[Opinion] Is creation a trap?

[Firetree]

I don't understand what is meant by creation being a 'trap' . To me , creation is an 'inevitable unfolding ' . . . on all three levels ( macro, human & micro ) .

 

[Sedim Haba]

It sorta

I don't understand what is meant by creation being a 'trap' . To me , creation is an 'inevitable unfolding ' . . . on all three levels ( macro, human & micro ) .

means this world is an illusion or mask, which to a certain extent I do think. But, it's the framework we must operate in, so what does that matter?

 

[Firetree]

I am familiar with the philosophical idea of material creation being 'an illusion' , but to me that does not automatically mean it is a 'trap' .

 

[zyfrtheFirst]

Well if it weren’t for creation, then we wouldn’t even exist to be TRAPPED, so i suppose it is besides the point.
If I create a machine, then the machine does now exist as an ENTITY (as opposed to a series of parts). The parts scattered were not conscious - free from structure, they were in a chaotic ONENESS with their surroundings. Only when ordered, did they become capable of being conscious of themselves.

Now say the machine resents its creation because it’s creator has trapped it at this level, with this form. Is this ethical?
The short answer is we have no choice. The creator was the one that put the parts together in the first place so they don’t even have to hear the question. He was the one that gave you the ability to complain in the first place , so how would you ask that question if he Had not made you that way in the first place?

The question is moot, IMO

 

[Firetree]

Except that ^ involves the whole 'creator thing' ( that might be the trap; assuming a creator ? ) - if it is an 'inevitable unfolding ' , no need for 'a creator' or a 'trap' .

 

[Ohana]

Well if it weren’t for creation, then we wouldn’t even exist to be TRAPPED, so i suppose it is besides the point.
If I create a machine, then the machine does now exist as an ENTITY (as opposed to a series of parts). The parts scattered were not conscious - free from structure, they were in a chaotic ONENESS with their surroundings. Only when ordered, did they become capable of being conscious of themselves.

Now say the machine resents its creation because it’s creator has trapped it at this level, with this form. Is this ethical?
The short answer is we have no choice. The creator was the one that put the parts together in the first place so they don’t even have to hear the question. He was the one that gave you the ability to complain in the first place , so how would you ask that question if he Had not made you that way in the first place?

The question is moot, IMO

I don't know if there is a creator but I want to complain. I want to complain for a very long time. Thats what I want to do personally.

 

[Firetree]

The Lord does have a ' complaints in ' trays .... but its one of those bottomless ones that sit over the waste paper bin .

 

[Sedim Haba]

I thought it was the shredder, meself...

 

[Firetree]

We could start a 'class action ' complaint thread here .

 

[Ohana]

Complaint number one existing complaint number two the story of the flood. Complaint number three every person that is left behind saying they can't be helped.

I don't like that mentality about people. People are complicated and sometimes if someone doesn't have the energy to help someone then fine to cut contact but to say I can't be helped because they couldn't help me.

I don't like that personally. It hurts to hear. And I have a lot of energy and I feel like I can help some people only if they want it though. But I've also been on the opposite end of it where people told me to leave people behind.

I guess I'll just be left behind with them. Thats just my choice. Thats just what I want to do because the minute someone said that I was put into that place so many times before that I might be next. So I just sped it up.

Thats my complaint list. Thank you for reading.

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 7:15 AM

Complaint number one existing complaint number two the story of the flood. Complaint number three every person that is left behind saying they can't be helped.

I don't like that mentality about people. People are complicated and sometimes if someone doesn't have the energy to help someone then fine to cut contact but to say I can't be helped because they couldn't help me.

I don't like that personally. It hurts to hear. And I have a lot of energy and I feel like I can help some people only if they want it though. But I've also been on the opposite end of it where people told me to leave people behind.

I guess I'll just be left behind with them. Thats just my choice. Thats just what I want to do because the minute someone said that I was put into that place so many times before that I might be next. So I just sped it up.

Thats my complaint list. Thank you for reading.

This all therotical though if a creator does exist. I just have bad personal expierences with some things. Pure emotion.

Apologies if this is too off topic. If anyone wants to add let me know and can make another thread

 

[Keldan]

I don’t read those books, so I did some quick research before trying to use Gnostic framework here based on the way I understand. I get why you’d say “creation is a trap” because the material order can function like a veil that keeps the divine spark hidden. That spark is not contained or used to confuse us.

But I don’t agree that creation itself is a trap. Even if you remove Gnosticism entirely, people still become who they become. They still wake up in their own way, they still gain insight, they still mature, and they still reach turning points. Ignorance isn’t unique to the system. Humans can be ignorant with or without any of these frameworks, because ignorance is also just a human condition.

Calling creation a trap makes it sound like the world is the enemy and escape is the only point. I don’t see it that way. I think the real work is recognition, not hatred of creation. Sometimes, the whole “creation is a trap” becomes its own trap because it breeds depression. In Gnostic terms, it’s exactly the states that keep people manageable. So the answer is gnosis.

 

[Firetree]

I too , find the idea , 'black Gnosticism ' (ie, the school of life denial , thinking life and incarnation is 'bad' )

I cant imagine the mind set and outlook one would have if they believed that . Tragic, actually , when the alternative is realized . Life should be or aim to be a joy and celebration lived in wonder .

 

[Frater R.P.G.]

I think the "material world as a prison" idea is a useful metaphour to motivate spiritual ascent, but I generally prefer the more balanced Hermetic view, where the Demiurge is not some evil force or an accident, but rather an intentional part in the process of creation.

 

[Van Horne]

That's a very interesting topic! Lately I got the impression there is a very vivid "neo-gnostic" internet community, who hates life and blames the Demiurge for that. Their proof for this claim: there are bad things happening in this world, so the world is a bad place. Yeah, but what's about the good things in life? And don't tell me there are no good things. Ever had a purring kitten on your lap? That's a great feeling, and if the Demiurge is responsible for that I will include this deity in my daily prayers for life. I'm getting a little cocky here, I know, but some of these "neo-gnostic" mystics should go outside to touch some grass!

Is creation a trap? First thing coming to my mind is the question, what actually is a "trap"? I would define a trap as a device created deliberately to lure in and to capture (or kill) prey. So, I'm here. Was I lured in? Honestly, I don't know. I'm here because my father fornicated my mother and as a result my tiny little self was manifested into flesh, and now I have to deal with it. Do l like it? Sometimes. Do I complain? Sometimes!
I don't really believe in classical rebirth, simply put as "same soul into new body" mechanic. This whole "from brahma to atma and back again"-thingy is a little bit more complicated I guess. Some Gnostic movements believed, sex is a cardinal sin because you help the Demiurge maintaining the trap. Bummer! Can I disproof this claim? No! Can they proof it? No! We will see at the end.

Therefore, each person must work on both their light and their darkness and accept both parts—understanding that both are good and that they are parts of oneself.

I couldn't agree more! There is no light without darkness, no pleasure without pain, you cannot value life without death. There is always a prize to pay. Blaming an evil god for this to me seems childish. The stupid Demiurge made my tummy ache so he can feast on my soul! Ok! Actually, this seems to me like an attempt to give up all responsibility by diminishing the world to an evil plot by an evil mastermind. Blame it on the Demiurge. No wonder there are so many conspiracy guys into that, and oh, no surprise, the Demiurge is actually the Jewish god! Knew it!!!

I keep it with Aleister Crowley. The Divine lives through us and every man and every woman is a star! And with Ronnie James Dio: The lover of life is never a sinner!