Anyone find that your Religion/God messes with your magick and actively ruins your life?

[HocusPocus]

I grew up Buddhist, I am not anymore. Still I pray once in a while to hedge my best in the afterlife, it seems like my Buddhist practices are actively interfering with my magick spells to improve my life i.e increase iq, etc.

I've gotten alot of good results from Gallery of Magick's books but something about Buddhism doesn't seem to like the fact that I am enjoying my life and infact now that my life is better I noticed Buddhism actually exacerbated my mental and emotional issues rather than solve it.

 

[HocusPocus]

I don't know if we have a Buddhist expert here. Nor do I consider it necessary to convert you. I have limited knowledge of Buddhism. I primarily suggest that you have limited knowledge. You don't feel like someone to me whose much looked into Buddhism. You don't feel like someone whose much looked into the occult either. You have some bad experience with your heritage, and ask if your vague limited background in Buddhism is interfering with your vague limited practice in the occult.

I dunno. Whatever.

As for Pure Land - while they would generally advise it's practice, based on having read some Honen or certainly Shinran, I don't get the impression that continual practice is necessary to be "saved", so much as that one might benefit. I can comment from my own minor experience with it that unending chanting is not necessary to get results from it. I don't think chanting is a necessary component at all.

" by the efficacy of the ancient prayer of that Tathagata, those who think of and remember him shall certainly be able to accomplish their aim."

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"the beings who will be born in the middle form of the highest grade are those who do not necessarily learn, remember, study, or recite those Vaipulya Sutras, but fully understand the meaning of the truth contained in them, and having a firm grasp of the highest truth do not speak evil of the Mahayana doctrine, but deeply believe in (the principle of) cause and effect"

Simplification into chanting is, if I recall, Honen. I would have to read Honen again, but I do not think this is the point. The chanting is a simplification so that more people can do it. If you cannot remember the Buddha Amitabha, then just chant him, you can improve your station that way. The doctrine that you will go to hell if your practice fails - this is contrary to what I understand of it. Whores go to the Pure Land. Maybe someone with some extreme variety of sin does not go there.

Five Grave Offenses (killing one's father, killing one's mother, killing an arhat, shedding the blood of a Buddha, and creating a schism in the Sangha) might find it challenging to be reborn in the Pure Land without sincere repentance.

I didn't imply that you guys were here to convert me nor any offense towards any members, I was just asking Xeno if the Monks who are known for fear mongering (pretty much every denomination of Buddhism is similar tbh) then who or what would be a trusted source of practice? Since he previously mentioned his Chinese co-workers didn't experience similar oppression as I did under the same religion.


As for Pureland Buddhism I've shared my experience, if it is like Honen and Shinran said that would be very nice. Still I have to make sure that any practice of Buddhism doesn't contradict or dampen my Occult practices in anyways. Whenever I do a Buddhist chant I just feel really sluggish and tired, my negative emotions also become amplified and I become more uncontrolled in my impulses. Anyways as for some sources on Amitabha Buddhism I recommend the Amitabha Sutra and Contemplation Sutra, here's a quote from the Contemplation Sutra :

"One should practice Buddha-recitation in a state of Samadhi, focusing on Amitabha Buddha with unwavering concentration and purity of mind, so that one's mind becomes one with the Buddha’s mind. This continuous and deep meditation is essential for achieving rebirth in the Pure Land."

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2024

Interesting situation. A lot has been said already and I agree with that, there are two kinds of blocks in your way,I guess that you are dealing with both:
Internal: your faith and programming telling you what is right, but no longer fitting with the path that you follow
External: people around you, or people you have connection with having their own opinion on what is right and passively or actively influencing you.

Dealing with internal programming is what i like to call a problem of a scientist, who is trying to prove his theory but ends up with big evidence that it's wrong. Then he must give up and let go of it. You said that your internal voice tells you to leave buddhism but you cannot. I cannot see into your mind to tell you which way is the true one for you, you have to find it and follow it.
It can get more difficult when people around you are influencing you and there is always someone. I hate when Christians pray for me, because always it ends with some spirit in angel shape coming to me trying to influence me. That is form of magic although they do not see it so they cannot admit it. So I keep clearing my personal space from these spirits and energies that do not belong to me and would manipulate me the way I do not wish to go. I have to watch what is in my mind and what does and doesn't belong with me.

As with your afterlife, in my experience things are never exactly as we expect. Sometimes very far off what we expect. Even if described correctly, it ends to be something different because what we read or hear makes us form an idea from our understanding. Actually hearing that someone would achieve some place by being consumed by mantra feels scary to me. last thing I would like to become is a radio constantly playing one song for someone's pleasure.

Hmmh, it's interesting to me that you get manipulated by Spirits of Angels as well ... you don't feel these beings want to help you in anyways?

That's quite interesting to me that beings traditionally seen as benevolent can potentially be malevolent ... helps alot actually.

 

[Jackson]

"One should practice Buddha-recitation in a state of Samadhi, focusing on Amitabha Buddha with unwavering concentration and purity of mind, so that one's mind becomes one with the Buddha’s mind. This continuous and deep meditation is essential for achieving rebirth in the Pure Land."

If you would be able to find it here or provide a link, that would be interesting.

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[Xenophon]

If w

Well then the question is are they a trusted authority to speak on Buddhist matters? I mean they committed more time and dedication than me certainly.

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2024

Yeah Honen and Shinran, developed the Pureland faith further and started the trend of renouncing other Buddhist practices i.e meditation, sutra reading, etc since it was unviable and difficult for the laymen populations of their time. Honen however was still quite critical that you needed to chant un-endingly without ending your attention on Amitabha's name while Shinran himself sort of implied that he would be lost in reincarnation anyways but to use the name of Amitabha as an anchor so that you may reach a sufficient life time where you have sufficient Samadhi to reach the Purelands.

This of course were huge deviation from the main practice of Pureland Buddhism which was at that time derived from the Tiandai/Tientai schools. In those schools there were stories of Monks being able to spit out light from their mouth from single-mindedly chanting Amitabha, like I said you don't need to take my word you can look at Hsuan Hua or Chin Kung both very venerable monks who are the head of the Chan/Pureland faction in Chian respectively.

Post automatically merged: Jul 10, 2024

Growing up I was told that if I even had angry thoughts towards my parents I would end up in Hell, this included angry thoughts from receiving beatings and bullying from them. I was told people disliked me in School due to my bad karma and I am simply a bad person with bad karma and I deserve the abuse given to me, if I ever tried to fight back I would earn more bad karma.

One time I remember my father beating me rather badly and I started crying and getting really frustrated, my mother told me that he is my father and asked me how I dared to be angry at him. She then proceeded to tell me about the possible punishments I will face in Hell.

I would say such monks are rogue-authorities. Notice, I said some temples. In 2002, I hung out at temples that were quite the opposite. Abuse of authority is known in all traditions.

To answer your question in a word, no. The monks I referenced are not representative of Buddhism. You seem to have had simple bad luck of the draw in your life.

 

[Jackson]

Although I have read in some Buddhism that one's choice of guru is of utmost importance, I would personally suggest that a total emphasis on trusted-authority seeking is not neither the wisest, nor the most tasteful thing I have ever had the misfortune of perceiving.

As a retarded person, and a homosexual, I consider the slavish mindsets I encounter, and would suggest frequently found in innumerable more neurotypical males, a most deplorable and wretched state.

 

[Xenophon]

Although I have read in some Buddhism that one's choice of guru is of utmost importance, I would personally suggest that a total emphasis on trusted-authority seeking is not neither the wisest, nor the most tasteful thing I have ever had the misfortune of perceiving.

As a retarded person, and a homosexual, I consider the slavish mindsets I encounter, and would suggest frequently found in innumerable more neurotypical males, a most deplorable and wretched state.

Rant you are, sirrah, rant you are! But this is not particularly a religious phenomenon now, is it?

 

[Jackson]

Rant you are, sirrah, rant you are! But this is not particularly a religious phenomenon now, is it?

I assume it's a neurotypical phenomenon. HocusPocus is probably Asian looking too.

As a homosexual, you cannot imagine my disturbed horror, seeing a beautiful male ignorantly going on about trusted authorities.

PRESERVE ME! DELIVER MY MIND UNTO RETARDATION RATHER THAN ASS KISSING! GOD HELP ME!

 

[Xenophon]

I assume it's a neurotypical phenomenon. HocusPocus is probably Asian looking too.

As a homosexual, you cannot imagine my disturbed horror, seeing a beautiful male ignorantly going on about trusted authorities.

PRESERVE ME! DELIVER MY MIND UNTO RETARDATION RATHER THAN ASS KISSING! GOD HELP ME!

Me, I learnt long ago that before getting into a fight, some elementary instruction from a real boxer was helpful. You, know, one of them aerful autocratic nasty nasty mens, the "trusted authorities." Same held true with driving a car, shooting a rifle, even doing CPR, and shining my shoes. I would reckon that advice in matters of religion and magick is on a similar footing. But, yeah. If you want circumstances to keep stomping a mud hole in your aerse, enjoy.

 

[Jackson]

You, know, one of them aerful autocratic nasty nasty mens, the "trusted authorities."

Sir, I do not recall denouncing authorities. Merely slavish mindsets.

I happen to be something of a student of the cHINESE autocratic tradition myself.

Every day, I study the HAN FEIZI. I have FAR more authoritarian knowledge than you, surely.

Do you know what Daodejing section 17 says about the ruler?

 

[Xenophon]

Sir, I do not recall denouncing authorities. Merely slavish mindsets.

I happen to be something of a student of the cHINESE autocratic tradition myself.

Every day, I study the HAN FEIZI. I have FAR more authoritarian knowledge than you, surely.

Do you know what Daodejing section 17 says about the ruler?

You are, of course, completely right. Inexcusable of me not to have noticed that straightaway. I must have some deficiency of character. I find it impossible to be as impressed with you as you are with yourself.

 

[Jackson]

You are, of course, completely right. Inexcusable of me not to have noticed that straightaway.

I appreciate that. I would be horrified if you thought me an actual rebel.
I cannot be a rebel. Slavishness does not touch the skin of my mind.

My mind is pure like the morning dew. Reserved for pure thoughts, like man on man love.

 

[Xenophon]

I appreciate that. I would be horrified if you thought me an actual rebel.
I cannot be a rebel. Slavishness does not touch the skin of my mind.

My mind is pure like the morning dew. Reserved for pure thoughts, like man on man love.

Anyhow, to answer your earlier question, yes I am familiar with the 道德经 Dao De Jing #17. That's the one where the people declare, "We did it ourselves," and the sagely king (the one with mind like morning dew) starts screeching, "Every day, I study the HAN FEIZI. I have FAR more authoritarian knowledge than you, surely."

 

[Jackson]

Anyhow, to answer your earlier question, yes I am familiar with the 道德经 Dao De Jing #17. That's the one where the people declare, "We did it ourselves," and the sagely king (the one with mind like morning dew) starts screeching, "Every day, I study the HAN FEIZI. I have FAR more authoritarian knowledge than you, surely."

The Confucians blather: the king is like the head, the ministers the arms; the king must stay near and dear, express his virtuous desires.

Seeking his close attendance, urging him to express 'virtuous' likes and dislikes, you know they watch for his secret faults thereby.

 

[HoldAll]

To return to the subject at hand, I'd say it's very common to become disillusioned with your childhood religion or even hostile towards it. After this initial stage there comes the long slog of deconstructing it intellectually, all too often only to fall into the trap of shopping around for a new faith (as did many occultist in the past who were raised as Protestants, took up magic and eventually ended up as Roman Catholics) because of a nagging feeling of atheist guilt.

Religion provides emotional security because it fosters the illusion of a well-ordered world with a supreme supervisor at the top or at least a more or less clearcut path to salvation while atheism usually involves an uncaring, chaotic universe mostly inimical to mankind with incidental pockets of order. Many seekers find this idea hard to stomach and desperately grope around for a new comforting creed. Critics have pointed out that atheism is just another religion, esp. when it sets itself up in stark opposition with established faiths and engages in shouting matches with them. Pure nihilism or the Random Belief stance of chaos magic are probably not viable alternatives either if you are still looking for the comfort of a clearly defined belief system.

Magic in a way is opposed to religion in that it encourages an attitude of agency where religions merely promote meek acceptance of one's lot. In magic, it's "My will be done", not "Your will be done"; you could say that practising magic means striving for all the good things one would not be ordinarily entitled to in the normal course of events, be it riches or unmediated contact with the gods. It's systematic presumption, in a way, so it's easy to see why religion could have a restrictive effect on one's magic and could "actively ruin your life" because it not only imposes artifical limitations on your aspirations but also denigrates aspects of your current life. Liberation from those restrictive and limiting aspects of one's childhood religion is part of the path of many of us here follow, and not an easy one.

 

[Jackson]

Those who attain birth on the middle level of the lowest grade are the sentient beings who violate the five precepts, the eight precepts, or the complete precepts of a monk or a nun. A foolish person such as this steals from the sangha, or takes the personal belongings of monks, or preaches the Dharma with impure motives, but feels no remorse. Thus he defiles himself by evil karma and because of this he is liable to fall into hell.

“When he is about to die and the flames of hell suddenly close in on him, he may meet a good teacher, who compassionately explains to him the ten supernal powers of Amitāyus, fully describing the majestic power of the light of that buddha and his virtues in the observance of the precepts, meditation, wisdom, liberation, and knowledge of liberation. When he has heard this, the evil karma that would bind him to birth and death for eighty koṭis of kalpas are extinguished; thus, the fierce flames of hell turn into cool and refreshing breezes, wafting heavenly flowers.

On each flower is a transformed buddha accompanied by bodhisattvas welcoming him. “In an instant, he attains birth within a lotus bud on a seven-jeweled pond. After six kalpas the lotus bud opens, and then Avalokiteśvara and Mahāsthāmaprāpta comfort him with their noble voices and teach him profound Mahayana sutras. Upon hearing these, he immediately awakens aspiration for highest enlightenment.

It does not SOUND like a complicated doctrine.

 

[JGVDRG]

The quote bellow summarizes it beautifully.

In magic, it's "My will be done", not "Your will be done"; you could say that practising magic means striving for all the good things one would not be ordinarily entitled to in the normal course of events, be it riches or unmediated contact with the gods.

I've had very similar problems.
Grew up in a Kardecist household. In a sense, you're indoctrinated to believe not only there's a God up there observing your every move, but also you have your own spititual guides watching you and, in a way, "documenting" merit by merit, mistake by mistake (of course it has a LOT more to it, but to be brief). It's a very merit/debt focused doctrine that generates a creeping paranoic slave mentality. And every good thing you do is sacrificial and for others, NEVER for yourself, autruism and charity are peak models of morality and it's even better if you wreck yourself in the process of doing good. The more I prayed, the more I studied spiritism and made contact with the spirits, the more screwed I was. The poorer I got, the more family problems I witnessed, more conflict, more disgrace, rejection, etc. The ideal spiritist is a martyr and a relentess hard worker.

Eventually I realized it was all a load of bullcrap, of course. But the process of detaching from this mentality is painful, very challenging. I suggest you contemplate life by itself, meditate, do some active imagination and discover your contents and the natural alchemical processes will start to move. Mostly, introspective exercises, ludic experiences. That's what kept me going beyond religious brainwashing (and there's still a ton of work to do, of course). Try to take your own conclusions on life, cosmic justice, good and evil, me versus others, etc. Dare to play a bit with your system of values, shift between poles, try to fathom life's paradoxes and experience them. I'd also suggest some Psychonautic (beware of disguised cults), but I don't know how your mind works. It can be negative depending on your mental state.

Then after some time, you'll probably feel more liberated from these religious mental parasites and more cautious when you face similar traps in your path. Be an individual and seek the best for You. Don't ask others, claim what you want. It may take some anger and frustration to achieve that level of selfishness, but you'll get there if you want to overcome slave hive mind. I believe that effective magick can only take place if you have that level of grasp on what you want, even if it means to kill a God.

 

[KjEno186]

Grew up in a Kardecist household. In a sense, you're indoctrinated to believe not only there's a God up there observing your every move, but also you have your own spititual guides watching you and, in a way, "documenting" merit by merit, mistake by mistake (of course it has a LOT more to it, but to be brief). It's a very merit/debt focused doctrine that generates a creeping paranoic slave mentality. And every good thing you do is sacrificial and for others, NEVER for yourself, autruism and charity are peak models of morality and it's even better if you wreck yourself in the process of doing good.

I grew up in a Jehovah's Witness household. On the surface one could say that JW's promote peace, love, and God's Kingdom ruled by Christ. But it's a lot like what you describe. Instead of contacting 'spirits', however, everything is Jehovah-centric. Of course, "doing what Jehovah commands" is just a subtle way of saying that the members should obey the very-much-human Governing Body. It's just another cult.

Once upon a time I frequented an 'apostate' discussion board for JWs, and it surprised me at the time how many turned back to 'Christendom'. In my mental struggle to get free, I had to disprove the Bible to myself in a purely rationalist manner. There is no doubt that it is not "God's Word" but the words of men.

And now I have moderated my beliefs somewhat, allowing a place for the occult. As you may have noticed, I've read some of Kardec's writings. I've also read a few other spiritist books such as Nosso Lar. On the surface, it looks attractive to me. It is also a further rejection of my JW upbringing which always warned against spiritism and the occult in general as 'tools of the Devil'.

I think [North] American Protestantism is extremely materialistic, even attempting a sort of rationalism which purports to show that the Bible is 'scientific' and thus indisputably true and historically accurate. It isn't, of course, and it does more actual damage to the Bible than they could ever realize. I actually have more respect for the Bible when it is read without cultural baggage and religious dogma in mind, but it takes time for those who have been indoctrinated to reach this point, if they ever do. I would also say that there's probably benefit to reading Kardec without the baggage and dogma that the spiritist movement encapsulates around it.

Be an individual and seek the best for You. Don't ask others, claim what you want. It may take some anger and frustration to achieve that level of selfishness, but you'll get there if you want to overcome slave hive mind. I believe that effective magick can only take place if you have that level of grasp on what you want, even if it means to kill a God.

Amen to that.

 

[Morell]

Hmmh, it's interesting to me that you get manipulated by Spirits of Angels as well ... you don't feel these beings want to help you in anyways?

That's quite interesting to me that beings traditionally seen as benevolent can potentially be malevolent ... helps alot actually.

It's quite complex but yes, even what we might think benevolent, might be quite malevolent. Angles are not known for only doing good, it's interesting programming that people consider them only good despite that they do bad things too. With angels of Christianity, when they are send to you to get you on the Christian path, they might even cause you bad luck or other stuff to show you how bad your path is. Or simply trying to convince you that Christianity is the only truth, they might even think they are doing good, just like human Christians, while it is only making things confusing or bad for you.
I don't have problems with them anymore, thanks to pact with Azrael who keeps them away, great honorable guy. But I definitely had some bad moments.

 

[Ziran]

(pretty much every denomination of Buddhism is similar tbh)

Not that I've seen, friend. They're very different. Compare Zen to Tibetan. At least one major distinction among buddhists: Siddhi or not? Also gods or not?

Post automatically merged: Jul 11, 2024

Angles are not known for only doing good, it's interesting programming that people consider them only good despite that they do bad things too. With angels of Christianity, when they are send to you to get you on the Christian path, they might even cause you bad luck or other stuff to show you how bad your path is.

^^ Playing the blame game is not healthy. The individual is conjuring their own demons. ^^

@HocusPocus , please take note of this. It will greatly aid you in all your endeavors, magical and mundane.

 

[Morell]

^^ Playing the blame game is not healthy. The individual is conjuring their own demons. ^^

Can you elaborate that?

 

[Jackson]

Can you elaborate that?

Associative thinking