[Opinion] Another take on the world

[Jk666]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but to you need evil to have good.

In order to know god there must be a devil.

I’m gonna be brief you need to go down 1st before you soar.

There're those who make the rules the judges if you will that are neither good nor bad but just are = the pwrs that be:
To me they appear as dark reptilian eyes.

what do you say?

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

I don’t understand what you’re sayin,

im Not saying you should be a bad person
i just said in our world there’s no good without evil up without down kindness without cruelty: when yu give alms to 1 guy u deny it from another.

What Im saying is what values do you really, beside all occult hearsay, actually feel to be right without a doubt for you?

Then ... hopefully they are "good" values. Because the next step would be to live those values.

Who occurs in the aftermath is inconsequential, since you lived your values on earth to the best of your ability and resources. The setup was not your concern, just how you lived that matters in the end.

 

[hungry_ghost]

So? They also could have just not eaten the fruit Completely unnecessary problems caused by self destructive behavior. That's what's wrong with people, evil isn't necessary. It's self inflicted.

No. They were ignorant before they ate the fruit. So they didn't understand what good was either.

Evil isn't self-inflicted. It's subjective.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Before the Messiah arrived, how did the dead warriors and priests fare? They lived their duty and purpose as their lives, with all associated values, then entered death boldly to say "Whatever, I did my best with who I was, what my values were, and how I lived my life and death."

 

[OrdinaryTourist]

No. They were ignorant before they ate the fruit. So they didn't understand what good was either.

Evil isn't self-inflicted. It's subjective.

They were explicitly told specifically not to eat the fruit. Eating the fruit was objectively bad, it ruined their existence in paradise. It was completely self inflicted. They didn't give God the same trust he had given them. They broke a vow for the short term pleasure of the taste of the apple only to suffer the long term consequences. That is evil typified. Again, completely unnecessary and entirely self inflicted.

 

[Jk666]

. Eating the fruit was objectively bad, it ruined their existence in paradise. It was completely self inflicted. That is evil typified. Again, completely unnecessary and entirely self inflicted.

are u sayin ppl don’t do evil to each other?
dont rob kill gossip? But they do…

what @hungry_ghost is saying is that evil is internal to most ppl and therefore subjective

in Judaism it’s called the evi inclinaction.

 

[hungry_ghost]

Eating the fruit was objectively bad,

It can be understood as objectively bad because you're not living in ignorance like they were at the time.

It was completely self inflicted.

In their case I never said it wasn't. I'm saying evil is subjective. Some people are masochists so saying evil is self inflicted is incorrect.

They didn't give God the same trust he had given them.

They didn't understand what consequences were.

They broke a vow for the short term pleasure of the taste

What is a broken vow? What's a broken promise? Those are things that can be interpreted as bad or evil. They didn't understand what breaking a vow was until after they ate the fruit. Again, they were ignorant.

 

[Diluculo_DelFuego]

Let's turn to the page of the Golden Calf. Here t he Israelites are, escaped from Egypt, led bravely by Moses and Aaron, the two representatives of the two classes of priests/rabbis that would follow over time.
Moses goes up to chat with God. Meanwhile, Aaron and the Israelites build an altar ... okay, not commanded by God .. but .. what? You melted all your gold and built an idol? Youre worshipping the Idol?

So yes, you can bet free from ignorance even if you're innocent or not, but you know your past, you know where you come from, you know what it was like to love and be loved, and then, you build an idol.

 

[hungry_ghost]

So yes, you can bet free from ignorance even if you're innocent or not, but you know your past, you know where you come from, you know what it was like to love and be loved, and then, you build an idol.

Doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result each time is the definition for insanity. There's a difference between insanity and ignorance.

 

[OrdinaryTourist]

It can be understood as objectively bad because you're not living in ignorance like they were at the time.

In their case I never said it wasn't. I'm saying evil is subjective. Some people are masochists so saying evil is self inflicted is incorrect.

They didn't understand what consequences were.

What is a broken vow? What's a broken promise? Those are things that can be interpreted as bad or evil. They didn't understand what breaking a vow was until after they ate the fruit. Again, they were ignorant.

Yeah this all hinges on the assumption that they were ignorant, which they weren't. Once again, they were explicitly told not to do it. If they'd not been instructed not to do so, I would agree with you. Unfortunately, they were.

 

[OrdinaryTourist]

Doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result each time is the definition for insanity. There's a difference between insanity and ignorance.

What you're describing is stupidity, not insanity. More self sabotaging than crazy.

 

[hungry_ghost]

Yeah this all hinges on the assumption that they were ignorant, which they weren't. Once again, they were explicitly told not to do it. If they'd not been instructed not to do so, I would agree with you. Unfortunately, they were.

It's not an assumption because they were ignorant. Once again, they couldn't know consequences were bad if they didn't know what bad was.

What you're describing is stupidity, not insanity. More self sabotaging than crazy.

Tons of people define what I said as insanity. A lot of mentally ill people self sabotage like that. I think insanity is a more suitable word than stupidity.

 

[OrdinaryTourist]

It's not an assumption because they were ignorant. Once again, they couldn't know consequences were bad if they didn't know what bad was.

I don't think you need to know the consequences. The fact that the command came from a benevolent authority figure that had instilled his trust in them should have been reason enough. If your father had told you not to stick your hand in a burning fire pit, and then you did it anyway, would you be thankful for the lesson you'd learned the hard way or would you regret not listening to your father? They failed the test of faith, this is why they were punished. They were then burdened with the knowledge of those consequences. They always had the option to say no.

Tons of people define what I said as insanity. A lot of mentally ill people self sabotage like that. I think insanity is a more suitable word than stupidity.

No I've heard the quote before I just don't think it's accurate. I don't really care that tons of people heard a weird statement one time that they thought was catchy and collectively decided it was worthy of repeating ad nauseam. It's just not true. It's also just literally not the definition of insanity. You don't have to be insane to do stupid shit, hell you don't even have to be stupid to do stupid shit.

 

[hungry_ghost]

I don't think you need to know the consequences. The fact that the command came from a benevolent authority figure that had instilled his trust in them should have been reason enough. If your father had told you not to stick your hand in a burning fire pit, and then you did it anyway, would you be thankful for the lesson you'd learned the hard way or would you regret not listening to your father? They failed the test of faith, this is why they were punished. They were then burdened with the knowledge of those consequences. They always had the option to say no.

No I've heard the quote before I just don't think it's accurate. I don't really care that tons of people heard a weird statement one time that they thought was catchy and collectively decided it was worthy of repeating ad nauseam. It's just not true. It's also just literally not the definition of insanity. You don't have to be insane to do stupid shit, hell you don't even have to be stupid to do stupid shit.

Whatever dude. I'm done wasting my breath.

 

[OrdinaryTourist]

Whatever dude. I'm done wasting my breath.

Wasting your breath? I thought what you had to say was interesting. I just disagreed.

 

[hungry_ghost]

Wasting your breath? I thought what you had to say was interesting. I just disagreed.

It gets to a point where people begin repeating themselves. I see it all the time on Reddit and other social media platforms. It's exhausting and it derails the thread.

I do appreciate you for sticking to your points. Normally at this point people are leaning heavily into whataboutism and strawmans or theyre sticking to some off the wall appeal to authority argument.

 

[OrdinaryTourist]

It gets to a point where people begin repeating themselves. I see it all the time on Reddit and other social media platforms. It's exhausting and it derails the thread.

I do appreciate you for sticking to your points. Normally at this point people are leaning heavily into whataboutism and strawmans or theyre sticking to some off the wall appeal to authority argument.

I try to stay as far away from reddit as I possibly can. It's a good place to lose your individuality. Total echo chamber, especially with the important issues. It's way too easy to get banned over a minor disagreement. But I digress.

 

[Roma]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but to you need evil to have good.

In my view evil and good are not particularly useful constructs - as the terms are used from the perspective of the viewer. Does the human make judgements/assessments in the galactic context?

It is perhaps more useful consider whether the light-dark balance is proper for the situation

 

[Jk666]

So good is balance & bad is lack of balance according to some.

all knowledge experience the universe is subjective cuz it comes from A value judgement of the situation by an observer.

an analogy would be shining a flashlight in darkness: what it hits exists & what it doesn’t doesnt

that’s why you need the watchers: angels who observe & record their observations to make sure the universe doesn’t break: goes into negative/non existence

 

[Roma]

all knowledge experience the universe is subjective cuz it comes from A value judgement of the situation by an observer

My own experience of the word "all" is that it is too broad. Better to say that for most intelligences, their perception is incomplete.

Even angels (literally: messengers) see from the perspective of their own individual function

Non existence is not negative. Beingness is the means by which Existence periodically occurs. See for yourself

 

[Jk666]

It gets to a point where people begin repeating themselves. I see it all the time on Reddit and other social media platforms. It's exhausting and it derails the thread.

I agree with this assessment: I don’t wanna step on anyones toes but that’s the problem with organised big religion: it’s self contradictory: god is good the devil is bad the sex drive is bad women r bad cuz pious men chase after them. Money is bad: you cannot serve god & serve mammon at the same time.

you need money/women/sex drive/the devil.
why is many normal things like sex/material success/science Demonised?

The scientific method is based on heresy & lack of absolute truths: a theory is only valid until disproven.