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Self initiation into freemasonsry

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Diluculo_DelFuego

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Is this possible, to initiate into the spiritual side of freemasonry?
Using Manly Halls Secret Wisdom of All Ages, and published rituals, would 8t he possible? Up to the highest rite?
 

Calvin_MQ

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It is possible to self-initiate into the spiritual side of Freemasonry!

But there's a catch...

You have to be a Freemason first in order to do so!

What I mean is: one of the big things about Freemasonry is about Brotherly Love (the other two being "Relief" and "Truth"), so if you try to become a Freemason whilst missing out on the Brotherhood that comes from being part of a lodge, you're kind of missing the point.

That being said, when you actually get into Freemasonry, you will find that the vast majority isn't actually either spiritual or esoteric, unless you happen to join a lodge which was specifically set-up to be so, such as a Memphis Misraim lodge, or one which follows the teachings of W L Wilmshurst or C W Leadbeater.

Hence, in order to be both a Freemason and into the spiritual side of the Craft, you will of necessity have to take on a lot of personal responsibility to do so, treading a lonely path unless you happen to make contact with like-minded Brethren. For example, there is a lot of inner-work to be done like meditation, self-study, etc. However saying that, the good news is that spiritually minded Brethren are out there: for instance you could try googling the Dormer masonic study circle.

Fraternal best wishes,

Alex Sumner
That why I was considering going in a memphis misraim lodge but I feel like the scottish rite has so much potential and I like both symbolism at least from the few things ive seen. Im under the impression that memphis misraim is more theurgic oriented. However I feel like your Godfather could push you in a direction that doesnt really suit you, the person that proposed to be my godfather is clearly not interested into the spiritual side of freemasonryy but more about the fraternal side of it, im kind of worried he doesnt really see my intention in this .
 

Alex_S

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That why I was considering going in a memphis misraim lodge but I feel like the scottish rite has so much potential and I like both symbolism at least from the few things ive seen. Im under the impression that memphis misraim is more theurgic oriented. However I feel like your Godfather could push you in a direction that doesnt really suit you, the person that proposed to be my godfather is clearly not interested into the spiritual side of freemasonryy but more about the fraternal side of it, im kind of worried he doesnt really see my intention in this .
The first thirty three degrees of Memphis Misraim pretty much are the thirty three degrees of the Scottish Rite.

However there is another reason to chose carefully: if you join a Memphis Misraim lodge, you will not be able to join regular freemasonry, as the Scottish Rite believes that MM encroaches on its exclusive privileges, and hence outlaws it. A lot of MM masons whom I know consider this no great loss... you take your chances ;)
 

Calvin_MQ

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The first thirty three degrees of Memphis Misraim pretty much are the thirty three degrees of the Scottish Rite.

However there is another reason to chose carefully: if you join a Memphis Misraim lodge, you will not be able to join regular freemasonry, as the Scottish Rite believes that MM encroaches on its exclusive privileges, and hence outlaws it. A lot of MM masons whom I know consider this no great loss... you take your chances ;)
Arf it’s hard to choose when you are not fully aware of what get down…

so can you do the opposite? Start in scottish rite then go to MM? Does it happen? I know it s possible to visit as my soon to be Godfather sais he use to visit MM lodge but he cant with the incense lol

my Godfather is already directing me to the scottish rite bc MM is not really popular in Switzerland so the lodges are often put to sleep for lack of membership.

also someone told me that it’s after the first 3 degrees that you start to deal with esoteric stuff I mean spiritual side of stuff is it true? The person who told me this is into princehall masonry so I dont know, I think they practice the york rite im not sure.
 

Roma

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More important is to find a lodge that does real work. So park outside nearby lodges at meeting times and observe the brethren as they enter. What qualities do you detect?

The cosmic tide is going out on a wide range of ritual/spiritual/religious groups and their memberships are shrinking rapidly. Groups suited for the new cycle are not easy to find
 

Calvin_MQ

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More important is to find a lodge that does real work. So park outside nearby lodges at meeting times and observe the brethren as they enter. What qualities do you detect?

The cosmic tide is going out on a wide range of ritual/spiritual/religious groups and their memberships are shrinking rapidly. Groups suited for the new cycle are not easy to find
I think that’s really something you find alone, Im not sure everybody is looking for the spiritual side of it anymore, however I feel that even if someone is interested by the spiritual side of it, doesnt means he or she going to use it for good…
 

Alex_S

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Arf it’s hard to choose when you are not fully aware of what get down…

so can you do the opposite? Start in scottish rite then go to MM? Does it happen? I know it s possible to visit as my soon to be Godfather sais he use to visit MM lodge but he cant with the incense lol

my Godfather is already directing me to the scottish rite bc MM is not really popular in Switzerland so the lodges are often put to sleep for lack of membership.
Hmm I've heard of MM sovereign sanctuaries accepting scottish rite degrees as equivalent to those in Memphis Misraim, not sure if it's normal practice or not.
also someone told me that it’s after the first 3 degrees that you start to deal with esoteric stuff I mean spiritual side of stuff is it true? The person who told me this is into princehall masonry so I dont know, I think they practice the york rite im not sure.
No, there is tons of esoteric / spiritual stuff in the first three degrees themselves, it's just that many Craft masons don't know that it's there. Try looking up an author like W L Wilmshurst, you might see what I mean.
 

Calvin_MQ

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Hmm I've heard of MM sovereign sanctuaries accepting scottish rite degrees as equivalent to those in Memphis Misraim, not sure if it's normal practice or not.

No, there is tons of esoteric / spiritual stuff in the first three degrees themselves, it's just that many Craft masons don't know that it's there. Try looking up an author like W L Wilmshurst, you might see what I mean.
I bet there is, a lot of haitian mason use the first degree passwords etc in their magic
 

Roma

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The key is geometrically aligning the Light attracted from On High or the East with suitable candidates.

It is at least a decade since I have seen such a conjunction. For the rest, the rituals are play acting.

The flows of Light at the ritual opening used to be frequent in the 1980s. Not any more!
 

Calvin_MQ

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The key is geometrically aligning the Light attracted from On High or the East with suitable candidates.

It is at least a decade since I have seen such a conjunction. For the rest, the rituals are play acting.

The flows of Light at the ritual opening used to be frequent in the 1980s. Not any more!
Im not sure that the direction I want to dig… if you start from the fact that most of the characters that inspired the freemasonry myths like Hiram or Osiris in the egyptian inspired myth are allegory to explain some force of the universe or aspect of God. Once freemasonry integrated them in their myths you should dig in this direction. That just my opinion from an outsider, divine stuff cant be explained by rational thinking, that why people use myth, because it talk directly to the part of yourself that it directly linked to the spiritual world, and that your imagination. Henry Corbin talk about this. The imaginal world.
 

Roma

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myths like Hiram or Osiris in the egyptian inspired myth are allegory
That is a comforting belief.

divine stuff cant be explained by rational thinking
Explaining (away) is a favorite human occupation. Still, Reality must have some structure, and the spiritual scientist experiments to understand the structure and to take a proper (clean) role in the Cosmos

English-speaking Freemasony is a poor residue of ancient teaching structures.

The ancient mysteries were very serious and testing candidates often resulted in death.

I found an example the other day: a site where the female candidates were expected to absorb light from the Pleiades. At one stage they were immersed in a particular creek while the initiates observed the absorption and stamped in a rhythm appearing in one of the higher Masonic degrees

The candidates were fully immersed until they absorbed enough.

There were two lines of graves further down the slope - for those that drowned before they absorbed enough light
 
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That why I was considering going in a memphis misraim lodge but I feel like the scottish rite has so much potential and I like both symbolism at least from the few things ive seen. Im under the impression that memphis misraim is more theurgic oriented. However I feel like your Godfather could push you in a direction that doesnt really suit you, the person that proposed to be my godfather is clearly not interested into the spiritual side of freemasonryy but more about the fraternal side of it, im kind of worried he doesnt really see my intention in this .
The Scottish rite is steeped in magic and mysticism. I highly recommend it. Read Albert Pikes book too "morals and dogma"
 

Calvin_MQ

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That is a comforting belief.


Explaining (away) is a favorite human occupation. Still, Reality must have some structure, and the spiritual scientist experiments to understand the structure and to take a proper (clean) role in the Cosmos

English-speaking Freemasony is a poor residue of ancient teaching structures.

The ancient mysteries were very serious and testing candidates often resulted in death.

I found an example the other day: a site where the female candidates were expected to absorb light from the Pleiades. At one stage they were immersed in a particular creek while the initiates observed the absorption and stamped in a rhythm appearing in one of the higher Masonic degrees

The candidates were fully immersed until they absorbed enough.

There were two lines of graves further down the slope - for those that drowned before they absorbed enough light
I dont know why you want to make everything about astrology and the stars while that might be one of the lowest manifestation. A lot of mystic were trying to raise above the influence of planet and stars and you are trying to be influenced by it? That doesnt make any sense.
tell me that you didnt grasp the meaning behind the myth but dont tell me there is no hidden meaning behind it.

i dont think ancient mystic were taking everything litteraly that doesnt make any sense at all.
 

Roma

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why you want to make everything about astrology and the stars
If you accept the concept of the Earth being alive - an Earth Mother or Gaia - then other planets ought to be alive also, and if the planets of a solar system are alive, presumably the solar system is alive.

The intelligence that uses a solar system as its body of manifestation is often referred to as a Solar Logos.

In that context a human is a tiny cell in a great entity.

The cell in the end of one of your fingers has minute intelligence, and has extremely limited ability to understand the functioning or intent of the human within which it is embedded.

As above so below. As below so above.

A lot of mystic were trying to raise above the influence of planet
The initiate has learned to manage the internal effects/tides of the planets and moons, but is still subject to the tides of the constellations.


tell me that you didnt grasp the meaning behind the myth but dont tell me there is no hidden meaning
Heru (Horus) is the same as Hiram - hence we are never told the father of Hiram

And Lazarus is the same as Asar - both raised by a/the son of god
 
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I dont know why you want to make everything about astrology and the stars while that might be one of the lowest manifestation. A lot of mystic were trying to raise above the influence of planet and stars and you are trying to be influenced by it? That doesnt make any sense.
tell me that you didnt grasp the meaning behind the myth but dont tell me there is no hidden meaning behind it.

i dont think ancient mystic were taking everything litteraly that doesnt make any sense at all.
I agree with you and frankly too frequently here on WF I see that Roma is infatuated with his own opinion, and in my view he's seldom got a good grasp of what he's talking about.
 

Calvin_MQ

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I think Al Ghazali said something like, there is people that worship the planets and the stars, some worship the one that put the spheres in movement, other worship the one that give order to the mover of the spheres and last you have those that worship the one that created everything, the source itself above all of them.
 
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How would we test that?
Look bro, you're an armchair RHP pussy at best at worst you're a well read charlatan. Remember when you said you weren't trying to be rude? You use statements like that to clothe your disrespect for other people on different paths than you, the worst part is in your mind you're never wrong.
 

Diluculo_DelFuego

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There is something to be said regarding stars and such. Read the book of Job out of the Bible, plenty of star references.
The demons are constellations/nebulas etc.
Read Revelation of St John for example.

Past this I've no more to say except any of us can be wrong, just look past your pride to see it.
 
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