Author What are your opinions on Jason's Miller occult material?

[Fausto]

What a comforting, thanks, dude.

 

[OberonFromTheHills]

I 'am surprisingly about 250 lessons into, "Strategic Sorcery" and surprisingly it's been quite a refreshing course. I can honestly say I've strengthened my foundation, getting a new outlook on the basics of Sorcery.
I'd defiantly recommend Strategic Sorcery, and Protection and Reversal Magick for any up and coming Witch, Worlock, or Wizard.

I totally agree. This programm is insane. It must be the only material you need to build your own practice.

I also loved how he refreshed Franz Bardon's energy work and give it a new twist for contemporary practicionners.

Jason Miller is by far my favorite author when it comes to magick. He teaches you how to be a magus, not a superstitious tiktok witch.

 

[aleister dee]

Is there anyone who done sorcery of hekate 1 course taken from this forum (i mean without QnA) if yes then what were your experience?

 

[aphratt0s]

Is there anyone who done sorcery of hekate 1 course taken from this forum (i mean without QnA) if yes then what were your experience?

I’ve taken SOH 1, 2 and 3, and years later it is still the foundation of my practice (alongside meditation and some Helios-centric planetary work). I’ve had success way beyond my expectations with it, both in terms of spiritual experiences and measurable physical-world results. I’ve made my way into a great career, financial success, many positive changes in my life, have been able to deal (usually) with spiritual problems as they arise & help many others. I’ve encountered spirits, cast out spirits, healed people, cursed people, and my success in spellwork is like 5x what it was before taking the system. I’ve also found its methods of mysticism to be deeply enlightening, and it has a lot of great ideas and features that I haven’t found anywhere else.

Jason’s overall practical mindset towards magic is among the best. He cuts through a lot of bullshit that modern occultism is swamped with, and really teaches you how to be an effective competent practitioner.
That said, I don’t believe his work is “the best magic ever, and beats everything out there”. I generally don’t think it’s up to the system as much as it is the individual skill & commitment of the practitioner. Jason gives a very good system that I’d strongly recommend. But there are many other systems that I’m sure are good too, so:
Is it worth the money? I say yes, but in all fairness the money wasn’t too much of an issue for me. If you are not financially in a place to spend $700 on a magic course, don’t. Stick to his books, which are also excellent and can be found here for free.
If you have the money though, and if you’re going to put it towards any one occult thing I seriously would advise spending it on Sorcery of Hekate. It is by far the magnum opus of Jason’s work

Criticisms:
1. Typos and mistakes abound in his work. He’s clearly lazy and scatterbrained, which is fine, many people are, but he could do with hiring someone to look things over. It’s just annoying and unprofessional.
2. Strategic Sorcery is probably the worst with this. I’m talking grammar errors that a 4th grader wouldn’t make. The lessons are packed with cool stuff to experiment with, but you’re basically reading half-baked first drafts and I was honestly pretty pissed that I had spent money on it. It’s free on here so I will say, dig through it. You’ll learn a lot. But you’ll also see what I mean with the horrendous presentation.
3. I didn’t like the Black School. Got it for free off this site, thankfully didn’t spend the money. It’s a whole bunch of stuff that honestly you could figure out just by reading contemporary grimoire authors. Might’ve been cool as a 2 or 3 part arcane audio series. The price point makes you think that it’s a complete system the way SOH is, and honestly, it feels like he cobbled it together just to have a SOH-tier product for the Solomonic crowd.
I’ve also moved away from Christianity entirely since this, for entirely different reasons (relating to the research of a certain Dr. Hillman). But yeah even when I was all about incorporating Christianity into my practice, I found Cyprian very underwhelming compared to SOH.
4. Many of the arcane audios are good but not worth $60 each just to hear him talk for ~2 hours, with ultimately less info than an average book. Would be great as a YouTube channel.
5. He’s currently marketing a “strategic sorcery deep dive” which is a retake of the Strategic Sorcery class, except with Q&As each week. This costs $600, and you still have to buy Strategic Sorcery ($150) if you haven’t already. In his defense, the Q&As of his courses usually are excellent, and this is really where he conveys a lot of the mindset of how to apply magic to irl situations effectively. But come on dude $600 for something that doesn’t even have any new content. I certainly will not be buying it.


Tl;Dr: Sorcery of Hekate is one of the best things out there, but Jason is overall mid, most of his material aside from SOH is sloppy and overpriced. My conclusion is Hekate herself found reason to use this guy to convey her teachings. So give it a try if you have the means, but don’t get too into the Jason fan club

 

[MehenVox]

I’ve taken SOH 1, 2 and 3, and years later it is still the foundation of my practice (alongside meditation and some Helios-centric planetary work). I’ve had success way beyond my expectations with it, both in terms of spiritual experiences and measurable physical-world results. I’ve made my way into a great career, financial success, many positive changes in my life, have been able to deal (usually) with spiritual problems as they arise & help many others. I’ve encountered spirits, cast out spirits, healed people, cursed people, and my success in spellwork is like 5x what it was before taking the system. I’ve also found its methods of mysticism to be deeply enlightening, and it has a lot of great ideas and features that I haven’t found anywhere else.

Jason’s overall practical mindset towards magic is among the best. He cuts through a lot of bullshit that modern occultism is swamped with, and really teaches you how to be an effective competent practitioner.
That said, I don’t believe his work is “the best magic ever, and beats everything out there”. I generally don’t think it’s up to the system as much as it is the individual skill & commitment of the practitioner. Jason gives a very good system that I’d strongly recommend. But there are many other systems that I’m sure are good too, so:
Is it worth the money? I say yes, but in all fairness the money wasn’t too much of an issue for me. If you are not financially in a place to spend $700 on a magic course, don’t. Stick to his books, which are also excellent and can be found here for free.
If you have the money though, and if you’re going to put it towards any one occult thing I seriously would advise spending it on Sorcery of Hekate. It is by far the magnum opus of Jason’s work

Criticisms:
1. Typos and mistakes abound in his work. He’s clearly lazy and scatterbrained, which is fine, many people are, but he could do with hiring someone to look things over. It’s just annoying and unprofessional.
2. Strategic Sorcery is probably the worst with this. I’m talking grammar errors that a 4th grader wouldn’t make. The lessons are packed with cool stuff to experiment with, but you’re basically reading half-baked first drafts and I was honestly pretty pissed that I had spent money on it. It’s free on here so I will say, dig through it. You’ll learn a lot. But you’ll also see what I mean with the horrendous presentation.
3. I didn’t like the Black School. Got it for free off this site, thankfully didn’t spend the money. It’s a whole bunch of stuff that honestly you could figure out just by reading contemporary grimoire authors. Might’ve been cool as a 2 or 3 part arcane audio series. The price point makes you think that it’s a complete system the way SOH is, and honestly, it feels like he cobbled it together just to have a SOH-tier product for the Solomonic crowd.
I’ve also moved away from Christianity entirely since this, for entirely different reasons (relating to the research of a certain Dr. Hillman). But yeah even when I was all about incorporating Christianity into my practice, I found Cyprian very underwhelming compared to SOH.
4. Many of the arcane audios are good but not worth $60 each just to hear him talk for ~2 hours, with ultimately less info than an average book. Would be great as a YouTube channel.
5. He’s currently marketing a “strategic sorcery deep dive” which is a retake of the Strategic Sorcery class, except with Q&As each week. This costs $600, and you still have to buy Strategic Sorcery ($150) if you haven’t already. In his defense, the Q&As of his courses usually are excellent, and this is really where he conveys a lot of the mindset of how to apply magic to irl situations effectively. But come on dude $600 for something that doesn’t even have any new content. I certainly will not be buying it.


Tl;Dr: Sorcery of Hekate is one of the best things out there, but Jason is overall mid, most of his material aside from SOH is sloppy and overpriced. My conclusion is Hekate herself found reason to use this guy to convey her teachings. So give it a try if you have the means, but don’t get too into the Jason fan club

One of the best reviews I've ever seen. Thank you so much for the time that you put to write it.

Would you recommend starting with strategic sorcery or SOH?

 

[aphratt0s]

One of the best reviews I've ever seen. Thank you so much for the time that you put to write it.

Would you recommend starting with strategic sorcery or SOH?

I’d go straight for SOH honestly. Strategic Sorcery is cool, definitely check it out (it’s free on this site) but it’s not a complete system in the way SOH is, and I wouldn’t say it’s even worth the $150. SOH on the other hand is worth more than $700 in my opinion.

 

[darkphoenix]

Recently Jason Miller was whining on Facebook about being accused of gatekeeping and stuff, and Sorita d'Este jumped in and was like, "I LOVE gatekeeping, it's just like my goddess." Talk about revealing your fucking hand.

Feel free to look at my post earlier in this thread about gurus being psychic vampires - and someone earlier in this thread called Sorita d'Este, Jason, and others narcissists. That gatekeeping is exactly why their students are getting pissed off and leaking the courses. I've also leaked an entire Tantra course for the same reason - feel free to have a look in the Library!

Take it from me, these people are narcs. They siphon your energy...I tried the Sorcery of Hekate core mantra and my spirits told me to stop and amend it, because Jason Miller gets energy from anyone who chants the Sorcery of Hekate core mantra. I know this because I had to do cord cuttings with my gurus so that they wouldn't siphon energy from my practice. They DO gatekeep access to the gods. And no Sorita, you're not being like your goddess, fuck off.

 

[Morell]

Recently Jason Miller was whining on Facebook about being accused of gatekeeping and stuff, and Sorita d'Este jumped in and was like, "I LOVE gatekeeping, it's just like my goddess." Talk about revealing your fucking hand.

Feel free to look at my post earlier in this thread about gurus being psychic vampires - and someone earlier in this thread called Sorita d'Este, Jason, and others narcissists. That gatekeeping is exactly why their students are getting pissed off and leaking the courses. I've also leaked an entire Tantra course for the same reason - feel free to have a look in the Library!

Take it from me, these people are narcs. They siphon your energy...I tried the Sorcery of Hekate core mantra and my spirits told me to stop and amend it, because Jason Miller gets energy from anyone who chants the Sorcery of Hekate core mantra. I know this because I had to do cord cuttings with my gurus so that they wouldn't siphon energy from my practice. They DO gatekeep access to the gods. And no Sorita, you're not being like your goddess, fuck off.

Didn't know that he got into narcism and these ideas, but it makes sense. His beginner books are great. Consorting with spirits is good book that I really like. But you cannot be beginner forever. I assume that he didn't go much deep in introspection and self improvement. Needless to say, the success is real test of character.

 

[aviaf]

@Lyssia @Mart What would be the first book you would recommend from Jason Miller? I have downloaded multiple books from him

The Sorcerers Secrets and Financial Sorcery had some good shit. His sigils in FS were quite useful as I was learning

@Lyssia @Mart What would be the first book you would recommend from Jason Miller? I have downloaded multiple books from him

Sorcerer's Secrets and/or Financial Sorcery. Honestly the only 2 I've read but I can say his Jupiter sigils were useful and the Bune petition also worked, back in 2014 when I was working with his material.

 

[Faria]

This is my very brief review of Jason Miller's "Sorcery of Hecate" course.

If you are a total normie who wants to reshape yourself to match the magicK aesthetic, this massive LARP guide is essential to your development. I see no benefit in this course for anyone who has set the slightest foot on the esoteric path. It is a basic introduction with a style guide, and little more than that. It is not useful as a peer guide to how another magician works, as this is clearly made for students and is not accurately representing Miller's own personal practices. This is a set of things for you to do, to make you feel like you are getting your money's worth, but it's not a window into what Miller himself does or believes.

You will not be learning anything about the broad and ancient traditions of magic found around the world. You will be doing a lot of visualizing of gods and singing to them in Greek. You will be kept busy, and in between these busy times you will be reading Jason's version of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." This course is not designed to elevate your practice or assist you in becoming a powerful sorcerer, but to give you something to occupy your time and encourage you to think highly of yourself for doing it. You are not buying a magical instruction course, you are paying to be able to say you took this course.

The entire thing is put together from assorted scraps. Some of those were invented by the author, some were collected from such august authorities as Stephen Flowers and other names you would recognize on 1990s paperbacks. You are not learning an existing or historical system of practice, nor the system employed by the author, but instead you are getting a system that the author invented and then decided to sell to you as a package. That in itself does not invalidate the material, but students should know what kind of worms are in the can. You could replace every god-name or mythological deity in this book with entirely made-up names and the course would have exactly the same value.

I sincerely believe that a student would get ten times as much value from buying a few books and putting together their own system. If you have $700 and an hour a day, you can do it, and it will be better for you. The full course can be summarized in a few words: read things that connect you to themes that interest you, and dedicate yourself to the practices you build from them.

Now that people can hop on over to the share thread and see exactly what's in this course, I expect the hype will tarnish as people can evaluate it for its actual strengths and weaknesses outside of the controlled environment.

 

[OberonFromTheHills]

read things that connect you to themes that interest you, and dedicate yourself to the practices you build from them.

 

[aphratt0s]

This is my very brief review of Jason Miller's "Sorcery of Hecate" course.

If you are a total normie who wants to reshape yourself to match the magicK aesthetic, this massive LARP guide is essential to your development. I see no benefit in this course for anyone who has set the slightest foot on the esoteric path. It is a basic introduction with a style guide, and little more than that. It is not useful as a peer guide to how another magician works, as this is clearly made for students and is not accurately representing Miller's own personal practices. This is a set of things for you to do, to make you feel like you are getting your money's worth, but it's not a window into what Miller himself does or believes.

You will not be learning anything about the broad and ancient traditions of magic found around the world. You will be doing a lot of visualizing of gods and singing to them in Greek. You will be kept busy, and in between these busy times you will be reading Jason's version of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." This course is not designed to elevate your practice or assist you in becoming a powerful sorcerer, but to give you something to occupy your time and encourage you to think highly of yourself for doing it. You are not buying a magical instruction course, you are paying to be able to say you took this course.

The entire thing is put together from assorted scraps. Some of those were invented by the author, some were collected from such august authorities as Stephen Flowers and other names you would recognize on 1990s paperbacks. You are not learning an existing or historical system of practice, nor the system employed by the author, but instead you are getting a system that the author invented and then decided to sell to you as a package. That in itself does not invalidate the material, but students should know what kind of worms are in the can. You could replace every god-name or mythological deity in this book with entirely made-up names and the course would have exactly the same value.

I sincerely believe that a student would get ten times as much value from buying a few books and putting together their own system. If you have $700 and an hour a day, you can do it, and it will be better for you. The full course can be summarized in a few words: read things that connect you to themes that interest you, and dedicate yourself to the practices you build from them.

Now that people can hop on over to the share thread and see exactly what's in this course, I expect the hype will tarnish as people can evaluate it for its actual strengths and weaknesses outside of the controlled environment.

I’m not a Jason shill or anything (see my review above) but every word of this is completely wrong. No it’s not a “basic introduction”, no there’s nothing from Stephen Flowers in it, yes it is the system Jason practices. He doesn’t claim that it’s historical, nor that it will give any kind of broad overview of magic. What you get is a deep dive into a specific system of magic.

you might as well make up your own system

No, because making up your own thing isn’t the same as practicing an existing, revealed system. There is a right and wrong way to do magic. It’s not about “what YOU believe” and “what YOU like”. I can promise anyone here that if you put time and commitment into doing Sorcery of Hekate as presented, you will get results.

you could replace every god name with made up names and get the same results

Alright never mind. Thought I was talking to a serious practitioner here. Have a good day

Post automatically merged: Nov 19, 2024

This is my very brief review of Jason Miller's "Sorcery of Hecate" course.

If you are a total normie who wants to reshape yourself to match the magicK aesthetic, this massive LARP guide is essential to your development. I see no benefit in this course for anyone who has set the slightest foot on the esoteric path. It is a basic introduction with a style guide, and little more than that. It is not useful as a peer guide to how another magician works, as this is clearly made for students and is not accurately representing Miller's own personal practices. This is a set of things for you to do, to make you feel like you are getting your money's worth, but it's not a window into what Miller himself does or believes.

You will not be learning anything about the broad and ancient traditions of magic found around the world. You will be doing a lot of visualizing of gods and singing to them in Greek. You will be kept busy, and in between these busy times you will be reading Jason's version of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." This course is not designed to elevate your practice or assist you in becoming a powerful sorcerer, but to give you something to occupy your time and encourage you to think highly of yourself for doing it. You are not buying a magical instruction course, you are paying to be able to say you took this course.

The entire thing is put together from assorted scraps. Some of those were invented by the author, some were collected from such august authorities as Stephen Flowers and other names you would recognize on 1990s paperbacks. You are not learning an existing or historical system of practice, nor the system employed by the author, but instead you are getting a system that the author invented and then decided to sell to you as a package. That in itself does not invalidate the material, but students should know what kind of worms are in the can. You could replace every god-name or mythological deity in this book with entirely made-up names and the course would have exactly the same value.

I sincerely believe that a student would get ten times as much value from buying a few books and putting together their own system. If you have $700 and an hour a day, you can do it, and it will be better for you. The full course can be summarized in a few words: read things that connect you to themes that interest you, and dedicate yourself to the practices you build from them.

Now that people can hop on over to the share thread and see exactly what's in this course, I expect the hype will tarnish as people can evaluate it for its actual strengths and weaknesses outside of the controlled environment.

in this book

you will be reading

Hahaha wait you didn’t even take the course? Dude come on. Genuinely curious now, what is your reason for pretending to have taken a course just to shit on it?

 

[Faria]

there’s nothing from Stephen Flowers in it,

"31:40 - The Serpent's Chant
I got this song from Stephen E. Flower's "Fire and Ice", his book on the Fraternitas Saturni. It can be chanted or sung after the triangle goddesses.There is no need to invoke the serpent as it is ever present. Jason Miller - The Sorcery of Hekate - Lesson 6"

Sure about that?

I stand behind everything I've said here, except maybe for calling this a "book" when I am reading it as PDF files.

I'm not going to clog the thread with more of it.

 

[aphratt0s]

"31:40 - The Serpent's Chant
I got this song from Stephen E. Flower's "Fire and Ice", his book on the Fraternitas Saturni. It can be chanted or sung after the triangle goddesses.There is no need to invoke the serpent as it is ever present. Jason Miller - The Sorcery of Hekate - Lesson 6"

Sure about that?

I stand behind everything I've said here, except maybe for calling this a "book" when I am reading it as PDF files.

I'm not going to clog the thread with more of it.

It’s an audio course. Some videos, mostly audio. So what you’re telling me is you didn’t take the course. Did someone leak pdf summaries or something?

 

[Faria]

It’s an audio course. Some videos, mostly audio. So what you’re telling me is you didn’t take the course. Did someone leak pdf summaries or something?

I have the full course, including the audio and supplemental files, from the Book Shares section of this site.

 

[beardedeldridge]

Alright guys I know it’s trendy to shit on JM now but daammmnnnn.

(Quick point of fact, I’m not and never was much of a JM fan, that being said I have come to appreciate more of his stuff as I’ve aged a bit.)

Rant:

Let’s be honest with ourselves for a minute. We do magic, that means:

• we wank off on little drawings or
• we put out snacks for invisible forest beings or
• we wear little paper crowns and amulets or
• we sit in dark rooms trying to converse with our higher selves or
• we wield fake swords to threaten entities that a shit ton of really smart people swear don’t exist or
• we do a near endless number of other equally silly sounding things so chill out a bit

Is his system a good system to use? Let everyone figure that out for their self. (That’s why we found it and provided it here)

Do I think his system has worked for him? His stories do ring of truth (yep I got a Hobbit quote in here).

Can you make shit happen using it? If you can do magic then yes.

Is his stuff pricey? YES.

Is he making an honest effort to provide a working system to the community while making a living at it? Also yes.

Rant off.

-Eld

 

[Asteriskos]

I've extracted a Lot of worthwhile stuff from his Books. But I'm sure glad this thread got created so I didn't have to do it myself! I've always wanted to comment on the B$$$ of the courses, er... "Price" of the courses. Was it P.T. Barnum that uttered the cunningly cutting observation about a "fool and his money"? To say that they're "overpriced" is the understatement of the Decade, IMO! This doesn't even begin to express my thoughts on the matter -> Gee, glad I got that out!

@OberonFromTheHills Your graphics are Hilarious, and worth More than the price of his "courses", once again, IMO!

Post automatically merged: Nov 21, 2024

Alright guys I know it’s trendy to shit on JM now but daammmnnnn.

(Quick point of fact, I’m not and never was much of a JM fan, that being said I have come to appreciate more of his stuff as I’ve aged a bit.)

Rant:

Let’s be honest with ourselves for a minute. We do magic, that means:

• we wank off on little drawings or
• we put out snacks for invisible forest beings or
• we wear little paper crowns and amulets or
• we sit in dark rooms trying to converse with our higher selves or
• we wield fake swords to threaten entities that a shit ton of really smart people swear don’t exist or
• we do a near endless number of other equally silly sounding things so chill out a bit

Is his system a good system to use? Let everyone figure that out for their self. (That’s why we found it and provided it here)

Do I think his system has worked for him? His stories do ring of truth (yep I got a Hobbit quote in here).

Can you make shit happen using it? If you can do magic then yes.

Is his stuff pricey? YES.

Is he making an honest effort to provide a working system to the community while making a living at it? Also yes.

Rant off.

-Eld

Some very "Well Said" comments (emphasis Mine) and well thought out too!

Post automatically merged: Nov 21, 2024

Recently Jason Miller was whining on Facebook about being accused of gatekeeping and stuff, and Sorita d'Este jumped in and was like, "I LOVE gatekeeping, it's just like my goddess." Talk about revealing your fucking hand.

Feel free to look at my post earlier in this thread about gurus being psychic vampires - and someone earlier in this thread called Sorita d'Este, Jason, and others narcissists. That gatekeeping is exactly why their students are getting pissed off and leaking the courses. I've also leaked an entire Tantra course for the same reason - feel free to have a look in the Library!

Take it from me, these people are narcs. They siphon your energy...I tried the Sorcery of Hekate core mantra and my spirits told me to stop and amend it, because Jason Miller gets energy from anyone who chants the Sorcery of Hekate core mantra. I know this because I had to do cord cuttings with my gurus so that they wouldn't siphon energy from my practice. They DO gatekeep access to the gods. And no Sorita, you're not being like your goddess, fuck off.

<thesis>
I Have gained Value from from books and courses on the subjects mentioned in this thread! I Bought the books, but, when an author blatantly
states "Go ahead, take my Money!" for a course, it's just too damned Blatant and Laughable.

That said, there sure seems to be some sort of "consensus" between the publishers and authors within this genre / sub-genre of the "industry".
It might easily be construed as "gatekeeping" by lots of folks. It's not unusual to find 2-3 pages (or more) of cross endorsements of each others
books and materials, et al. The overall "implication" is that "we" have the only real answer's to these things because we all Agree that's true, and so should You?

First and Foremost I think that one has to consider the "reality" that the "Primary" purpose here is to Make Money! Both my wife and I have
had experience in Large corporations, as well periods being "self employed". Elementary business training will Always emphasize that the the Only justification for a business is to Make Money! Call it "Crass Commercialism", or your favorite term of the day, week, month, et al.
Hopefully, that commercialism delivers something of Value. Ultimately the person forking out the money is the "real judge" on that one.

At one time Jason Miller "unabashedly" had a statement regarding his Strategic Sorcery course on his website which said:
"Go ahead, take my Money!",

$150.00. Admittedly, I had to Laugh! there's noting like being "up front"! The "leaked" course became available for the simple reason that
other folks feel that's ridiculous as well! $150.00 is Not a vast sum of money, but many people don't walk over to the "shredder" and feed it in?

$700.00 x 3 = $2100.00 for all three modules of his SoH course in a class by itself: "You Pay your Nickel and take Your Chance!"

"Some folks get angry if / when they're ripped off, others are loathe to admit it because it's embarrassing for them, especially if they profess to practice Magic/k!

Regarding the "energy vampirism" aspect of some of these people, if a "magician, sorcerer, witch or wizard" isn't able to "discern for themselves" that it's happening, they may want to revise how they see themselves, there's a "gaping hole" in their practice! It's all too common for "gurus, cult leaders, high priests / priestesses, etc., to bask in the energy of their admiring flocks of sheep! Of course the random energy vampires, both witting and unwitting are not difficult to single out either, you can sense them before you enter a room! That's perhaps understandable for "normal" folks not to sense, but neither I, nor my "dogs of defense" like that shit! Condoning that serves No One, for my part, it's That Simple!
</thesis>

 

[Azerate]

Why don't you ask Hecate? Ask her if Jason Miller, Jack Grayle, or Mark Alan Smith's teachings are correct? Then compare the answers.

 

[stellarjourneyman]

First of all, I understand people's strong wariness toward highly-visible "gurus" who peddle their wares. There's so much BS out there, and so much toxicity between the visible occult influencers, as well as so much cliquishness, that it's hard to discern the wheat from the chaff. I get it. Magic itself is so occulted that skepticism and discernment need to be built-in to my approach. But the resentment here is not helpful.

I'm in SoH, and thus far, I like it. I like the setup, i've had fun experiences. I've only just started doing the spellwork, so no claims as to what kind of results I've gotten. So, TBD on my full assessment, since practical results will make or break it for me. If the spellwork works, I'm going to buy the two other courses. However, I have a few points to make:

1. People deserve to make a living off of their work. I don't see JM flaunting a six-figure lifestyle or anything. He's got a family, probably wants to put his kids in college, and life is expensive. So stop accusing anyone who makes money off of the occult as being a grifter. It's hard to make magic your living, and he's doing it successfully--that alone is perhaps a data point in your favor that his systems work, that he's able to do this and support a family.

I've personally been extremely frustrated by the occult community lately because I'm just a solo practitioner doing their thing who wants to talk to others and share notes and so much conversation revolves around courses/books/materia sales. So I get it. The occult community used to be anti-money to a toxic degree, and now the culture is suffering because everyone is selling something and all the sellers are friends with each other and trying to get you to spend money on yourself or their friends. But that doesn't make people who sell magical information de facto bad.

2. Who cares if he used a song written by someone else to do anything as long as he has a good reason for it? Also, a ton of accusations stated in this thread just aren't verifiable. Citation needed. I know occult authors get up to some dirty shit, but at least have some backing before you make a claim about them.

3. His writing does suck, lol. As an editor, it's painful. As a teacher, I wish he'd just make certain things clearer in the course--as it stands, he has a habit of making easily-cleared-up things unclear and then rolling his eyes when people ask about them in the Q&A. He's a skilled communicator in a lot of ways (verbally) but that's not good pedagogy.

4. Revelation happens. Revelation did not stop at some arbitrary point 50 years ago. People are having revelations now. Is some of it bullshit? A lot of it, actually! And he talks about this frequently. But some of it isn't! how do we know it's not bullshit? By trying it.

I ONLY buy from occult practitioners who have made publicly available some spells or methods they used, because before buying anything from them, I try it. If it works, I will consider buying. This is one reason I buy from the Practical Occult store, which can be pretty pricey--I tried some helpful methods the owner posted on various FB groups, and they worked. Occasionally, as an alternative, if they offer readings, I will buy a reading and if the reading is accurate, I will be a repeat customer. I highly recommend this method! It helps a lot. I plunked down for SoH because I've tried other things of JM's that have worked.

If you don't feel like spending the money, I like Jack Grayle and I imagine the Hekataeon is a much more accessible intro.

 

[Faria]

It's hard to make magic your living, and he's doing it successfully

Is he? I doubt that. I'm not aware of his personal life, but if he's not living in a van somewhere, he's not making enough from occult guru sales to cover his basic living expenses, much less call it successful. He's not raking in thousands of dollars a month with such regularity that a bank would give him a mortgage or an apartment would give him a lease. He's welcome to prove me wrong on that, but I'm certain he has other income streams in his household that cover most of his expenses. So he's not financially successful at selling magic, at least not successful enough to actually make much of a living from it.

But let's say he is. We can pretend. Let's say he's making major guru bucks. So what good is his magic if all it does it sell itself? That's the definition of an MLM, telling people that they can see how valuable his teaching is because of what it did for him, when the best they can do with it is the same thing. If you ignore his books and teachings, and anything magical done in relation to them, what else has his magic done for him that would qualify it as successful?

Post automatically merged: Monday at 10:53 PM

If you're "not aware of his personal life," I'm not sure why you're opining, much less claiming outright "you're certain he has other income streams."

For all I know, he might live in a van. Maybe he doesn't. But if he isn't living in a van, I can guarantee you he isn't paying his bills on the profits of Jason Miller Inc. without other major contributing income streams. Publishing pays very little, and occult publishing pays even less than that. Fifty people paying full price for Sorcery of Hecate every single year is still less than $40K, and that's bound to dry up before long. I don't need to know anything about his personal life to know that a person cannot afford anything resembling decent family living on what you get from occult publishing and classes.

But what I want is an occult culture where businessmen are held to a high but reasonable standard

I would like to see an occult culture where people become well known for their use of magic, rather than for their teaching of it for pay. Those who can, do; and those who can't, teach. If their magic is worth anything, let them use it for something other than "successfully" selling it.