There is no One World Order

[IllusiveOwl]

It's just important to realise that you are in charge of the Robot, and not the other way around.

This sounds solid and grounded, but that's because it isn't uprooting the whole problem of being asleep, in fact someone deep in an elaborate dream can hold concepts this simple and still remain far from truly conscious.

It is a given that we are physically and scientifically meat-machines, that the majority of our actions, choices, and dialogue is procedurally generated and follow scripts written to cope with the environment, but just gaining awareness of this robotic mind & body isn't enough, it doesn't even touch the problem of what this "you" is.

This problem is monumental and the introspection required to grasp this mysterious center is as advanced as breaking a cinderblock
with your head.

This is very obviously required to become a fully realized "human being" but nowhere outside of some temples is this fundamental problem addressed, and that feels purposeful. This problem is so unaddressed that to even think of it as a problem in the first place rings as "mental illness".

Comparatively, someone who has full conscious awareness would have no trouble anticipating the tiny natures of average asleep folk and spin a web so elaborate it could encompass the globe. The political systems of all countries have a leader, it wouldn't be difficult to imagine all leaders fearfully and secretly obeying the vauge commands of a kingpin. Hell, the world leaders already meet at the UN, maybe there's a basement where spooky shit happens.

I'm not saying I have proof of shit, I'm just pointing out the obvious and wouldn't suggest anyone have faith in man's small nature. A world full of apes could be corraled like sheep under a half-cunning band of Shepards.

Post automatically merged: Sep 13, 2024

No-one goes through their whole life "asleep"

I also have to powerfully disagree with this. I have met countless elderly people who haven't changed or grown since their 20's, not to mention people locked into a loop that they have been repeating for decades without any real consciousness outside of passively watching while pre-scripted sayings, opinions, and biases do their thing.

There is a chance that perhaps your version of "awake" is just another more elaborate form of sleep

 

[Robert Ramsay]

This sounds solid and grounded, but that's because it isn't uprooting the whole problem of being asleep, in fact someone deep in an elaborate dream can hold concepts this simple and still remain far from truly conscious.

It is a given that we are physically and scientifically meat-machines, that the majority of our actions, choices, and dialogue is procedurally generated and follow scripts written to cope with the environment, but just gaining awareness of this robotic mind & body isn't enough, it doesn't even touch the problem of what this "you" is.

This problem is monumental and the introspection required to grasp this mysterious center is as advanced as breaking a cinderblock
with your head.

This is very obviously required to become a fully realized "human being" but nowhere outside of some temples is this fundamental problem addressed, and that feels purposeful. This problem is so unaddressed that to even think of it as a problem in the first place rings as "mental illness".

Comparatively, someone who has full conscious awareness would have no trouble anticipating the tiny natures of average asleep folk and spin a web so elaborate it could encompass the globe. The political systems of all countries have a leader, it wouldn't be difficult to imagine all leaders fearfully and secretly obeying the vauge commands of a kingpin. Hell, the world leaders already meet at the UN, maybe there's a basement where spooky shit happens.

I'm not saying I have proof of shit, I'm just pointing out the obvious and wouldn't suggest anyone have faith in man's small nature. A world full of apes could be corraled like sheep under a half-cunning band of Shepards.

Post automatically merged: Sep 13, 2024

I also have to powerfully disagree with this. I have met countless elderly people who haven't changed or grown since their 20's, not to mention people locked into a loop that they have been repeating for decades without any real consciousness outside of passively watching while pre-scripted sayings, opinions, and biases do their thing.

There is a chance that perhaps your version of "awake" is just another more elaborate form of sleep

The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

Also, I'm afraid I can't go with the idea that a 'fully awake' person (whatever that might look like) would suddenly be like the Kingpin or whatever. That sounds very much like an A.E. van Vogt novel.

The reason we have horrible people in charge is because we let them, not because they have fantastic super brain powers. There's a lampost in Italy and a bunker in Germany that demonstrates what happens when we no longer let them.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

I can't go with the idea that a 'fully awake' person (whatever that might look like) would suddenly be like the Kingpin or whatever. That sounds very much like an A.E. van Vogt novel.

For a practitioner in magic, this is a very limiting viewpoint of what we luminous beings are capable of. People are easy to coerce, manipulate, scare, and control. Given human beings penchant for greed & conquest, I would find it unlikely that people with awakened consciousness wouldn't give a go at world domination. One just has to look at the expanding maps of Assyria, the Roman Empire, and the warfront of Nazi Germany to see our primal desire to conquer the world.

It's reasonable to see some chap realizing that to conquer the world it has to be a covert kinda thing.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

So which would be conquerer from the past do you reckon was fully illuminated in this way?

 

[IllusiveOwl]

conquerer

Maybe Alexander the Great, Atilla the Hun... perhaps Napoleon, it's hard to get clear ideas of people centuries old cause of bias/mistranslation. it's also difficult because any merlin with a brain would operate behind an Arthur.

Many great and fallen empires of the past look like snowball effects in large sum. Sadly sans the occasional Marcus A many tyrants were small, petty brutish little pigs

Jung said in his book, The Undiscovered Self, that every man is capable - at least- of all the things done by man in the past, we all have the potential to be Gandhi or Hitler minimum. Potential is genuinely limitless.

 

[Robert Ramsay]

We have one example of an Enlightened One - Buddha himself, and he looked beyond conquest. I believe if someone were truly as illuminated as you are talking about, they wouldn't need to conquer. Only grubby normal people think that conquest is the pinnacle of schievement.

 

[IllusiveOwl]

if someone were truly as illuminated as you are talking about, they wouldn't need to conquer

I think that is a bit of a simplification. Humans are flawed and prone to disaster, even the best of us. There are many stories in Buddhism of enlightened beings who've fallen, Satan classically is an enlightened being who's gone down the road of conquest, metaphorically it says that this is something anyone can fall prey to. The enlightened being walks a razor's edge and if they fall the consequences could effect us all.

I would like to mention that another enlightened being, like Jesus, was offered global conquest at the mountain, but turned it down too. Still, even Jesus had a change of heart for a moment there on the cross. Illuminated beings see things clearly, but even Olympic runners slip & fall.

 

[Xenophon]

Of course, being "above" conquest, wealth, etc. is also the favorite refuge for the hopelessly inept too. "See, there my son! The perfectly enlightened fox has transcended all desire for grapes. A living Buddha indeed!"

 

[IllusiveOwl]

The perfectly enlightened fox

Though the world is unfortunately machiavellian and those with the most power play by his book, the fox among wolves and wolf among foxes

I still stand firm that, knowing our breed, some likely rose above the rest and created this Simulacra & Simulation-esque unreality that comprises our lives.

 

[DarkHermit]

I'm giving it a try at being controversial with this, let's see what I "can cook".

People like to think that there is a super secret group hidden somewhere(or maybe amongst the world's governments) that are the ones "pulling the strings" of everything that happens in history and everything that has happened so far.That his group of powerful and unseen beings have such a reach that they are basically playing The Sims with us, poor humans that know nothing and are ignorant of "what really is happening".

I may not be outside the Matrix, nor have been visited by aliens, but I do believe that there is no such thing as a group made of several individuals that can have so much control over what happens on Earth and can dictate what happens in every country and in humanity's life in general.

Everything are just smoke and mirrors, these "lords of the world" were made up so people would think that there is indeed a hidden danger aside their mundane ones of corrupt politicians and power-hungry individuals that have no issue with throwing the world into chaos in order to satiate their own desire for violence, death and power.

We can be a race full of perversions so it shouldn't be a surprise that humans can be worse than we can imagine.But to go so far to imagine even beings outside of Earth as being the ones manipulating the strings in order to...what?Guide us towards what purpose or end?For what reason?Do people really think that other races wouldn't have anything better to do than to interfere in the development of another race?And if the rulers of the world are human, how did they get there when we are such a big race so widespread?Even managing an empire was too hard of a work for emperors, imagine managing this shadow network that apparently "has power over ever sector and can manipulate it at will".How to avoid "rogue agents"?Are the ones in power the same people, seemingly immortal, or are they made up of lineages that somehow got together and decided that they would equally control the world?

But then again, humans can be very greedy and selfish, how would something so great in scope endure so long when you can never know how the individuals behind it will react?

In the wise words of a fictional character:
"Humans just lead short, boring, insignificant lives, so they make up stories to feel like they're a part of something bigger. They want to blame all the world's problems on some single enemy they can fight, instead of a complex network of interrelated forces beyond anyone's control."

I agree with you I think it is all bullshit too