we know. But sometimes we get to recycle them with extreme prejudice in the here and now, and it feels right. Stripped of all powers as well.

I'm still wondering if I recently ran into Dahmer or Gacy, or that perhaps both the evil turds are incarnated into the same person, yuck.

What do Mediums do when someone is already reincarnated? Do they report that accurately or talk to residual akashic awareness? Read the person's mind sitting in front of them? Read grief?

There is so much about this that could be accurate or real, and so much that makes absolutely zero sense in any scenario.

I feel I decided to come back because living incorporeal is pretty dull. You miss the tastes, smells, sex, fighting, and even pain. That isn't existing, it is just boring. You can't even feel the warmth of the sun, or any grass between your toes.

Some are here as punishment but be careful… that’s not a universal and when it gets universalized the structure turns toxic and rotten…
This is a realm of chaos… which also makes it a realm of emergence.

As far as mediums are concerned…
They’re pulling on soul echoes in the veil…
So yes, Akashic residue if you will.
And the more times a soul incarnates… the greater the residue.

Also… there’s sex in the veil… like lots of sex.
And there’s a lot of fighting too.
Really no food, drink and those sorts of things. Those sorts of things are mostly absent outside of symbolic ritual.